Author Topic: Reinterpreting the bible  (Read 1520 times)

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Offline kymer

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2012, 03:19:32 PM »
stop shouting. It's rude.

I wasn't shouting.

Offline kymer

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2012, 03:24:54 PM »
Seppuku...

It could theoretically be multiple gods from an older religion. In fact that's just exactly what it may be after all. However, there are accounts in the bible of events that some have likened to nuclear bombs, and the after effects of a nuclear weapon being used (for example the effects of radiation). You have to consider that if something like that occurred at a time when the language to accurately describe it didn't exist as it does now, the descriptions would have to have been conjured using whatever means available at the time, hence the way they sound.

Offline Omen

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2012, 03:47:45 PM »
It could theo..

What if the book green eggs and ham is really an explanatory means of detailing quantum physics?

Why would you bother to interpret it to mean anything else?

By what method would you do so that is separable from just randomly making it up?
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline ungod

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2012, 03:50:57 PM »
Seppuku...

It could theoretically be multiple gods from an older religion. In fact that's just exactly what it may be after all. However, there are accounts in the bible of events that some have likened to nuclear bombs, and the after effects of a nuclear weapon being used (for example the effects of radiation). You have to consider that if something like that occurred at a time when the language to accurately describe it didn't exist as it does now, the descriptions would have to have been conjured using whatever means available at the time, hence the way they sound.

Gee, a rational person would expect that the residual radiation from a nuclear weapon detonated in the Middle East in Biblical times would have been detected by now. Of course, a silly atheist like me would have overlooked the possibility that God miraculously caused the fallout to disappear.   ;) ;D :P
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Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2012, 03:55:33 PM »
I find it odd that you guys find what I am saying is preaching but you yourselves are given a free pass to declare whatever you like as long as it is in opposition towards the Bible.

Yet you say if it is not scientifically provable, then it must be false.

But the very Bible you guys reject, teach that the meaning is hidden. And is a mystery. Only to be found in Jesus Christ, being self contained and truthfully exposed in Jesus Christ, whom you reject. So, is it only fair to say, that you feel this way because you fail to recognize Jesus Christ. Then, you will say that we tried that and it didn't happen. Yet for others they say, it is the absolute truth.

That some were indoctrinated, yet others sought for themselves, no indoctrination required.

So on one hand the Bible is true in that of which it says. If you fail to recognize Jesus Christ, then you will not recognize the truth hidden within the Bibles pages. That it is purposely taught in parable, so you will hear but not hear. See but not see.

So if you really did as Jesus commanded, then the truth would be revealed. Is it any wonder that any of you pick up a Bible and pick away at it looking only for negative intentions...? Is it any wonder that you reject Jesus Christ and come to the conclusion you do...?

It even says that you will fail in any other attempt, outside that of which is required. Is it perhaps for this purpose, it is written the way it is written...? Even saying it is a double edged sword.

And none of you can see it.

But no.....
We are all indoctrinated and brainwashed. A mental disease that infects the minds of men...? Yet, those who are truly in Christ are liberated and set free from the very things you argue about in the first place. But you don't get it. You don't understand it. It is right within your grasp but you do not wish to take hold of it.

So you would rather spend your time, trying to destroy the faith of others because of your own pride. Is it any wonder that you walked away...? Is it any wonder that you do what you do...?

"GOD isn't real because I can't prove it and I didn't get my way......." "I didn't see a miracle..... so GOD must not be real."

Yet Jesus said it is only an adulterous generation that seeks for a sign and none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.

Oh but wait.... that can't be true.... Well, it seems to be true thus far. Have any of you seen a divine miracle lately...? No you haven't.

But you will argue about it 'til your blue in the face. Patting each other on the backs, like you "know". In which you don't, because you can not prove with a 100% accuracy that GOD does or does not exist. Nor can you with an 100% accuracy prove the existence of Jesus Christ. Yet we have reason to believe a man named Jesus walked this Earth, according to the time of that of The Holy Bible that testifies of this truth. He was even written about in other non-secular books that makes mention of His existence. But typically, you try and discredit that as well by saying it was falsified.

There is nothing any of you have said that The Jesus Christ has not brought to light for me and exposed the truth for me or will.

And you falsely accuse GOD. In which you don't even believe. You yourselves willfully will not enter into life but you insist on being a stumbling block to those who are.




Playing church got frustrating, the burden of religion was to hard. Thank you GOD for sending me Jesus Christ.









Offline Omen

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2012, 04:01:59 PM »
I find it odd that you guys find what I am saying is preaching but you yourselves are given a free pass to declare whatever you like as long as it is in opposition towards the Bible.

