Pornography and Human Trafficking; The Atheist Revolution Exposed

[Olivianus]

Since the Enlightement-atheistic principles of freedom of conscience, censorship has been attacked. When these principles really came into their own demographically, in the United States, during the atheistic sexual revolution of the 60s, pornography has become an epidemic. In their foolish trust in experience and the empty teleological theories of ethics that accompany secular empirical thinkers that cannot see what an action will result with in the future, human trafficking has blossomed out of this atheist movement. Because of evil laws like the First Amendment, pornography has spread into a world wide disease.  Pornography makes people sexually addicted deviants who are willing to purchase forced sex slaves from black markets and pimps. A Christian group has produced a documentary called Sex and Money: http://sexandmoneyfilm.com/.

Take a big whiff of your self atheist. This is what your beliefs have produced. May Thomas Jefferson rot in Hell! Reader, do you know what the primary defense and justification for the legalization of pornography? The First Amendment.

[Aaron123]

Wow...

That was quite the word salad.

[HAL]

Olivianus,

I certainly hope that you will devote the time needed to answering replies to this new topic. Remember, this forum is not here for you to publish your ideas and then leave them at the door. It's for discussion.

Thanks.

[Quesi]

Wow.  While I was composing a lengthy response to the Kony 2012 thread, which included references to Christianity and human trafficking, this post popped up. 

I will find the time to respond here.  (Bedtime for the little one looms, and it will take a while to respond.) But Olivanius, if you get to time to respond to the posts that HAL is referring to, I'd be delighted to hear your response to my post on human trafficking. 

[Traveler]

In a very, very brief google search, I came up with the following from 
http://www.crosswalk.com/church/pastors-or-leadership/how-many-porn-addicts-are-in-your-church-1336107.html which is a christian site, about Christian's use of porn.

Could half of Christian men have a problem with porn, as so many of the statistics say? Porn is reported to be a 12 billion dollar industry in the U.S… 50 percent of men viewed pornography within one week of attending a Promise Keepers stadium event… 54 percent of pastors said they viewed porn within the past year in a Pastors.com survey… in a 2003 Focus on the Family poll 47 percent of respondents said porn is a problem in their home.

... my being a woman might skew things, but I'm an atheist and I've never been the slightest bit interested in porn. Its your right to free speech that allows you to come in here and spew your nonsense ideas. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Seppuku]

Wow...just wow.

A Christian group has produced a documentary called Sex and Money: http://sexandmoneyfilm.com/.

Why do I get the feeling this is going to be incredibly biased and based on distorted views of history aimed to manipulate anybody watching? Why would I come to that conclusion? Because generally it's exactly what happens when Christian groups try to attack something they don't like. Like (but not limited to) the blues, interracial marriage, rock and roll, heavy metal, moshing, gothic music, paganism, homosexuality, punk music, gay marriage, Muslims, the middle east, the theory of evolution, Nazism, the theory of natural selection, Darwinism, Humanism, atheism and so on.

I will probably give the video a watch, so that I'm not ignorant of the claims being made.

I just REALLY hope if we do engage with you on this video that you do engage back. Because it'd be incredibly ignorant of you to make such a big and provocative claim and expect people to engage with it and listen if you do not return the same respect.



As for my view on pornography. If those engaging are consenting adults and there are those who are then it is their choice. But the VERY important thing is, those in the porno MUST be consenting adults. Why? Well, my atheistic non-teleological form of ethics tells me so.

[MadBunny]

Interesting.

You're making some fairly large assumptions here Olivianus.

First, you're attempting to tie an effect to a cause, despite the fact that it appears unrelated.

Human trafficking, sexual slavery and prostitution have existed far, far longer than the United States has.  It has, in fact existed for thousands of years.  To attempt to tie our fairly recent constitution to it is a fallacy.

Essentially you're saying that it's 'the first amendment' that allows pornography and sex trafficking to exist, which implies that if we got rid of it and enacted some sort of censorship that it would vanish.  Empirically this is untrue.  There are countries around the world that do not have anything resembling our first amendment, AND are highly religious yet they have similar problems.

Sorry, but the answer is not that easy.



The solution, and this is one that is advocated by endslaverynow.com is that we need to educate and provide alternative opportunities along with safe social protections for women.

