jakec47's beliefs

[kaziglu bey]

You know I have heard stories. My mother had a friend who knew a witch, and she went to the witches house and said stuff was floating all around the house. I think there are "magic" if you can call it that, but it is power from Satan, anyone who is said to receive power from these "gods" is really receiving it from Satan.

I am reminded of the McDonald's advertisements from the days of yore. It went something like "Do you believe in magic? Well I hope you do! Because you'll always have a friend wearing big red shoes." jake, do you believe in Ronald McDonald?

[screwtape]

Satan? Possibly...

[nogodsforme]

Doug Henning! Thanks for coming down!

[Seppuku]

Jake.

You believe there's real witches, you believe in magic, you believe it comes from the devil. Do you agree with the bible on this?
Exodus 22:18 (Under laws for everyday life)

Death is the punishment for witchcraft.

Because some Nigerian Evangelists do agree.

This can be the problem when one takes the bible literally and solely uses its morality and ignores any human law or morality.

You can see why we're sometimes so anti-superstition, because it can result not only in crazy, but it can be seriously fucked up when people start taking it too seriously.

[jakec47]

I would not kill witches today, in the Old Testament times I would...but Jesus has told us to love now and save the judgement for God, he will deal with the witch if they do not repent. And Velkyn and Screwtape, there is no use in continuing this fruitless argument because I can not prove I am a true christian, Christ reveals things, and you cannot prove something like that, nor do I have to. I just know something is different and I tried to change on my own and it didn't happen, it wasn't me.

[jeremy0]

jake4c:

I'm a warlock.  I use my magical powers to fight demons and angels who don't agree with me, and are causing trouble for the living.  I have magical abilities.  I can use my magic to persuade you to respond irrationally and with great ignorance - I can blind your eyes and bind your hands. 

Does this mean god will kill me because I have stated the above?  Can I prove to you that my 'witchcraft' actually works?  How about any other 'witch'?  How do you define a 'witch'?  Since when did any of these witchcraft groups actually cause anything that wasn't a direct coincidence and a self-fulfilling prophecy?  Jake - are you from the 14th century?  Go back to your time - we were burning witches back in the 1800s.  You lose, general Kanobe...

[screwtape]

it wasn't me.

It must have been the ghost of Doug Henning.

[velkyn]

I would not kill witches today, in the Old Testament times I would...but Jesus has told us to love now and save the judgement for God, he will deal with the witch if they do not repent.

Ah, the true words of a sycophant, "I'll murder if I'm told to do so."

Sorry, Jake but your bible doesn’t say that this is your excuse.  We have JC saying that all of those laws are still in force

19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands(Y) and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

. And gee, the earth and heaven are still around!  Mark 7 says that the laws are still in effect, as done Matthew 15. He does also say that one should not judge others, which would make his statements contradictory and it would make it rather hard for Christians to sit on juries, etc. 

Paul says that this god will do the judging and punishment (Roman 12) but then certainly does a lot of judging of what is “right” and “wrong” for his followers, again, more contradiction and a lot of “do as I say, not as I do”.  Paul is also all about people judging each other

1 Corinthians 6: 6 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!

Nice bit of claiming that Christians will judge the world, that they will judge angels, that only other Christians should judge Christians, and oh yes, hide the fact that Christians disagree. Oh yes, and 1 Corinthians 6, is yet more repetition of who will and who won’t get “heaven” per Paul, who seems to repeating the nonsense from the OT as if it were right from God!   So is 1 timothy 1 8-9,   Christians judge and punish constantly. Plenty of Christians for the death penalty, and Jake, you can’t show that they are wrong and you are right.  So much for your claims that only god can judge and punish.  The link below has an interesting argument, that it is only rulers who can punish and kill, citing one of my favorite verses to show Christians, Romans 13.  Romans13 says that *all* rulers are put in place by this god and that *all* rulers should be obeyed and according to this Christian, have the perfect right to kill and punish people.  Of course, this Christian tries to claim that this means only “godly” rulers, and tries to use ellipses to play pretend that the verse says this, when it doesn’t. Always good to see some more intentional lying.

An amusing Christian site, that argues for this god being again not omniscient or omnipotent when screwing up over the death penalty: http://www.theologyonline.com/DEATH.HTML  And such a “good” quote from it

Laying aside the commands of God has its consequences. In America, murder has become the number one cause of death among young black males, and suicide is the number three cause of death among all teenagers. There is a death penalty when children disrespect their parents. If Jesus' telling of God's command is ignored, countless children will die terrible deaths at the hands of other children and by their own hands.

