Author Topic: Why would God fear your curiosity? (Read 4725 times)

MonicaLynn · « **Reply #174 on:** April 05, 2012, 10:54:13 AM »

Quote from: jdawg70 on April 05, 2012, 10:49:57 AM

Quote from: MonicaLynn on April 05, 2012, 10:36:44 AM
I

In either case, what I guess I'm interested in is how you arrived at your conclusion.

I'm trying

I'd love to continue, but my baby just woke up. I'll be back later today. Good talking with you guys and I hope everyone has a great day

One Above All · « **Reply #175 on:** April 05, 2012, 10:58:44 AM »

MonicaLynn, I don't mean to be "rude" or anything[1], but Omen is still waiting for his answer. What's the difference between your claims and those of a nutjob?[2]

1.	This is an expression. I'm mocking your claim that we're being rude for asking you to be intellectually honest.
2.	Paraphrased.

atheola · « **Reply #176 on:** April 05, 2012, 11:00:45 AM »

I have no problems with ML believing in a god. We're all entitled to their beliefs..
I believe Warren Buffet any day now will claim me as his long lost love child, but I'm not going to Berkshire Hathaway's offices to make such a claim.

Alzael · « **Reply #177 on:** April 05, 2012, 11:02:36 AM »

Quote from: MonicaLynn on April 05, 2012, 10:43:58 AM

My thoughts are lazy, yet you repeat yourselves again and again. I fail to see the validity in your persecution of my efforts.

I can only play the notes I'm given. You haven't said anything new, and you still haven't answered the questions with anything that wasn't a fallacy or just a bare assertion.

Quote from: MonicaLynn on April 05, 2012, 10:50:21 AM

Asking me and being rude are two different things. I get it though. I Did the same ting to people. I'm just saying ease up on me a little with the approach.

I have very little patience for people that just want to waste time being vacant and babbling incessantly. Believe it or not, you have been getting the easy approach, and you wasted it. You're 33+ posts in and still haven't managed to provide a decent argument or a justification for anything that wasn't fallacious. What you're starting to see now is the loss of patience that everyone is starting to have. This is where it starts to get rough because you've lost any credibility for being taken seriously at this point and it has to be built back up.

As I sort of said previously, if you have a point to make, then make it. If you have an argument, present it. If you have evidence, show it. If you have a legitimate answer to a question raised, offer it. Otherwise, no one really cares.

This is a discussion forum. We are here to discuss things, not to listen to you prattle on about your vague feelings and unsupported assertions.

So far you're saying nothing that has not been heard a million times before. We could recite this in our sleep. It was vapid babble the first tme we heard it, and hearing it the second, third, and five hundredth time have not improved it in the slightest.

Omen · « **Reply #178 on:** April 05, 2012, 11:04:00 AM »

Quote from: MonicaLynn on April 05, 2012, 10:54:13 AM

I'd love to continue, but my baby just woke up. I'll be back later today. Good talking with you guys and I hope everyone has a great day

If you do come back we will continue to 'persecute' you by asking you questions that force you to be accountable for your own claims.

Historicity · « **Reply #179 on:** April 05, 2012, 11:04:52 AM »

Quote from: Lucifer on April 05, 2012, 10:32:35 AM

If you and only you have the OneTrueDecoderRing^TM, then you are a prophet. Is not a prophet someone who knows "the word of god" better than anyone else?

Maybe terminology from Ellinais[1] would help. At Greek temples where you could go for a prophecy the duty was split between the oracle and the prophet. The oracle was (usually) a woman who would speak with the voice of a God and say something spacey and mystical. The prophet would then interpret that into everyday sense.

Source: Robin Lane Fox, Pagans and Christians: In the Mediterranean World from the Second Century AD to the Conversion of Constantine (1986).

1.	The name recently given to the Greco-Roman religion.

MonicaLynn · « **Reply #180 on:** April 05, 2012, 11:35:35 AM »

Dis-cus-sion : the act or process of talking about something, Typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.

