Author Topic: gaps getting smaller and smaller  (Read 2108 times)

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Offline magicmiles

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2012, 11:08:37 PM »
Said magicmiles to 'ricity
thankyou for the verse
my scientific ignorance
is really quite the curse

My preference has always been
for fiction over fact
so here today befor you all
I make this solemn pact

I'll read some scientific books
I'll listen and take heed
and see if my worldview withstands
the things I therein read
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2012, 01:21:53 AM »
It's obviously left wing elitist brainwashing of the masses to undermine the freedom for religion in the US because everyone's aware of the prior data that that proves John Wayne tamed the dinosaurs. Nontheless I for one think it's cool stuff.  ;)

Come on, man, everyone knows it was really Chuck Norris who tamed, and then killed, the dinosaurs!
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Offline atheola

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2012, 03:11:33 AM »
Wrong oh sage one.. It twas in fact Chuck Norris who portrayed John Wayne exercising on late night infomercials. John Wayne portrayed Charlton Heston who tamed then killed the dinosaurs then made their bones into fossil-like material then secretly placed them all around the world when Moses was portraying Charlton Heston who kinda sorta looks like Chuck Norris if you squint your eyes in a dark room at night on February the 30th of every 7th year.  :angel:
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Offline Historicity

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2012, 07:05:04 AM »
Said magicmiles to 'ricity
thankyou for the verse
...

And yours is original, while mine was told to me by my mom.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2012, 08:53:36 AM »
If fish evolved into amphibians how come there are still fish?

I know you were joking, but how do you answer that question? It's a common one from theists.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline velkyn

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2012, 09:07:22 AM »
Said magicmiles to 'ricity
thankyou for the verse
my scientific ignorance
is really quite the curse

My preference has always been
for fiction over fact
so here today befor you all
I make this solemn pact

I'll read some scientific books
I'll listen and take heed
and see if my worldview withstands
the things I therein read

and quoted to see the usual lies of a Christian.  It's hilarious that MM hasn't read any scientific books so far and decided that he knew enough to question the things he didn't even understand.
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2012, 12:11:01 PM »
If fish evolved into amphibians how come there are still fish?

I know you were joking, but how do you answer that question? It's a common one from theists.

If chickens come from eggs, how come there are still eggs?[1] Some fish with adaptations that would make them more suitable for land dwelling yet rather water dependent lifestyles. The fish with those adaptations migrated onto land, and through a long period of evolution, including many dead ends, became what we call today amphibians. Those fish without such adaptions remained in the water as fish, following a more marine based evolution.

Also, if all dog breeds are descended from wolves, how are there still wolves? I guess the problem we deal with in these types of situations is not how to just provide people with the correct information, but how to prevent people from making such horrible comparisons and asking such obviously stupid questions to begin with. To me, dog breeds are a great example of evolution in a way, in that you don't really see a whole lot of wild poodles or terriers, yet they exist as pets. Because at some point a long time ago, people starting domesticating wolves, and select for those features within the species that were most desirable to them. Further experimentation with breeding led to a greater diversity, until you see the variety of dog breeds present today.

I admit that my analysis of evolution as presented here may not be perfect, but I think it is probably a lot better of a representation than most theists would put forth.
 1.  I realize that eggs existed long before chickens. I am merely mocking this silly line of questioning.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline velkyn

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2012, 12:14:17 PM »
If fish evolved into amphibians how come there are still fish?

I know you were joking, but how do you answer that question? It's a common one from theists.

Kaz pretty much got it.  There are various types of amphibians, just as there are various types of fish. They have evolved to fit a certain niche, so we have fish that are good in salt water, fish that can scooch around from pond to pond and when the environment had a niche that was where ponds were too far apart, there would be creatures that would evolve to fit that, e.g. amphibians or something like them.  Since we still have salt water and we still have swamps, we still have the critters that fit them.  They were not acted upon by the environment. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Backspace

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2012, 01:09:22 PM »
If fish evolved into amphibians how come there are still fish?

I know you were joking, but how do you answer that question? It's a common one from theists.

If god created man from dust, why do I still have to clean my house every week?  &)
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Offline atheola

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2012, 01:17:28 PM »
God just wanted us to remember our roots hence the dusty trail... :angel:
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2012, 02:22:41 PM »
If fish evolved into amphibians how come there are still fish?

I know you were joking, but how do you answer that question? It's a common one from theists.

If god created man from dust, why do I still have to clean my house every week?  &)

Cause it keeps rubbing off. :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2012, 02:26:07 PM »
If only that's how we made babies. Mom and dad, out in the garden, sculpting a little one and breathing life into it.

Sure would explain why I look like I do. I hate to think that genes did this to me.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2012, 02:28:24 PM »
The stork left you under a cabbage leaf. That explains it.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2012, 03:10:57 PM »
I know you were joking, but how do you answer that question? It's a common one from theists.

Kaziglu Bey did a fairly descent job of answering but I just thought of cattle breeders and selective breeding. As a direct result of our scientific understanding of biology we(humans) have induced new types of cattle. It doesn't work by magic. The science is real. Otherwise we would not have the Belgian Blue

The other types of cattle they used to create this new bread still exist because we did not kill them all off once we created the Belgian Blue.




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Offline Historicity

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2012, 08:02:03 PM »
If fish evolved into amphibians how come there are still fish?

I know you were joking, but how do you answer that question? It's a common one from theists.

Being a fish is still a satisfactory ecological niche. 

Darwin and Russell had the same insight.  They got it from economics.  Basically, going extinct is the same as going bankrupt.  Adapting to a changed environment is the same as adapting to a changed market. 

