Author Topic: My wife's idea  (Read 9472 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #58 on: March 21, 2012, 10:49:41 AM »
also a very nice post. Christians so often forget that their bible has nothing in about "helping themselves".  Interesting bit about the phrase: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helps_those_who_help_themselves
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline kaziglu bey

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 772
  • Darwins +121/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • There is no Big Brother in the sky.
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #59 on: March 21, 2012, 10:55:24 AM »
also a very nice post. Christians so often forget that their bible has nothing in about "helping themselves".  Interesting bit about the phrase: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helps_those_who_help_themselves

Believers love that phrase, and use it freely, without realizing that it does not appear in the Bible. In fact, Jesus says to take no thought for the next day, sell all your stuff, and be a wandering beggar, just like him.[1] I would prefer instead: "Those who take action in their own lives help themselves." Because that is what is really happening. Person takes X action to correct Y problem, it works. There's no need to attribute our personal successes and achievements to an imaginary friend. Give credit where credit is due.
 1.  Perhaps not an exact scriptural quote, but this is surely the gist of what JC says.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline jaimehlers

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5058
  • Darwins +578/-18
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #60 on: March 21, 2012, 02:00:27 PM »
also a very nice post. Christians so often forget that their bible has nothing in about "helping themselves".  Interesting bit about the phrase: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helps_those_who_help_themselves
Interesting as an example of how little modern Christians really know about Christianity.

Also, this explains a number of older Christian doctrines, especially before the founding of America, and shows how American secular heritage has affected religion here.

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #61 on: March 21, 2012, 02:19:49 PM »
indeed. I think it would shock most Christians that they would be considered quite the heretics by earlier Christians.
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline magicmiles

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2947
  • Darwins +180/-73
  • Gender: Male
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #62 on: March 21, 2012, 03:09:23 PM »
Grimm - thankyou for your detailed response.

It's great that you're able to do work for less privilleged folk in your area. I'm sorry that in trying to make a point I attacked you personally.

Here's a question for all - what does cause African children to starve? If it isn't your fault, is it anybodies?
Go on up you baldhead.

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11129
  • Darwins +293/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #63 on: March 21, 2012, 03:10:11 PM »
Here's a question for all - what does cause African children to starve? If it isn't your fault, is it anybodies?

Lots of things.
As for whose fault it is, per your religion, your god is to blame.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6866
  • Darwins +925/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #64 on: March 21, 2012, 03:20:18 PM »
Grimm - thankyou for your detailed response.

It's great that you're able to do work for less privilleged folk in your area. I'm sorry that in trying to make a point I attacked you personally.

Here's a question for all - what does cause African children to starve? If it isn't your fault, is it anybodies?
Primarily warfare. Helped along by the global arms trade. People can't grow food when they are being shot at. Warfare causes people to flee their homes and become refugees. That's when they run out of food and start to starve.

If our society broke down into civil war and after a few weeks the stores were all empty, we would starve even quicker than these people. Most of us don't own any land, don't know how to grow any food and don't know how to raise animals. 

So, when these incredibly knowedgeable and resourceful people are starving, you know that things have been getting bad for a very long time. It takes at least two years for civil war to lead to starvation, because these folks know how to survive drought and lean times. They have grain stored and seeds saved. They have cattle. They are used to working very hard and walking miles to look for water.

Starvation is not a normal way of life for anyone; it is a sign of complete societal breakdown. It takes a targeted, concerted effort by truly evil people to create starvation like what is shown in those photos. After all, how bad would life have to get before you would let your kids end up like this? Same for the people in Somalia.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline kaziglu bey

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 772
  • Darwins +121/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • There is no Big Brother in the sky.
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #65 on: March 21, 2012, 03:37:33 PM »

Here's a question for all - what does cause African children to starve? If it isn't your fault, is it anybodies?
Poverty in Africa is rampant. All of the European visitors (Christians) over the centuries who kidnapped people for slaves and colonized their homeland only served to exacerbate pre-existing local enmities, fracture traditional ways of life, and reduce many of the natives to the lowest class. European countries would find people that would work with them, and encourage them to slaughter and enslave their neighbors who might resist these foreign usurpers. Unchecked reproduction rates, lack of food, and an inherited tradition of poverty and worst class status have become the norm, as there are still groups in many countries rivaling for power, who have centuries old feuds, but now have AK47s and grenade launchers as opposed to spears and bows. Blood thirsty warlords ravage the land as they vie for power, and the largely poor and powerless majority just get trampled underneath. All of this because some good old Christians decided they needed a place to get a lot of slaves, and used their filthy teachings to justify subjugating an entire continent and dooming its inhabitants to centuries of bloodshed, chaos, and destitution.

