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Offline Ice Monkey

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You'd think that a mass of people walking in circles in the desert for several decades would leave a trace of their presence, yet archaeologists haven't uncovered a single manna wrapper.
Religion. It's given people hope in a world torn apart by religion." -- Charlie Chaplin

Offline magicmiles

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Hey Magic.  Two quick questions, if I could.

1) did your acceptance of any of these stories pre-date your acceptance of God?
2) is your present position tentative?

1) Yes. I believed the bible to be true based on the fact it was always taught to me as being true. I didn't accept God personally until I was about 21, and for several years it was a pretty tentative acceptance. I questioned many assumptions I had and much of what I'd been taught. However:

2) No. It's rock solid and my faith in God had grown significantly in recent years.
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Offline Ice Monkey

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1) Yes. I believed the bible to be true based on the fact it was always taught to me as being true. I didn't accept God personally until I was about 21, and for several years it was a pretty tentative acceptance. I questioned many assumptions I had and much of what I'd been taught.

So you believed the bible stories prior to faith in God?  Based upon what, if not faith or evidence?  Was it based upon trust in the authorities telling you the stories?

Quote
2) No. It's rock solid and my faith in God had grown significantly in recent years.

You're not open to new evidence?
Religion. It's given people hope in a world torn apart by religion." -- Charlie Chaplin

Offline magicmiles

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Hi Jeff

If it's OK, once I have replied to this post of yours and also the most recent from PP, I would like to limit my participation in the thread to my 'challenge' with KB.

I appreciate that you'll want to respond to whatever I post right now, as will PP, but I'm happy for you both to have the final word in this thread.

if the mod's feel it's more appropriate for the challenge with KB to be moved to the debate forum I'm happy with that.


Can you envision a single action that God could take that would counter your belief that God is great?

No. I believe God has the absolute right to do with His creation as He pleases. I further believe that He has demonstrated conclusively that He loves His creation more than we could ever love anything. It is our failure to recognise that we are not the kings of this world that causes us to look upon some of God's actions with distaste.


Or are you so brainwashed to think that everything God does is good, that even things like.... oh, I don't know... killing every living thing on the planet, is still evidence that God is great? 

You're brainwashed into believing that nothing is greater than you or mankind or even this planet. You've swallowed the same lie that Adam and Eve swallowed and that all mankind has swallowed ever since. The splendour and majesty of God, His power and His love are plain to see for those who choose to see it, but for those with no desire to submit to God these things are hidden.

It's a massive hurdle to overcome, this idea that we are the be all and end all of the universe. I know it is. But it can be overcome, and you don't need to throw reason out the door to do so. Quite the opposite as far as I'm concerned.


Do you really think that is why some people don't believe in God?  Because they don't want to be accountable? 

Absolutely. That's not to say that you aren't all very sincere in your acceptance of the varioius scientific disciplines which attempt to demostrate the universe either always existed or somehow created itself, but at the heart of every non-christian I know personally ( many ) is a very strong dislike of being told that certain things which they want to do are not acceptable to God. It's absolutely a rebellion against constraint. I read most of the threads on here and have read a lot of older ones. Impartial discussion of the evidence against God is absolutely dwarfed by constant discussion of how you can't stand the son of a bitch.

Sort of PP. There are of course many variables in everybodies exposure to the bible and to the world generally. My brother takes great pleasure in pointing out to me that if I had been born in China chances are i wouldn't be a Christian. And he may well be right....but I don't see how it changes the way i look at things now. I believe God is real, and the fact that others apparently don't has never been compelling to me, although it does sadden me.


That's a very egocentric view of things, magicmiles.  "I believe in my God and it's sad that you don't."  Why does it sadden you?  Are you sad because you like to believe in God and think we are missing out on something?  Or are you sad because you think we will be punished for it?  Either way, don't be.  NOT believing in God is better than believing, and the fact that you think we are deserving of some sort of punishment because we don't believe in the same fairy tale as you is flat out insulting. 

I'm sad because I know that by refusing to be reconciled to God you will indeed suffer the consequenses for that. If I see someone about to be eaten by a shark which they don't happen to see swimming towards them, the tragedy is not lessened by the ignorance of the victim. It would be insulting if I held myself out to be better or more deserving of salvation that anyone else. I don't, because I'm not.