Because we actually make arguments, that follow from premises into conclusions.

You don't make arguments, you just blindly make crap up left and right.

Quote
Yet you say if it is not scientifically provable, then it must be false.

Who ever made this statement?

Quote
But the very Bible you guys reject, teach that the meaning is hidden

Back to fallacies.

This is called special pleading.  Special pleading is a type of fallacy where you try to insert an unexplained qualification as if your claim required special consideration.  It is a fallacy because no attempt is made to qualify or explain why that specially pleaded exception is relevant.

Quote
That some were indoctrinated, yet others sought for themselves, no indoctrination required.

Indoctrination implies exactly what you exhibit, your claims are disconnected from any rationale and you make no attempt to explain yourself.  All you are capable of doing is just mindlessly repeating the dogma you were indoctrinated with.  You make appeals to ignorance and use equivocation when you don't want to be responsible for what you make up.

Quote
So on..

And absolutely nothing.  So on what?  What is your premise? How did you arrive to this conclusion? What evidence do you have?  What kind of hermeneutic are you using? Do you even know what a hermeneutic is?  How is it valid?  Why should anyone believe any assertion you make?  What about biblical contradictions that have been listed for you ad nauseum?  What about evidence that contradicts biblical claims?

Start from A, move to B, and conclude up C.  If a lends itself to b and b follows into C, you'll be taken seriously.

How hard is that?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 04:04:04 PM by Omen »
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Offline kymer

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2012, 04:10:14 PM »
ILOVEYOU...

If you keep saying or implying that people here should accept Jesus, or that they should do anything, your posts are going to keep getting removed. Your posts are long, and I know if it was me I'd get really frustrated at seeing something that I spent ages writing just disappear moments later.

If you want to get anyone here to reconsider their views, think about this :

It's an online forum. No one sees each other, it's easy not to care, and it's easy to dismiss.

99% of members are atheists, and you should know that when people with the same view are together, the focus is generally not on challenging their views, rather it's on cementing them. I'm sure it's the same on christian forums, I'm sure it's the same anywhere, no matter what the subject. Even the pettiest of subjects.

It's a club. You're not in it. Neither am I to be honest and that should give you an idea of how hard a time you, a theist will have if your views go against the norm.


I just don't think it's a good idea to try and change anyone's mind. But I can tell that you're bright and you know what you're on about, it's just that you're in the wrong place, unless you're willing to stay away from the so called "preaching" and maybe talk about something else for a while. Your "preaching" doesn't bother me at all because I can see that you feel strongly about your views, and judging by the way so many religious people are similar to you, I would bet that I too would be tempted to try and get others to accept the "word". It's just unfortunate for you that it's simply never going to happen here. so just ease up a bit. But if you want to talk about your views with me, as long as you are careful not to "preach" (not that I mind, but the forum is for everyone), you're welcome to.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 04:11:46 PM by kymer »

Offline Omen

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2012, 04:15:50 PM »
99% of members are atheists, and you should know that when people with the same view are together, the focus is generally not on challenging their views, rather it's on cementing them.

You'll find more people here willing to have their views challenged then you will on a christian forum.  If you think you have some kind of 'challenging' argument, please present it.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline Historicity

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2012, 04:47:52 PM »
And is a mystery. Only to be found in Jesus Christ, being self contained and truthfully exposed in Jesus Christ, whom you reject.
...
That some were indoctrinated, yet others sought for themselves, no indoctrination required.
...
That it is purposely taught in parable, so you will hear but not hear. See but not see.
...
It even says that you will fail in any other attempt, outside that of which is required. Is it perhaps for this purpose, it is written the way it is written...? Even saying it is a double edged sword.
...
Yet, those who are truly in Christ are liberated and set free from the very things you argue about in the first place.

You really are losing it.  You are gibbering.


Offline kymer

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2012, 05:23:50 PM »

You'll find more people here willing to have their views challenged then you will on a christian forum.

But I wasn't talking about christian forums.

Offline Asmoday

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2012, 05:38:31 PM »
But I wasn't talking about christian forums.
For anyone who spends some time here it becomes obvious that this is not really the case here. You can come to this site and proclaim you are an atheist as much as you want but if your arguments are faulty, you will be corrected just as much as a theist would.

The problem that ILY faces is not primarily that he is a theist and that his point of view goes against the mainstream here. His problem is that he is often times simply preaching without any kind of concrete content in the whole wall of text he has posted.

We already have had theists here that we all got along well with. OldChurchGuy for example. And I'd like to make it clear that those theists did not hide their belief and also did not suck up to any of us here.
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Offline kymer

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2012, 05:44:24 PM »
For anyone who spends some time here it becomes obvious that this is not really the case here. You can come to this site and proclaim you are an atheist as much as you want but if your arguments are faulty, you will be corrected just as much as a theist would.