What has religion done to solve this problem? What has God done? Well, if you're Catholic, God told the Pope that condoms are immoral and increase the spread of AIDS. One simple thing that would both help bring the exploding population under control and prevent the spread of numerous VD's including HIV, and the Catholic Church condemns it. There's plenty of Catholics in Africa, and being largely undereducated and likely superstitious, they are quite likely to do whatever the Vatican, God's personal earthly emissary (in their eyes) tells them to do. Muslim groups in Africa and other places spread the lie that polio vaccines were really poison, meant to render the recipients impotent, infertile, or kill them outright. Thus a disease that is largely a memory to most 1st world nations spread back to places that it had already been nearly wiped out, causing additional suffering and misery and death.

In child abuse, there are two types of perpetrators. A perp by commission, and a perp by omission. A perp by commission is someone that actively engages in the abuse. A perp by omission is someone who was aware of the abuse, perhaps even seen it occur, yet took no action to try to prevent it or alert someone who could (police, CPS). God is all seeing, all knowing, and all powerful. He could do something to prevent the suffering and death of all of those children (and adults) in Africa. He does not. Therefore, I submit that God is a perp by omission, at the very least. Considering all of the things that he has allowed to be done in his name, I think he might even be said to have committed such offenses himself.

Personally, I am proud not to be a slave to such a ghastly monster and his terrifying legacy.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline JeffPT

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2093
  • Darwins +236/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm a lead farmer mutha fucka
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #66 on: March 21, 2012, 03:46:15 PM »
Here's a question for all - what does cause African children to starve? If it isn't your fault, is it anybodies?

If I had to make a guess at it, I would say that the reason African children starve is the same reason any other living thing on the planet would starve... lack of food. 

Fault is an interesting notion here.  To me, that implies that someone screwed up somewhere.  If you are going to argue that, then you must take each instance on a case by case basis and identify the factors that played into it. 

You may argue that it is the fault of every human being on the planet that children starve to death in Africa.  I don't know if that is where you are going with the question, but we've heard that one before.  The thing is... not one of us is omnipotent, and most people struggle to survive as it is without having the added burden of millions of starving Africans on their shoulders.  Now, if God exists, and he has the power (with a simple thought no less) to stop children everywhere from starving, and he does not do it, then God is, by FAR, more culpable than any of us humans.  To use a very simple analogy here; if I had the power to give food to starving children (every day for the rest of their life) with a simple thought, and I did not do it, I would think the blame would come to me.  Or worse yet, if I were father to everyone on the planet, and chose to give ample supplies of food to fat, greedy, gun toting, stock car driving, bible belt Christians, while telling the starving African children to go fuck themselves, I would expect the world to turn on me violently and rightfully so. 

I'm with kaziglu bey.  Very happy I don't worship that monster.
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Online Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6773
  • Darwins +542/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #67 on: March 21, 2012, 04:28:35 PM »
Here's a question for all - what does cause African children to starve? If it isn't your fault, is it anybodies?
That’s a good question and would suit a separate thread.