I thought that's what this was. I must be mistaken. It seems that decisions have already been made, no one wants new ideas ( note : an idea is something that cannot be proven because it is an opinion), and the real purpose for most of you is to be rude to people tht think differently. Have fun in your "discussion" forums

Ps- the best way to find truth is to see things from both sides and then decide on the best conclusion. I'm 2 for 2 on the left.... Check your numbers. You may find your approach is flawed. This is the basis of a debate.

One Above All · « **Reply #181 on:** April 05, 2012, 11:37:30 AM »

Quote from: MonicaLynn on April 05, 2012, 11:35:35 AM

( note : an idea is something that cannot be proven because it is an opinion)

No. Not all ideas are opinions and anything that's not subjective CAN be proven.
MonicaLynn, why do you think it's OK to be dishonest?

Alzael · « **Reply #182 on:** April 05, 2012, 11:37:58 AM »

Quote from: MonicaLynn on April 05, 2012, 11:35:35 AM

Dis-cus-sion : the act or process of talking about something, Typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.

I thought that's what this was. I must be mistaken. It seems that decisions have already been made, no one wants new ideas ( note : an idea is something that cannot be proven because it is an opinion), and the real purpose for most of you is to be rude to people tht think differently. Have fun in your "discussion" forums

You haven't presented any new ideas. Just very, very old ones.

Also if you would check the rules of the site (you know the ones that you agreed to when you signed up) the members are expected to back up and support their ideas.

MonicaLynn · « **Reply #183 on:** April 05, 2012, 11:40:25 AM »

A hypothesis is something hat can be proven or disproven. The definition said idea, not hypothesis love.

Just because the evidence is not supported to ones liking does not mean that it is not supported sufficiently to another. We are speaking of so many variables here. Perhaps tha is why we should Tay on topic.

God does not fear curiosity.

One Above All · « **Reply #184 on:** April 05, 2012, 11:46:04 AM »

Quote from: MonicaLynn on April 05, 2012, 11:40:25 AM

A hypothesis is something hat can be proven or disproven. The definition said idea, not hypothesis love.

"Love"? We haven't even been on a date yet.

Seriously though, a hypothesis is also an idea. It's better than a guess because it's falsifiable, and if proven, it becomes a scientific theory, but it's still just an idea.

Quote from: MonicaLynn on April 05, 2012, 11:40:25 AM

Just because the evidence is not supported to ones liking does not mean that it is not supported sufficiently to another. We are speaking of so many variables here. Perhaps tha is why we should Tay on topic.

So there IS evidence? Where is this evidence?

Alzael · « **Reply #185 on:** April 05, 2012, 11:52:53 AM »

Quote from: MonicaLynn on April 05, 2012, 11:40:25 AM

A hypothesis is something hat can be proven or disproven. The definition said idea, not hypothesis love.

Just because the evidence is not supported to ones liking does not mean that it is not supported sufficiently to another. We are speaking of so many variables here. Perhaps tha is why we should Tay on topic.

God does not fear curiosity.

Evidence can be shown to others. So if you have evidence present it. It's not a question of the evidence not being to our liking. It's a question of the evidence even existing in the first place. Once you show that there actually is evidence, then we can focus on whether it's sufficient to reach a conclusion.

Omen · « **Reply #186 on:** April 05, 2012, 11:53:24 AM »

Quote from: MonicaLynn on April 05, 2012, 11:40:25 AM

A hypothesis is something hat can be proven or disproven. The definition said idea, not hypothesis love.

Nothing in science is proven, a scientific hypothesis is a guess that has not yet been subjected to the scrutiny of experimentation, observation, and prediction. Once it has that scientific hypothesis becomes a scientific theory. A scientific theory can still be disproved even after it has become accepted as a theory.

You really shouldn't begin making assertions about subjects you know absolutely nothing about.

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Just because the evidence is not supported to ones liking does not mean that it is not supported sufficiently to another.

Either P=P or P doesn't equal P. Does the grass in my backyard represent evidence for grass in my backyard or not? Either it is or it isn't, no equivocation required. If you insist that it isn't, then what is 'evidence' for anything if not nothing? At that point you're trying to reduce 'knowledge' to not being able to claim anything at all, in order to defend your inability to provide reasonable support for your own claims.

Someone has already pointed out that you are suffering from confirmation bias, it is not us.