This is exactly the problem with you though, and also an injunction on the entire Christian world view...  There are probably thousands of facts that aren't very compelling to you.  Yet facts are the things by which we usually base our judgment on truth versus untruth, aren't they?  I think that alone is the major difference between the atheist and the theist.  An atheist will look at the fact that there are literally billions of people who believe in thousands of different religions, all professing the same level of confidence in their beliefs, and find that compelling.  That's the sad part.  You live with your eyes closed to the relevancy of facts.

I don't ignore facts, but I do place a greater importance on the reality I experience than on what certain scientific disciplines tell me I should experience. As in, the scientific world will tell me that the world does not have a creator, with the natural consequence of that being I should not experience anything to counter that. But I do. Everything I see about humanity and the world around me screams "God" and when i read the bible I read truth. It's what I experience. It simply isn't possible for me to demostarte such a personal experience, all I can do is convey it in words.


Short list of facts about the NT that you probably don't find compelling...
1.  People don't rise from the dead after 3 days.
2.  People lie sometimes when they write stuff down.
3.  We don't know who actually wrote the gospel accounts.
4.  There is no contemporary evidence that Jesus existed at all.
5.  The 4 (Mat, Mark, Luke, John) stories are very different in the way they portray Jesus.
6.  There is no evidence for any of the miracles Jesus supposedly performed.
7.  We have no original writings of any of the gospel stories.
8.  Dreams and visions are usually considered poor ways of determining the truth about the universe (unless it's in a movie).

You are correct. I don't find them compelling. Christian apologists can defend against those objections better than me. I have no doubt you're familiar with, and reject, those defences.

Jeff, I know I have left a large chunk of your post, but I have to move on to other responses now. I hope you understand and are OK with me possibly taking up some of these things further at a different time and in different threads
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 06:49:52 PM by magicmiles »
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline magicmiles

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So you believed the bible stories prior to faith in God?  Based upon what, if not faith or evidence?  Was it based upon trust in the authorities telling you the stories?


Yes, based on me attending church and sunday school every week all my life. I think even then though I had an inkling I was hearing truth, although mostly in church I counted the minutes before it was over and I could go home.


You're not open to new evidence?


I'm only human. If I found evidence which i considered compelling against God I have no doubt I would act on it. Hasn't happened.

Ice Hockey fan, hey?

I once went to a fight...and a game of ice hockey broke out..

I'm winding down in this thread, I owe a reply to PP and then I will just get on with my challenge with KB. I'm sure we'll talk another time in anothe thread.
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline Ice Monkey

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So you believed the bible stories prior to faith in God?  Based upon what, if not faith or evidence?  Was it based upon trust in the authorities telling you the stories?


Yes, based on me attending church and sunday school every week all my life. I think even then though I had an inkling I was hearing truth, although mostly in church I counted the minutes before it was over and I could go home.


You're not open to new evidence?


I'm only human. If I found evidence which i considered compelling against God I have no doubt I would act on it. Hasn't happened.

Ice Hockey fan, hey?

I once went to a fight...and a game of ice hockey broke out..

I'm winding down in this thread, I owe a reply to PP and then I will just get on with my challenge with KB. I'm sure we'll talk another time in anothe thread.
Heh.  Good one.
Must keep you hopping, being a thoughtful theist.
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Offline HAL

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Everything I see about humanity and the world around me screams "God" and when i read the bible I read truth. It's what I experience. It simply isn't possible for me to demostarte such a personal experience, all I can do is convey it in words.

Allow me to make a point using a modified version of what you said -

Everything I see about humanity and the world around me screams "Allah" and when i read the Koran I read truth. It's what I experience. It simply isn't possible for me to demonstrate such a personal experience, all I can do is convey it in words.

Interesting isn't it?

Offline Quesi

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MM, first of all, I would really like to commend your stamina.  The majority of forum members are coming down really hard on you, and you continue to respond thoroughly and respectfully to your harshest opponents in this discussion.

Your god has a “right” to do with his creations as he chooses?   

I believe God has the absolute right to do with His creation as He pleases. I further believe that He has demonstrated conclusively that He loves His creation more than we could ever love anything.

