Author Topic: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?  (Read 6364 times)

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Offline gonegolfing

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2012, 08:36:53 AM »

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How would you even be aware of him if it weren't for the bible? Of course you believe because of what the bible says.


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When I first believed, it was by word of mouth

Classic gullibility. Us humans are notorious for doing that  ;)  Do you believe in ET's and ETUFO's ? Thousands have testified of them by word of mouth. Surely you do then ?

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I heard the good news and simply believed. It wasn't that I had read the Bible and studied or that i was churched or anything like that. Not that I didn't later read it though. I'm not even sure I've read the full Bible in it's entirety actually to date.

This explains a lot !!. You must read the entire thing--a few times--with an open mind and see where it leads you. Perhaps you'll stand by it, but I can guarantee that your attitude towards it, and perhaps even the god idea, will change somewhat.

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I believe that GOD confirms faith. And The Holy Bible testifies to the truth, which is Jesus Christ who taught this faith. And yes, The Holy Bible testifies of this. So no, it not just because The Holy Bible says so.  But when you trust GOD, believe and have faith from what is "taught" from Jesus within The Holy Bible.

Not so. You've got it backwards. Instead, your blind faith confirms the god idea for you. You have no physical experience with, and zero evidence for, a god in reality and therefore no confirmation of anything pertaining to the truth of the idea itself. And all the bible does is testify to the truth of the blind faith and delusions of the ancient Hebrew race, and that their delusions were built upon by others gullible in the 3 centuries CE that followed and ended up making a legend out of a rebellious Jewish rabbi who supposedly taught people to have this blind faith in himself as the miraculous sin absolving son of god.

Your belief in the supernatural is to believe in an hypothesis only, not a reality.

I'm being as sincere as I can be....you cannot confirm anything about the truth of the god idea in our current reality. Not a thing. And ancient texts do not either. I'm sorry but that's just the way it is. Objectively, you have nothing. Subjectively you feel you have everything. That's nice and all, but the fact is that you have zero current evidence for either and therefore have nothing but a belief.

In all your discussions, you have not, and are currently not, proving the modern times real existence of any supernatural entities or gods, 

You're verifying your feelings to us, but that's it.

Cheers
"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2012, 09:55:18 AM »
So.... has anyone figured it out yet...?
Figured what out?  That you are a theist who has no evidence for his claims and who is quite ignorant about many things including his own supposed religion?  Yep, got that. 
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I wished you guys really knew how much GOD really loves you all. Seriously. All of us in fact.
Love requires evidence. Where is it, ILY?  I know my husband loves me because of what he does.  What had your god done to show me, or anyone, any love?  And I wonder, how do you define love?  I define it as being concerned for someone's well being, helping them achieve what is important to them, protecting them from any harm. 

I see jtp is back and making baseless claims again.  No evidence for some man/god that was murdered by himself for himself to clean up its mess depicted in myths.   Oh and ILY, citing characters that only are evidently fictional is simply nonsense again.
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I have a question for you... What if it was brought to you attention that GOD was real, w/o any doubts and that He loves you more than you ever realized...?Would you guys please consider the question and answer honestly. Please and thank you.
I like how you would try to claim that people would not answer you "honestly".  I wonder, will you use that as an excuse if you get answers you don't like, that you magically know that we were being dishonest.   As has been said, your god is not demonstrated as a loving god, so you would have to postulate another deity.  If there were a god that showed that they loved people by protecting them, helping them, etc?  I’d consider it.  For instance, I play role-playing games like Dungeons & Dragons; the worlds that I play in have gods for them and I’ve played priests and paladins to them.  Some of those gods aren’t too bad at all.  Chauntea is the goddess of agriculture and helps humans with their crops, farm animals, etc.  We have Ilmater, the god who helps people when they are suffering.  There’s Helm, god of protection and Torm god of honor. A good one for paladins is Tyr, god of justice.  They’re not omnipotent/omniscient deities, being in a pantheon,  but they are considered good.  All of them are vastly better than your god.  One of them I’d consider worshipping if I had evidence it was real.  Not your god with its primitive approval of slavery, of genocide against anyone who doesn’t worship it, etc.  I have no time for such a god, since I’m demonstrably better than it.
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Offline Omen

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2012, 11:02:16 AM »
Nothing in christianity can rationally be described as loving.  Your not honest in your portrayal of your own religious nonsense.  We don't have to engage in the same delusional level of intellectual dishonesty.

The hypothetical that your religious nonsense is true invites countless more internal contradictions as to make it impossible to take seriously.  Your frequent use of equivocation and dishonest behavior just guarantee you'll never be honest or sincere enough to participate in a discussion.

So Jesus taking your sins in His own body upon the cross for you is not loving?  Share the dope you've been smoking!

No, it is not.

I am deemed guilty before I exist for something I can't rationally take responsibility for or of, then redemption is offered through compulsion under a threat of violence.

