Author Topic: Why would God fear your curiosity?  (Read 7403 times)

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Offline joebbowers

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Why would God fear your curiosity?
« on: March 26, 2012, 03:15:41 AM »
It's a common trait of most religions that they indoctrinate children who are too young to know better, discourage scientific education, censor and forbid certain books, and generally discourage or outright condemn you for asking difficult questions about your religion. Faith, which is not knowledge in any sense of the word, but is belief without evidence and often belief in the face of opposing evidence, is hailed as among the highest of human virtues.

So I want to ask you theists this question, don't you find that a little strange? Why would God fear your curiosity? If God exists, shouldn't your thirst for knowledge simply discover more and more evidence and confirm your belief? Why would God discourage that?
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2012, 04:19:48 AM »
My guess?  Whatever god there is prefers faith to knowledge.  For whatever reason, gods prefer to keep themselves in the background, to always be a "maybe", to never give a definite answer.

The search for knowledge looks for answers.  We fidn things out, get more and more precise with our measuring.

My guess as to why theists hate that, would be because once you get a taste for knowledge, for facts, for evidence, it becomes harder and harder to believe.  The evidence seems to bear that out, with rates of belief dropping the more educated you become.

So the search for knowledge leads you away from god.  And, of course, keeps you longer from heaven.  In the days before medicine and sanitation and so on, you were born, and chances are were with god in a dozen years or less.....almost certinaly by your 30th birthday.  But with all this searching for knowledge, these days people don't get to go to god until they are 80 or 90 sometimes.  That can't be right.....
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Brakeman

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2012, 06:19:10 AM »
He would fear my curiosity in the same way the Wizard of OZ feared someone peeking behind the curtain. His creator would be found out.
Help find the cure for FUNDAMENTIA !

Offline ungod

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2012, 07:36:43 AM »
Like Judge JUdy, God doesn't answer questions.

Quote
Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.

Martin Luther


Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

"What good fortune for those in power that people do not think." - Hitler

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2012, 08:35:49 AM »
I think its pretty obvious why. Theyve done a great job of creating confusion within the belief system itself so that no answer is ever necessary. Of course when all else fails they'll throw the ol "dont lean on your own understanding" bit to wiggle out of tight situations. Personally, I'm embarrassed for all of mankind for not seeing through this smoke and mirrors.

I feel like I'm failing at my job when I cant get people to see through this non-sense. And it hurts deeply.

Offline gonegolfing

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2012, 09:03:00 AM »

The god concept is simply a mind projection that is an explanation of humanities fears, credulity, and ignorance, and especially, of what humanity would love to be and experience.

The inventors and guardians of religions who claim to speak for gods, hate nothing more than the idea of the loss of their trade. The greater the curiosity and gaining of knowedge and use of reason in humanity--the greater the loss of faith and belief in the god idea and therefore the greater the loss for religions and their purses.

This is why religions lust after the minds of children who haven't reached the age of reason and the mental capacities to ward off such nonsense. Religious beliefs that get deeply rooted in a young mind are very hard to uproot.

Since there is no evidence for gods, it's completely obvious then that it's the inventors of gods that fear curiosity and knowledge as it exposes them and their ideas as false and dangerously misleading.

The utter failure of religions would create the only spike in unemployment that I would actually love to see  ;) ...As a matter of fact I'd even billet an out of work pastor or two for free until they found a real job and got back on their rational feet !!  ;D
"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2012, 11:08:41 AM »
Yes, thank you ObviousSquadâ„¢, for all the things I already know.

I am asking theists.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline atheola

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2012, 12:39:02 PM »
Intellectual property rights... God has all knowledge pantented.  :angel:
That whole judgement thing.. You'll see gods lawyers Christianity, Islam and Judaism in court..
"Your honor..you told the defendants ancestors to not eat that apple...."
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 12:47:18 PM by atheola »
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Get on your knees right now and thank GOD for not being real!

Offline Omen

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2012, 12:56:19 PM »
Prediction: Evoke magic knowledge, by claiming a specially pleaded qualification that makes it impossible to determine objectively and is inseparable from being mentally insane, the contradictory religious claims of someone else, and in total absence of accounting for internal contradictions of belief if the religion were taken seriously.

It's enough sophistry to justify to ones self personally ( and arrogantly ) to not take responsibility for one's own claim and to dismiss a priori anything that doesn't agree with what you want to believe.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 12:57:51 PM by Omen »
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2012, 01:18:25 PM »
It's a common trait of most religions that they indoctrinate children who are too young to know better, discourage scientific education, censor and forbid certain books, and generally discourage or outright condemn you for asking difficult questions about your religion. Faith, which is not knowledge in any sense of the word, but is belief without evidence and often belief in the face of opposing evidence, is hailed as among the highest of human virtues.