  Always enjoy this bit of lying here and oh the intentional quote mining of the bible that’s here. But that could be for another whole thread.  I will say I find it hilarious that this “TrueChristian” says that David was forgiven for his adultery, but fails to mention his son was murdered for it.  Yes, indeed that is a bit of a problem with the pious fraud this person tries to perpetrate.

And Velkyn and Screwtape, there is no use in continuing this fruitless argument because I can not prove I am a true christian, Christ reveals things, and you cannot prove something like that, nor do I have to. I just know something is different and I tried to change on my own and it didn't happen, it wasn't me.

There is plenty of use in this discussion, Jake.  The results are worth it, that you admit that you have no evidence that you are the true Christian you’ve claimed, that your interpretation of your religion is no different or better than any one else’s and that you keep on lying and making things up.  There is no evidence that your Christ reveals anything at all.  You do have to demonstrate that you are a Christian if you want to keep making claims that you are somehow magically right and that a god supports you.

You make the same tired claims of other theists with just as much aka no evidence that your claims are true.  Theists of many stripes claim that their god made something “different” and that they were unable to do something but this magical god could. 

[jakec47]

My God is the true God because unlike all the other religions in the world, he created the universe, and everything in it. Other God's were created by man. That is how I prove he is the true God.

[screwtape]

My God is the true God because unlike all the other religions in the world, he created the universe, and everything in it. Other God's were created by man. That is how I prove he is the true God.

F minus.  This does not prove anything other than your incompetence.

[velkyn]

My God is the true God because unlike all the other religions in the world, he created the universe, and everything in it. Other God's were created by man. That is how I prove he is the true God.

yes, yes, Jake.  Keep repeating that baseless nonsense just like the Muslims, the Hindus, the Wicca, etc. Sigh, every theist so sure that their particular god is responsible for the universe and sadly none of you have any evidence.  There are lots of gods claimed as the "creator": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Creator_gods 

show me how you know that your god wasn't created by man and all of the other were. I'm waiting. 

[Quesi]

My God is the true God because unlike all the other religions in the world, he created the universe, and everything in it. Other God's were created by man. That is how I prove he is the true God.

Jake.  Do you understand that there are others who say the same thing of their God?  The can offer up evidence and scriptures, and threats of punishment for those who don't believe, just like you can. 

What would you say to those people, who also believe that THEIR GOD created the universe?

[Alzael]

Ahura Mazda is the true God because unlike all the other religions in the world, he created the universe, and everything in it. Other God's were created by man. That is how I prove he is the true God.

Mbombo is the true God because unlike all the other religions in the world, he created the universe, and everything in it. Other God's were created by man. That is how I prove he is the true God.

Atum is the true God because unlike all the other religions in the world, he created the universe, and everything in it. Other God's were created by man. That is how I prove he is the true God.

Ptah is the true God because unlike all the other religions in the world, he created the universe, and everything in it. Other God's were created by man. That is how I prove he is the true God.

Unkulunkulu is the true God because unlike all the other religions in the world, he created the universe, and everything in it. Other God's were created by man. That is how I prove he is the true God.

Raven is the true God because unlike all the other religions in the world, he created the universe, and everything in it. Other God's were created by man. That is how I prove he is the true God.

Funny, there seem to be an awful lot of true gods,huh?

[jakec47]

They may claim they created everything, but in truth, only one did.

[Alzael]

You know I just went down the list, and I can actually think of 13 gods that supposedly created the universe just off the top of my head. That's without even bothering to do a google search.

Othes include Izanagi, El, Kamuy, Rod, and Viracocha. I could go on if you want jake.

They may claim they created everything, but in truth, only one did.

Then where is your evidence?

The same evidence for your claim that you presented is the one that also proves their claim.

You also misrepresent the truth. It's not in truth that only one did. It's only in truth that one did if the universe was actually created. It's also possible that no one did. You kind of forgot that one.

Or at least I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you just forgot it.

[nogodsforme]

They may claim they created everything, but in truth, only one did.

Or none of them did. Or all of them did. Since none of the gods have any evidence that they (and only they) did it.

PS Why did so many gods use books to communicate with people when most folks were illiterate back then? We simple humans have cell phones with texting and email already.

