Author Topic: Kymer the punching bag  (Read 3967 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline HAL

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5012
  • Darwins +98/-17
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2012, 07:08:28 PM »
Sorry, what does "brah" mean?

You mean you never listened to the Beatles OB-LA-DI, OB-LA-DA?
Quote
Desmond has his barrow in the market place...
Molly is the singer in a band...
Desmond says to Molly "Girl, I like your face"
And Molly says this as she takes him by the hand...
Ob-la-di, ob-la-da, life goes on, brah!...
Lala how the life goes on...
Ob-la-di, ob-la-da, life goes on, brah!...
Lala how the life goes on.

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2012, 07:09:41 PM »
Ok, I do know what brah means.

Offline Seppuku

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3855
  • Darwins +125/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • I am gay for Fred Phelps
    • Seppuku Arts
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2012, 07:24:12 PM »
Bro/brother I think.
“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto Musashi
Warning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

Offline MadBunny

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3561
  • Darwins +110/-0
  • Fallen Illuminatus
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2012, 08:01:38 PM »
Look at my darwins. That's all that needs to be said. Just look. I'm saying this especially to the moderators.

What are you expecting to happen as a result of this thread?
Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Online kin hell

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5379
  • Darwins +152/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • - .... . .-. . /.. ... / -. --- / --. --- -.. ...
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2012, 10:42:03 PM »
I have not -ve darwined you, but I can see why you have attracted the -ve attention.

Somehow it would be great to get through to you (in such a way that you didn't just deflect) the idea, that when numerous people react to you negatively, and you are the only common denominator, then you might just be the problem, not them.

Of course it is much easier to convince yourself that you are the target of either a conspiracy (hard to imagine what the motive would be) or you've unwittingly upset a "gang"  (there is a classic comment going around the webs, something about herding cats being easier than getting atheists to agree on anything outside of the "atheist" definition), or you are being unjustly persecuted by some forum members.

Interesting isn't it, that all those abnegations of responsibility, require "numbers" of people doing bad things, where if you could just man the fuck up for a moment, you'd realise that if you acknowledged that there may have been just cause for most if not all your -ve darwins, then you simplified the requirements down to just one person fucking up.  You. The lowest common denominator.

I will just add, the whining denial of responsibility inherent in this OP was almost enough for me to -ve Darwin you, but I didn't, because I hope you'll still get past this bullshit and prove to be a worthwhile member of this forum.

I respectfully suggest that you go back to a few of the posts for which you've been -ve'd (post ER), and deal with them properly.

"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline RNS

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 516
  • Darwins +12/-1
  • Diplomat
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2012, 07:19:53 AM »
Like suppuku, I don't dislike you, but I can see where others are coming from and at times I find you somewhat irritating.
[joke] Now I simply resent you for already having more +ve karma than me after being here for such a short time. [/joke]

Seriously though, take the time to think about and address what is being said, because these people are taking the time out of their lives specifically for your benefit. If you do not value this, then I don't see why you would value anything else they have to say- if this is the case then I haven't a clue what you're doing here at all.

Personally I'd like to see you stay, because I feel like both you and the community will have failed if you just leave. Unless you don't want to partake, which would be a whole different story altogether.


love and truth and love of truth

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2012, 07:32:33 AM »
RNS...

You say that they're taking time out of their lives for my benefit. I would suggest that they just ignore me. Otherwise they will always remain in a state of irritation and disappointment when I don't say what they want me to say. In other words they should do what they are telling me to do, which is to take responsibility. If I am not what they want me to be, and they aren't succeeding in getting me to say or be what they want, they should use common sense and quit. I'm not one to throw quotes around but I think it was Einstein who said words to the effect that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Offline RNS

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 516
  • Darwins +12/-1
  • Diplomat
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2012, 08:11:52 AM »
Well, I can see where you are coming from, in that it's not pleasant to do things others have told you to do.
I used to feel that way about my parents until I realised that I wasn't as smart as I thought I was, that a life's worth of experience actually teaches you a helluva lot, and that they probably do know what is best for me.

From what you've said I gather you aren't interested in any self-reflection/introspection or changing in anyway. Why? Don't you want to grow (as a person)? Don't you want to evolve (as a pokemon)? You just want to sit still and stagnate? Do you not have anything to learn?
Furthermore, you have implied that you don't care what these people think. If this is the case, then why are you here? Some of the members who have beef with you are well respected members. Not because they have been here the longest or the most people like them, but because they have valuable things to say.
love and truth and love of truth

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2012, 08:18:41 AM »
RNS...

I totally agree with you in that it's always best to learn and progress. However I don't feel that I should become undiplomatic with theists. That would be a step back, not a step forward. I don't care what theists believe in the sense that it doesn't personally bother me. If I hear a theist say something that I strongly disagree with, I may or may not respond, but I will certainly not feel an uncontrollable need to attack them (or, as some do, attack them by proxy through their arguments, which is really just an attempt to attack the person). If I did feel an uncontrollable need to attack them, that too would be a step back, not a step forward. So yes, I totally agree with you. It's about growing, and about experiencing, and in my experience, diplomacy is the best way.

Offline RNS

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 516
  • Darwins +12/-1
  • Diplomat
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2012, 08:30:52 AM »
wait, hold on... i thought we were talking about something else.
I thought this was about the relationship between you and the forum and your conduct/manner on the forum. When did difference in opinions on interactions with theists come into it? :s
love and truth and love of truth

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2012, 08:33:47 AM »
Well, RNS, everything seems to turn into a discussion about the relationship between me and most of the rest of the forum. I only need to post, anywhere, for that to happen. A couple of people here have a mega grudge against me. Even when it comes down to something as basic as being diplomatic with theists, but that's another topic. I mentioned it as an example.

Offline RNS

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 516
  • Darwins +12/-1
  • Diplomat
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2012, 08:46:09 AM »
I see. Well... this thread, specifically, was started by you and is about you, specifically, and interactions with other forum members. You just mentioned again that something is not going quite right. So, considering that, back on topic:

Quote
they will always remain in a state of irritation and disappointment when I don't say what they want me to say
Do you think they want you to agree with them, or do you think it's something else, such as the way you are presenting your opinions? I've not been watching over much lately because I've been busy, but I have picked up that some are annoyed that you are saying stuff without backing it up. As I just said, I don't know whether this is the case or not, but it may be something worth addressing. That way it may not feel like people "have a mega grudge against [you]".

Quote
In other words they should do what they are telling me to do, which is to take responsibility.
What do you think this is referring to? Take responsibility for what?

Quote
they should use common sense and quit
Again, this makes me wonder what you want to get out of this experience. If you do not wish to take into consideration what they have to say, you are essentially saying you are not particularly interested in interaction with these people. So... erm... I don't even know what to say now...

Bear in mind that once someone has vocalised a thought or opinion about something, or given you a negative karma for example, others will not feel the need to repeat the same action/lesson. So what I'm saying is, that this animosity may not be limited to just the few you probably have in mind.
SO... you are on a forum, but don't want to listen to what the people on that particular forum have to say. YOU ARE CONFUSING ME!!!
love and truth and love of truth

Offline Traveler

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2056
  • Darwins +142/-2
  • Gender: Female
  • no god required
    • I am a Forum Guide
    • Gryffin Designs
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2012, 08:49:18 AM »
...they will always remain in a state of irritation and disappointment when I don't say what they want me to say ... If I am not what they want me to be, and they aren't succeeding in getting me to say or be what they want, they should use common sense and quit...

Just so we're clear. No one is dictating what your opinions should be. What people want is for you to be honest about your opinions, to state them in as clear a manner as you can, and that when people ask you questions, or ask for clarification, that you actually answer them.

That's a far cry from telling you what to be or what to say. I hope you can see the difference.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2012, 09:02:57 AM »
RNS...

You seem very sensible to me. I don't think it would ever be necessary for me to try and convince you that diplomacy is a very useful tool in a discussion, and I can tell by the nature of your posts to me that you get it. Your tone, the way you say what you say, tells me that you get it. I don't think it's even necessary to break down every little thing you say and analyse it and demonstrate how it's diplomatic, because as humans we are capable of grasping a lot of things almost instantly. No explanation needed. It's just there, you either get it or you miss it. If you look at an engine and see it working, is it necessary to break it down and explain every little component to prove why it's working? No, you can just tell by the noise it makes, and the fact that the car moves. That's all you need to know. You don't need to analyse every brushstroke in a painting to determine whether it's good or bad. It's what it is and it's obvious.

With that in mind, what I am effectively being asked to demonstrate is the nature of something which we should all be capable of understanding already. I'm being asked to quote what people have said and demonstrate that it's undiplomatic. I'm sure you know as well as I do that it's easy to tell when someone is being diplomatic, or when they're not. You just see it. It stares out at you from the page. It's obvious. I don't know if there's a term for this but have you ever been in a discussion where the other person asks you to go into detail about something which should already be obvious to them? Do you not feel that they're wasting your time? Do you not feel that all they're actually trying to do is get you to say stuff so that they can then turn everything on its head and further demonstrate their lack of understanding which was already evident in the first place? The evidence that some people here are very undiplomatic is there to see. You've hardly said much to me and I can already tell that you're diplomatic. You know it and I know it. I just don't like playing games with people who merely want excuses to twist the truth. Those who are undiplomatic know it. They know. And they can't stand the fact that I'm calling them on it. I'm not here to say "look, here's how you're being undiplomatic, go ahead and twist everything and waste my time and have a good old chuckle with your buddies", no, I'm here to say "I know your game".