As for the trade of prostitution itself, don't even pretend it can ever be eradicated.  It can't, it won't.
What can be done, is it can be cleaned up, it can be made relatively safe so that it doesn't have to hide in the shadows and exist in back alleys and cheap motels.

*edit:removed mustang range security patch.

[MadBunny]

Why do I get the feeling this is going to be incredibly biased and based on distorted views of history aimed to manipulate anybody watching?

You're about right there.  They have a lot of links to endslaverynow.com which is a decent site that I suggest checking out.  I've used that other sites statistics before. 

These guys?  I'm not so sure about.

[Historicity]

In their foolish trust in experience and the empty teleological theories of ethics that accompany secular empirical thinkers that cannot see what an action will result with in the future,

The usual sprinkling of big buzzwords.  You attempted to impress but showed your ignorance.

Teleological means "having a long range purpose".    "Empirical" has no significance in the sentence.

On the other hand it was educational.  I learned that Thomas Jefferson passed the First Amendment in the 1960s.  Or maybe it was that the Atlantic slave trade before 1791 did not include sex.  Something like that.

[Ambassador Pony]

BM lol

[Quesi]

You know, I’ve spent my whole adult life working with immigrants, refugees and displaced people.  I’ve met and served a lot of victims of human trafficking.  I know women who were, as young girls tempted by promises of educational or employment, and then lured to risk their lives crossing international borders, only to find themselves unwilling victims in the sex trade industry.  I’ve worked with people who were stolen from their families and forced into military service in El Salvador and Peru as children.  I know people who were sold by their desperately poor families into domestic servitude as young as 8 years old.  I know women who lost everyone they ever loved en route to a refugee camp, only to find themselves, years later, using sex as the only currency available to them to escape the refugee camps.   In my own neighborhood, we had a household full of deaf Mexicans, who were held against their will and forced to beg in the subways. 

How dare you equate human trafficking with atheism?  I can say, with absolute confidence, that the vast majority of both victims and perpetrators are religious.  If they come from Christian countries, they are usually Christian.  If they come from Buddhist countries, they are usually Buddhist.  If they come from Muslim countries, they are usually Muslim.   The victims and the perpetrators are almost always of the same religion. 

And Kony is hot in the news right now, as a human trafficker.  And a devout Christian, hoping to bring his brand of faith to his nation.  I would really love to hear your comments on that case, as a starting point. 

[Tero]

Absolutely. If pastor Ted did not have access to porn, he would not need to seek gay sex

[albeto]

Because God would never condone human trafficking:

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.  (Exodus 21:7-11)

And God would never allow his followers to enslave others:

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.  (Exodus 21:20-21)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear.  Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.  (Ephesians 6:5)
 
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed.  If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful.  You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts.  Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.  (1 Timothy 6:1-2)

[atheola]

I'm guilty as charged..as an atheist and dad to 3 now grown girls who have never been trafficed and someone who has never one engaged in sex with anyone under 18 it's all my fault because as a single crabby old bastard I occasionally look at porn longing for the days when I could still get it up at will.. OH THE SHAME! 

[Nick]

I just want to know who let the cat out of the bag.  The "Grand Atheists Plan"  (also known as "GAP") is suppose to be highly secret.

[MadBunny]

I just want to know who let the cat out of the bag.  The "Grand Atheists Plan"  (also known as "GAP") is suppose to be highly secret.

Shhhhh!  You're not supposed to tell anybody that's what god of the GAPs means!

[ParkingPlaces]

First of all, olivanus, you seem to be under the impression that there was no porn before 1965. Not quite true. The second book published using the Gutenberg press was (wait for it) porn. I found a whole box of it in the trash after a neighbor moved out when I was five or six. I took a magazine to my mom and asked her to read me the story. That was pre-hippyville. The only thing that really changed in the sixties was that color printing got cheap.

I used to be a hippie. Free love and all that crap. We weren't into porn. Didn't need to be. We had hippie chicks. Nuf said.

Nor were we into human trafficking. On the contrary, we were very much for freedom. Everywhere.

Naive? Yep. Because just being nice doesn't get rid of the a**holes. Who were trafficking humans long before the 60's and will continue long after the Santorum's of the world take over.

