Author Topic: Why would God fear your curiosity?  (Read 7394 times)

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Offline Emily

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #232 on: April 05, 2012, 07:25:40 PM »
And please don't put yourself upon a pedestal here. You are no better than I and I am loved by GOD just as you are.


not to sound rude but this makes you sound like a complete dick. One conclusion I can draw from this comment is that your god loves you yet doesn't give a shit about others who are in more dire situations. You have this awesome privilege in being granted food, a nice bed,  and a house with heat and running water, but gods other (many) creations (who are also human just like you) don't share the same privilege.

Is god really this loving? An all-perfect and all-loving (omnibenevolence) god would grant all its creation the same privileges you have. But very sadly, this isn't the case because a lot of this god's creation is living in need of some sort of miracle, and it's a need you god seems to ignore, yet it grants you your wishes, or at least it will stand time to listen to you.

So, are you're on god's A list or something, while others are deemed unworthy?

And BTW: You asking someone not to place yourself on a pedistal, while the same time claiming you are loved by some all-mighty god, you're placing yourself on a pedestal. 
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Offline MonicaLynn

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #233 on: April 05, 2012, 07:49:54 PM »
See you guys were still at it while I was gone. Thank you for the condolences. I often wonder to why me? Why am I blessed? I had a premie who lived, and my sister's did not years ago. I do think it quite unfair at times.
Only here to befriend and exchange ideas. I do believe in God, but i don't think you're going to hell.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #234 on: April 05, 2012, 07:59:11 PM »
And please don't put yourself upon a pedestal here. You are no better than I and I am loved by GOD just as you are.


not to sound rude but this makes you sound like a complete dick. One conclusion I can draw from this comment is that your god loves you yet doesn't give a shit about others who are in more dire situations. You have this awesome privilege in being granted food, a nice bed,  and a house with heat and running water, but gods other (many) creations (who are also human just like you) don't share the same privilege.

Is god really this loving? An all-perfect and all-loving (omnibenevolence) god would grant all its creation the same privileges you have. But very sadly, this isn't the case because a lot of this god's creation is living in need of some sort of miracle, and it's a need you god seems to ignore, yet it grants you your wishes, or at least it will stand time to listen to you.

So, are you're on god's A list or something, while others are deemed unworthy?

And BTW: You asking someone not to place yourself on a pedistal, while the same time claiming you are loved by some all-mighty god, you're placing yourself on a pedestal.

Removed for pointless rambling.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 08:21:50 PM by Alzael »
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Ice Monkey

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #235 on: April 05, 2012, 08:01:54 PM »
See you guys were still at it while I was gone. Thank you for the condolences. I often wonder to why me? Why am I blessed? I had a premie who lived, and my sister's did not years ago. I do think it quite unfair at times.

Welcome back.  I hope you're mother's ok. 

There's nothing fair about life, so grab someone to love and hang on.
There's a reason why life isn't fair.  We can discuss the Epicurean question that believers can't answer without changing the nature of their deity anytime you feel up to it.

Religion. It's given people hope in a world torn apart by religion." -- Charlie Chaplin

Offline MonicaLynn

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #236 on: April 05, 2012, 08:06:55 PM »
Actually, jtp, God says he is just. Does that equate to fair?

My mom is okay. She was getting worn out caregiving, so it's kind of a relief.
Only here to befriend and exchange ideas. I do believe in God, but i don't think you're going to hell.

Offline Historicity

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #237 on: April 05, 2012, 08:12:43 PM »
My mom is okay. She was getting worn out caregiving, so it's kind of a relief.

My parents are old, too, so unfortunately I feel that anxiety too.  So I can breathe a whew.  I hope her grandchild delights her.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #238 on: April 05, 2012, 08:15:39 PM »
Actually, jtp, God says he is just. Does that equate to fair?

My mom is okay. She was getting worn out caregiving, so it's kind of a relief.

There is no such thing as fairness.  It's a liberal myth.  Justice is what it is.  If a starving man steals bread from a rich man; it's still theft.

You answer me, what's fair?
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Ice Monkey

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #239 on: April 05, 2012, 08:16:00 PM »
Actually, jtp, God says he is just. Does that equate to fair?