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We are speaking of so many variables here. Perhaps tha is why we should Tay on topic.

You have yet to provide a variable for anything.

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God does not fear curiosity.

You do, you attacked the ability to hold and maintain knowledge when it didn't confirm what you want to believe.

MonicaLynn · « **Reply #187 on:** April 05, 2012, 12:00:35 PM »

To prove that god does not fear our curiosity, I would first have to prove god to you. All of these discussions even involving the concept of god are then subject to proof of him which cannot be provided from one human to another, but only from God to a human. Therefor, my opinion is typed in vain so long as I am asked to prove what cannot be and my hat is off to you. I suppose I must forfeit my stake in this conversation with the utmost admiration of your intellect and practical application of it. Cheers, gentlemen.

Omen · « **Reply #188 on:** April 05, 2012, 12:07:15 PM »

Quote from: MonicaLynn on April 05, 2012, 12:00:35 PM

To prove that god does not fear our curiosity, I would first have to prove god to you.

False. The actual op of the title is about how culturally religious indoctrination precludes censoring the free exchange of information, education, and exposure to outside influences precisely for the benefit of promoting the in group dogma.

You have gone and demonstrated your own indoctrinating censorship but offering a sophist position by attacking the means by which to 'know' anything, in the latest post above. ( which I pointed out in reply )

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All of these discussions even involving the concept of god are then subject to proof of him which cannot be provided from one human to another

This is false.

If you provide a reasonable line of evidence to support a religious claim as true, than I will accept it as reasonably true. The problem is that your religion ( christianity ) has been unequivocally proven false, yet you insist upon believing it. When questioned on it you retreat into red herrings or blatantly just ignoring the problems. You goal shift your position around to avoid any nasty argument that would require to be accountable for your claim. Now, with this line of reasoning, you're trying to further reduce the ability to know to a qualification of 'magic knowledge'.

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Therefor, my opinion is typed in vain so long as I am asked to prove

You claim to have magical knowledge to understand christian religious texts, you could simply provide that by building a logically coherent and non-contradictory rationale for christianity overall supported by evidence. It is what you already claim to have anyway, so what's so hard about providing it?

One Above All · « **Reply #189 on:** April 05, 2012, 12:11:07 PM »

MonicaLynn, Omen is still waiting for an answer. Or maybe not. But I am. Don't you think it would be rude to keep me waiting after two pages of nonsense?

MonicaLynn · « **Reply #190 on:** April 05, 2012, 12:14:51 PM »

All I can say is that I did not believe, I prayed for proof. I was granted it. I not claim that it is magic. If you want proof, you are right to ask, but you are asking the wrong person. If you sincerely pray to god for faith, he will show you the things I cannot. If he does not, then you can go on believing he is not real. That is fair enough I think.

Omen · « **Reply #191 on:** April 05, 2012, 12:18:29 PM »

Monica, how does your magical knowledge of god answer the fact that historically speaking the bible barely coincides with actual archaeological/historical research in the 8th century BCE?

That would mean that all previous events up to this point either never exist or did not exist as claimed. There would have been no garden of eden to have a fall, no army of hebrew slaves in egypt for jews to have an exodus out of, no 40 years wandering the desert and then genocidal cleansing of the land of canaan, no moses, no king david, etc. etc. The bible doesn't seem to know about the people of the sea and various invaders in the land of Canaan within the same period, it also doesn't seem to know that Egypt actually had settlements and garrisons in the land of canaan ( and modern day israel ) at the same time too. In fact, there is virtually no evidence of a great monotheistic empire of jews until after the 8th century BCE.. yet the bible claims a history that spans a thousand years before that ( if not more ).

So how does magic knowledge account for the total absence of evidence to support the claim and complete evidence required to contradict it?

Omen · « **Reply #192 on:** April 05, 2012, 12:20:43 PM »

Quote from: MonicaLynn on April 05, 2012, 12:14:51 PM

All I can say is that I did not believe, I prayed for proof. I was granted it.

And you can distinguish this 'proof' from subjective rationale how?

How do you know that you didn't suffer a stroke or are simply mentally incompetent?

How do you know that you're not delusional?

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I not claim that it is magic.

