NOM and their attempts to stop gay marriage by all sorts of ugliness

[velkyn]

The National Organization for Marriage, that lovely group that has gone against Prop 8 with Mormon money, and golly such a good bunch of Christians, is now revealed as even more ignorant and bigotted.  The Human Rights Campaign got their documents: http://www.hrc.org/nomexposed/entry/must-read  and it's quite a read about how the NOM wants to manipulate African-Americans, Hispanics, etc to do their dirty work for them. 

a good blog about the issue: http://zinniajones.com/blog/2012/03/secret-nom-documents-reveal-disgraceful-racist-anti-family-strategy/

and Pharyngula has a great observation: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/03/29/i-have-a-new-favorite-insult/

That isn’t funny. Their methods aren’t funny, either: they have lots of money, and they’re throwing it into hate-mongering ads, just like the Mormon church did with Proposition 8. But one of their proposed tactics did tickle my warped sense of humor:

"Hollywood with its cultural biases is far bigger than we can hope to be. We recognize this. But we also recognize the opportunity – the disproportionate potential impact of proactively seeking to gather and connect a community of artists, athletes, writers, beauty queens and other glamorous non-cognitive elites across national boundaries."
Yeah, they’re going to recruit famous dumbasses who can fall for their lies and toxic message…

Non-cognitive?  Really???   

[MonicaLynn]

Mormons are not Christians. They follow a text that was interpreted by their founder to be the "book of Abraham" tht was found and later translated by scholars to be a pagan Egyptian funeral text. Also, this "enlightened interpretation" viewed dark skin as a curse, but they swept that under the rug when the text was interpreted by all of a sudden allowing blacks in their church. Funny though, they never denounced the text and still follow it. Probably why they are using these darker skinned races now for their dirty work.

[velkyn]

Mormons are not Christians. They follow a text that was interpreted by their founder to be the "book of Abraham" tht was found and later translated by scholars to be a pagan Egyptian funeral text. Also, this "enlightened interpretation" viewed dark skin as a curse, but they swept that under the rug when the text was interpreted by all of a sudden allowing blacks in their church. Funny though, they never denounced the text and still follow it. Probably why they are using these darker skinned races now for their dirty work.

Monica, I want you to show me exactly what True Christians are.  Becuase I don't see you making with the miracles that your supposed savior said that any follower of his could do. I was a Christian in the Presbyterian sect once, Monica, and I know the little tricks of how sects try to claim that their version is the only "right" one. 

All theists interpret some primtive old book or set of books and declare it to be from their god.  And none of you have any evidence this is the case.  I'm familiar with many religions including the many many sects of Christianity.  And those sects, Monica were,can be and are just as ignorant and racist as the LDS used to be.  Your NT and OT advocate slavery.  And I don't see anyone denouncing those texts. 

and what "dirty work" would this be, Monica? 

[MonicaLynn]

I understand. I believe that Jesus denounced the inappropriate parts of he OT with his words and example of living. I try to do nothing that is not in love and grace. To me, that is God. I don't believe any sect is all right. Jesus didn't even go to church but to preach. I just go to find the few that understand these things as well. Hard to find at times, but they are out there.

[One Above All]

I understand. I believe that Jesus denounced the inappropriate parts of he OT with his words and example of living.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Are you trying to say that YOU know better than YHWH, LORD of all creation? Who are YOU to question what YHWH told us to do?
On a more serious note, you should glance at the Bible some time. Like that part where Jesus says he's not here to abolish the OT, or the other part where he says we should kill pretty much everyone.

[MonicaLynn]

Abolish and denounce parts are two very different things. It was or reformation that he came. And he didnt kill anyone

That's like saying people really eat babies that joked about it on this site. Mus we be so literal?

[One Above All]

You should really read the Bible you claim to believe in; right now you're lying, willfully or otherwise.

[velkyn]

I understand. I believe that Jesus denounced the inappropriate parts of he OT with his words and example of living. I try to do nothing that is not in love and grace. To me, that is God. I don't believe any sect is all right. Jesus didn't even go to church but to preach. I just go to find the few that understand these things as well. Hard to find at times, but they are out there.

Denounced?  Do you know what that means?  There is no evidence of this in your bible.  And your supposed savior never said that the OT was wrong or that its laws were wrong.  Monica, have yuo read your bible?  Many of us here have and we know it well.  We know you are wrong. 

You have done what is called SPAG, self-projection as god.  You have created a religion for yourself, ignoring the parts that you find bad and accepting the parts that you find good.  It is you who decides what "love and grace" supposed "really" mean and you have made up a magical invisible friend that agrees with you and only you.  Every theist does this, from the Westboro Baptist Church, to liberal Christians, to Muslims, to Wiccans.   You go to the churchs that agree with *you*. 

You complain about things being taken as literal when they are inconvenient for you.  So, can I say that the resurrection of Jesus was simply a metaphorical story?  That Adam and Eve were just a story to try to describe how we got here?  That there was no exodus but only a story to make the Jewish people feel good?  Can you tell me why or why not?