The problem that ILY faces is not primarily that he is a theist and that his point of view goes against the mainstream here. His problem is that he is often times simply preaching without any kind of concrete content in the whole wall of text he has posted.


Even though I'm an atheist I personally don't mind the preaching to be honest. But I do respect the fact that many do have a problem with it. You sound like a very fair person, which I like, judging by what you say about atheists and theists being treated equally in terms of calling them out if their arguments are faulty.  :)

Offline Omen

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2012, 06:29:59 PM »

You'll find more people here willing to have their views challenged then you will on a christian forum.

But I wasn't talking about christian forums.

Irrelevant.

The claim can be extended to most christians and theist.  A religion, being inherently incapable of validating the merits of its own claims through objective rationale will have no choice but to promote itself with authoritarian values.  Hence the typical and predictable tendency for religious apologist to misinform, censor, and indoctrinate.

ILY is an excellent example of this sort of anti-intellectualism promoted by religious belief, it approaches a level of mental instability similar to delusion.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 06:31:53 PM by Omen »
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Offline Omen

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2012, 06:33:29 PM »
I also haven't forgotten that you haven't answered the questions that pertain to the OP of this thread you started:

What if the book green eggs and ham is really an explanatory means of detailing quantum physics?

Why would you bother to interpret it to mean anything else?

By what method would you do so that is separable from just randomly making it up?
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2012, 06:34:02 PM »
Anybody can hypothesize anything,bring some evidence or facts,based in reality,not story......we can then get started on a theory
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Offline kymer

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2012, 06:37:36 PM »
I also haven't forgotten that you haven't answered the questions that pertain to the OP of this thread you started:

What if the book green eggs and ham is really an explanatory means of detailing quantum physics?

Why would you bother to interpret it to mean anything else?

By what method would you do so that is separable from just randomly making it up?

I believe that's the 6th time you've posted the same thing. Yes, I'm keeping count, because as soon as you reach 100, you win a mystery prize.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2012, 06:39:00 PM »
And is a mystery. Only to be found in Jesus Christ, being self contained and truthfully exposed in Jesus Christ, whom you reject.
...
That some were indoctrinated, yet others sought for themselves, no indoctrination required.
...
That it is purposely taught in parable, so you will hear but not hear. See but not see.
...
It even says that you will fail in any other attempt, outside that of which is required. Is it perhaps for this purpose, it is written the way it is written...? Even saying it is a double edged sword.
...
Yet, those who are truly in Christ are liberated and set free from the very things you argue about in the first place.

You really are losing it.  You are gibbering.
like Doug Stanhope says if you were 18 and found the Bible in a used book store you would never buy into it

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Offline Omen

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2012, 06:43:22 PM »
I believe that's the 6th time you've posted the same thing. Yes, I'm keeping count, because as soon as you reach 100, you win a mystery prize.

And you're not answering precisely because they undermine what you claim to an embarrassing degree, if not.. just give an answer:

What if the book green eggs and ham is really an explanatory means of detailing quantum physics?

Why would you bother to interpret it to mean anything else?

By what method would you do so that is separable from just randomly making it up?
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline kcrady

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2012, 08:01:09 PM »
Shorter ILY screed:

"I've got a Jesus Magic Decoder Ringtm and you don't, so that means I'm a special little snowflake and you're not!  So there!  Nyah nyah nyah nya nyaaaaah nyaaaah!" *sticks out tongue*

The reason we don't accept preaching around here isn't because it's so awesome that OMG, MAKE IT STOP BEFORE THE SCALES FALL OFF MY EYES, HEEELLLP, I'M MEEELLLLLLTIIIIIING!, it's because it's nothing but content-free Spam For Jesus.  It's ad copy.  We don't need to see the ads.  We want to examine the product--IOW, any evidence you might have that your god is actually real.  Reality matters to us.  Does it matter to you?  If you would actually do what the Bible says:

Quote
But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect...

--I Peter 3:14-16, NIV

you would get a lot more respect, and your posts wouldn't be deleted.
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Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #48 on: March 25, 2012, 10:22:42 PM »
<snip>

Hello kcrady. I see that you brought out the "secret decoder ring" bit. Charming....

So you have come to the conclusion that GOD is not real. How is it that you determined this...? You seem very well read.

Any particular religion you were indoctrinated in or believed by association...?





Offline Omen

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2012, 11:04:11 PM »
Hello kcrady. I see that you brought out the "secret decoder ring" bit. Charming...

It is also accurate.