Again, I'm using that topic as an example.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 09:07:53 AM by kymer »

Offline HAL

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5012
  • Darwins +98/-17
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2012, 09:09:41 AM »
I'm being asked to quote what people have said and demonstrate that it's undiplomatic.

Uh, no ... that's not what I'm asking you to do. I'm asking you to engage a member like ILOVEYOU in a thread, just you and him (or her) and talk with him in the manner you are telling us to use. Show us how The One would do it. Put out. I can arrange the thread for the two of you. Don't twist the issue around Kymer.

Now can you put out or not?

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2012, 09:11:56 AM »
I'll do it. Go ahead and start a thread for me and ILY. Can you arrange so that only we (and you and the mods) can post in it? It's just that I wouldn't want there to be any silly distractions getting in the way.

But I'd like to know why you want to do this. What are your reasons?



(By the way, you know what putting out means, don't you? I do like you, but let's take it slow).

Offline HAL

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5012
  • Darwins +98/-17
  • Gender: Male
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2012, 09:19:53 AM »
I'll do it. Go ahead and start a thread for me and ILY. Can you arrange so that only we (and you and the mods) can post in it? It's just that I wouldn't want there to be any silly distractions getting in the way.

I have to go out for a bit but I will make a thread in the debate area today, and just you two will have a talk. I don't expect a debate per se, but that's the area we have available, so we'll use it.

Quote
But I'd like to know why you want to do this. What are your reasons?

Isn't it clear? You are The One, the atheist who shall show all of us here how to diplomatically engage a theist such as ILOVEYOU. We're going to find out what a conversation between you and ILOVEYOU would look like, based on your "diplomacy". When ILOVEYOU asserts their religious claims, we'll observe the proper diplomatic reaction from you - The One.

I will return and set it up, but I have no idea if ILOVEYOU will agree. Feel free to PM ILOVEYOU and inform them of this event.

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2012, 09:22:26 AM »
Do you not believe that diplomacy works? Do you think it's going to be a failure?

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10953
  • Darwins +284/-37
  • Gender: Male
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2012, 09:27:29 AM »
Do you not believe that diplomacy works? Do you think it's going to be a failure?

Diplomacy is always the first approach, unless the theist comes in here exposing their intellectual dishonesty. I dare you to find a single theist who wasn't greeted in such a manner.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10953
  • Darwins +284/-37
  • Gender: Male
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2012, 09:35:11 AM »
Notice

Enter these threads at your own risk. Do not read or participate in these threads if you dislike harsh language and/or insults. Do not quote posts from this area in the regular forum, or use in signatures. Everything said in this area is to remain here. If you don't feel you can contain your emotions about the topic being discussed or your comments about it to this area, do not participate.


HAL, I have a question about this: assuming the signature was added before the thread was moved into The Bottomless Pit, would the user have to remove it anyway?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline RNS

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 516
  • Darwins +12/-1
  • Diplomat
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2012, 09:37:24 AM »
Yes, I am diplomatic. It even says "Diplomat" under my username! Did that give me away? =p

I use this style on purpose since, from experience, I have found that this yields the best results. Being diplomatic = being empathetic. If you truly care about what someone else has to say and try to understand why they say the things they say or think the things they think, then you will have the best lines of communication open, and thus the opportunity to learn more. Not only does it allow one to analyze the thought processes of other humans, but more importantly it also gives you a chance to help them analyze those things.

Although it comes naturally most of the time, there are times when I really have to make an effort to be diplomatic. Any time I think I could not get results being by being diplomatic, I choose not to reply. What helps me take this option (of not replying) is I know that others here will give that kick up the backside that is quite often more than deserved. In a sense, others are taking the hit by looking like 'the bad guy' when they are actually 'the hero'. It's almost like a good cop / bad cop routine  :police:
Also, there are times when diplomacy simply won't work. In these situations, I feel ridicule is not only justified, but necessary- not to help that person (who is beyond help- as these are the people who will not listen to any reason), but to set an example for others. These types of people do exist, and there is no shortage of these imbeciles.

If some of the other members weren't here, I would probably have a different tact, to cover all bases. Not everyone is the same, nor should they be. What has diplomacy got to do with it? Yes, sometimes it's frustrating when a theist is scared off when I think there is possibly potential to make a difference, but why should I expect others to conform to my style? Especially when I know a lot of the time that their style has a beneficial effect, in ways mine doesn't and possibly wouldn't be able to do as effectively if I changed it.