As it is:

1.   Starvation is cause by a lack of money, not a lack of food.
2.   If you have $1million, you would be unlucky to starve – you could eat at the best restaurants for a long time.
3.   The trouble is that the starving end up in refugee camps because the land cannot support that many people per acre.[1]
4.   The history of mankind is one of the land not being able to support the people. Starvation is nature’s way of telling us there are too many of us in the area.
5.   Underfed women are not very fertile but while there is food, there will be children.
6.   When the children arrive, there may not be food or enough food.
7.   The children die, there are less mouths, there is less fertility, then,
8.   When numbers are reasonable, breeding begins again.
9.   Medicine is used to save children from dying – the population rises.
10.   The cycle repeats.
11.   Today they go to refugee camps
12.   People in refugee camps produce nothing; they live on a subsistence diet paid for by others.
13.   They have no money because the countries where people starve have no marketable goods or skills.
14.   They have no marketable goods or skills because they have no education or infrastructure.
15.   They have no education or infrastructure because people will not pay the price of production of what they have – they will only pay the market price.
16.   The price of production is high because they can’t afford the machinery or the energy costs, they do not have the skills to run it, process it, manufacture it and deliver it.
17.   In countries where they starve, the domestic market is weak,[2] so there is little technology or demand, so there are few factories producing anything.
18.   The export market is entirely dependent upon foreign entrepreneurs who wish to buy low, cover their transport costs and sell high.

A sobering thought is that wealth inequality keeps the west alive. If we all earned the average wage of the world we would all starve.

People starve that we might live.

If my name were Darwin, I would write a book… if I could think of a title…

 1. You may say that it is war that causes the problem, but that is simply to sidestep the problem: if everyone had had enough, there would have been no war.
 2. The demand for copper in Zambia is low but they are a major producer.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Grimm

  • Professional Windmill Tilter
  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 826
  • Darwins +61/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Apparently, the Dragon to be Slain
    • The Hexadecimal Number of the Beast
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #68 on: March 21, 2012, 07:30:02 PM »
Grimm - thankyou for your detailed response.

It's great that you're able to do work for less privilleged folk in your area. I'm sorry that in trying to make a point I attacked you personally.

Here's a question for all - what does cause African children to starve? If it isn't your fault, is it anybodies?

No problem, Magicmiles - I need to learn to be a bit more rational when addressing this particular thought - it's a hotbutton for me, and you had no way of knowing.

Regardless - I'm going to say something most other folks here are going to grouse at me about:

It's everyone's fault.  Everybody's.  From the people who are victims to the ones doing the victimizing, to we, in first-world nations that, by our existence and the models of current commerce exploit others, and to those who just like shooting guns at people who scream and bleed.

Even with that, as a whole, the world right now, in the sorry state in which we see it, is still far better, far less violent, far closer to something akin to a sort of universal brotherhood and conscientiousness than it has been in any decade previous to this one.  (http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html - there are other sources, this one's just a good one).  We live in an age when, frankly, problems that we thought were absolutely insurmountable do have solutions, even in the face of greed and the insatiable appetite some have for power.

This largely coincides with two things:  access to information and the rise of common understanding.  In areas of the world where access to information is ready, easy, and unfettered, people tend to have more of a sort of 'social consciousness'; they start to see how they things they do affect the world around them, both for good and ill.  You can see it in the US in microcosm; in the rural, deep south, violence motivated by personal, religious, and racial motives far outstrips the more urban northeast and west, while the 'middle belt' of the US (Tennessee and west through the Plains), which is slowly modernizing in a different way seems to be finding a different path to those lower rates of violent crime.

The point, I suppose, is that as long as we all recognize that we can do something, whether that's locally, regionally, nationally, or internationally - and we do it, then this world will get steadily better.  Doing that has to come with the realization that 'fault' is pointless - everyone can do something, and if everyone did, well.  These problems wouldn't exist.

Simple, right?  Nobody gets any righteousness as long as someone's starving, someone doesn't have access to medicine, or someone is being trampled by a warlord somewhere. 

To a humanist, to most atheists, this is the only life anyone has.  There is no afterlife - seeing those starving kids drives home the point that their lives are precious for that simple fact.  If I can make it better - if I can make somebody else's better, and they can do that for someone else, or maybe that inspires someone else to do something good - maybe my little actions will pay it forward somehow, maybe it'll make a difference.

When Haiti's earthquakes happened, I sent blankets and donated to the Red Cross.  A local church sent electronic bibles.  Which one of us, do you think, did them more good?