As for JC not killing anyone, not in the bible's story, no he didn't.  We can find no evidence that your god/JC has done *anything* at all, Monica.  No evidence supports the stories. 

[MonicaLynn]

It is nice that you know your bibles so well. Tell me why I am wrong when I use it for love and you use it as a weapon? It is not what we know, but who we are that God judges. I will not be damned for being willing o believe that God will save all good people.

[One Above All]

Why do you insist on these red herrings? Why not simply admit you were wrong? Is it really that difficult for you to have one ounce of intellectual honesty?

[MonicaLynn]

Why is it intellectually dishonest to hope for a God who loves all people? If there were suh a thing, that is how it should be, should it not?

[velkyn]

You are a hypocrite, Monica.  You cherry pick your bible and declare that only the parts that Monica likes are what God "really" meant.  Just like every other theist. I use the bible to show theists like you how willfully ignorant they are about their own supposed "book from God".  I use it to show that their religion is nothign special and is quite like others. It is indeed a good weapon to show people that their claims are wrong.  You may use it "for love", but it's not required for love.  I have a lot of love too.  I have a great marriage, I give to charities, etc.  You would never know I was an atheist if you were analyzing my love. 

Incidentally, you may be damned already, Monica.  You have no idea what your god really wants or if yoru god is the right one to worship.  You should look up Pascal's Wager^Wiki And as for your claim that your god will "save all good people".  Well, that depends on how you define "good".  Is one required to worship your god to be good?  I'd like an answer.

[One Above All]

And now we have lies.
You're being dishonest because rather than simply admitting you were wrong, you tried to dodge the issue with an irrelevant question.

[Alzael]

It is nice that you know your bibles so well. Tell me why I am wrong when I use it for love and you use it as a weapon? It is not what we know, but who we are that God judges. I will not be damned for being willing o believe that God will save all good people.

You miss the point. Because there is no evidence to support anything the bible says, it can be equally used for love or as a weapon. That's why the mentality of religion is dangerous and evil.

Without evidence there is no way to truly tell right from wrong or fantasy from reality. You can say that god is love all you want, but without evidence it's just as right to say that god is hate. Or that god is cheese. This is why your premises are not wrong. Because if one accepts that it's all right to base their view on reality on their special little feelings, it applies to others as well.

Why can't Al Quaeda justify killing non-Muslims just by saying "We believe it's what god wants." Why can't Charles Manson justify his actions by saying "I believe a song written by the Beattles made me do it." That is the implication of what you are trying to put forward. That it is ok to believe in anything you want, and act on those beliefs, without any evidence or reason needed other than your belief.

At that point the very notion of reality is essentially meaningless.

[Omen]

Why is it intellectually dishonest to hope for a God who loves all people? If there were suh a thing, that is how it should be, should it not?

You are intentionally avoiding the post by goal shifting and equivocating.

The bible does not describe a god that loves everyone.  It's 'love' has more in common with the symptomatic negative attention of an abusive parent, a sociopath acting without remorse and in the complete absence of human empathy as it blames the victim for the abuse it brings upon it.  However, whether or not the god of the bible is loving is irrelevant to whether or not it exists.

[Alzael]

Why is it intellectually dishonest to hope for a God who loves all people? If there were suh a thing, that is how it should be, should it not?

To hope for isn't. To act as though there is (without any evidence to support such a thing), is extremely dishonest. Because you don't know. So you are trying to misrepresent reality.

[Omen]

Mormons are not Christians. They follow a text that was interpreted by their founder to be the "book of Abraham" tht was found and later translated by scholars to be a pagan Egyptian funeral text. Also, this "enlightened interpretation" viewed dark skin as a curse

The Mark of Cain being used to explain black skin was predominate in most of Christian denominations all the way up to the 20th century.  The only thing that changed was increased education and the advent of evolution.

but they swept that under the rug when the text was interpreted by all of a sudden allowing blacks in their church. Funny though, they never denounced the text and still follow it. Probably why they are using these darker skinned races now for their dirty work.

Whether or not it is swept under the rug is irrelevant, you engage in the same level intellectual dishonesty and christianity is built upon such dishonest arbitrary theological rationales ( such as the fact that jesus doesn't fulfill messianic prophecy and that is swept under the rug of the second coming ).

[MonicaLynn]

You guys are rough. if you ask that I disown the bible because of my belief that god saves all good people it is irrelevant to me. God does not reside in a man made thing, much less the bible. It is a man made book that has instructions from god. Those instructions have changed over time, for the times.

If you are living lovingly, you are being Jesus to people. The God you don't believe in is still living through you. Labels are irrelevant as well. I could spend my entire life trying to learn everything, or I can enjoy it, learning the things that are applicable to my life and helping others and let god handle the rest.

[One Above All]

If you are living lovingly, you are being Jesus to people.

I assume that's not the biblical Jesus. That guy told everyone to kill each other.