Yes, diplomacy is like an engine. We see it working and we know it works. But like an engine, we can break it down and understand it, down to every little detail. [Side Note- This can actually be a useful tool in life when two differently constructed (in terms of words and intonation and body language) sentences with the same meaning can yield two different results]. So we have established that it is indeed possible to do so.
Wait... are you referring to that other thread again which I haven't read? Or are you saying that people are being undiplomatic and you want it to stop?


EDIT: just because an approach works for someone, doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 09:39:48 AM by RNS »
love and truth and love of truth

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2012, 10:05:33 AM »
Yes RNS I'm just using the other thread as an example of what I have been asked to do. This was in response to something you said a couple of posts ago about conduct. And yes I'm saying that certain members are not very diplomatic. It would be nice if it stopped, yes, but as you say some are beyond help. It's a real shame but that's just the way it is. I don't expect to change anyone's mind but simply to point out what tends to go on here.

By the way let's not forget that just because someone is outnumbered, that it means they're wrong. It is perfectly possible (and it does happen) for a forum or any environment to attract a certain personality type or temperament type. Those who don't fit in eventually leave, and those who do remain, creating a group concensus, and thus giving the impression (or trying to) that what the group says is the way it is. And let's not disregard the fact that some people have decided to not come here much these days for the very reasons I've talked about. And guess what, they got a battering for expressing their views. All groups have their norms. Just go to a christian forum and it will take almost no time to realise that you're in a diffreent world, with different norms, expectations, trends, conduct, perceptions and so on. This manifests itself partly (but not exclusively) in the official rules of a forum. It even applies to forums about, I dunno, trainspotting. The power of the group is very strong. So when someone tells me that the fact that I'm outnumbered is a sign that I'm in the wrong, I take that argument with a pinch of salt. If you went into a kingdom hall and had discussions with the JWs there, would you think "I must be wrong, since all these people are totally in disagreement with me"? I'm sure you wouldn't. Because you have your own convictions.

I've been treated appallingly here, and in a way it's a good lesson for me in staying firm in my realisation that it's just groupthink. That's not to say that there aren't individuals who are less than savoury but this is an environment that currently consists of a lot of people with the same mindset. It's a club and I ain't in it. If I left there would be a party. But I always try to see the positive in every situation. It's quite an art. For example, when I first moved out of my parents house, I thought, oh shit, I've got to do all the chores from now on. Then I turned it around and said, oh great, I'm now going to learn (because I have no choice) to be independent. To me life is a series of lessons, and sometimes the lesson is to realise how well you're already doing so that you can move up a step. I think I'm doing great. Although I'm not completely immune to getting annoyed I actually consider it an honour that there is such a vast chasm between the way I see things and the way certain members see things. It's good to see such a stark contrast, which leaves me in little doubt that I'm doing well.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 10:07:23 AM by kymer »

Offline Omen

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5955
  • Darwins +105/-15
  • One of the fucking bad guys; not friendly, tiger!
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2012, 10:14:24 AM »
but simply to point out what tends to go on here.

Please cite a post where you've quoted anything or anyone, through example of what you claim about the community.

Quote
By the way let's not forget that just because someone is outnumbered, that it means they're wrong.

Who is arguing this?

Quote
And let's not disregard the fact that some people have decided to not come here much these days for the very reasons I've talked about. And guess what, they got a battering for expressing their views.

And when asked to give an example of what they are complaining about, they refuse; why is that?

Quote
So when someone tells me that the fact that I'm outnumbered is a sign that I'm in the wrong

Where has anyone made this argument?


Quote
I've been treated appallingly here

You've been 'smited' for not answering questions and making claims without evidence.  You were given every opportunity to answer those questions and provide that evidence.  No one has insulted you without you insulting them.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Online Dante

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2191
  • Darwins +72/-9
  • Gender: Male
  • Hedonist Extraordinaire
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2012, 04:36:35 PM »
I think I'm doing great.

At what?

Quote
  which leaves me in little doubt that I'm doing well.

Doing well at what?

I've asked you repeatedly, as have others, in other threads, why you're HERE at WWGHA specifically, and not some other forum? What do you hope to accomplish here?
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2012, 05:44:17 PM »
I think I'm going well in general. It was just a general comment, that's all. Why do you insist on asking me why I'm here?

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10953
  • Darwins +284/-37
  • Gender: Male
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2012, 05:46:42 PM »
Why do you insist on asking me why I'm here?

Dunno. Why do you insist on dodging every question?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2012, 05:51:24 PM »
What is this, the spanish inquisition?  ;)

Online Dante

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2191
  • Darwins +72/-9
  • Gender: Male
  • Hedonist Extraordinaire
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2012, 06:12:54 PM »
I ask, in part, because of your reluctance to answer.

Color me curious.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: Kymer the punching bag
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2012, 06:14:05 PM »
Colour me mysterious.