That isn't love, that has more to do with relationship of an abusive parent with a victimized child.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 11:08:04 AM by Omen »
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline Omen

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #61 on: March 16, 2012, 11:06:39 AM »
  Please be honest here.

With out GOD, life wouldn't make any sense to me. All I know is that I have been given this gift...

You don't actually know anything and can't honestly claim to know anything, you demean and attack the only means to attain knowledge for the sake of protecting your cognitive dissonance.  Your own hypocrisy destroys your own assertions.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #62 on: March 16, 2012, 11:06:51 AM »
How everything is positioned and tuned perfectly to sustain life. It is amazing.

Sorry, that argument is just pure bullshit. This tells me you are either blind or stupid.

The vast majority of plant matter is poisonous to us. Many animals consider us food. Most of the Earth's surface is water where we can't live, and it's salt water which we can't drink. Huge sections of the remaining surface are far too cold or hot for mankind to survive. Not to mention plagues, tornados, hurricanes, tsunamis, wildfires, earthquakes....

What is amazing is that we can survive despite all of this.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Online One Above All

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #63 on: March 16, 2012, 11:08:47 AM »
What is amazing is that we can survive despite all of this.

Now watch as ILOVEYOU's goalpost changes...
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline rev45

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #64 on: March 16, 2012, 11:13:00 AM »
To expand a bit on joebbowers post.  The universe hates life.
Here read a book.  It's free.
http://www.literatureproject.com/

Could a being create the fifty billion galaxies, each with two hundred billion stars, then rejoice in the smell of burning goat flesh?   Ron Patterson

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #65 on: March 16, 2012, 11:19:20 AM »
I'm not sure I will be posting anymore at this point. It's understood that I am not wanted here.

Take care,
ILOVEYOU

Online One Above All

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #66 on: March 16, 2012, 11:22:33 AM »
If you had actually made a single worthwhile contribution, you wouldn't feel that way. Virtually everything you've done is preach and be condescending.

Oh well.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline Omen

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #67 on: March 16, 2012, 11:41:38 AM »
I'm not sure I will be posting anymore at this point. It's understood that I am not wanted here.

Take care,
ILOVEYOU

I'd love for you to stick around, you serve as the evidence to support the case that christianity promotes cult like anti-intellectualism and repetitious indoctrination of mindless authoritarian dogma.  You are the best argument against christianity.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 01:13:10 PM by Omen »
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline JeffPT

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #68 on: March 16, 2012, 12:22:53 PM »
First, let me say thank you for being the first person to step up and answer honestly. I can respect that.

No problem.

I can totally relate with everything you've just said. And I have thought the same things before as well. 'Cept the part about wanting to die earlier.

Dude, you'd get to go to the greatest place in the history of the universe and stay there forever.  Why wouldn't you want to go right now?  It would be like someone dangling a permanent vacation in Hawaii in front of your face and you saying... 'Nope.  Don't want it right now, thanks.'   

As far as asking questions, sure.  Not that I do not think a direct download to the brain is to much for GOD. In my experience, GOD has brought me through an example in my life. Not a verbal conversation but a living example. More personal.

I'm sorry, but those are just words that mean nothing.  It probably makes you feel good, and probably feels like you really are explaining something, but in truth, it's just words that at the individual level, I understand, but strung together like you have, mean zilch. 

As far as hell is concerned, I remember just speaking and saying I didn't want to go there and that I wouldn't want anyone to go there.

You are infinitely more likely to go to hell if God exists than if no god exists.   :)   
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline Historicity

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #69 on: March 16, 2012, 01:22:00 PM »
To expand a bit on joebbowers post.  The universe hates life.

"Nature's way?  Nature is trying to kill us."
--------Curt Goetz, People Will Talk (1951), as said by his character, Dr. Praetorius played by Cary Grant.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 01:24:57 PM by Historicity »

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #70 on: March 16, 2012, 01:37:13 PM »
I'm not sure I will be posting anymore at this point. It's understood that I am not wanted here.

Take care,
ILOVEYOU

I'm not sure what your intention was in coming here. Do you think you will convert us? We want to help you to see through your dilusion.

I hope you don't leave. I hope you choose to put some hard thought into the questions that make you uncomfortable. But if you have come to 'tell us the good news', we aren't buying it. We've heard it all before and we know it's just a fairy tale.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2012, 05:16:13 AM »
I'm not sure I will be posting anymore at this point. It's understood that I am not wanted here.

Take care,
ILOVEYOU

ILY,

If you REALLY cared, then you would stick around and answer my question:

Why don't you explain clearly how I can know that your god is real and loves me, without any doubts? 

Leaving now would mean you leaving me to a godless fate.....I'm sure that - as a good Christian - you would not want to do that?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #72 on: March 20, 2012, 01:21:13 AM »
ILY,

If you REALLY cared, then you would stick around and answer my question:

Why don't you explain clearly how I can know that your god is real and loves me, without any doubts? 