My mom is okay. She was getting worn out caregiving, so it's kind of a relief.

my 20 years in geriatrics says this is when you keep an eye on your mom.  Guess we need a new thread.
Religion. It's given people hope in a world torn apart by religion." -- Charlie Chaplin

Offline jtp56

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #240 on: April 05, 2012, 08:27:13 PM »
Actually, jtp, God says he is just. Does that equate to fair?

My mom is okay. She was getting worn out caregiving, so it's kind of a relief.

my 20 years in geriatrics says this is when you keep an eye on your mom.  Guess we need a new thread.

No, we don't need a new thread.  Both my parents, two brothers are gone....long story.  We don't need a new thread.  Are you there for her? 

It sounds like you are.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #241 on: April 05, 2012, 08:30:30 PM »
Removed for more pointless rambling.

« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 08:39:40 PM by Alzael »
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Ice Monkey

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #242 on: April 05, 2012, 08:36:53 PM »

No, we don't need a new thread.  Both my parents, two brothers are gone....long story.  We don't need a new thread.  Are you there for her? 

It sounds like you are.

Ya, we do.  Hijacking a thread is bad form.  Look for the caregivers post in the Chatter section.
Religion. It's given people hope in a world torn apart by religion." -- Charlie Chaplin

Offline jtp56

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #243 on: April 05, 2012, 08:49:21 PM »
You won't let me post to Emilys rambling. You insist we need a new thread.  See ya.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #244 on: April 05, 2012, 08:54:04 PM »
You won't let me post to Emilys rambling. You insist we need a new thread.  See ya.

I never insisted a new thread. That was Ice.
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Offline caveat_imperator

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #245 on: April 05, 2012, 09:01:41 PM »
You won't let me post to Emilys rambling. You insist we need a new thread.  See ya.
Please let the door hit you on the way out.
You can't prove a negative of an existence postulate.

Offline MonicaLynn

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #246 on: April 05, 2012, 09:08:27 PM »
My parents are old, too, so unfortunately I feel that anxiety too.  So I can breathe a whew.  I hope her grandchild delights her.


Thank you. Haven't  quite gotten that quote thing down just yet.

Alzael:Monica, I fixed the quote for you. Try some practice on the test board, you should be able to get it soon.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 09:25:51 PM by Alzael »
Only here to befriend and exchange ideas. I do believe in God, but i don't think you're going to hell.

Offline Seppuku

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #247 on: April 05, 2012, 09:44:04 PM »
Actually, jtp, God says he is just. Does that equate to fair?

My mom is okay. She was getting worn out caregiving, so it's kind of a relief.

There is no such thing as fairness.  It's a liberal myth.  Justice is what it is.  If a starving man steals bread from a rich man; it's still theft.

You answer me, what's fair?

Surely justice is subjective?

Some would argue that the fact a man is starving is unjust or the fact a starving man can be punished for eating, even if his food is not his property.

Justice isn't necessarily to do with 'law', it can apply to morality too, which can be incredibly subjective. For example, one definition:
Quote
the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness:

In relation to the bible? Since when did Christians truly follow the laws for the bible? If they did, well, we non-believers would be screwed. And of course, a 'true' follower of the Bible would have to have a multiple personality disorder...it'd be the only way to handle some of contradictions. "Thou Shalt not Kill", "stone people to death" or "eye for an eye", "turn the other cheek". One ego would have to be a psychotic ultra conservative Christian and the other would have to be a crazy peace loving, people hugging liberal hippy Christian. Though it seems the best people can do is pick and choose which teachings best fit who they are, where they come from and/or their upbringing.

One day, said Christian would be:
Murder the homosexuals!!!

And the next:
Treat others as you would be treated, so I'm going to bake you a lemon pie.

Then:
Invade the towns of non-believers, kill them all.

And then:
They may be evil and they might be retaliating, but be sure to turn the other cheek!
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Offline MonicaLynn

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #248 on: April 05, 2012, 10:04:37 PM »
Lol!
Only here to befriend and exchange ideas. I do believe in God, but i don't think you're going to hell.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #249 on: April 05, 2012, 10:29:35 PM »

There is no such thing as fairness.  It's a liberal myth.  Justice is what it is.  If a starving man steals bread from a rich man; it's still theft.

