Author Topic: Reinterpreting the bible  (Read 1417 times)

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Offline kymer

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Reinterpreting the bible
« on: March 25, 2012, 08:37:32 AM »
There are a lot of discussions about whether or not the god of the bible exists, or whether or not the stories in the bible are true. But what if the entire bible is not supposed to be what most of us believe it is supposed to be?

For example, god refers to himself in the plural. What if it is not the so called royal "we" and instead it is literally referring to many "gods"? I'm sure we've all come across legends about aliens coming to earth a long time ago.

Some people have propsed that the bible isn't the story of god the deity, but of aliens who came to earth, with technology that was so superior that they were considered gods. Some have said that the descriptions of events were not descriptions of supernatural goings on but rather descriptions of things like nuclear weapons and flying machines (UFOs), but described in the language of those at the time, who had no comprehension of what they were witnessing and thus could only use the limited language that they had.

I'm not saying that this is what actually happened because I don't know, however what I am proposing is that perhaps the bible is not about god the deity. Perhaps the bible is about alien visitations long ago, although whether or not there's any truth to it is another matter.

Offline One Above All

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2012, 08:41:13 AM »
What the Bible is about is irrelevant. What's relevant is that it's wrong.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Eaten by Bears

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2012, 08:43:02 AM »
It would certainly make more sense. But given the available evidence it is still wildly improbable, even if it's easy to read spaceships and alien intervention into some of the more fanciful passages.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2012, 08:43:49 AM »
Sorry, but this can't be true for the same reason that the more traditional God fable can't be true. No evidence and no independent verification. It also says God created us, not just visited us. I get where you're going with this, but that would only raise more questions and cause more logical problems.

Nope, it's just a creation story made up by cavemen. Nothing more.
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Offline kymer

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2012, 08:47:43 AM »
Joebbowers, it has also been suggested that the aliens genetically modifed ("Let us make man in our image")
/ bred with ("The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown".) the humans who were around at the time .

Offline One Above All

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2012, 08:56:40 AM »
Joebbowers, it has also been suggested that <snip>

It has also been suggested that we're actually living in the Matrix. It has also been suggested that schizophrenics are actually possessed. It has also been suggested that illness is caused by bad karma. What's your point?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Historicity

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2012, 09:05:22 AM »
For example, god refers to himself in the plural.
Jewish theology is that Jehovah was giving us his cross talk with the angels he has flocking around.

Offline sun_king

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2012, 09:30:19 AM »
Gollum referred to himself in the plural.

Aliens visited earth and the best their great technology could come up with is the 10 Commandments? Aliens had a problem with humans working on Sundays? Aliens told Noah to build a medium sized ark with no propulsion? Aliens were anti-gay? Advanced technology aliens had to make it rain to eliminate all life on earth?

Nice try, kymer. Or Kramer?


Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2012, 09:32:20 AM »
So now we we're gonna have to start carbon dating flying saucers? This is getting too complicated.
Never trust an atom. They make up everything!

Offline kymer

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2012, 09:33:44 AM »
It's kymer, sunking.

Offline Historicity

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2012, 09:47:49 AM »
Kymer's conjecture does have evidence but it is rational rather than empirical evidence.

We know that intelligent beings exist.
We know that such beings can not only master mechanical engineering but subtle invisible forces like electricity. 
We know that much of that reproduces the alleged phenomena of magic.[1]
We know that such beings can master flight in a variety of ways, including interplanetary flight.
We play the music, tell the stories, reproduce the artwork and extol the virtues of primitive societies we mopped up.  We are a bit sad we absorbed them so quickly.
We have some conjectures, not proven, but compatible with scientific knowledge that faster-than-light flight might be done.

Simply, we know these things because we have already done them.  Except for that last one there.

We have probabilistic conjectures that planetary life may exist elsewhere and last long enough to have a species with the above characteristics.

Given all these knowns we have not inconsiderable Occam weight[2] on this. 

But as the Greeks put it, on the other hand[3]...