[jakec47]

Yea, I guess you could say no one created it. Seems to complex for that, but I know about the different processes of natural selection and such.

[Alzael]

Yea, I guess you could say no one created it. Seems to complex for that, but I know about the different processes of natural selection and such.

In other words, you don't actually have any evidence. And you don't have enough honesty to admit it.

[nogodsforme]

Yea, I guess you could say no one created it. Seems to complex for that, but I know about the different processes of natural selection and such.

How do you know that the universe is too complex? What would a simple universe look like?

[Graybeard]

[Edit GB: a huge, copy and paste job follows:] "The flood narrative in Genesis is more realistic and less mythological than other ancient versions,

That is both opinion and wrong - see The Epic of Gilgamesh

indicating its authenticity.

An idiot for Jesus - why does it "indicate its authenticity"? Why? Is the authenticity of Snow White and the Seven Dwaves indicated simply because the talking bears in Goldilocks are less realistic? Do we now accept Snow White as a real person?

(Geisler, Norman L. Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1998.)" - (McDowell, Josh Evidence for Christianity. Nashville, TN: Nelson, Inc. 2006)

Jake -
the guy who is writing all of what you quoted is counting upon his readers being stupid. He is counting on them being unintelligent and badly educated. He is telling lies.

It is not often I suggest a book be burned and its author banned from speaking ever again, but in this case, and because he is a cretin, I so advise.

[jeremy0]

My God is the true God because unlike all the other religions in the world, he created the universe, and everything in it. Other God's were created by man. That is how I prove he is the true God.

F minus.  This does not prove anything other than your incompetence.

Agreed.  Scaling factor goes to F- in logic, reasoning, philosophy, and IQ.  As well as not listening to the teachers.  Epic Fail.   

[kaziglu bey]

My God is the true God because unlike all the other religions in the world, he created the universe, and everything in it. Other God's were created by man. That is how I prove he is the true God.

Please tell me that you are not serious in this post. I would be embarrassed to post something this intellectually defective in a global public medium. All religions have a creation story, and there is no way for you to demonstrate that your version is the correct and only true version. It's just not possible. No theist in history has ever been able to demonstrate this, which is why atheists are continually asking the question. There are creation stories that predate Genesis. There are so many factual errors in the Christian creation story, that it is no more believable or credible than any other mythical creation story. Iluvatar is just as likely to have created the universe and us as Yahweh, bringer of war. The probability of each is equally small. I could say "Odin is the true God because unlike all other religions in the world, he created the universe, and everything in it. Other God's were created by man. That is how I prove that Odin is the true God. " That statement is just as valid as what you said, except that there was more than one creator in Norse creation, but in spite of that, I think the comparison is quite valid.

Oh, yeah, 500 posts, 50 positive Darwins. I'm on the metric system apparently.

[velkyn]

Yea, I guess you could say no one created it. Seems to complex for that, but I know about the different processes of natural selection and such.

really. So you know about the "different processes of natural selection" now?  That's a suprise since you've not demonstrated any knowledge or acceptance of them before. 

Jake, you have again made the claim that you somehow know that it was only your god that's really "real" and was the creator of the universe.  You have yet to show how so I'm guessing you are lying again.  Pity.

[screwtape]

Yea, I guess you could say no one created it. Seems to complex for that, but I know about the different processes of natural selection and such.

I agree.  That is how I know the Eternal Machine made the universe.  It is too complex to have been created by itself or by some guy.  It had to be a machine.  And this wonderous machine exists outside time and space!  It has always existed.  And it never breaks down.  And it manufactures the laws of nature and matter and energy.  Praise the Eternal Machine!

[jakec47]

How do you know that the universe is too complex? What would a simple universe look like?

I know its complex because I can't explain it in 5 minutes. Let alone 1 hour. A simple universe I could explain in 1 minute. And there would be no unknowns in a simple universe. However this would change if I was an expert in the field.

[nogodsforme]

How do you know that the universe is too complex? What would a simple universe look like?

I know its complex because I can't explain it in 5 minutes. Let alone 1 hour. A simple universe I could explain in 1 minute. And there would be no unknowns in a simple universe. However this would change if I was an expert in the field.

I don't think there is anything so simple that it can be completely explained in 1 minute. Except supernatural beings like ghosts, spirits and gods. One minute explanation: they do not exist. Everything we think we know about them is made up by people. The end.