Anyway, that's the end point.  We all have to do something, and 'enabling prayer' isn't doing anything at all.  And these guys can go on all day about history and fault, and they're even right - but that doesn't change anything going forward. 
"But to us, there is but one god, plus or minus one."  - 1 Corinthians 8:6+/-2

-- Randall, XKCD http://xkcd.com/900/

Offline Zankuu

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2113
  • Darwins +133/-3
  • Gender: Male
    • I am a Forum Guide
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #69 on: May 02, 2012, 12:32:44 PM »
I can't help but notice mm hasn't bothered to respond to HAL's replies #33, #35, #37, or #39. I'd wager it's because they're fucking difficult to answer. But hey, maybe mm just didn't see them.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #70 on: May 02, 2012, 12:46:02 PM »
I can't help but notice mm hasn't bothered to respond to HAL's replies #33, #35, #37, or #39. I'd wager it's because they're fucking difficult to answer. But hey, maybe mm just didn't see them.

pretty much.  MM has decided he just wants to play here and not bother answering anything too hard. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3948
  • Darwins +265/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #71 on: May 02, 2012, 12:54:18 PM »

pretty much.  MM has decided he just wants to play here and not bother answering anything too hard.
Like, say for instance, Why won't God Heal Amputees?
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Alzael

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3577
  • Darwins +112/-23
  • Gender: Male
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #72 on: May 02, 2012, 01:29:28 PM »
I can't help but notice mm hasn't bothered to respond to HAL's replies #33, #35, #37, or #39. I'd wager it's because they're fucking difficult to answer. But hey, maybe mm just didn't see them.

MM basically talks for a bit and then runs away. It seems to be easier for him than thinking.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline Ivellios

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1077
  • Darwins +52/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Seek and Ye Shall Find
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #73 on: May 02, 2012, 01:46:51 PM »
Of course, it's so much easier to just parrot what someone else said than to consider that you might actually be incorrect. In my opinion Grimm should also have slapped him with, "Thou shall not judge, lest ye be judged." I wouldn't like my efforts would be attributed to god, by people thanking god instead of recognizing who actually did the helping, however, people also thank god for the immutable inevitable future.  "Thank god it's now 7." Well, gee, all you had to do was wait.... or sleep. It'd be 7 exactly after y amount of time had passed after x.  &)

Christins are so used to belittling themselves and others, they don't recognice how demeaning and stupid it is.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12550
  • Darwins +703/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #74 on: May 02, 2012, 02:13:32 PM »
Of course, it's so much easier to just parrot what someone else said than to consider that you might actually be incorrect.

That is actually how the brain works.  It does this in two ways. 

First, it uses cached thoughts.  The brain does not have enough horse power to think through everything, so it uses a kind of "fill in the blank" technique as often as possible.

The other is Consistency.  People try to be consistent because it saves brain power.  For example, if you are a republican, you might for the sake of consistency (and not having to think too hard) go along with policies you have not even thought about, just because they are republic policies.  And you are a republican afterall.  Dems do the same.  Everyone does.  We cannot help it much.
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Historicity

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2350
  • Darwins +80/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • (Rama, avatar of Vishnu)
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #75 on: May 08, 2012, 06:53:56 PM »
Africa has another economic problem:  brain drain.

I'll give an example from Florida.   A tourist here years ago wanted to try skydiving.  At that time they didn't start with a training jump strapped to an instructor.  The tourist saw he was drifting into trees so somehow he decided to cut the chute and reopen with the reserve.  He was too close to the ground and the 2nd chute never opened.  A man videotaping it could be heard to wail "Oh, noooo".

But he hit a swamp and merely broke his leg.  And he was interviewed on TV.   He was an African.  But he wasn't from Africa.  He was a very bright lad, very good at his education in a former British colony so he had shaken off the "little town blues" and moved to the big time, which meant London.  He was a successful stockbroker, succesful enough that he could jet over to America for some down time.  I'm sure he sends money back to his family in Africa but he doesn't try to do something like banking or industry there.

Offline BornAgainAtheist

  • Student
  • **
  • Posts: 67
  • Darwins +4/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Spell Check
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #76 on: June 01, 2012, 12:10:50 PM »

Two of the references in my signature show examples of this...though not the same things people are referring to in this thread.