We have seen earthsized planets in stellar systems that did not have a jupiter anchoring them.  That is, Jupiter is so huge that it takes up 71% of the mass of the solar planets.  Saturn takes up 21%.  Earth .3%.  All the planets have to be losing orbital velocity from interstellar hydrogen.   This happens in proportion of mass to crosssectional area.  Jupiter slows the least.  Each time Earth passes Jupiter it gets an upward tug that counteracts that.  So we have detected at least one solar system where an earthsized planet has drifted downwards till it is hot as our Mercury.  Microbial life may have arisen but it is gone now. One of our knowns is that a planet must have a stable environment for 4 or 5 billion years for life like us to arise.  There won't be many.

We also treat space flight as an extension of sailing.  But what does that cost?  People have taken a rowboat across the Atlantic a few times.  Sailing is dirt cheap.  Unless interstellar flight can be discovered to be that cheap it's not going to happen except as an experiment.   It's fun to pretend that an anachronism like stem bolts will be valuable to ship but think of it, with the technology of the Star Trek future they could manufacture anything at all in a local solar system. 

I've spent enough time and space on this post.  I'm sure you can all come up with other realistic improbabilities that way against ancient contacts.
 1. I prefer a palantirWiki with a QWERTY keyboard and a mouse rather than a touch crystal.
 2. My coining
 3. No joke.  That is an ancient Greek figure of speech.

Offline kcrady

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2012, 10:23:12 AM »
Joebbowers, it has also been suggested that the aliens genetically modifed ("Let us make man in our image")
/ bred with ("The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown".) the humans who were around at the time .

This is exceedingly unlikely.  Beings from another solar system would have an entirely different evolutionary heritage than humans (or Neandertals or whatever hominids the "Nephilim"/"Annunaki" supposedly tinkered with).  It would be easier for you to produce a hybrid with a Dutch Elm tree than with an alien.  Aliens whose genetic engineering technology was sufficient to make such hybridization possible would have an easier time synthesizing viable embryos for their own species from scratch.  The idea that they'd cross-breed with us to save their "dying race" is pure bunkum. 

In addition, any extraterrestrial vessel that reached our solar system is far more likely to be robotic than attempt to carry fragile live alien meat on a decades-long (or centuries-long) journey across the void of interstellar space.  We have already replaced human crews with robot probes and rovers for all long-range space missions, and our robotics and computer technology is still fairly primitive (but advancing rapidly).  Since machines get better with technological advancement and astronauts don't,[1] it is a safe bet that machines, not biological beings, will be the only interstellar travelers.  Fermi's Paradox is evidence that even robotic interstellar probes are exceedingly rare or non-existent.

A far more parsimonious explanation for myths of deities mating with humans is that they were very useful stories for those who told them.  Kings could claim divine descent and thus legitimize their rule.  Women pregnant out of wedlock could blame it on a randy god in hopes that her child could grow up to be a renowned hero instead of a shamed bastard.  Bards and storytellers could do well by spreading tales of romance between humans and superhuman beings, as their successors (e.g. Stephanie Meyer) could tell you.

In addition, such stories would have an experiential basis (for humans without any knowledge of neurology or psychology) in things like "wet dreams" and "night hag" hypnogogic dreams.  No appeal to aliens or supernatural entities is necessary.
 1. Machines also have many other advantages, such as not needing lots of heavy radiation shielding, life support systems, supplies of food, air and water, privacy, open spaces and so on.
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Offline Omen

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2012, 10:31:29 AM »
But what if the entire bible is not supposed to be what most of us believe it is supposed to be?

What if the book green eggs and ham is really an explanatory means of detailing quantum physics?

Why would you bother to interpret it to mean anything else?

By what method would you do so that is separable from just randomly making it up?
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2012, 10:38:10 AM »
Since kymer lives in the UK, this post probably means that the History Channel is available there too.

Poor bastards.
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Offline kymer

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2012, 10:53:33 AM »
Almost everyone seems to be in "debunk" mode, almost by reflex, which is a shame as it misses the point that I already made. I have to stress once again that this thread is about the possibility that the bible's theme is aliens rather than about a deity.