But you are saying that the universe is so complex that it would have to be created by an even more complex god-type being outside of nature.[1] That implies that naturally occuring things are simple. Is a snowflake, a flower, a hyena, a river or a volcano simple? They are all naturally occuring--and plenty complex.

My question is: how simple would the universe have to be for it to be naturally occuring? Can't a complex thing be naturally occuring? How do you even begin to compare simple and complex universes without any other examples?

You say the universe is "too complex", even though people have figured out a lot of things about it. Nothing has come down to supernatural magic yet....and there is no reason the think that magical powers have anything to do with anything.

1.	We will leave for now the paradox of needing an uncreated being to create everything else...

[jakec47]

Some things can be explained in one minute. Like for example, My dog is a brown Boxer-Weimaraner, that is 2 yrs. old.

[nogodsforme]

Some things can be explained in one minute. Like for example, My dog is a brown Boxer-Weimaraner, that is 2 yrs. old.

And the earth is a water-based planet in a minor solar system. It is 4.6 billion years old, covered mainly with algae, bacteria and beetles, and is mostly harmless.

Good on you for having a doggie. I have two who would love to play with yours. They don't believe in gods either--a major plus for dogs.

[jeremy0]

My beliefs are as follows:
 - I believe that there is one God, the God of the Bible.
 - I believe that the Flood was an actual happening and that Noah's ark was historical.
 - I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God
 - I do not believe in Evolution, however I do not understand it, I believe God made all animals according to their various kinds.
 - I believe the Earth is about 6,000 years old not billions.
 - I believe anything the Bible says
 - I believe in Heaven for the saved.
 - I believe those not saved will be annihilated in hellfire.
 - I believe when we die we sleep until the resurrection at the end of days.
That is about most of the beliefs I can think of right now. Which one would you like to discuss?

Jake c 47: Now I will crush you.  You have insulted me seriously in another area, and I am NOT AMUSED.  In fact, I am pissed at your ignorance...

"I believe in one God, the God of the Bible"
The bible was written by man, to push Christianity.  Prove that your one god exists above all others.  And don't use your pathetic posture of 'god is helping me', crap to prove so.  You have proven you are delusional.  I'll show you wisdom:  If this existence serves a higher purpose, and there is a Father God, then this person gave me every opportunity to live every possible life - along with another woman - so I could learn through experience, in which there is no better way to learn.  Create world peace?  The only way is through understanding that people need good things in order to survive and be healthy and happy.  We were given problems to learn how to solve them correctly, and understand the ramifications of not solving them correctly and directly.  In effect, I will be you, and you will become me.  This is my god - the Father, those that came before me, and myself.  I'm saying with just this one story, my god makes much more sense than the god of the christian bible, which supports old beliefs, was written for audiences and for different situations, to push christianity.  The god of the bible is NO DIFFERENT than any god that came before that one or after that one.  I can't even respect the god of christianity.  That's how bad your god is.  If this god is true - I will kill him.  Can I express my feelings on your religion any further?  It's not just your religion, either - it's everyone's.  You all believe in false deities.  I don't like false crap.  Show me a god that actually gives a fuck about life, and I'll put a crown on his head..

"I believe that the Flood was an actual happening and that Noah's ark was historical. "
To not bother repeating the obvious, it is mathematically, biologically, astronomically, ecologically, and scientifically impossible that a flood could have covered every mountain top of the entire earth.  Fossil records at the top of mountains verify that colliding upward thrusts of the earth's crust creates mountain ranges.  We have no historical record of Noah, or his people, aside from a 'story' in your 'holy crap'...

"I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God"
This is because you can't fucking understand it.  I was like you - I wanted to understand everything about the bible.  And what jesus said.  When I understood it all - it disproved itself.  I had to ignore the bad stuff for it to make any sense.  This means either the bible was written by raving lunatics, or the language and attitudes of the time was accurately reflected in the bible and therefore written by man.  You think it's inspired by God because you can't understand it in its entirety due to your feeble mind.

"I do not believe in Evolution, however I do not understand it, I believe God made all animals according to their various kinds."
According to what we know about 'what came first, then what came after', god making all animals according to the bible is completely invalidated.  Completely.  Look at the chronological order of events.  It's way off - even the making of the sun.  I've got news for you - back then, this was their only explanation for how things were - god did it.  Now, we have scientific evidence that life can and will thrive anywhere that the conditions are right for it to.  I don't need life to be found on other planets to verify that theory.  They've already proven it in the lab.  But you won't believe it unless we do find it on another planet - and then you'll rationalize that form of life somehow as having some purpose to deceive more people.  Evolution is now scientific fact.  The fact that you don't understand it BLASTS OUT THAT YOU ARE INCOMPETENT, STUPID, AND HAVE A LACK OF PROPER SCHOOLING...

