Author Topic: Is Having Children Amoral?  (Read 184 times)

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Offline junebug72

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Is Having Children Amoral?
« on: October 27, 2014, 07:32:00 PM »
I've had this thought quite a few times during my debates.  Now I'm asking you; how is it a moral action to bare children into this world of pain, suffering and inevitable death; and taxes?

If there is is a Big Originator, nickname: "The Big O" that has a place prepared for our souls, no toture, it is not amoral to have children.

Interested in your thoughts...
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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2014, 08:05:13 PM »
Hey, junebug.

Interesting question... though for humans there are various emotional, intellectual and social embellishments on the subject, bottom line is that our genes strive to perpetuate themselves.

Is that moral? By itself, neither moral or amoral; just the drive to reproduce. In the context of society and individual circumstances, it could be seen as either. For instance, there are often cases where a child is born to parents who can't or won't support it.

There have also been a few cases where a child is conceived primarily as a donor of blood or other tissue to an older sibling who needs it, to minimize the risk of tissue rejection[1]. Is that moral? The first child has a life-threatening condition, and the second can donate with (hopefully) minimal risk to themselves.

So I would say: it depends. It depends on the reasons (if any) the parent/s have for reproducing (and it should be noted that there are other options, such as adoption) and their circumstances (which can change over time).

 1. http://savinghenry.com/2010/03/having-a-child-to-save-another/
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2014, 08:28:13 PM »
You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins.



Some people blame God for all the wars and the death that follow...I blame man.
Some people credit God for all the disease and natural disasters that follow...I blame no one.

The number one cause of death is life. No life...no death. So, bring your children. Bring their hope. Bring their vision for the future and pray that it is a brighter one for all. Their is nothing immoral about bringing children into this world because we never know which one will the next Einstein or Mother Teresa.

Stop breeding and humanity dies.


Edit:

Pray not prey
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 08:30:43 PM by Mr. Blackwell »
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Offline shnozzola

Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2014, 08:32:06 PM »
   We are life.  We, with our fortune to experience conscious thought, are a product of the eons of evolution on this planet.  We should be that much more amazed, realizing that it is all natural, no magician.   We reproduce and continue to play our part in evolution.  No matter how any of us view things, most of us get a chance to play our part to help or hurt evolution.

   We should (and many do) enjoy producing and/or raising children and teaching them to find and enjoy the fun of life, teaching them about the power and the ease of love.
 
    There is a play having starred Jason Robarts based on a '30s movie - "You Can't Take It With You," about a family who has fun, and lives totally moment to moment, finding everything funny, taking "play" into adult life.

   In a crowd of people, no matter how horrified one is about reality, there is someone else a few feet away having a marvelous time. 
“The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something."  ~ T. H. White
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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2014, 08:39:52 PM »
I will side with the OP.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2014, 08:47:07 PM »
I will side with the OP.

She is not taking a side. She is asking a question. So...what's YOUR question?
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2014, 02:48:36 AM »
It's not immoral to want something for yourself. It is immoral when you know it will harm others. Many parents wrongly believe they can protect their children from anything and everything. At best, they're delusional idiots; not immoral.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2014, 03:05:56 AM »

She is not taking a side. She is asking a question. So...what's YOUR question?


I have no question - I have my actions instead.

I didn't go forth and multiply - i'm ok with that.
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Offline bertatberts

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2014, 03:52:02 AM »
I've had this thought quite a few times during my debates.  Now I'm asking you; how is it a moral action to bare children into this world of pain, suffering and inevitable death; and taxes?

If there is is a Big Originator, nickname: "The Big O" that has a place prepared for our souls, no toture, it is not amoral to have children.

Interested in your thoughts...
It isnt amoral as that is a nautral position. However it is immoral to bring children into the world, I have children it is a totally selfish act. You would not put somebody in front of a speeding train, or in room full of ebola victims, yet we take those very chances with our children, and we hope that they survive, Some clearly don't. So yes it is an immoral act.
We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

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Offline Defiance

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2014, 05:44:58 AM »
Meh. Your choice.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2014, 06:22:09 AM »
"your choice" implies free will.....just kidding....
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2014, 09:40:36 AM »
Stop breeding and humanity dies.

Okay, so what's the downside?
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2014, 09:44:13 AM »
Having my son was a selfish act.  I did it for myself.  I did and still do Love him through it. Not everybody has the strength to pull that off and society pays for it eventually.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2014, 09:45:48 AM »
Stop breeding and humanity dies.

Okay, so what's the downside?

I do love the way you put things Screwtape.  Deep with a dash of humor. ;D
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline screwtape

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2014, 09:50:23 AM »
yeah.  I'm pretty awesome that way.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2014, 04:48:21 PM »
Having more than 2 (maybe 3) is in today's world.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 07:22:43 AM »
Now I'm going to turn it around, if a loving Creator plans to set our spirits free is it still amoral to have babies? 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline screwtape

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 09:12:25 AM »
a loving Creator plans to set our spirits free

What does this mean?  I am sure you anticipate my objections to a "loving creator", so I'll just leave that for now.  I would guess by "spirits" you mean souls.  Is that correct?   What is "free"?  Are they currently not free?  If not, how so?  What does a loving creator setting our spirits free (whatever that may mean) have to do with the crude and physical process of reproduction (which, btw, is not unique to humans)? 

Sorry if this sounds like peeing on your parade.  But, your question sounds like a bad greeting card or something Oprah would say to her legion of drones.
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Offline Dante

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 09:30:35 AM »
Now I'm going to turn it around, if a loving Creator plans to set our spirits free is it still amoral to have babies?

That's a pretty big "if", but even so, the answer is still "yes", depending on the amount of babies and other considerations.

It matters not if a "loving creator" would "set our spirits free" if we, as a species, overpopulate this planet to the point of unsustainability, and perhaps extinction of our species, for then there would be no one to have these "sprit babies".
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #19 on: Yesterday at 03:27:01 PM »
Now I'm going to turn it around, if a loving Creator plans to set our spirits free is it still amoral to have babies? 

Like screwtape, I need some clarifications: what exactly do you mean by "spirits" and "free"? Does the first term mean an immaterial consciousness that retains the same identity it had while part of a body, and the second that consciousness surviving bodily death? Assuming that's the gist of what you mean, then again I say, it depends.

People conceive, bear and raise children even under pretty trying circumstances: extreme poverty, warzones and the like. That has little to do with morality and much to do with sheer survival instinct. Generally, I would say that's a bad choice for parent/s and child alike.

Since you don't say otherwise, apparently physical existence and bodily death are either part of the plan or things the "loving creator" has no problem with. And a lot of those physical deaths are pretty traumatic, if only for those who see others die before them.

Junebug, I just don't see how "a loving creator" could be responsible for the world as it is, assuming that loving creator is omnipotent. If that's true, I don't see any way around the classic conundrum:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #20 on: Yesterday at 06:49:53 PM »
I've had this thought quite a few times during my debates.  Now I'm asking you; how is it a moral action to bare children into this world of pain, suffering and inevitable death; and taxes?

The true question you are asking is: Do morals exist?
For that I have no answer because on one hand I think I may be doing something right and in the other I think all we have is animal instinct, our mental state, and how we apply information we have learned.
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Offline Betelnut

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Re: Is Having Children Amoral?
« Reply #21 on: Yesterday at 07:32:01 PM »
I never had a child yet I am a parent. 

But I do feel that it is neither moral nor immoral to have a child (in most circumstances) so, yes, it is amoral.