Yeah, well, the references in your signature are crap and an example of fools finding verses in isolation, giving no regard to context and quite blatantly getting in wrong.

You claim Deuteronomy 22:24 condones the stoning of a rape victim, wrong. Read verse 25 and 26 as well.

Of course, you'll probably claim that any sort of capital punishment for adultery or sexual mis-conduct is evil, but then again, you can't claim any absolute morality even exists, so on what standard you'd judge this evil is up for question.

I've read the entirety of Deuteronomy 22 and know it's context, the only reason I've isolated it is because I'm taking a specific example. Before I put the quotes in my signature I read the entire sections AND in multiple translations. The case for the first item (about the listening to the Old Testament), I looked up more than 1 quote in the bible to suggest it, but I chose the one. The reason my signature is so limited is because this forum restricts the number of characters in your signature and it'd mess up the forum if I had something in a lot more detail.

Verse 25 is specific to being out in the country and not in a town. If in a town the woman has to scream, if she does not then she is considered guilty and in that instance the rape victim would be stoned to death.

For your reference:
Quote
25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die.
Verse 26 says not to punish the woman in verse 25.

Verse 26 does not apply to verse 24, which is the punishment (stoning) for the man AND woman in verse 23 (in the city when the woman does not scream).

Read verse 27 and you'll see the reasoning for verse 26, it's because nobody could rescue her if she screamed.

The last time I addressed this situation, I listed a number of reasons why a woman might not scream if raped. Being threatened with violence would be one, but the reasons are not limited to that.

It also says from verse 28 onwards , if they're discovered the rapist must marry their rape victim.

ALSO in verses 13 to 19 there are regulations surrounding the claims of a woman who is not a virgin on her marriage, but specifies no separate regulations for if the woman was previously raped. If followed strictly to the law it would mean rape victims who are found to NOT be virgins are to be stoned anyway!

What's even more disturbing, this EXACT punishment was recently delivered in Morocco (marriage to the rapist). From what I understand, it was based on Islamic law, but then Islam draws from the Old Testament as Christian does too. I don't know the specific laws for Islam, but I am not surprised this kind of thing would be repeated elsewhere as the 3 Abrahamic Religions draw from belief in the SAME God.



As for having no absolute morality, my morality is based on the reduction of suffering and what's best for those involved, in some ways similar to utilitarianism and I don't know if it'd strike you as weird, but similar to parts of Buddhism as well. A vague explanation, I know, but going into depth would detract from the topic. There is also a Christian version of moral relativity similar to utilitarianism called 'Situation Ethics', if that's something you'd more easily relate to.

But as you've got the bible, I take it you follow its moral absolutism?

Then perhaps you can tell me: Do you believe the punishments lined out in Deuteronomy's Regulations for Sexual Purity to be just? And do you believe because they are the word of God that should therefore still apply? Especially as Jesus said that these old laws still do apply.

[edit]

Perhaps my last few questions should refer to more specifically parts where the 'Sexual Impurity' involves/can involve the punishment of a rape victim. Although I believe capital punishment is too extreme for adultery, but I do not want my questions to involve that part, because I am talking specifically about the victims of rape.

I'm going out on a limb here but I'm going to guess MagicMiles will avoid answering your question about "Deuteronomical Morality".  He'll probably just tell a joke about how fanny means vagina in Australia and ignore it.   &)
My hair is a bird.  Your argument is invalid.

Offline blue

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 364
  • Darwins +8/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Not cool, Zeus.
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #77 on: June 01, 2012, 04:13:20 PM »

I'm going out on a limb here but I'm going to guess MagicMiles will avoid answering your question about "Deuteronomical Morality".  He'll probably just tell a joke about how fanny means vagina in Australia and ignore it.   &)

Miles has left us actually. To bad, in my opinion.
There’s no difference between a bunch of theologians sitting around debating scripture than a bunch of D&D nerds sitting around debating which version of the Player’s Handbook to use.