Offline Omen

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2012, 10:55:09 AM »
Almost everyone seems to be in "debunk" mode, almost by reflex, which is a shame as it misses the point that I already made. I have to stress once again that this thread is about the possibility that the bible's theme is aliens rather than about a deity.

Then answer the questions that pertain directly to the possibility of what you're claiming:

What if the book green eggs and ham is really an explanatory means of detailing quantum physics?

Why would you bother to interpret it to mean anything else?

By what method would you do so that is separable from just randomly making it up?
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Offline kcrady

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2012, 11:15:48 AM »
Kymer, if you're going to post bunk, don't be surprised if your posts get de-bunked.  That's kinda what we do 'round here.  Critical thinking services, offered free of charge.
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Offline kymer

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2012, 11:23:50 AM »
That's kinda what we do 'round here.

IT'S COMMENDABLE THAT YOU'RE INTO WEEDING OUT MYTHS, BUT TO DO SO BY REFLEX WHEN IT'S NOT THE PURPOSE OF THE THREAD IS TO COMPLETELY MISS THE POINT. BUT IT'S GOOD TO KNOW THAT YOU'RE SO ENTHUSIASTIC, JUST BEAR IN MIND THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING WHETHER THE THEME OF THE BIBLE IS ALIENS OR A DEITY. SORRY CAPS LOCK STUCK AGAIN.

Offline Omen

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2012, 11:25:00 AM »
IT'S COMMENDABLE THAT YOU'RE INTO WEEDING OUT MYTHS, BUT TO DO SO BY REFLEX WHEN IT'S NOT THE PURPOSE OF THE THREAD IS

Your claim is no different than myth.

So, if you will, please answer these questions that pertain directly to your own claims so far:

What if the book green eggs and ham is really an explanatory means of detailing quantum physics?

Why would you bother to interpret it to mean anything else?

By what method would you do so that is separable from just randomly making it up?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 11:30:30 AM by Omen »
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Offline Traveler

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2012, 11:30:12 AM »
Sorry, kymer, but the fact that the bible is full of ridiculous contradictions (in the 100s, if not more), and that its violent at best, and hateful, and the nice bits are readily available in other philosophical works (and in common sense) ... I sincerely don't care whether it was written about aliens or about gods. I won't read it again. I won't give it any further consideration. Its crap literature, with a few nicely poetic bits to give people something to hang their hats on. It's simply not worth my time.
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Offline kymer

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2012, 11:33:49 AM »
I won't read it again. I won't give it any further consideration.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU'RE THIS UPSET OVER A WORK OF FICTION. ALL I'M SUGGESTING IS THAT IT MAY BE ABOUT SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TO WHAT PEOPLE GENERALLY THINK IT'S ABOUT. IF IT'S NOT ABOUT A DEITY, THEN PERHAPS THEY AREN'T CONTRADICTIONS WHEN LOOKED AT IN A TOTALLY DIFFERENT WAY. YOU'RE BASING YOUR FEELINGS ON WHAT YOU THINK IT'S ABOUT BUT IF IT'S ALL ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE ENTIRELY THEN THERE'S NO NEED.

Offline Omen

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2012, 11:35:12 AM »
ALL I'M SUGGESTING IS THAT IT MAY BE ABOUT SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TO WHAT PEOPLE GENERALLY THINK IT'S ABOUT..

Great, then answer the questions that pertain to how one would determine the reasoning to do so:

What if the book green eggs and ham is really an explanatory means of detailing quantum physics?

Why would you bother to interpret it to mean anything else?

By what method would you do so that is separable from just randomly making it up?
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Offline sun_king

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2012, 12:13:16 PM »
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU'RE THIS UPSET OVER A WORK OF FICTION.

Finally you understood what it really is? Or it is your other half speaking?

PS: Kramer is a character in a sitcom who usually comes up with harebrained schemes and bizarre ideas.

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2012, 12:23:31 PM »
<snip>

Removed for preaching. Which is exactly what you are doing ILY and you know this. You have been lectured on it before.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 02:13:30 PM by Alzael »

Offline Seppuku

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2012, 12:36:47 PM »
Quote from: Kymer
For example, god refers to himself in the plural. What if it is not the so called royal "we" and instead it is literally referring to many "gods"? I'm sure we've all come across legends about aliens coming to earth a long time ago.