Pornography exists because of the free market, not because a bunch of long-haired dudes needed to see some girls with shaved arm pits every once in a while. Human trafficking exists not because someone atheist thought it would be a good idea and opened up a McSlavealds. No, human trafficking exists because there is a market too. Just like with drugs and alcohol during prohibition and tax free cigarettes.

Do you have proof that the Marquis de Sade was an atheist? Ted Haggard? Jimmy Swaggart? Morjoe Gortner? Jim and Tammy Fae?

On top of all that. On top of ALL that, is this. For you to tell me that my freedom has to be minimized because some (not me) are trafficking in humans and others are producing illegal porn (kiddie, snuff, etc), then it means I am in a frickin' TSA security line every single second of my life. I do not, and listen to this carefully. I do not hurt others. I do not steal. I do not lie my ass off (everybody lies, but I don't do it for any other reason that to protect others and crap like that. Never as part of something nefarious). I do not play around with other men's wives, I don't cheat on the women in my life. I don't covet enough for it to count and thought I do jaywalk at times, it isn't illegal where I live. So if I am going to go to all the trouble of being a responsible human being and yet you want to throttle every freedom worth having so that America becomes this lovely spot on the map, real nirvanaish, keep this in mind. Make me a sheeple like you, make all of us sheeple like you and there will still be the following: pornography, human trafficking, drug running, street gangs, etc. The folks that do that sh*t will always be, no matter what else is going on. If for no other reason, they are obviously smarter than you.

Crime exists in and across cultures. In and across religions and non-religions. It has existed since the beginning time, and has developed as a social construct for at least as long as families and marriage and governments and everything else has existed. For you to have the gaul to be a one-issue idiot and claim that just one, and only one, social change caused all of this is to ignore everything reality has to throw at you except for that one whimpy softball. You are trying to take the easy way out of explaining a serious situation (trafficking) and a generally mediocre one (pornography). .

If this is an example of the intellectualism that formed your current world view, let me tell you, you're in trouble. If this is all the closer to right you can be on this subject, how far off do you suppose you are on ancient philosophers and raindrops?

You're yet another reason I wouldn't want to spend and eternity in a heaven. Folks like you might be there, and that would get old fast.

Edit: Jetson's post below reminded me to comment on this:

Take a big whiff of your self atheist. This is what your beliefs have produced. May Thomas Jefferson rot in Hell! Reader, do you know what the primary defense and justification for the legalization of pornography? The First Amendment.

If I get around to writing a dictionary, can I use your avatar to help illustrate the meaning of the word "cretin"?

With this post you have proven conclusively that you have the intellect of a right-wing fundamentalist fox watching limbaugh loving hannity kissing beck sucking jerk.

Which means I have to explain that to you: the above sentence was not a compliment.

[jetson]

Take a big whiff of your self atheist. This is what your beliefs have produced. May Thomas Jefferson rot in Hell! Reader, do you know what the primary defense and justification for the legalization of pornography? The First Amendment.

Jesus Christ on a fucking stick.  Is there anything about you and your views that isn't pure hatred and bigotry?

[Chronos]

The OP was created using a random forum post generator.

god created pornography.

Olivianus is mentally ill.

[sun_king]

Excellent research work Olivianus. Unbiased and unprejudiced investigations are so rare these days and even rarer are the ones where the conclusion is overwhelmingly supported by evidence provided.

It is time to bring the atheist nexus for the other evil plaguing humanity. Piracy!

Both maritime and Intellectual Property. The atheists are behind all the software piracy, video and rock music piracy, they even do porn piracy.

Expose them!

[ParkingPlaces]

The OP was created using a random forum post generator.

god created pornography.

Olivianus is mentally ill.

Well, that's okay. I just replied with random thoughts. I know he can't read, but he probably heard them whooshing over his head. Good enough for me.

[atheola]

Olly, I was going to call you names like a presumptuous assfuckwad receptor, but I'm a nice guy usually..You did it for me..

[Olivianus]

Madbunny

As for the trade of prostitution itself, don't even pretend it can ever be eradicated.  It can't, it won't.
What can be done, is it can be cleaned up, it can be made relatively safe so that it doesn't have to hide in the shadows and exist in back alleys and cheap motels.