I guess I just could never reconcile the concept that you present of a loving god who taunts and tortures his “creations” and sets them up to fail and punishes them when they do fail. 

How could you see this as loving? 

Offline magicmiles

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MM, first of all, I would really like to commend your stamina.

Thanks. But it's rapidly being tested... :(

I can't maintain it.
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Offline magicmiles

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To all:

I'm sorry, I really am.

I just have to give this forum a rest, starting now. It's 10.20 am amd I haven't touched my actual work.

PP...your last post was really appreciated, you bring a real clarity of thought to your posts which is impressive. Yes, we disagree, and perhaps we always will. But we are all human living in this world and we should respect each other.

KB..I formally concede defeat in our challenge. I'm sorry I can't follow up on it more.

So you won't see me posting on any topics for some time, not even the trivial ones.

I have to do the smart thing for me and give proper priority to my real life.

Thanks.
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline Quesi

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MM, first of all, I would really like to commend your stamina.

Thanks. But it's rapidly being tested... :(

I can't maintain it.

You're allowed to take a break sometimes and go to the really bad jokes thread or compose some super fast poetry.  Or go spend some time with your wife, who I'm sure is a lot nicer to you than most of us here!

But I know I'd love to hear from you about the loving tormentor.  And HAL wants to hear about Allah.  And as soon as you answer us, someone else will have more questions.

Do the best you can.   

Offline JeffPT

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MM,

You know what?  There is something horribly wrong in everything you wrote back to me.  Every paragraph has glaring problems that should be responded to.  It saddens me, and quite frankly it sickens me NOT to reply to every wrong thing you wrote, but seeing as you will no longer reply, I will drop out of this discussion with you so you can focus on others who've already been engaged with. 

Now, if you'll excuse me;  instead of posting, I'm just going to smash my keyboard and throw my chair against the wall in order to relieve the stress that has been built up by idiocy inherent in your reply. 

Have a nice day.   

/AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline Ivellios

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I guess I just could never reconcile the concept that you present of a loving god who taunts and tortures his “creations” and sets them up to fail and punishes them when they do fail. 

How could you see this as loving?

I agree with you Quesi.

People like this cannot seem to understand why we don't consider 'might makes right' as "loving." Sorry, MM. Just because one may have fathered a child doesn't give them the "god given right to take them back out of this world." Just because Hitler could order the deaths of millions, just because people were willing to obey him upon penalty of death, still did not give him that right. It is neiher "good" or "loving," even If[1] they chose him.

In modern society most of us believe in justice. Where the criminals are punished and we try to not punish the 'not guilty' or the innocent. God on the other hand cares nothing about one's guilt or not, clearly loves collateral damage. Killing 70,000 just because David conducted a census on God's orders. Even in this case David didn't even fail. God punishes just to punish. David at a loss, knows it was wrong of god to punish like that, that he alone should have been punished, and since they were punished that he must have "done it wrong." Either it was god or it was microbes and the census only allowed an outbereak situation to occur. Too bad god was silent in this.

'Might makes right' is a horrible way to rule. It is what determines the 'Alpha-Male' in packs of creatures. By following this philosophy MM, it shows how much you're willing to submit to something you deny, evolution. That we evolved from something primitive, and it's still holding us back.
 1. used this word to specifically point out that people do not vote for a king.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 10:21:41 PM by TruthSeeker »

Offline velkyn

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1) Yes. I believed the bible to be true based on the fact it was always taught to me as being true. I didn't accept God personally until I was about 21, and for several years it was a pretty tentative acceptance. I questioned many assumptions I had and much of what I'd been taught.
my how not suprising.  Someone who believed what he was taught to him by people he trusted.  It’s unfortunate that you are too willfully ignorant to actually consider the facts of the matter, that there is no evidence for the essential events claimed by your bible or to be able to present evidence yourself.  It’s cute to watch MM try to claim others are “brainwashed” but being unable to show one iota of evidence for his god. 

It suprises me not one bit that MM is all about might versus right.  To think yourself special, you have to have some being that is big and powerful and cares only for you.  As long as MM thinks he has the right god and the right way to worship it, he basks in the feeling that he’s “right”. 