So I want to ask you theists this question, don't you find that a little strange? Why would God fear your curiosity? If God exists, shouldn't your thirst for knowledge simply discover more and more evidence and confirm your belief? Why would God discourage that?

First off not all Theists think like this. Not all keep their children from an education.

So what is it you find wrong with me...?

I raise my children to love people. regardless of race, religion or any other reason. But to know the difference between good and bad things. Our opinions may differ on this but so does most peoples opinions. Doesn't most parents...? Do you want the best for your children...?  So how do you base this...? What set of morals do you live by that you would want to pass on to your children and why...?

I don't have a problem with teaching my children about my faith in GOD. I love them the way that I know that GOD loves me. To the best of my understanding. I have never indoctrinated my children. And I want them to grow in faith, just as GOD is teaching me. And I fully trust in Him to do this. So I am not forcing any religion on to my children. But I am passing my faith on to them. As I am responsible as a parent to do this because I love my children and I want the very best for them. I am trusting in GOD. And He is faithful.

So again, how do you measure what is considered good or bad or to base a standard set of morality from...?

It seems as if TV Networks and Corporate America seems as if they know what's best for my child. When in reality, they care about making a profit. Some parents would agree that it is OK for sex, drugs and violence to be suitable for their children. Others see the harm in it. Some don't care that their children engage in sexual activity at early ages, others do. Some parents buy alcohol for their children before the required age. Some see the potential risk in it, some don't see, other don't care.

And teaching my children the best way that I know how by what I believe to be good. To prepare them to make good choices in life and how to handle them as well as cope. GOD has not failed me nor will He fail my children.

You see, what we have here is a difference in opinions. I believe and know GOD to be true based upon faith. You say you don't believe in GOD because of lack of evidence, logic and reason.

For me, I have every reason to believe that such a GOD exists, for the simple reason that I exist and anything exists at all. Is reason enough for me to pursue this truth. And based upon what I know to be good and true from what is already within me. I can relate to what is taught and why about Jesus Christ. Also by examining my life and the world around me.

So you say you have no reason to believe but for me I have every reason to believe. I have every reason to believe the there is a reason for this life. That it isn't just "because". Because of that which I already know from that which is within me.




Offline ungod

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2012, 01:25:02 PM »

The god concept is simply a mind projection that is an explanation of humanities fears, credulity, and ignorance, and especially, of what humanity would love to be and experience.

Wrong. The God lie is a conspiracy devised by sociopaths to enslave the masses. It was adopted by the oligarchy so the priests wouldn't usurp their authority. Much easier to have a priest and temple in each town than to keep enough soldiers there to maintain obedience. Also avoids the problem of the soldiers eventually realizing that a coup will allow them to replace the oligarchy. (See Gadaffi for a recent example...)
One religion would doubtless become too powerful, and thus we have a pre-emptive  divide and conquer by havings hundreds of variations of the God scam vying for domination, each claiming to be the one true religion. That the stupid yokels can't see through this should tell you something.
But now we have the Borg, AKA Islam. With the laughable concept of "freedom of religion" in the constitution of many countries (how come there's no "freedom to be a slave"?), the Borg religion cannot be disallowed. While it gleefully uses "freedom of religion" to propagate itself, it's members are under a death sentence should they become apostates. And, in countries where it reigns supreme, other brands of God scams are forbidden. So much for their belief in "freedom of religion, huh.
Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

"What good fortune for those in power that people do not think." - Hitler

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2012, 01:43:01 PM »
This is a pretty good question.

For some reason, it reminds me of the Wizard of Oz.  If something is truly so great and powerful, why would it need to intimidate?  Leaving aside the obvious conclusion, that it's a deliberate scam of some kind, I think there's two possible answers.  First is the innate distrust of contradictory information that most people have.  If someone believes something, and someone else comes and tells them something which contradicts it, the knee-jerk reaction is to defend the original belief.  Most people internalize the ideas they believe in (SPAG is an example of this), so it's even more likely they'll defend it.

Second is fear of being supplanted.  Just as an authoritarian government will prop themselves up to be intimidating to squelch the very idea of resistance, so too is religious belief propped up by those who believe in it.  In the latter case, it's because they share in the glamor of their belief, and because if they can puff their belief up enough to intimidate others into not fighting it, it spares them trouble in the long run.  Of course, since a bluff costs either half or double, when it doesn't work, it really falls flat.

Offline Omen

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2012, 01:43:24 PM »
I don't have a problem with teaching my children about my faith in GOD. I love them the way that I know that GOD loves me. To the best of my understanding. I have never indoctrinated my children.

So, when they ask for evidence for your religious claims.. you  ...... ?
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2012, 01:48:41 PM »
I don't have a problem with teaching my children about my faith in GOD. I love them the way that I know that GOD loves me. To the best of my understanding. I have never indoctrinated my children.

So, when they ask for evidence for your religious claims.. you  ...... ?
That on GODS timing and will, He will reveal this to you.

Offline Omen

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2012, 01:54:36 PM »
I don't have a problem with teaching my children about my faith in GOD. I love them the way that I know that GOD loves me. To the best of my understanding. I have never indoctrinated my children.

So, when they ask for evidence for your religious claims.. you  ...... ?
That on GODS timing and will, He will reveal this to you.

So you're going to dismiss your child at hand, as you dismiss people out of hand here, based on a qualification that makes it impossible to determine anything.

What happens when your child learns that the claims the bible makes about history are false?

What happens when your child learns that he/she is an evolved primate?

What will your response be?
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2012, 01:58:39 PM »


So you're going to dismiss your child at hand, as you dismiss people out of hand here, based on a qualification that makes it impossible to determine anything.

What happens when your child learns that the claims the bible makes about history are false?

What happens when your child learns that he/she is an evolved primate?

What will your response be?

I will tell them that GOD will teach them as in the same way He has taught many, including me. By faith.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 02:12:58 PM by ILOVEYOU »

Offline Omen

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2012, 02:00:33 PM »
So you're going to dismiss your child at hand, as you dismiss people out of hand here, based on a qualification that makes it impossible to determine anything.

What happens when your child learns that the claims the bible makes about history are false?

What happens when your child learns that he/she is an evolved primate?

What will your response be?

I will tell them that GOD will teach them as in the same way He has taught many, including me. By faith.

So you have magical knowledge to disprove evolutionary science and the fact that biblical claims are not supported by the study of history/archaeology?
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline HAL

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2012, 02:10:17 PM »
Everyone - please read and adhere to the latest notice on using nested quotes The use of unnecessary nested quotes clutters up threads and makes looking through them harder.

Just click on the link below. I'd appreciate it -

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,21920.0.html

Thanks.

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2012, 02:10:51 PM »

So you have magical knowledge to disprove evolutionary science and the fact that biblical claims are not supported by the study of history/archaeology?

I'm not trying to disprove evolutionary science nor history/archeology. And I am not educated enough no know every little specific detail  about either of those things and it doesn't bother me anymore.

Offline Traveler

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2012, 02:11:04 PM »
Unanswered curiousity is essentially what turned both my parents away from religion. So god's fear is losing him the battle for souls.  ;D
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline Omen

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2012, 02:14:26 PM »
I'm not trying to disprove evolutionary science nor history/archeology. And I am not educated enough no know every little specific detail  about either of those things and it doesn't bother me anymore.

So you don't care that evidence contradicts your beliefs or could contradict your beliefs?

That isn't supposed to be indoctrination how?

How have we not come full circle to a situation where a child, not understanding your superficial sophistry filled responses, is instead subjugated by your condescending arrogance and social pressure to conform to the only authority figure it knows ( you )?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 02:18:33 PM by Omen »
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline atheola

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2012, 02:29:15 PM »
File a claim with CI&J ILY..God will schedule a court date.. :P
Wait. Here's their number.. 1-900-GODSLAW
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 02:31:47 PM by atheola »
You better believe it's not butter or you'll burn in hell forever and EVER!
Get on your knees right now and thank GOD for not being real!

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2012, 02:40:40 PM »
I don't have a problem with teaching my children about my faith in GOD. I love them the way that I know that GOD loves me. To the best of my understanding. I have never indoctrinated my children. And I want them to grow in faith, just as GOD is teaching me. And I fully trust in Him to do this. So I am not forcing any religion on to my children. But I am passing my faith on to them. As I am responsible as a parent to do this because I love my children and I want the very best for them. I am trusting in GOD. And He is faithful.

Holy crap, I shuddered. He obviously doesn't understand what indoctrination is, I feel so sorry for his children.

And... PREACHING!
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2012, 02:41:57 PM »
I don't have a problem with teaching my children about my faith in GOD. I love them the way that I know that GOD loves me. To the best of my understanding. I have never indoctrinated my children.

So, when they ask for evidence for your religious claims.. you  ...... ?

They won't ask for evidence. Daddy wouldn't lie to them! It is pure indoctrination, and it is disgusting.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline atheola

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2012, 02:52:19 PM »
Make sure to have your knuckle breaker handy for when they forget a verse.
You better believe it's not butter or you'll burn in hell forever and EVER!
Get on your knees right now and thank GOD for not being real!