Offline Seppuku

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3855
  • Darwins +125/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • I am gay for Fred Phelps
    • Seppuku Arts
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #78 on: June 01, 2012, 04:32:56 PM »
Fanny means the same thing here in the UK. ;)

But yes, MM has left us, I'm still in contact via email as are some other members.
“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto Musashi
Warning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

Offline rickymooston

Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #79 on: June 05, 2012, 05:34:30 AM »
Smiles unlike many atheists i'm not offended by your OP

However, I take a Taoist tact on it. What is a "bad" situation? We are always given the option to either adapt or die. Sometimes there are silver linings to bad situations; needless to say we learn from adversity.

If believing in God causes you to look or the postive, go for it.

As for wasting your time on the forum, it depends on your objectives. By expressing yourself and engaging others you learn. What you learn depends on you

Bad analogy. The homeless can see the reason I buy/give them food instead of dollars, they're not idiots.

If we assume the homeless person is honest and not drug addicted or mentally ill, as many of them are, there are problems with hand to mouth donations. THey never leave the cycle of dependency.

THe analogy may be bad, I am unsure.

It goes without saying many are indeed in need of medical attention or drug addicted (possibly needing help if they are open to that).
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1247
  • Darwins +129/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • I'm Your Nurse, Not Your Waitress...
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2012, 12:23:23 AM »
I used to cross paths with this "street person" walking to work.  He was usually drunk & pretty obnoxious to a lot of people but I thought he was pretty funny & he was usually cool with me. Once I had a bunch of treats I was bringing for a co-worker's birthday so I gave him a couple. His reaction surprised me.  He was so humble & grateful as if noone ever gave him anything... and I realised noone probably did...
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6866
  • Darwins +925/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2012, 09:12:33 PM »
I used to cross paths with this "street person" walking to work.  He was usually drunk & pretty obnoxious to a lot of people but I thought he was pretty funny & he was usually cool with me. Once I had a bunch of treats I was bringing for a co-worker's birthday so I gave him a couple. His reaction surprised me.  He was so humble & grateful as if noone ever gave him anything... and I realised noone probably did...

Sometimes we forget that homeless people are people first and homeless second.  :-[
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline kcrady

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1317
  • Darwins +427/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Your Friendly Neighborhood Cephalopod Overlord
    • My blog
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #82 on: July 21, 2012, 02:12:02 AM »
Wrong. Look at the Lords prayer, Jesus' response to His disciples when He was asked how to pray. "Your will be done"

Well alright then.  Guess there's no reason to pray after all, right?  If we don't ask Yahweh to do what he wants to do, what, is he gonna go do something he doesn't wanna do instead?  If we just go about our lives not bothering him, leaving him to do what he wants, and not clogging up his spam filter with verbose entreaties to do what he's going to do anyway, then we save time and he's not constantly getting spammed with crap he's got no reason to pay attention to (because he's gonna do what he wants anyway).  Everybody wins!  So why is the Bible so chock full of all this crap about praying?  "People?  Uh, hello, people?  You don't need to pray.  Trust me, I got this.  Alright?" would take up just one verse.
"The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks."

--Greta Christina

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6866
  • Darwins +925/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #83 on: July 21, 2012, 05:44:41 PM »
Exactly. Like an all-powerful god would do what people told him to do anyway.


Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline parkpatrol

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #84 on: October 24, 2012, 10:43:12 AM »
It's possible to apply that to God with any sort of prayer request - He will do what He knows to be in our best interests, even if we don't agree or see the reason.

This gives a loophole for theists to claim that "God" answers all prayers one way or another and that praying is never in vain. It's easier to admit you've been conned believe me!

Online Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6773
  • Darwins +542/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #85 on: October 25, 2012, 05:44:06 AM »
Of course, praayer is a stupid thing anyway - if you believe God knows best, he is either (i) doing what you are praying for or (ii) your suggestion is stupid and contrary to His Plan.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Brakeman

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1243
  • Darwins +47/-3
  • Gender: Male
Re: My wife's idea
« Reply #86 on: October 25, 2012, 05:58:40 AM »
Christian prayer makes sense under my hypotheses that god is so old he's senile. ;)

The christians have to constantly conjole him into doing "his will" in order to gain what they want. Otherwise he'd just wander off in heaven and get lost somewhere.
Help find the cure for FUNDAMENTIA !