You provide no terms that would differentiate it from magic.

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If you sincerely pray to god for faith, he will show you the things I cannot.

Many of us are former believers who believed sincerely, who prayed regularly, and are more well versed on biblical subjects than you are.

MonicaLynn · « **Reply #193 on:** April 05, 2012, 12:20:57 PM »

Does this mean that you reuse my suggestion about asking God instead of me? Why do you continue to ask me things that I have already said I do not know? Will I gain more knowledge the more you ask me?

The Pharisee men were well versed too... What's the point?

Omen · « **Reply #194 on:** April 05, 2012, 12:22:51 PM »

Quote from: MonicaLynn on April 05, 2012, 12:20:57 PM

Does this mean that you reuse my suggestion about asking God instead of me? Why do you continue to ask me things that I have already said I do not know? Will I gain more knowledge the more you ask me?

You're dishonestly moving the goal post, trying to shifting accountability away from your own claims. If you have magic knowledge then it should be quite easy for you to support the claims of your own religious ideology.

jdawg70 · « **Reply #195 on:** April 05, 2012, 12:29:11 PM »

Quote from: MonicaLynn on April 05, 2012, 12:14:51 PM

All I can say is that I did not believe, I prayed for proof. I was granted it. I not claim that it is magic. If you want proof, you are right to ask, but you are asking the wrong person. If you sincerely pray to god for faith, he will show you the things I cannot. If he does not, then you can go on believing he is not real. That is fair enough I think.

All I can say is that I did not believe, I prayed for proof. I was granted it. I not claim that it is magic. If you want proof, you are right to ask, but you are asking the wrong person. If you sincerely pray to The Greek Pantheon for faith, they will show you the things I cannot. If they do not, then you can go on believing they are not real. That is fair enough I think.

All I can say is that I did not believe, I prayed for proof. I was granted it. I not claim that it is magic. If you want proof, you are right to ask, but you are asking the wrong person. If you sincerely pray to The Flying Spaghetti Monster for faith, he will show you the things I cannot. If he does not, then you can go on believing he is not real. That is fair enough I think.

All I can say is that I did not believe, I prayed for proof. I was granted it. I not claim that it is magic. If you want proof, you are right to ask, but you are asking the wrong person. If you sincerely pray to Vishnu for faith, he will show you the things I cannot. If he does not, then you can go on believing he is not real. That is fair enough I think.

All I can say is that I did not believe, I prayed for proof. I was granted it. I not claim that it is magic. If you want proof, you are right to ask, but you are asking the wrong person. If you sincerely pray to The Raelians for faith, they will show you the things I cannot. If they do not, then you can go on believing they are not real. That is fair enough I think.

All I can say is that I did not believe, I prayed for proof. I was granted it. I not claim that it is magic. If you want proof, you are right to ask, but you are asking the wrong person. If you sincerely pray to David Koresh for faith, he will show you the things I cannot. If he does not, then you can go on believing he is not real. That is fair enough I think.

Do you not see anything wrong with that? Here, let me spell it out:

Your proposed system for finding truth:
Step 1) Posit a conclusion.
Step 2) Really, really, really want that conclusion to be true.
Step 3) If conclusion not believed, repeat step 2.

That bother you? Let's try this variant:
Your proposed system for finding truth:
Step 1) Posit a conclusion.
Step 2) Ask the conclusion if the conclusion is true.
Step 3) If conclusion not believed, repeat step 2.

If you still think I'm getting that wrong, please explain.

MonicaLynn · « **Reply #196 on:** April 05, 2012, 12:29:38 PM »

Sorry you feel I'm being dishonest. I wonder though, from your side, why the thought that God is afraid of curiosity? I'm very curious. I don't think that is bad. Do you?

I understand what you are saying. Makes sense.@jdawg

Omen · « **Reply #197 on:** April 05, 2012, 12:34:39 PM »

Quote from: MonicaLynn on April 05, 2012, 12:29:38 PM

Sorry you feel I'm being dishonest. I wonder though, from your side, why the thought that God is afraid of curiosity? I'm very curious. I don't think that is bad. Do you?

I understand what you are saying. Makes sense.@jdawg

Can you respond to my posts?