"I believe the Earth is about 6,000 years old not billions."
Yes, yes, and we lived with dinosaurs, fossil carbon dating is way off, etc.  The earliest form of man was at least a million years ago, in recent news.  Carbon dating is in fact, very accurate.  You are an idiot for believing that with all we know scientifically about how the earth has progressed over millions of years, and failing to understand this, god I want to slap you.  Physicists are not wrong.  Just because you can't understand evolution or physics doesn't prove your god exists, or that the earth is 6,000 years old.  Any geologist, ecologist, biologist, historian, zoo keeper, hell, anyone with a brain, should be laughing at you for this statement.  Go have sex with Palin and create idiot babies..

"I believe anything the Bible says"
Hence your blindness to everything else.  You believe in the bible regardless of anything that goes against it.  Religion without science is blind.  Completely.  Because you fail to understand even basic things about any realm of science, F- to you, sir.  You believe in the bible out of idiocy.  I believe in reason and proof - factual evidence.  Just because your bible 'tells you so' doesn't make it right..

"I believe in Heaven for the saved."
You believe in a fairy-tale.  Heaven likely doesn't exist.  if it does, it exists entirely separated from this world.  I will caution you that instead of waiting on jesus to return or heaven to come to you, you had better make this world a better place with the time you have here, rather than waiting for that opportunistic good moment after you have died.  Nobody has died and returned to tell about this 'heaven'.  The ones who have were simply lacking oxygen to their brain and were having hysteria...

" I believe those not saved will be annihilated in hellfire."
And every group out there believes that their group is the saved ones.  Nice to belong to the 'saved club'.  If the only way your god has of creating a good society is to kill off most people and continuously forgive the rest of you, your god is likened to an unreasonable, prejudice, biggotry kind of man.  In fact, this is man's answer to major problems.  I have better answers.  Your god is the god of mindless idiots.

"I believe when we die we sleep until the resurrection at the end of days."
Yes, go to sleep - you might dream about a better place.  When you finally wake up from your crap - then talk to me like a sane person, and we can continue trying to save this planet from immenent doom, and saving our country from continuous loops of economic, personal, financial, health, education, elderly, etc. problems.  Since you seem so destined for heaven, I'll just assume that you'll never realize that we have problems of our own that need to be addressed, and since you are so busy trying to save yourself in heaven, you're of no use to me alive.  I should tie you to a train track, put on some dynamite with a ticker for good measure, and let you sleep well with the hopes of later waking up to a better place. 

I believe in rationality.
I believe in absolute equality.
I believe in doing good things for people
I believe that small things matter
I don't fuck with people
I don't plot against people
I work hard to help you, your kids, and everyone you've ever known
life is very precious to me
I believe in freedom with restrictions to protect those that can't protect themselves
I believe in a free society
I believe we can do better than this
I believe I can do things better than what is currently out there
I actively make things better than what is currently out there
I'm involved in the fight for the rights of everyone else
I fight for the better of all people - not just a select few
I believe anyone can be of use at a later point in time, no matter what crime they used to commit
I believe in teaching
I believe in knowledge
I believe in doing what is good
I don't believe in a god
I don't believe in a heaven
I believe we only have this one life to make all the difference in the world with it.
I believe you are terribly wrong, and wasting your time
I believe there are too many idiots like you
I believe I am surrounded by biggotry, morons, and lazy, hateful, discriminating bastards.
I believe the majority of people aren't aware of what kind of situation they are in
I believe we can be proactive about things, and avoid messes
I believe in me.  I believe in my fellow man.  I believe women possess a certain power as well.  I believe everyone has a voice.  I believe we should use it.
I am Jeremiah.  I am.  I am an atheist.  know it, learn knowledge, be proud of it.  You have overcome an age-old trap.

Jakec47: These should have been your belief system.  Based on reality.  Not some fiction written 2,000 years ago by people trying to use what they knew at the time to make the world a better place.  We are the ones now trying to make the world a better place.  Your religion stands in the way.