WTF??? Man is sin!!!! Fallen!!! Hello??? What part of the OT don't you understand??? We need a Savior!!! The OT is a type and shadow of what the NT is. Read the posts about Abraham and Issac. Jesus was/is the final sacrifice! Receive it Brother!!!
This may be news to you, but it is generally considered proper forum etiquette to actually give a meaningful response to things that people post, in a way that directly addresses or refutes what the poster has said. You have failed miserably with this post.
Whoa! Relax! I can't cure anyone!
Then I submit that your faith is a lie. Jesus clearly said that his followers would do greater works than even he did and that they would merely lay hands on the sick, and they would recover (Mark 16:17-18). Thus, considering that Jesus was alleged to have done healing miracles,
you should be capable of truly awesome healing powers. Again, this is according to Jesus. Are you calling Jesus a liar?
And I'm not trying to preach (although I may come across that way).
Well, whatever you are
trying to do, you are preaching.
However, if you look at the fact that Jesus did live (you need to read the book "The case for Christ" which examined the historical evidence proving Jesus lived, and that His life is more factual and conclusive than the case for Plato.
I'm willing to grant that a person named Jesus lived about 2,000 years ago. In fact, the Bible mentions two people named Jesus: Jesus Christ, and Jesus Barabas. Conveniently, most Bibles nowadays omit the first name of Barabas, whose last name means "son of the father". So, there were at least two "rebellious Jesuses" walking around at this time, both of whom could be considered the "son of the father". Being able to demonstrate that a person named Jesus lived at such a time doesn't do much for you case, as it gives me no reason at all to believe that his paternity was divine.
I know, I know, you know Plato lived! It's just that the historical texts are more conclusive/factual for the life of Jesus than Plato, that it is fact).
I'm curious, how many 1st century, original, eyewitness documents are cited as reference in this book? I'm guessing zero.
I know facts are stubborn things, but that's the way it is.
Not nearly as stubborn as those who dismiss reality for fantasy.
So it boils down to: do you believe that Jesus claimed who He said He was is true?
Believing in it wouldn't make it true. It would make the believer delusional.
Or was He a lunatic? or a liar?
Quite obviously, both.
So which is it? Lunatic, Liar, or who He said He was? Or do you go against facts that He never existed?
Lots of people say that they are the son of God. Ironically, those people nowadays are, in fact, considered insane. Imagine that. It's absolutely amazing to me that you can take two highly probable explanations (liar or lunatic) and dismiss them in favor of the arrogant belief that he died for you. You're a real intellectual heavy weight, aren't you? By the way, you have already de facto admitted that Jesus was a liar, since you do not possess the super healing powers that he
promised you will have. If Jesus said his followers (you) would have super healing powers, and his followers (again, you) do not possess any such super healing powers, then by definition Jesus is a liar. That's not the only thing he lied about either. His second coming did not occur in the lifetime of those whom he spoke to (again, as Jesus promised he would). One need only to look at the Bible to determine that Jesus and God are both liars.
By the way, regarding having a go at Islam, the Bible is very clear about false prophets!
Indeed it is. The Bible very clearly states that false prophets are to be put to death. How many false prophets have you killed for Jesus today? If you really believed in the Bible and its truth and inerrancy, you would be a false prophet bounty hunter. I think it is reasonable for me to assume that you don't do this. If you don't, you are NOT doing what your God has commanded you to do. Enjoy the flames, buddy, they're eternal!
Study the same historical (non-Biblical) texts about Plato, Jesus, Etc.; and Mohammed. Don't take the Bibles word for it (although it comes to the same conclusion). Unfortunately, we have such a westernized view of Islam, that we don't/can't understand the impact/importance of the immensity of it. It can only come from an understanding of the book of Revelation when it talks about the false prophet.......
Fortunately for me, it is not necessary to do this. I've have already conceded that it was possible that a man named Jesus Christ lived in the middle east 2,000 years ago. I'm not arguing that. I think it would be very difficult for any historical work to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that the same Jesus Christ was the son of god, and not just any god, but Yahweh. Note that there is nothing in the Bible that would preclude the
existence of other gods. In fact, particularly in the OT, it is clear that there are in fact
many other gods, but since Yahweh is jealous (why should an all powerful being ever have reason to be jealous??!?!) he commands that anyone who doesn't follow him specifically should be put to death.
I should of
should
have added that there are missionaries all throughout the Middle East.
Yep, convincing mostly destitute and miserable people that if they don't accept Jesus, their misery will continue for all eternity. What a valuable service.
It is very difficult being a Christan in the Middle East.
Why? Doesn't God grant his followers some kind of special protection? And what does death matter do a Christian, if they are fallen and sinful and have nothing to look forward to in this life, but everything to look forward to in death?
In the west we just get mocked,
And rightly so. Just as you would be mocked if you believed that by dying a glorious death in battle, you will be snatched up by the Valkyries and lead straight to the Golden Hall of Valhalla.
in the Middle East they get killed.
Yes, by people who worship the same god but in a different way, and have just as righteous of a sense of belief and self entitlement as the missionaries. Note, if missionaries didn't go to the middle east, they wouldn't be killed in the middle east. But of course, it is absurd for me to expect a Christian to bear any sort of personal responsibility or accountability for their own choices and actions. That was wiped out with your human sacrifice. Note also that the middle east is the "Holy Land", a land that has seen nothing but violence, racism, and ethnic cleansing for thousands of years, done by God's followers on all sides and always justified loudly by these followers through their Holy Books (which do, in fact, give blanket approval to such actions). What a holy place, indeed.
Huh? Jesus died for you.
Prove it.
If you were the only one who would have believed in Him, He would have gone to the cross.
Then he's a dumbass.
God acted in faith!
This is quite possibly the most absurd thing you have said yet. An all powerful, all knowing entity, who has had our destinies determined since even before we were born (having trouble finding the verse that says this, but it's definitely there, and being an expert on the matter, you should already know this) could not possibly ever have any reason for faith. You can't have God be both puppet master and puppet.
Your question does not make sense in the whole scope of the Bible. Help me out here,
This post of yours was actually in reply to ParkingPlaces, and there was no question asked of you. Perhaps you are hallucinating?
if you believe that when you die you're just dirt, then no explanation is needed; then go to dirt!
Funny, I thought that Christians also thought that we returned to dirt (or dust) upon death. Oddly enough also, there is no evidence to the contrary.
Quit posting here.
And exactly who are you addressing here? Who the hell are you to tell Atheists to stop posting Atheistic ideas on an Atheist forum? There's that arrogant sense of self entitlement and willingness to dominate other people that is such a common trait among believers. This is an atheist forum. If
you don't like what is being said, no one's making you come here, you can feel free to leave if you like. Perhaps you could actually do God's work by volunteering to be a missionary in the Middle East. Since death, to a believer, means great rewards, you should have absolutely no fear of doing so. Any fear or reticence on your part to do this is an indication that perhaps you really
don't believe in this.
But if you are actually wondering if you continue to live, then ask us about eternity.
Who's "us"? Do you have dissociative identity disorder or something? If by "us" you mean "believers" then asking believers is no use, since they all have a different idea of how that eternity thing goes down. Frankly though, I'm simply not stupid enough to actually believe that in spite of being dead I can still be alive. That is a fool's hope.