You answer me, what's fair?

It's fair if the rich men get together and make laws, so that they can tax the poor man, and build very large palaces.

It's a liberal myth that the rich and powerful should be killed in the proletariat uprising.

Yes, by definition, if a poor man steals, it's still 'theft', but it's the rich who made the law, to protect themselves, not because non-theft is a proven godly virtue. It's then the rich who enforce the law, and scourge the poor man, not God.

God never made any property laws, lawyers did.

In the modern age, it's men who attempt fairness and justice, because the perception of it is what keeps society healthy.

It's God who does the earthquakes, HIV, malaria, painful childbirth. All the struggle and shit comes from God. It's a tough love.

Soft love and justice come as an ideal from left wing humans and Christians.

But, deep down, we know it wont work. Humans really need wars, syphilis, starvation, work-camp exploitation, arthritis. If we don't get our measure of pain and exploitation, we go all soft and soggy, and claim more welfare benefits.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #250 on: April 05, 2012, 11:21:55 PM »
I often wonder to why me? Why am I blessed? I had a premie who lived, and my sister's did not years ago. I do think it quite unfair at times.

This is called hyper-active agent detection. You can't explain something, but you think there must be an explanation, so you create an intelligent being to blame or praise as appropriate instead of actually trying to understand why things happen, or accepting that some things are currently beyond our ability to explain.

This is how gods are created.

Step 1 - the unexplained phenomenon: Lightning flashes in the sky.
Step 2 - curiosity: Ooh! What was that?
Step 3 - hyper-active agent detection: I bet someone did that.
Step 4 - imagination runs wild: They must be great and powerful, I wonder what else they can do?

This is precisely why you believe in God. It is nothing more than the desire to understand what you can't explain in the easiest way without actually trying to learn anything. The fact that it doesn't align with reality isn't a problem for you, since when you can't explain that, your magic explainerator is always in your pocket.

Why is there no evidence for God? Blah blah God magic.
Why isn't the bible backed up by historical evidence?  Blah blah God magic.
Why does the bible contradict itself?  Blah blah God magic.
Why don't the promises made by Jesus come true?  Blah blah God magic.

While this may be an acceptable answer for someone who has no real desire to understand anything, it's not good enough for us.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #251 on: April 05, 2012, 11:50:15 PM »

not to sound rude but this makes you sound like a complete dick. One conclusion I can draw from this comment is that your god loves you yet doesn't give a shit about others who are in more dire situations. You have this awesome privilege in being granted food, a nice bed,  and a house with heat and running water, but gods other (many) creations (who are also human just like you) don't share the same privilege.

Is god really this loving? An all-perfect and all-loving (omnibenevolence) god would grant all its creation the same privileges you have. But very sadly, this isn't the case because a lot of this god's creation is living in need of some sort of miracle, and it's a need you god seems to ignore, yet it grants you your wishes, or at least it will stand time to listen to you.

So, are you're on god's A list or something, while others are deemed unworthy?

And BTW: You asking someone not to place yourself on a pedistal, while the same time claiming you are loved by some all-mighty god, you're placing yourself on a pedestal.

Really not trying to be Emily. I am sorry you feel that way. I really believe that GOD loves you every bit as much as He loves me. I never deserved a second chance at life but here I am. I thank GOD.

It isn't always easy folks. I don't know who told you everything would be easy or just peachy like a bed of roses. But it's not and I won't candy coat it for you.

To be clear. I have threatened no one here. And when someone comes along making false accusations against me, I don't have a problem stating my case. I know I have been forgiven and I don't need someone else pointing fingers at me. Much less another Christian. GOD only knows how many times "another" self proclaimed christian comes along "again" and starts correcting people like they have 1 less sin than I do. Or like they are even more charitable. Or their relationship with The Lord is so much better. Give me a break. Been there, done that. And then, throwing the "Book" at me. In which the scripture was taken out of context to begin with.