I don't ask you how you tell the difference between you being mentally ill ( insane ) and your personal religious convictions to be mean, I'm being serious.  To an outside observer you present no reason to be believed nor seem to even care, your claims cannot be differentiated from those of someone who is mentally ill, the religious claims of another person ( of a completely different religion ), and you don't present any conditional attributes that would allow one to separate a possible existence where your god exists from one where it doesn't exist.
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Offline kcrady

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2012, 01:09:12 AM »
<snip>

Dunno why you'd "quote" me, but snip it all out.  Sorta defeats the purpose, don't you think? ;)

Hello kcrady. I see that you brought out the "secret decoder ring" bit. Charming....

As Omen said, it's also accurate.  Each one of you comes in here with your own personal, idiosyncratic beliefs, assured that you've got it right and that things will Go Badly For Us if we don't believe what we are told, but you can't get your story straight amongst yourselves.  You never have, all the way back to the earliest Christian writings, which are riddled with contentious arguments against other Christians, e.g. Paul vs. the Judaizers, Gnostics vs. Judaizers and proto-"orthodox" and so on.  Hence, the "magic decoder ring" as the metaphor for whatever it is that assures each one of you that you are one of the few, the proud, the Real, True Christianstm rather than all those other sods.

So you have come to the conclusion that GOD is not real. How is it that you determined this...? You seem very well read.

Before I answer this, there's one thing I'd like to know about you: If your beliefs were false, would you want to know?[1]  Your honest answer to this will help me determine how much time to invest in an answer to your question.  If you don't actually want to know reasons not to believe in god and would willfully ignore them if presented, I would be better off in terms of the use of my time if I provided a brief, rather than detailed response.   

Or we could go about this in another way: we don't actually have to debate this issue at all.  All we have to do is come to agreement on some test or observation that has not already been done, set up in such a way that if the results go one way, you'll agree in advance to admit that you are wrong about your beliefs, and if they go another way, I'll agree in advance to admit that I'm wrong about mine.  We can let reality decide, so that bias or stubbornness on either or both of our parts is rendered moot.  So whaddaya say, would you like to try this latter approach?

Any particular religion you were indoctrinated in or believed by association...?

Relevance?
 1. My own answer to this question is an emphatic yes.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 01:12:31 AM by kcrady »
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #51 on: March 26, 2012, 01:56:45 AM »
  Fermi's Paradox is evidence that even robotic interstellar probes are exceedingly rare or non-existent.

Fermi's paradox was resolved, but nobody noticed. If the speed of light cannot be broken, then the civilizations around us just slow their planetary time down, so they can explore and trade at light-speed. This takes quite a long time. It's like another "singularity", where a civilization uses the billions of years in the future to live a fairly short time.

I strive for clarity, but aim for confusion.

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #52 on: March 26, 2012, 01:59:42 AM »
I find it odd that you guys find what I am saying is preaching but you yourselves are given a free pass to declare whatever you like as long as it is in opposition towards the Bible.

Well, even you say the bible is mostly crap.

You have decided that Jesus is in your life, and since the Bible mentions "Jesus", it must be the same Jesus that you have in your life. You then reverse engineer the bible to find small parts of it that you agree with, and can't for the life of you see why other people would find that wrong-headed.

I strive for clarity, but aim for confusion.

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #53 on: March 26, 2012, 02:00:39 AM »
I strive for clarity, but aim for confusion.

Offline caveat_imperator

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #54 on: March 26, 2012, 02:29:39 AM »
Dunno why you'd "quote" me, but snip it all out.  Sorta defeats the purpose, don't you think? ;)
If he didn't delete what you posted then others would sooner be able to see if his reply had little or nothing to do with what you wrote.
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Offline rickymooston

Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #55 on: March 26, 2012, 06:42:03 AM »
Almost everyone seems to be in "debunk" mode, almost by reflex, which is a shame as it misses the point that I already made. I have to stress once again that this thread is about the possibility that the bible's theme is aliens rather than about a deity.

Chariots of the God's.
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Offline rickymooston

Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #56 on: March 26, 2012, 06:44:00 AM »
What if the book green eggs and ham is really an explanatory means of detailing quantum physics?

Nice try Sherlock. It's explaining string theory.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2012, 06:59:08 AM »

What if the book green eggs and ham is really an explanatory means of detailing quantum physics?

Why would you bother to interpret it to mean anything else?

By what method would you do so that is separable from just randomly making it up?

I believe that's the 6th time you've posted the same thing. Yes, I'm keeping count, because as soon as you reach 100, you win a mystery prize.
Kymer,

Instead of giving objectionable, smart-arse non-answers, please address and answer Omen's question in your next post.

GB Mod
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce