I find it odd that you guys find what I am saying is preaching but you yourselves are given a free pass to declare whatever you like as long as it is in opposition towards the Bible.
The difference here is that things that we "declare" correspond beautifully with the world we actually live in, whereas the Bible does not. Our "declarations" have the benefit of evidence, thought, and reason.
Yet you say if it is not scientifically provable, then it must be false.
I think it would be quite difficult for you to find an atheist here who would say that. Instead we would say that "If there is no evidence for something, there is no reason to believe that it is true." This means that an atheists belief state is not fixed in terms of true and false, but open to the explanation that offers the best evidence. If you actually had real, conclusive, irrefutable proof
[1]of God's existence, I think it likely that most of us would believe that he existed. The most important word in this previous sentence is
IF. This has not yet occurred. Additionally, if one could prove that God existed, it would still be a long way to demonstrate that such a deity was worthy of worship or even respect. If it is the god described in the Bible, I would say that he is not worthy of worship, and in fact would require us to take drastic action to ensure his downfall.
But the very Bible you guys reject, teach that the meaning is hidden. And is a mystery. Only to be found in Jesus Christ, being self contained and truthfully exposed in Jesus Christ, whom you reject.
so the Bible is essentially worthless, since it's actual meaning is hidden to those who don't automatically and without question accept its claims are true.
So, is it only fair to say, that you feel this way because you fail to recognize Jesus Christ. Then, you will say that we tried that and it didn't happen.
Many of us have "tried" faith in Jesus, and found it to be entirely ineffective for accomplishing anything at all. Hence, Atheism.
Yet for others they say, it is the absolute truth.
Which it obviously can't be, since it doesn't even accurately describe the "design" of our solar system. An intelligent designer with an autobiography really shouldn't mess that kind of thing up.
That some were indoctrinated, yet others sought for themselves, no indoctrination required.
Those that don't believe that they are indoctrinated are the ones who are the
MOST indoctrinated. Just ask followers of Jim Jones or David Koresh. Oh wait, you can't because they were all so indoctrinated that they are now dead.
So on one hand the Bible is true in that of which it says.
If the meaning is hidden, how can you say what it says is true?? Also, keep in mind that with this one, simple statement, we can justifiably assume many things, for instance that you think bats are birds, you think animal blood cures disease, you believe in talking snakes, you approve of the rape of your enemies children, and you think slavery is a perfectly acceptable human endeavor.
If you fail to recognize Jesus Christ, then you will not recognize the truth hidden within the Bibles pages.
And you wonder why kcrady brings up the Magic Decoder Ring. Jesus Christ.....
That it is purposely taught in parable, so you will hear but not hear. See but not see.
Which, of course, is a TERRIBLE way to ensure that your amazing truth and revelations and good news is spread to as many people as possible. If I had an urgent message for EVERYONE, the most important message EVER, I would make it clear to understand and interpret, instead of saying "die the same day" when I really mean "lose immortality". A perfect God would be capable of nothing less than a perfectly comprehensible and meaningful work. To say that the true meaning is hidden only lends support to the idea that the whole thing is merely a doctrine manufactured by the shepherds to enslave the sheep.
So if you really did as Jesus commanded, then the truth would be revealed.
So, you have sold all of your possessions and given the proceeds to charity? You hate your mother, father, brothers, sisters, children and friends? Unless you have done these things (as Jesus commanded) you are a hypocrite.
Is it any wonder that any of you pick up a Bible and pick away at it looking only for negative intentions...?
Is this an admission that the Bible does in fact contain negative intentions? Would you be any less critical of the Koran or the Norse Eddas?
Is it any wonder that you reject Jesus Christ and come to the conclusion you do...?
Considering the "evidence" offered to us in the Bible, it's the only rational conclusion a sane person can come to.
It even says that you will fail in any other attempt, outside that of which is required. Is it perhaps for this purpose, it is written the way it is written...?
Yes, it's very convenient that the Bible is written the way it is written. "Believe that everything in this book is true and you will be rewarded. Believe it not, and be punished". Exactly the kind of thing power hungry humans would do. Ever heard of a dictatorship?
Even saying it is a double edged sword.
Will the sword coming out of Jesus mouth be double edged?
And none of you can see it.
You're completely correct. We are incapable of observing other people's imaginary friends.
But no.....
We are all indoctrinated and brainwashed.
Most sensible thing you've probably ever posted here.
A mental disease that infects the minds of men...?
don't know if I would consider it a disease, more of a acquired ignorance.
Yet, those who are truly in Christ are liberated and set free from the very things you argue about in the first place.
This would explain why Mother Teresa was full of doubt as to the efficacy of faith. What is it exactly that we are to be liberated and set free from? This may come as a shock to you, but most of us here don't consider "eternal slavery enforced by eternal punishment" to be liberating.
But you don't get it. You don't understand it. It is right within your grasp but you do not wish to take hold of it.
I have no desire to grope Jesus, thanks anyways.
So you would rather spend your time, trying to destroy the faith of others because of your own pride.
Yeah, because Christians have NEVER done such a thing..... In case you haven't noticed, religion is the most potent force for destroying the faith of others because of its own pride. It's even built in to the dogma. If people of faith would act as though what they were doing was actually faith based and not reality based, most of us wouldn't have a problem. yet we encounter folks like you, who KNOW in spite of the fact that faith is not readily compatible with knowledge. If you KNEW, you wouldn't need FAITH.