Oh and more lies about how atheists just don’t want to be “accountable”.  How cute!  MM just decides he can ignore the fact that atheists are just as law abiding as any theist and are just as charitable as any theist.  Such pathetic lies and hypocrisy.  It’s also nice to see that he’s such a hypocrite to again claim that the sciences are wrong just when its convenient for him to do so.  Just like Santorum, science is just peachy keen if it save the life of a loved one but oooh, when that same scientific method shows that you aren’t so special and your god doesn’t exist, golly it suddenly becomes wrong. 

and now running away when his claims are challenged and he hasn’t yet again provided any evidence for them.  So predictable.  and so sad that this supposedly wonderful god has such inept liars to represent it. 
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Offline Hatter23

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  MM just decides he can ignore the fact that atheists are just as law abiding as any theist and are just as charitable as any theist.

Actually according to some studies,  the atheist is on average more law abiding, but less charitable.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline One Above All

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Actually according to some studies,  the atheist is on average more law abiding, but less charitable.

Most charities are religious. Obviously most atheists won't donate to something that can (and most likely will) be used to "improve" theism.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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Offline Hatter23

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You're brainwashed into believing that nothing is greater than you or mankind or even this planet. You've swallowed the same lie that Adam and Eve swallowed and that all mankind has swallowed ever since. The splendour and majesty of God, His power and His love are plain to see for those who choose to see it, but for those with no desire to submit to God these things are hidden.


Looking at the evidence objectively is being brainwashed? Care to completely redefine and other words into the complete opposite of what they mean?
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline velkyn

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Actually according to some studies,  the atheist is on average more law abiding, but less charitable.

like Lucifer said, we're kind of limited in what we can give to.  I have donated to religious charities in the past since they do occasionally do some good.  I am kinda curious about the studies, would you know any off hand?  I'm going ot see what I can find on the web on my o9wn.

EDIT: atheist donations have been outright refused by soem charitable groups, the American Cancer Society for one.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 08:48:15 AM by velkyn »
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Offline HAL

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You're brainwashed into believing that nothing is greater than you or mankind or even this planet.

Really? Who brainwashed us? I don't have evidence for any entities "greater" than myself so I don't believe they exist. How is that the result of brainwashing? I'm sorry but the opposite is the case. If you believe in things with no rational, testable evidence then you are the one brainwashed and we could even point to who or what did it. The church and it's adherents.

Offline Alzael

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You're brainwashed into believing that nothing is greater than you or mankind or even this planet.

Show me one person here that has said this.

You've swallowed the same lie that Adam and Eve swallowed and that all mankind has swallowed ever since.

Show me where Adam and Eve ever believed this.

The splendour and majesty of God, His power and His love are plain to see for those who choose to see it, but for those with no desire to submit to God these things are hidden.

This is the same as saying that if one already believes god is good, you'll believe that god is good. If god really were good and loving you should not have to start from that premise. The fact that you do have to start from that premise shows the exact opposite. That god isn't good or loving, because you have to convince yourself it's true before you get any evidence of it.

It's a massive hurdle to overcome, this idea that we are the be all and end all of the universe.

Yes, but it's a Christian hurdle. You're the one who is claiming that he is the creation of a great and all-powerful being who loves him. Please don't project your own egotism onto others.

I know it is. But it can be overcome, and you don't need to throw reason out the door to do so. Quite the opposite as far as I'm concerned.

Then why have you completely ignored reason, if you didn't have to? It's been shown over and over again how utterly irrational your beliefs and positions are, how intensely flawed they are. If you really think that you're a rational person then you've clearly completely redefined certain portions of the english language.

I'm sad because I know that by refusing to be reconciled to God you will indeed suffer the consequenses for that. If I see someone about to be eaten by a shark which they don't happen to see swimming towards them, the tragedy is not lessened by the ignorance of the victim. It would be insulting if I held myself out to be better or more deserving of salvation that anyone else. I don't, because I'm not.

Don't be. I would gladly take hell over heaven. Fortunately neither exist, but assuming they did I can't think of anything more hellish than eternal enslavement to the petty and childish, baby-killing monster that you've bound yourself to. What does it say about how truly awful and horrendous your god is that the best you can come up with to defend his actions is "No. I believe God has the absolute right to do with His creation as He pleases."