The one thing I do know is that GOD is my Savior. Yes, The Lord Jesus Christ. And if another Christian has a problem with it. They can take it up with The Lord Jesus Christ. I have done nothing wrong and I am sure if they are legit, then The Lord will let them know.

I am so sick of religion. But my heart belongs to faith.

So please forgive me people. Today wasn't a "peachy" day. And my original tone was sincere, honest and heartfelt. Not an attempt to be an ass or even passive aggressive. Just cut the crap already, OK. And quite making false accusations against me. Especially someone calling them self a Christian.

Atheists think I am nuts and yet another Christian rebukes me, "again".

And anyone wonders why I have faith in Jesus Christ...?

Yet, I suspect none of you have a clue.






« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 12:14:06 AM by ILOVEYOU »

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #252 on: April 06, 2012, 01:10:25 AM »
And anyone wonders why I have faith in Jesus Christ...?

Yet, I suspect none of you have a clue.

Oh, we have a clue, alright.

You picked the eyes out of Christianity, and believe enough of it to think that a man became a God, and saved you. You then think that this man is in your life, and talking to you, and giving you free stuff.

You (I think) dismiss hell, because either you feel like it, or your own personal Jesus has communicated that hell is a religious invention. Which is it? At least we can have you answer one thing...

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Ice Monkey

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #253 on: April 06, 2012, 01:16:39 AM »
Really not trying to be Emily. I am sorry you feel that way. I really believe that GOD loves you every bit as much as He loves me. I never deserved a second chance at life but here I am. I thank GOD.

It isn't always easy folks. I don't know who told you everything would be easy or just peachy like a bed of roses. But it's not and I won't candy coat it for you.

To be clear. I have threatened no one here. And when someone comes along making false accusations against me, I don't have a problem stating my case. I know I have been forgiven and I don't need someone else pointing fingers at me. Much less another Christian. GOD only knows how many times "another" self proclaimed christian comes along "again" and starts correcting people like they have 1 less sin than I do. Or like they are even more charitable. Or their relationship with The Lord is so much better. Give me a break. Been there, done that. And then, throwing the "Book" at me. In which the scripture was taken out of context to begin with.

The one thing I do know is that GOD is my Savior. Yes, The Lord Jesus Christ. And if another Christian has a problem with it. They can take it up with The Lord Jesus Christ. I have done nothing wrong and I am sure if they are legit, then The Lord will let them know.

I am so sick of religion. But my heart belongs to faith.

So please forgive me people. Today wasn't a "peachy" day. And my original tone was sincere, honest and heartfelt. Not an attempt to be an ass or even passive aggressive. Just cut the crap already, OK. And quite making false accusations against me. Especially someone calling them self a Christian.

Atheists think I am nuts and yet another Christian rebukes me, "again".

And anyone wonders why I have faith in Jesus Christ...?

Yet, I suspect none of you have a clue.

Have you ever heard of Julia Sweeney?
http://www.amazon.com/Letting-Go-God-Julia-Sweeney/dp/B000MM107I
Religion. It's given people hope in a world torn apart by religion." -- Charlie Chaplin

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #254 on: April 06, 2012, 01:17:51 AM »

This is called hyper-active agent detection. You can't explain something, but you think there must be an explanation, so you create an intelligent being to blame or praise as appropriate instead of actually trying to understand why things happen, or accepting that some things are currently beyond our ability to explain.


Could be just called conceit. I'll give you two lives:

1. One man, born with perfect genetics, he is challenged by nothing, and resorts to drugs and parties. Never has children, lives a life without real love.
2. Second man, born with genetic disease, loses a child, has cancer and survives. Loses his wife in a car crash. Surrounded by people that love him.

Christians would say that the second man is the one who is blessed, and grows spiritually, through hardship.

