Author Topic: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions  (Read 1665 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline atheola

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1288
  • Darwins +28/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • Hospitals suck past an hour.
just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« on: March 24, 2012, 11:25:35 AM »
I have wondered about this for some time so has there ever been some thesis drop in here hell bent on setting us heathen bastards straight, bible quotes in hand then argued non-stop for months on end rooting for god secretly to smite is all in one fell swoop then one day just dramatically change course then announced to the forum, "You know what?  You're right. There is no god and I've been full of shit all along."
Has that ever happened?  :?
You better believe it's not butter or you'll burn in hell forever and EVER!
Get on your knees right now and thank GOD for not being real!

Offline One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10926
  • Darwins +284/-37
  • Gender: Male
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2012, 11:27:36 AM »
Yes, there have been atheists who supposedly became believers[1], but only after a traumatic event, AFAIK. Not even atheists are exempt from the irrationality caused by emotions.
 1. And I mean believers; not those who go to church, et cetera because of their partners.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline atheola

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1288
  • Darwins +28/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • Hospitals suck past an hour.
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2012, 11:37:37 AM »
Errr. Lucy..you got it kinda backward.. I meant Lucifer! LUCIFER! Freudian slip..
You better believe it's not butter or you'll burn in hell forever and EVER!
Get on your knees right now and thank GOD for not being real!

Offline One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10926
  • Darwins +284/-37
  • Gender: Male
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2012, 11:44:23 AM »
Errr. Lucy..you got it kinda backward.. I meant Lucifer! LUCIFER! Freudian slip..

I thought the opposite was kinda obvious. Were you always an atheist?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Historicity

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2350
  • Darwins +80/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • (Rama, avatar of Vishnu)
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 12:12:27 PM »
Augusto changed his opinion in a week.

Augusto had annoying characteristics but he has a virtue of intellectual boldness.

Offline Bad Pear

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
  • Darwins +16/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Observations from one bad fruit to the bunch.
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 12:13:39 PM »
I came to this very forum (well, in it's old incarnation) as a full blown right wing fundie nutjob back in 2008. My old name was El Pucko, so feel free to read my insanity in the archives. Frankly the members of this blog (or former members) shed light on things that I had never thought about before. One thing led to another and you have the extremely progressive liberal atheist that you're talking to today.

I take solace in the fact that once I actually started to think and learn my de-conversion didn't take long.
Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions implode, atheism is what is left behind

Offline atheola

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1288
  • Darwins +28/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • Hospitals suck past an hour.
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2012, 04:52:29 PM »
Good to know people do change.
welcome to the most despised group in America today BP and those initials help keep you in the running. :D

Lucifer..pretty much....there were a few times I wanted to believe in the boogieman, especially about 3, but thank god the bathroom was just down the hallway.  ;)
You better believe it's not butter or you'll burn in hell forever and EVER!
Get on your knees right now and thank GOD for not being real!

Offline pianodwarf

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 4363
  • Darwins +208/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Je bois ton lait frappĂ©
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2012, 05:39:47 PM »
I have wondered about this for some time so has there ever been some thesis drop in here hell bent on setting us heathen bastards straight, bible quotes in hand then argued non-stop for months on end rooting for god secretly to smite is all in one fell swoop then one day just dramatically change course then announced to the forum, "You know what?  You're right. There is no god and I've been full of shit all along."
Has that ever happened?  :?

There's at least one other regular here who came as a believer and is now an atheist (and is still participating).  Not my place to name him, though, so I'll let him speak up for himself if he chooses to.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Online ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6353
  • Darwins +747/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Hide and Seek World Champion since 1958!
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 05:55:53 PM »
Had this forum being going back in '62, I'm sure it would have helped me a lot.  ;D
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Quesi

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1986
  • Darwins +371/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2012, 06:11:39 PM »
Bad Pear, that is an amazing story.  Thank you for sharing.  I would love to hear more about the other events in your life and the other influences that led you to such a huge conversion. 

I do not have a personal goal of "converting" people.  I assume that there are those who come here questioning, or feeling alone, and find answers or community. 