Is it any wonder that you walked away...? Is it any wonder that you do what you do...?
"GOD isn't real because I can't prove it and I didn't get my way......." "I didn't see a miracle..... so GOD must not be real."
Well, if Elijah is able to test God, and God answers favorably, I don't see why we can't. Perhaps you would like to take the "ignite the offering" test as detailed in 1 Kings:18? You can stand by your offering spewing the typical gibberish, and see how long it takes for it to light. We atheist will be standing by our offering, giving praise to the wonders of science and the beauty of logic, and armed with tools that are actually known to light fires. Let's see if the power of your faith in Jesus is greater than the power of a flamethrower. I should point out though, that unlike God, I am not a primitive, barbaric, vindictive, spoiled dictator, and will not require that you be put to death when you fail this test. A simple admission of error will suffice for me.
Yet Jesus said it is only an adulterous generation that seeks for a sign and none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.
This is of course why Jesus took the time to specify signs of true believers. According to Jesus, you can move mountains. You can even drink poison and handle deadly snakes, and no harm will come to you. If you are not willing to drink a gallon of Drano while sitting in a pit full of black mambas and puff adders, then I submit that you are not a real believer. This is according to your professed savior, Jesus Christ. This demonstrates that, while you say that you believe every word of the Bible, you don't expect the real world to actually operate in the way it describes. You KNOW that if you drink a gallon of Drano whilst handling deadly snakes, harm is in fact VERY likely to come to you. It's pretty pathetic when you have to suspend belief in your own belief system in order to attempt to justify that belief, and then offer as the explanation that it is all part of some hidden truth. Seriously, can you not understand how that sounds completely INSANE to us?
Oh but wait.... that can't be true.... Well, it seems to be true thus far. Have any of you seen a divine miracle lately...? No you haven't.
No, and neither has anyone else. Again, this is contrary to the claims of Jesus, who said that his future followers would do even greater works than he. Jesus supposedly raised the dead and fed thousands of people with practically nothing. Unless you are able to do greater things than this, by a sheer act of willpower, you are not a follower of Jesus, per Jesus.
But you will argue about it 'til your blue in the face. Patting each other on the backs, like you "know". In which you don't, because you can not prove with a 100% accuracy that GOD does or does not exist. Nor can you with an 100% accuracy prove the existence of Jesus Christ.
These are much bigger problems for you than us. You are admitting that you are willing to invest your entire life in a belief that is without any grounds. Who's making the error here? You can't prove with 100% accuracy that dragons don't exist. They are even mentioned in the Bible. So, according to your line of reasoning, the MOST SENSIBLE position to take is that not only that dragons exist, but that there will be dire consequences if you DON'T believe in dragons. Somehow, I am doubtful that this is a position that you occupy.
Yet we have reason to believe a man named Jesus walked this Earth,
Not really. I mean, there could have been a guy named Jesus back then (the Bible mentions two) but saying that he existed does not provide any evidence of his divinity. Plenty of people who have actually existed have claimed to be of divine origin, yet I doubt you would accept such claims at face value. Indeed, I am guessing you would be a vocal critic of any such individual. But you are willing to make an exception for Jesus, because you think that there is
something in it for you.
according to the time of that of The Holy Bible that testifies of this truth.
Just because the Bible says it, doesn't make it true.
He was even written about in other non-secular books that makes mention of His existence.
Well, the Bible writes about the god Baal. Following your "logic", that means that Baal is REAL.
But typically, you try and discredit that as well by saying it was falsified.
The Bible is a hodgepodge of documents written over the course millenia, typically not by the person actually observing the events (who was there to record the Genesis story?!??!). I think a little bit of skepticism is precisely what it deserves. Why does God need so many ghost writers??
There is nothing any of you have said that The Jesus Christ has not brought to light for me and exposed the truth for me or will.
Bold mine. So, what you are admitting is that Jesus has NOT yet done these things for you, at least not to an extent that you feel fully informed. This would lead me to question what actual advantage your faith gives over any of us in matters of Biblical understanding, since you, by your own admission and in spite of your faith, are no nearer the truth than us.
And you falsely accuse GOD.
I have only ever accused God of the things he is described as doing in his autobiography. Unless you are saying God's deeds in the Bible are not an accurate measure of what God does in the Bible. In that case, you would appear to be irrational.
In which you don't even believe. You yourselves willfully will not enter into life but you insist on being a stumbling block to those who are.
This is an incredible statement. It's you religious people that are the stumbling block to life. Religious people invented the stumbling block of life known as the Dark Ages. It's religious people like you who insist on shoving meaningless garbage down children's throats, indoctrinating them into a violent and self perpetuating systematically evil lie. Religion has always hindered human progress and our ability to actually improve the quality of life.
Playing church got frustrating, the burden of religion was to hard. Thank you GOD for sending me Jesus Christ.
Oh, so you are one of those "I have a personal relationship with Jesus, but don't need a church for that" types of people. In other words, you prefer delusions that are unique to yourself, rather than those of an institution. Tell me truly, would you be at all aware of Jesus, if there had never been any churches designed to perpetuate such a myth? Who do you think translated your Bible? How can we KNOW that your version of the Bible is the official one, and not the interpretation presented by any of the thousands of Christian denominations?