The paradox is that Christians tend to believe that God is blessing them when they get good fortune. You cannot possibly judge whether God is blessing or cursing you.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #255 on: April 06, 2012, 03:39:23 AM »
Could be just called conceit. I'll give you two lives:
<snip>

Don't bother with any of that. Assuming God exists then trying to explain why he doesn't make sense is flawed reasoning when hyper-active agent detection not only explains why people invented and believe in gods but also doesn't require any excuses to explain why said gods can't do any of the things they promise.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #256 on: April 06, 2012, 03:48:10 AM »
Why am I blessed? I had a premie who lived, and my sister's did not years ago. I do think it quite unfair at times.

uUnfair on you, yes.  Your sister's baby went straight to heaven.  Yours will suffer this earth for decades to come, and then......well, consider this possibility.  Your child will become one of the truly evil people you spoke of earlier, designied that way by your god.  YOUR CHILD.....because every one of those "evil people" was someone's child.  You thought it was fine for your god to send them to hell - I presume you are okay with your god doing that to YOUR child?  Can you explain  why it is fair, or just, for your god to make your child evil and send them to hell as some kind of life lesson for other people?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #257 on: April 06, 2012, 04:12:46 AM »
when hyper-active agent detection not only explains why people invented and believe in gods but also doesn't require any excuses to explain why said gods can't do any of the things they promise.

Yes, but she was asking why she is conceited.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #258 on: April 06, 2012, 04:24:31 AM »
Your sister's baby went straight to heaven.  Yours will suffer this earth for decades to come, and then......well, consider this possibility.  Your child will become one of the truly evil people you spoke of earlier, designied that way by your god.  YOUR CHILD.....because every one of those "evil people" was someone's child.  You thought it was fine for your god to send them to hell - I presume you are okay with your god doing that to YOUR child?  Can you explain  why it is fair, or just, for your god to make your child evil and send them to hell as some kind of life lesson for other people?

Anfauglir, I don't think it's wise or useful to engage in this type of discussion on her terms. And by her terms I mean assuming God exists and then trying to explain his actions. She will find an excuse, they always do. Instead, I think we need to help her understand why she believes in God, and why that belief is wrong. Any line of questioning that begins with "Well, if there is a God, then why X?" will simply result in her reaching for her magic explainerator.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Johnny Spunkypants

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #259 on: April 06, 2012, 06:36:36 AM »
I'm sorry.  I forgot myself.

Johnny, you're an idiot!

We're all idiots.

Peace.
I'm not here to defend my views. I'm here simply to give my two cents.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #260 on: April 06, 2012, 08:21:36 AM »
It isn't always easy folks. I don't know who told you everything would be easy or just peachy like a bed of roses. But it's not and I won't candy coat it for you.

I and most everyone here, I think, agrees that everything isn't easy or a bed of roses.

And then you say:

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To be clear. I have threatened no one here. And when someone comes along making false accusations against me, I don't have a problem stating my case. I know I have been forgiven and I don't need someone else pointing fingers at me. Much less another Christian. GOD only knows how many times "another" self proclaimed christian comes along "again" and starts correcting people like they have 1 less sin than I do. Or like they are even more charitable. Or their relationship with The Lord is so much better. Give me a break. Been there, done that. And then, throwing the "Book" at me. In which the scripture was taken out of context to begin with.

The one thing I do know is that GOD is my Savior. Yes, The Lord Jesus Christ. And if another Christian has a problem with it. They can take it up with The Lord Jesus Christ. I have done nothing wrong and I am sure if they are legit, then The Lord will let them know.

I am so sick of religion. But my heart belongs to faith.

You know because you know.  No need to examine *why* you know, no need to be able to explain to others *why* you know that god is your savior (from what, you've not explained).  If someone else thinks you're wrong, well, it's their problem, not yours.  They can take it up with god - you don't have to do a damn thing.

You're already forgiven, so no need to make an reparations or amends for anything.  You're sick of religion, but have a big thing for faith - the acceptance/belief without evidence.

How, exactly, are you NOT taking the easy way out of anything here????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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So please forgive me people. Today wasn't a "peachy" day. And my original tone was sincere, honest and heartfelt. Not an attempt to be an ass or even passive aggressive. Just cut the crap already, OK. And quite making false accusations against me. Especially someone calling them self a Christian.

Atheists think I am nuts and yet another Christian rebukes me, "again".

And anyone wonders why I have faith in Jesus Christ...?

Yet, I suspect none of you have a clue.

I'm still wondering why you have faith in Jesus Christ.  It sounds like you have faith in Jesus because you have faith in Jesus, which doesn't answer that question at all.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

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