[Omen]

You guys are rough. if you ask that I disown the bible because of my belief that god saves all good people it is irrelevant to me. God does not reside in a man made thing, much less the bible. It is a man made book that has instructions from god. Those instructions have changed over time, for the times.

An omnipotent and omniscient being couldn't do any better?

If you are living lovingly, you are being Jesus to people.

Which has nothing to do with anything jesus espoused.  Luke 19:27, jesus specifically defined the value of those who do not believe as being the equivalent to having an unfaithful servant brought before him and put to the sword.  The parable is delivered to be about people who do not believe, jews in this case, and their non-belief in jesus is promoted as actively persecuting jesus through various christian apologetic commentaries.

NO WHERE DOES JESUS ADVOCATE LOVING EVERYONE.  Loving your neighbor means loving your fellow believer; neighbor, brother, and sister have ALWAYS been a reference to those fellow people who believe as you do and no where in the bible does it present a case that contradicts that.  Loving your enemy is juxtaposed against the various self reinforcing scripture that insists your enemy is going to burn in hell.  Anyone who is not your neighbor, brother, and sister ( ie fellow believer ).. IS your enemy by default of not believing the same thing as you do at face value.

The God you don't believe in is still living through you. Labels are irrelevant as well. I could spend my entire life trying to learn everything, or I can enjoy it, learning the things that are applicable to my life and helping others and let god handle the rest.

A christian who claims that gays are evil or blacks are the product of the mark of cain can say the exact same thing.  Their attitude and behavior is fueled by as much ignorance and stupidity as your own.

[MonicaLynn]

I don't believe those things and I not think God believes those things.

If you use coal to fuel your house, and another uses it to burn Jews, does that mean coal is bad?

[Azdgari]

I don't believe those things and I not think God believes those things.

You would know.  You are God.

[Omen]

I don't believe those things and I not think God believes those things.

If you use coal to fuel your house, and another uses it to burn Jews, does that mean coal is bad?

What does that have to do with the price of tea in china?

[One Above All]

I don't believe those things and I not think God believes those things.

Tell me, does your god have a name? Or are you another christian who worships a god named "god" of their own creation? It sure sounds like the latter. No god that's currently being worshiped is loving.

[Alzael]

I don't believe those things and I not think God believes those things.

Which doesn't respond to the point raised. Other people do think those things. And they are just as right as you are. By trying to claim that you should be taken seriously you're also saying that they should be taken seriously

Why should any of you be taken seriously?

If you use coal to fuel your house, and another uses it to burn Jews, does that mean coal is bad?

Not a proper analogy.

[velkyn]

You guys are rough. if you ask that I disown the bible because of my belief that god saves all good people it is irrelevant to me. God does not reside in a man made thing, much less the bible. It is a man made book that has instructions from god. Those instructions have changed over time, for the times.

  Monica,  you are on a discussion forum, not a place where you can make pretend you have friends and pontificate from your soap box at them.  You were asked what good meant to you. it's up to you to respond with an answer to my questions or say you don't have an answer.  Trying to ignore them jsut makes you like like a dishonorable person who has no answers at all.

Answer these: You complain about things being taken as literal when they are inconvenient for you.  So, can I say that the resurrection of Jesus was simply a metaphorical story?  That Adam and Eve were just a story to try to describe how we got here?  That there was no exodus but only a story to make the Jewish people feel good?  Can you tell me why or why not?

You try to claim that your god gave instructions for a certain time, but again, we have no evidence of this, nor any evidence of your god changing those rules. Each theist claims that they know what their god "really means" but none of you can show you are wright. 

If you are living lovingly, you are being Jesus to people. The God you don't believe in is still living through you. Labels are irrelevant as well. I could spend my entire life trying to learn everything, or I can enjoy it, learning the things that are applicable to my life and helping others and let god handle the rest.

  What does "living lovingly" mean, Monica?  I've seen these vague claims before and again, nothign to show me that your religion is anything special.  YOu make wild-ass claims that this god is some how magically "living through" me.  Show me that's true, Monica and not some lie that Christians repeatedly tell to try to claim any beneficial action for their god, an attempt to claim people for their "team".

I expect you to learn about the things you claim, Monica.  Keeping yourself willfully ignorant helps no one, especially you.   Your god handles nothing, and you need to realize that.  You claiming that is just the usual Christian shirking responsiblity so you don't have to worry about doing something for real in a real world with real problems.

[MonicaLynn]

Well, sometimes I call him God. Sometimes I as Lord, some times I say dad. Sometimes I say Big Guy.

He answers just the same. Through his word or action in my life.

[Omen]

Well, sometimes I call him God. Sometimes I as Lord, some times I say dad. Sometimes I say Big Guy.

He answers just the same. Through his word or action in my life.

And you can tell this from being delusional how?

[One Above All]

Well, sometimes I call him God. Sometimes I as Lord, some times I say dad. Sometimes I say Big Guy.

So, in short, it's not the god of the Bible.
Why do you claim that it's explained in the bible if your god is not the god described in the Bible? Why do you lie, MonicaLynn?