It could well be he's referring to multiple gods. Just look at the Canaanite religion, one of their gods is called Yahweh (another name for the God found in Judaism, Christianity and Islam). Interesting Baal is another god, which is referred to in The Book of Kings.

It wouldn't surprise me if this way just a branch from an older religion. You can see other parallels from the time, for example in Ancient Mesopotamia you've got a recording of a story called 'The Epic of Gilgamesh', who was a king who existed much earlier than when this text was recorded. The story has Gilgamesh encounter a man by the name of 'Utnapishtim', who knows a secret of the gods and that's they tried to flood the world, for man was too evil, but one of the gods came to Utnapishtim and asked him to build an ark of certain proportions (in the same manner Noah is told) and is expecting the collect the seeds of all life, which could be interpreted as mating pairs. And as the gods flooded the world hope was not lost. There's also another version of this story, but Utnapishtim goes by the name of Atrahasis, but both stories are of the same origin and the gods involved are the same. An interesting observation I read up was in my copy of Myths from Mesopotamia. The abbreviation of 'Utnapishtim' is 'Na'ish' and the old Palestinian pronunciation of it is 'Noah'.

Given the similarities between the stories and the Mesopotamian ones being older, I'd probably go as far to say, the bible plagiarises it. What also interests me is the connection between the Ugaritic, Kothar-wa-hasis (god of craftsmanship) or as referred to when referred to the Canaanite religion, Kothar-wa-Khasis as both use the same epithet.


So...the connection between the bible, the Canaanite religion and the Mesopotamian religion are rather eerie. So instead of taking the alien route, you could well reinterpret the bible as it being an arm of a polytheistic religion and Yahweh isn't the creator god, but one of many.

However, the creation story in Mesopotamia is very different...it's actually a lot closer to the Old Norse, which is kind of weird.

[edit]
corrected my source.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 12:40:02 PM by Seppuku »
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Offline kcrady

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2012, 01:01:00 PM »
That's kinda what we do 'round here.

IT'S COMMENDABLE THAT YOU'RE INTO WEEDING OUT MYTHS, BUT TO DO SO BY REFLEX WHEN IT'S NOT THE PURPOSE OF THE THREAD IS TO COMPLETELY MISS THE POINT. BUT IT'S GOOD TO KNOW THAT YOU'RE SO ENTHUSIASTIC, JUST BEAR IN MIND THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING WHETHER THE THEME OF THE BIBLE IS ALIENS OR A DEITY. SORRY CAPS LOCK STUCK AGAIN.

OK. 

The Pointtm: Could the Bible be about aliens instead of a deity?

Answer: Nope.

Simple enough for ya, Mr. Caps Lock?
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Offline Tero

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2012, 01:42:55 PM »
These rules  and explanations had some meaning in the culture, language and time they came from.

Applied to stem cell research, bible rules are ridiculous.

Offline Traveler

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2012, 02:28:32 PM »
I won't read it again. I won't give it any further consideration.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU'RE THIS UPSET OVER A WORK OF FICTION...

LOL. I never said I was upset. I said it wasn't worth my time. There is a huge difference. And stop shouting. It's rude.
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Offline ungod

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Re: Reinterpreting the bible
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2012, 03:06:06 PM »
That's kinda what we do 'round here.

IT'S COMMENDABLE THAT YOU'RE INTO WEEDING OUT MYTHS, BUT TO DO SO BY REFLEX WHEN IT'S NOT THE PURPOSE OF THE THREAD IS TO COMPLETELY MISS THE POINT. BUT IT'S GOOD TO KNOW THAT YOU'RE SO ENTHUSIASTIC, JUST BEAR IN MIND THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING WHETHER THE THEME OF THE BIBLE IS ALIENS OR A DEITY. SORRY CAPS LOCK STUCK AGAIN.

What if it wuz written by J.K. Rowland using a time machine? GASP! YES! THAT MUST BE IT!
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