Unlike you I have no intention of bending on knee before an abomination. Fictional or otherwise.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

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Offline screwtape

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Get this thread cleared up and then talk to one of the global moderators about you ban.

I think the "ban" he is referring to is in kaziglu's challenge, not an actual ban.  He's still here posting, afterall. 

Kaz said he rejects passages of praise for yhwh because those are just PR, afterall.  The point of the challenge was to show how there is 10 times as much scriptural evidence for yhwh's benevolence than there is for his malevolence.  I would agree with kaz on that point, but that is between the two of them.

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Offline screwtape

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MM,

I understand you won't be posting for a while, but I'm going to post a rebuttal in case you have an opportunity to read it.  Respond when you are able, or not at all.  If not at all, I apologize for taking the final word.

Having an understanding of good and evil does not give anyone discernement equal to God's. That was the cunning temptation used by Satan - the suggestion that they could be like God. It's a lie which is pretty easy to swallow still today as it was then.

Actually, that was yhwh's own words. When he found out and had a little panic attack, his words were:
Quote from: gen3:23
And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

There you have it.

Exactly true. No matter who God is, no matter how great, you will stick with what you consider to be true and believe you know better. You beleive in a lie peddled by Satan from the beginning.

eh, no.  You talk about how good and great god is, but you've never met god, you've never seen him, and I sure haven't either.  So all that talk about how god is begs the question - is there even a god in the first place?  I have no reliable evidence of a good god, a bad or any other kind of god.  To talk about me knowing better no matter how god is, well, that's a non-answer. 

And you say what I believe is a lie peddled by satan.  Again, you have no way to know that. You are answering in platitudes of faith, which may mean something to you, but not me. 

As you all are very well aware, God has not shied away in the past from doing this sort of thing in response to His name being defamed.

If I killed even one kid for "defaming" my name, what would you think of me?  If Good (capital G) is Good (capital G) then it is universally applicable. That means it is absolute and has no exceptions. 

So why does god get a different set of standards? 

I'm not saying 'somehow' it must have been good, I'm saying it was completely right for God to act as He did. I don't abdicate using my judgement, I'm humble enough to concede my judegement is often very much clouded.

Oh.  Then I guess I overestimated your morality. Sorry for that.  I thought you saw the viciousness of the bear story and were trying to look away.  Instead, you were actually rooting for the bears all along.  And you have the temerity to say we don't have good morals.  Wow. 

Are you saying, then, that we can judge what is good by whether or not we still exist? Provided a society functions and we continue to reproduce then how can it ever be evil?

No.  I am saying actions that promote the continued existence of our species are in reality what are considered "good".  Driving the speed limit. Taking care of your kids.  Not stealing[1].  Not murdering people[2].  Not cutting in lines.  All the things that allow us to function as a society. 

I think you are trying very hard to not understand my point.



 1. except in the right circumstances, like, if you need food after Hurricane Irene, etc.
 2. except in the right circumstances, like, if someone is trying to kill you
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Offline Quesi

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I wanted to point out that in these times of huge government funding cuts, there are LOTS of marvelous secular charities and causes that could benefit greatly from your support.

Doctors Without Borders does wonderful work.  http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/  They are still in Haiti.  They are working with drought refugees in Africa.  They go where there are cholera outbreaks or natural disasters or even wars and violence destroying the lives and communities. 

I'm a big fan of the Settlement House movement, and I know a great deal about the work of many of the houses. They work with low income children, senior citizens, immigrants and refugees, strengthening families and communities.   If you are interested in a specific issue and want to learn more about specific houses, feel free to contact me in a private message. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_movement

Fair Trade has numerous chapters.  Here is a a couple:  http://www.fairtradeusa.org/ 
http://www.fairtrade.org.uk/

Or donate to your local science museum.  I guarantee you that they have had their budget slashed recently.  If you don't have a local science museum, donate to the Hayden Planetarium, which is overseen by Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and continues to provide admission on a suggested donation basis, ensuring that low income individuals and families can learn about the origins of the universe in one of the world's most sophisticated facilities.  http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/index.php

And this is just off the top of my head with a few googled links.   There is so much good work going on that has nothing to do with religion. 

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I read most of the threads on here and have read a lot of older ones. Impartial discussion of the evidence against God is absolutely dwarfed by constant discussion of how you can't stand the son of a bitch.

Oh, FFS. I was taking you seriously, until you said that.

You have to allow for some satire, dear.

Absolutely nobody rejects a god, because we don't like the God. It does not interest me in the slightest how many babies a god (real or imaginary) kills. I'm sure he would have reasons. The principal motivation is always the bottom line: what do we get out of it?

In order to ascertain that, we first need to know (1) if a god is real, and (2) how you would go about appeasing him. The Christian doctrine offers no clear way of fully appeasing him, and states in Matthew that you have to give up everything, and trust him like birds and lilies do. That's a hell of a price, and no Christian ever does that.

Why not?

The answer is that they are seeking a compromise between what they are prepared to sacrifice, vs the proof that god is real, vs their interpretation of the stated price. It's a multivariate problem. Some Christians can convince themselves that God doesn't require much sacrifice, despite what it actually says in the NT. Some can't, and go into meltdown: thinking they will go to hell anyway.

You could argue that atheists are lazy, and evaluate the multivariate equation by attacking the existence of God part. Once you have sabotaged that, there is little reason to consider the other two variables (how much you are prepared to give + how much is supposedly required).

Because just about all world religions have fanatical ascetics, who bury themselves in dung, chop off their testicles, and fast every day, there is a continual doubt about how much God really requires from us. There is no one source of opinion, in any religion; only ever doubt. Because of this, people then flock to the most authoritative opinion, be it the Catholic church or Bishop Spong, to bail them out of the doubt that we are supposed to chop off our testicles. Cardinal Pell just said on Australian TV, yesterday, that some atheists would go to heaven. That's a great bailout.

Religion quickly reduces to following authoritative sources that bail you out, rather than dwelling in the confusion of trying to work out whether any of it is really true. The reason is that the truth can never be ascertained, despite what you claim. You claim to see the love of God everywhere. Pfftt. You are just as likely to become an atheist next week, or suddenly become racked in doubt.

And you wont become an atheist because you weren't prepared to give your testicles. It will just be because something falls flat for some reason; you eventually see the dishonesty in the Christian religion when you study the nitty gritty of it.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Anfauglir

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I believe God has the absolute right to do with His creation as He pleases.

I kn ow MM won't be back to respond, but I wanted to make this one point.

The whole sin-salvation storyline is based on the fact that god gave his creation the ability and freedom to choose.  But to do that he HAD to relinquish control over his creation....which thereafter negates ANY claim to be able to "do what he wants" with it.

Unfortunately, you simply can't have it both ways.  Can't say "its all up to you", and at the same time "it's all up to me".  Either god relinquished his "right" to do what he wants when he gave us free will and the right to choose, or he retains overall control and thus retains the blame and responsibility for whatever we do.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline velkyn

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so, MM isn’t going to return?  that’s not surprising at all. I’ll bet 20 quatloos that he’s bck in a few months with the same nonsense, sure that "this time" they'll work.   
It's a massive hurdle to overcome, this idea that we are the be all and end all of the universe. I know it is. But it can be overcome, and you don't need to throw reason out the door to do so. Quite the opposite as far as I'm concerned.
and all theists claim this too, that their particular god has special purpose for them.  So again nothing special about your religion or anything that supports its validity. 
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It's absolutely a rebellion against constraint. I read most of the threads on here and have read a lot of older ones. Impartial discussion of the evidence against God is absolutely dwarfed by constant discussion of how you can't stand the son of a bitch.
and such pathetic and inept lies about atheists and this forum. how sad.  Again we see a Christian decide that they can make such claims but of course not support them, and of course try to claim that only those who agree with him are the only ones who are truly “impartial”. 
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I'm sad because I know that by refusing to be reconciled to God you will indeed suffer the consequenses for that.
No, MM doesn’t know this at all.  He sure does hope it’s true though because eternal torture for anyone who disagrees with him is his fantasy.  He needs people to be punished for such a thing.
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You are correct. I don't find them compelling. Christian apologists can defend against those objections better than me. I have no doubt you're familiar with, and reject, those defences.
No, no they really can’t defend against those objections at all.  They can’t explain on why there is no evidence for any of the essential events of the bible.  It all comes down to them ignoreing the arguments against them, just like MM has done.   
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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