And I certainly I resent those who come here and try and convert us. 

Perhaps I don't really understand.  I was raised in a secular family, and other than a brief flirtation with a sort of earth based paganism, I have never been a theist.  I certainly have beloved extended family members who are religious, but that is different.  For those of you who came from a deep faith, and all of the accompanying "answers" and traditions and community, I can only begin to imagine how difficult the transition is. 

Offline Grimm

  • Professional Windmill Tilter
  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 826
  • Darwins +61/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Apparently, the Dragon to be Slain
    • The Hexadecimal Number of the Beast
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2012, 06:52:31 PM »
I'm one, though admittedly my faith was failing when I found the place.  Talking here, asking questions here, was what pushed me over the edge. :)

I learned a lot from these guys, too.
"But to us, there is but one god, plus or minus one."  - 1 Corinthians 8:6+/-2

-- Randall, XKCD http://xkcd.com/900/

Offline The Gawd

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 883
  • Darwins +78/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2012, 06:53:44 PM »
I have a buddy who was a JW, now just a deist. He's probably atheist TBH, but he says he simply cant get it past his mind that nothing exists beyond what we see. I cant take all the credit but I coaxed it along and provided the resources.

In return he provides me with whatever religious texts I need... you know JW are well versed in a lot of religions.

Offline joebbowers

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1074
  • Darwins +91/-47
  • Gender: Male
    • My Photography
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2012, 11:37:39 PM »
I do not have a personal goal of "converting" people.

I just want to correct you on this. Religion is a socially acceptable form of insanity. That needs to change. We do not convert, we deconvert. We do not indoctrinate, we educate. That should be your goal.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline atheola

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1288
  • Darwins +28/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • Hospitals suck past an hour.
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2012, 01:59:34 AM »
I probably learned more here (in context) here than college ever taught me.. I learned certain things obviously in college never or seldom discussed here, but critical thinking here is a degree in itself. I'm far more confident telling holy trollers to piss off and why than ever before.  :laugh:
You better believe it's not butter or you'll burn in hell forever and EVER!
Get on your knees right now and thank GOD for not being real!

Offline Bad Pear

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
  • Darwins +16/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Observations from one bad fruit to the bunch.
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2012, 10:25:32 AM »
I would love to hear more about the other events in your life and the other influences that led you to such a huge conversion.

It was mostly my conversations here and the ensuing flood of information that I began researching regarding the ToE. I was a YEC, and the whole notion of Christ's sacrifice is directly tied to the fall of Adam[1], so once the literal interpretation of Genesis was gone everything else pretty much followed suit. Learning to question the creationist bullshit that I had bought into hook, line, and sinker helped me to begin questioning other things like my political stances, many of why were also born out of a literal reading of the Bible.

For many people like me (in the bible belt) I think it's just a matter of shaking them into looking at the evidence. Once you get past that fingers in the ears attitude their eyes just roll open.

I take pride in the fact that I've "deconverted" three people in the last four years, juxtaposed against the zero that I converted back when I thought their eternal souls were at stake.
 1. Sorry, but the notion of Christianity being reconcilable with theistic evolution is way too much retcon for my tastes.
Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions implode, atheism is what is left behind

Offline atheola

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1288
  • Darwins +28/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • Hospitals suck past an hour.
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2012, 02:10:42 PM »
You may be the perfect candidate for our new insurgency pastor program now that so many churches are being foreclosed on and put back on the market... :angel:
Ya know..that's not a bad idea.  :D
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 02:12:50 PM by atheola »
You better believe it's not butter or you'll burn in hell forever and EVER!
Get on your knees right now and thank GOD for not being real!

Offline ungod

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 580
  • Darwins +15/-9
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2012, 03:40:04 PM »
Once you get past that fingers in the ears attitude their eyes just roll open.

Trouble is, most of those fingers are secured by crazy glue!

Congrats on achieving critical thinking. You must be a much lighter being now!
  ;D

Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

"What good fortune for those in power that people do not think." - Hitler

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2012, 03:43:58 PM »

Religion is a socially acceptable form of insanity. That needs to change.