Circa 1910 a lot of blacksmiths became auto mechanics.  But that horses, saddle makers, stables and blacksmiths are still in business. 

So the question, "If humans evolved from apes, how come their are still apes?" is parallel to saying "If auto mechanics came from blacksmiths, how come there are still blacksmiths?" 

Offline atheola

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2012, 11:25:12 PM »
I wonder how many if any land mammals evolved into sea mammals or if any creatures did.. ANYONE?

It might be noted I'm no scientists...duh. but I am pretty handy with a wrench and ironically a kitchen knife.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 11:28:30 PM by atheola »
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Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2012, 09:25:58 AM »
I wonder how many if any land mammals evolved into sea mammals or if any creatures did.. ANYONE?

It might be noted I'm no scientists...duh. but I am pretty handy with a wrench and ironically a kitchen knife.

Whales and possibly dolphins as well were initially land mammals and returned to the sea. Some whales even have vestigial leg bones. Polar bears are also considered marine mammals, but they are still land capable as well as sea worthy, so they might not be a very good example. But yes, land mammals have evolved into marine mammals, indeed the some of largest species of animal to have ever lived.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline velkyn

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2012, 09:32:41 AM »
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Dante

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Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Historicity

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2012, 09:48:04 AM »
seems like seals were originally land critters: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/04/090422-seal-evolution-missing-link.html

After watching an episode of Blue World I wondered why a seal's face looks so doggy.  I looked it up and they are in the suborder CaniformiaWiki.  They are most closely related to bears.  They are the sub-sub order PinnipediaWiki.

Shakira thought some sea lions were cute and got too close.  The sea lion attacked, roaring, and she retreated.  Sea lions are cute the same way their relatives the bears are cute.  Don't get too close.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 09:54:49 AM by Historicity »

Offline Tero

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2012, 11:31:45 AM »
Even though fundies deny evolution, they still think the purpose of evolution is to evolve into a higher being. Like man.

Offline atheola

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2012, 05:24:29 PM »
I kinda figured it works both ways. Wait till we run across one them thangs evolved to live in the vacuum of space besides us. :D
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Offline Rustybeatz

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2012, 08:31:00 PM »
Also, if all dog breeds are descended from wolves, how are there still wolves? I guess the problem we deal with in these types of situations is not how to just provide people with the correct information, but how to prevent people from making such horrible comparisons and asking such obviously stupid questions to begin with. To me, dog breeds are a great example of evolution in a way, in that you don't really see a whole lot of wild poodles or terriers, yet they exist as pets. Because at some point a long time ago, people starting domesticating wolves, and select for those features within the species that were most desirable to them. Further experimentation with breeding led to a greater diversity, until you see the variety of dog breeds present today.
I just saw a show on the Discovery Channel about these people that bred wild silver foxes for tameness.  As they bred the aggresiveness out of them they realized their tails started getting shorter and they started getting different coat colors.  In other words, they started looking more like normal dogs.  It was quite fascinating.

Offline Historicity

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2012, 09:29:19 PM »
I just saw a show on the Discovery Channel about these people that bred wild silver foxes for tameness.  As they bred the aggresiveness out of them they realized their tails started getting shorter and they started getting different coat colors.  In other words, they started looking more like normal dogs.  It was quite fascinating.

And I read about it years ago with better detail.  It was foxes, not silver foxes. 

Canids have an estrual cycle.  Dogs have it twice as often as foxes and wolves.  These doglike foxes have a dog cycle now.

Foxes and wolves only bark for a short period during adolescence.  It's a phase they go thru. Dogs and these doglike foxes bark all their lives.

Foxes and wolves never form emotional attachments after adolescence.  The lone wolf who is left from a pack is not a romantic, aloof, adventurer.  He is living what is left of a miserable life and he can't stop.  Dogs and these doglike foxes can always make new friends.

The conclusion is there was always a genetic potential in canids to be bred so they live in perpetual adolescence.  A single gene often has the consequence of several characteristics.

Offline Tero

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2012, 07:08:08 AM »
Yea! I want a coyote pet! Nobody on our block has that yet.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2012, 12:53:17 PM »
Yea! I want a coyote pet! Nobody on our block has that yet.

You do that. We will watch from a safe distance like the old guy on Mutual of Omaha Wild Kingdom. But we'll be sure to save your personal effects for your kin.  :o
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline wright

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2012, 02:31:57 PM »
On coyotes as pets (and undomesticated animals as pets in general), Shreve Stockton is an example of someone doing it right: http://www.dailycoyote.net/.

Charlie, the coyote she adopted when he was ten days old in 2007, is definitely not a domesticated canine and Stockton has never forgotten that, despite the bond between them. In her book and blog she details the differences and problems involved.

For instance, she had to clearly assert herself as the alpha in their relationship, because for awhile Charlie was constantly testing her authority over him. And as Historicity said, the coyote bonded with her and her boyfriend (who Charlie has known since puppyhood) and a few other animals but flees from any other human; he's incapable of making further ties that way.

They all live in rural Wyoming, though. Trying to make a pet of a coyote in suburban California, say, probably wouldn't go over very well.
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Offline Grogs

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2012, 04:40:18 PM »
They all live in rural Wyoming, though. Trying to make a pet of a coyote in suburban California, say, probably wouldn't go over very well.

Especially when he eats the neighbor's cat.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: gaps getting smaller and smaller
« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2012, 04:02:36 AM »
Coyotes are pretty small and timid, especially alone. They are nowhere near as big as wolves. A big cat could probably scare the hell out of the average coyote.
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