This thread was about human trafficking, not prostitution. Human trafficking is forced kidnap and rape. Prostitution is sex for money. Very different. Second, how do you know "the trade of prostitution itself can ever be eradicated" ?

[ParkingPlaces]

Second, how do you know "the trade of prostitution itself can ever be eradicated" ?

Oh, oh. Let me answer! 

There are men in the world.

[Olivianus]

Historicity


You are not even reading what i wrote. You say

Teleological means "having a long range purpose".    "Empirical" has no significance in the sentence.

I said "thinkers that cannot see what an action will result with in the future" just to spell it out for you but you still missed it. Let  me connect the dots for you. In order to get a teleological theory to work you would need to believe the ends justifies the means and know that one action necessarily causes a uniform effect, which you cannot on the empirical method.  All you can say is that a certain effect has resulted from a certain action in the past.

On the other hand it was educational.  I learned that Thomas Jefferson passed the First Amendment in the 1960s.  Or maybe it was that the Atlantic slave trade before 1791 did not include sex.  Something like that.

I never said that Jefferson passed that amendment did I?Thomas Jefferson's writings were the inspiration of the 1st Amend. But you don't care. All you care about is running at the mouth with your insolent atheist garbage. This is why you guys don't get as much reply as you want. 

[Olivianus]

I am noticing a lot of straw man here so let me make sure my argument is being understood. I am saying that pornography produces the demand for sex slaves. It makes people sexual deviants who demand the product. The atheist sexual revolution here in america through its  grandfather the 1st amendment have spread sexual addiction all over this country creating the market and demand. 

[MadBunny]

Madbunny

As for the trade of prostitution itself, don't even pretend it can ever be eradicated.  It can't, it won't.
What can be done, is it can be cleaned up, it can be made relatively safe so that it doesn't have to hide in the shadows and exist in back alleys and cheap motels.

This thread was about human trafficking, not prostitution. Human trafficking is forced kidnap and rape. Prostitution is sex for money. Very different.

You're the one trying to tie pornography to human trafficking, specifically as it relates to prostitution and the sex trade.  Did you even read your own opening statement, or the information from the site you linked?  Take a moment and go back to read your original post.

However, on the topic of human trafficking and slavery, both have existed long before the first amendment and printed pornography.
Your argument is fallacious on that issue.

 

Second, how do you know "the trade of prostitution itself can ever be eradicated" ?

I'll assume you meant to type the word 'can't' as otherwise you'd have been in agreement with me and the context of your sentence doesn't make sense otherwise.  Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Prostitution at its most basic is a trade of sex, or even the idea of sex for favor. 
That can be money, it can be access, or it can be simply manipulation.
That won't go away.

*edit to reply to the insert below*

I am noticing a lot of straw man here so let me make sure my argument is being understood. I am saying that pornography produces the demand for sex slaves. It makes people sexual deviants who demand the product. The atheist sexual revolution here in america through its  grandfather the 1st amendment have spread sexual addiction all over this country creating the market and demand. 

Not so.  Pornography has existed long before the first amendment.

I notice that you're changing the subject here.  Didn't you just above (in my quotes) try to tell me that your topic is not about pornography but human trafficking?

Human trafficking is not entirely driven by pornography, it is apparently largely driven by economics and a disparity of rights and protections for the weak.
The first amendment, is a valuable tool for protecting those who do not normally have the power to have their voices heard.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Currently it is under attack in this country by religious influences, that is another topic though.

[jetson]

I am noticing a lot of straw man here so let me make sure my argument is being understood. I am saying that pornography produces the demand for sex slaves. It makes people sexual deviants who demand the product. The atheist sexual revolution here in america through its  grandfather the 1st amendment have spread sexual addiction all over this country creating the market and demand.

You're fucking wrong.  You are trying to connect your bullshit theories to atheism, and you're wrong.  You have failed epically, so try again.

[ParkingPlaces]

They tried a country without the first amendment. Called it the Soviet Union. It lasted about 70 years.

Still had pornography. And the whole population (sans the leaders) was being trafficked one way or the other.

So we weren't impressed.