I don't agree because most people are religious to some extent, and if religion was insanity then we would be living in an insane world, which, apart from those in power, we generally don't. Perhaps you mean fundamentalism.

Offline bertatberts

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1411
  • Darwins +49/-8
  • Gender: Male
  • Humanists. Not perfect. Not forgiven. Responsible.
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2012, 04:18:58 PM »

Religion is a socially acceptable form of insanity. That needs to change.

I don't agree because most people are religious to some extent, and if religion was insanity then we would be living in an insane world, which, apart from those in power, we generally don't. Perhaps you mean fundamentalism.
No, he means insanity. It is only because of rational people, that the world isn't as insane as it could be now. Be thankful for small mercy's.
When the world was run by the religious, people were being killed in the millions.
We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2012, 04:21:13 PM »
Well that's an inaccurate view, bert. Rational and religious are not mutually exclusive. Besides, there are plenty of perfectly rational people in positions of authority and decision making in the world who happen to be religious, or otherwise theists.

Offline Omen

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5955
  • Darwins +105/-15
  • One of the fucking bad guys; not friendly, tiger!
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2012, 04:23:30 PM »
Well that's an inaccurate view, bert. Rational and religious are not mutually exclusive.

A religious claim necessarily presupposes a supernatural context which defies any rational means of 'knowing'.  It by default excludes rational structured epistemology.  The only way to have 'knowledge' of it would be through 'magic'.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2012, 04:25:32 PM »
I said that rational and religious are not mutually exclusive. Are you suggesting that a religious person cannot be rational, omen?

Offline Omen

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5955
  • Darwins +105/-15
  • One of the fucking bad guys; not friendly, tiger!
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2012, 04:26:37 PM »
I said that rational and religious are not mutually exclusive. Are you suggesting that a religious person cannot be rational, omen?

And I explained to you how they are mutually exclusive.

Perhaps you should have addressed that.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10926
  • Darwins +284/-37
  • Gender: Male
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2012, 04:29:08 PM »
A person being 100% rational is an impossibility. However, if you are religious, by definition you are irrational; at least when it comes to your religion.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2012, 04:30:02 PM »
Perhaps you could quit confusing rational with rationality, and religious with religion, omen. A religious person CAN (don't worry, my keyboard's fine now) be rational.


Offline Omen

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5955
  • Darwins +105/-15
  • One of the fucking bad guys; not friendly, tiger!
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2012, 04:32:20 PM »
Perhaps you could quit confusing rational with rationality, and religious with religion, omen. A religious person CAN (don't worry, my keyboard's fine now) be rational.

I explained how a person who espouses a religion is not rational as doing so automatically evokes an irrational condition for claiming to 'know' something.  Supernatural, by definition, is not observed nor observable.  Religion, by definition, is the belief in supernatural agents.

Perhaps you could actually argue in favor of your counter claim, like I argued in favor of mine?  You know, try your hand at an argument rather than a blind assertion?

To quote lucifer: Put up or shut up
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline kymer

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +5/-49
  • Gender: Male
  • *** The One ***
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2012, 04:37:39 PM »
I suppose you think religious people never find themselves in scenarios in which rationality is called for, omen. They don't spend 24/7 in church, you know.

Offline Omen

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5955
  • Darwins +105/-15
  • One of the fucking bad guys; not friendly, tiger!
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2012, 04:39:04 PM »
I suppose you think religious people never find themselves in scenarios in which rationality is called for, omen.

Red herring and goal post shifting.

That has nothing to do with the claim you made, nor my counter argument.  We are specifically talking about whether rationality can accompany a religious claim, not whether someone who is religious can sometimes be rational about irrelevant non-religious subjects.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10926
  • Darwins +284/-37
  • Gender: Male
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: just wondering if anyone has changed opinions
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2012, 04:40:54 PM »
Religious people often find themselves in situations where their faith is useless (which is pretty much all the time) and they know it's useless. That's why religious people look both ways before they cross the road. That's why religious people take medicine. That's why religious people avoid death at all costs, even though they claim to believe that they'll go to a better place when they die.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.