Offline albeto

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2012, 02:59:41 PM »

First off not all Theists think like this. Not all keep their children from an education.

So what is it you find wrong with me...?

I raise my children to love people. regardless of race, religion or any other reason.

Can you define "love" in this context, please?

I don't have a problem with teaching my children about my faith in GOD. I love them the way that I know that GOD loves me.

Correction, you love them in the way you imagine your god loves you.  There is no other way than through the imagination to "know" this character.  In any case, any time you answer your kids with "I don't know, just trust," then you suppress learning and critical thinking and encourage them to not only embrace blind obedience, but to teach them to suppress themselves as they get older.  This will lend ease to their being manipulated by people who really don't have their best interests in mind. 

So again, how do you measure what is considered good or bad or to base a standard set of morality from...?

Context

It seems as if TV Networks and Corporate America seems as if they know what's best for my child. When in reality, they care about making a profit. Some parents would agree that it is OK for sex, drugs and violence to be suitable for their children. Others see the harm in it. Some don't care that their children engage in sexual activity at early ages, others do. Some parents buy alcohol for their children before the required age. Some see the potential risk in it, some don't see, other don't care.

This is an example of your own blind obedience and refusal to employ critical thinking.  There is no conspiracy to shape the character of your children, you haven't figured out the lie because there is no lie.  Businesses operate in a free market economy based on supply and demand.  American's are eager to purchase certain things, businesses supply them. 


For me, I have every reason to believe that such a GOD exists, for the simple reason that I exist and anything exists at all. Is reason enough for me to pursue this truth. And based upon what I know to be good and true from what is already within me. I can relate to what is taught and why about Jesus Christ. Also by examining my life and the world around me.

Does this mean Odin exists, too?  Because I exist and anything exists at all and lots and lots of people "knew" Odin did as well, they could relate to him and the other Norse Gods very easily.  It was a no-brainer for them, too.  What about Mbobo or Quetzalcoatl?  What about any of the other thousands of gods and goddesses people "knew" existed? 

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2012, 03:07:11 PM »
I don't have a problem with teaching my children about my faith in GOD. I love them the way that I know that GOD loves me. To the best of my understanding. I have never indoctrinated my children.

So, when they ask for evidence for your religious claims.. you  ...... ?

They won't ask for evidence. Daddy wouldn't lie to them! It is pure indoctrination, and it is disgusting.

ILY's kids will do what most of us did once we realized that there was more evidence for Sherlock Holmes, Santa Claus and Tinkerbell than for any particular god. They will try to keep believing, but to no avail, because you can't force yourself to believe something that is just not so. And they will learn to lie to religious people to keep the peace in the family. They will become excellent fake Christians and pretend to believe, while keeping their real thoughts to themselves. Eventually, they will become dismayed and cynical when they discover how easy it is to do. And they may start to suspect that there are a lot of people doing the same thing they are doing.

If they are conformist, they will convince themselves that lying is the path of least resistance and remain fake Christians all their lives. They will be hypocrites, living an unhappy half life, lost even to themselves. :(

If they are strong enough, they might someday acknowledge that they are atheists to themselves and maybe even to those around them. They will become free. We will welcome them to the light. 8)

If they are greedy enough and of a sociopathic bent, they might become televangelists.  :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2012, 07:28:29 PM »

So you don't care that evidence contradicts your beliefs or could contradict your beliefs?
What I care about is when evidence contradicts my beliefs when taken out of context. In which happens all of the time. No, in fact your science doesn't contradict my beliefs. Whether its evolutionary, historically or archaeologically. I see science as mans way of studying and examining GODS creation. When used for and with good intent. Without perversion and malicious intent of what has been already established by GOD. But by no means is it fit to measure GOD. Science can only examine the creation. Science is mans method of trying to understand that of which it does not understand. Then applying that knowledge for useful purposes. But then again, not all knowledge gained is used for and with good intentions. IMO.

Quote
That isn't supposed to be indoctrination how?
Because it's the truth.
GOD reveals Himself by those who put faith in Him. True Faithtm is taught by GOD.

Science is not the same thing and it is taught of men.

Quote
How have we not come full circle to a situation where a child, not understanding your superficial sophistry filled responses, is instead subjugated by your condescending arrogance and social pressure to conform to the only authority figure it knows ( you )?
My children will be fine. After all, GOD is the best (Teacher) story teller there ever was, is, or will be. He is the best at everything.

Offline atheola

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Re: Why would God fear your curiosity?
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2012, 07:36:55 PM »
True Faithtm is a registered trademark now id it? I have true faith my belt is on my pants... who do I owe the licensing fee to?
You better believe it's not butter or you'll burn in hell forever and EVER!
Get on your knees right now and thank GOD for not being real!