Leaving now would mean you leaving me to a godless fate.....I'm sure that - as a good Christian - you would not want to do that?

Listen Anfauglir, I really do care. I'm not doing this because I think some Sky Daddy is going to bless me for it or for some eternal reward for it in an afterlife. I do it because I love GOD and am thankful for His mercy, forgiveness and grace with me. But when people take cheap shots and call my wife a slut, I have to draw the line. It takes a lot for someone to come here and be truthful and post intimate details of their lives. No matter what one believes. I do it because I believe it may help someone, in some way. I really don't care if people think that I am crazy. All I know is that my Savior has always been there for me and has delivered me every time. He has been faithful to me, even though I hadn't been to Him. I'm not any different from any of you. And I am most certainly not perfect. For the things that I have done in my life. I feel ashamed. And would be the biggest hypocrite if I thought otherwise. I will not come here and put myself upon a pedestal.

What people have been telling you all along. Jesus Christ is really who He says He is. He is The Son of GOD. He is our Savior. There is no other. It's not whether or not you are Catholic, Pentecostal, JW, Mormon or whatever religion or denomination. He was sent to the whole world. And if you really believe this, then you will know. He never came to give you a religion. But to give you the truth and set you free. Yes GOD is real but if you want to know what religion pleases the Father. Listen to what Jesus said and open your ears and your heart to what He is really saying and to whom He is saying it to. (James 1:27)

Is he basically saying to love your neighbor here...? Check out the parable of The Good Samaritan. (Luke 10 25:37)

And "expert" in the law called Jesus Christ his "Teacher". Meaning he believed in whom He said He was. He was an "expert" in The Law.
He knew the answer to Jesus' question. Jesus confirms this but then goes on and asks for clarification about whom his neighbor is.
Jesus tells him a story about a man (any man as He made no distinction other than he was beaten and robbed, left for dead), a priest, a levite and a samaritan.

The priest and the levite offer no help but the samaritan had mercy on the man. The samaritan was considered unclean by the Jews. A gentile. An outcast.  Their ancestors were Jewish and Assyrian.

Jesus commended the samaritan because of his unselfish act of love, not his religious affiliation. But rebuked the priest and levite because of their lack of mercy on the man.

Jesus often rebuked the sadducees and the pharisees. Correcting them and stressing the importance of what mattered more. Mercy, love, forgiveness.

He said they would pay their tithes and wash their hands. Wear there robes and sit in the best seats in the temple. Putting heavy burdens on people that they themselves couldn't keep. Straining gnats but swallowing camels. They put intense focus on what GOD considered the little things rather than focusing on what GOD considered more important. Love.

And if you can hear what He is saying when He said His commands are not burdensome:

Love GOD with all of your heart, soul, strength and understanding. And the other is just like it. To love your neighbor as yourself.

And to His disciples in which Jesus taught. He said, "love each other as I have loved you." He gave them an example to follow. As to all who believe in Him. To love each other as He showed them how He loved them.

If your "personal" religion doesn't consist of this kind of love. Then your religion is worthless to GOD.

So if you don't know who Jesus Christ is, you need to know who He is and know that He does love you. He was sent for you. It is more a lesson in love than it ever having anything to do with religion.

The Savior has come. Jesus Christ. Believe.






 

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #73 on: March 20, 2012, 02:29:29 AM »
Didn't that samaritan live before Christ? So he wasn't a Christian. And if he wasn't a jew, then he didn't believe in God either.

So by your own words, people can be good without God. Isn't that interesting?

And by the way, we have rules against preaching, that last post was just dripping with it.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 02:31:05 AM by joebbowers »
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #74 on: March 20, 2012, 02:39:23 AM »
It's a parable Joe, so I don't think it really matters when it happened.

And of course its possible to be good - it just isn't possible to be perfect. Christianity is unique in that it doesn't try to tell you of ways in which you can earn your way into heaven. There is but one way.
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #75 on: March 20, 2012, 05:01:47 AM »
Why don't you explain clearly how I can know that your god is real and loves me, without any doubts? 

Listen Anfauglir........
[/quote]

ILY, thanks for responding - though sadly you didn't answer my question.  Take another look at it, if you would - particularly this part:

.....explain clearly how I can know that your god is real.....

Unfortunately, there was nothing in your response that answered this point.  Plenty of stuff about loving him, sure: but - funny thing - I find it hard (actually impossible) to love someone that I do not believe exists.  To me, belief must come before love.

So would you like to take another stab at it?  Explain clearly how I can know that your god is real and loves me.  Bear in mind that I have read the Bible......as well as several other holy books that all make claims that THEIR god is the really real one, and for that reason the fact that one particular book says "this is so" does not actually anser my question.

I'd be delighted if you can give me something more.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Petey

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #76 on: March 20, 2012, 07:59:54 AM »
Christianity is unique in that it doesn't try to tell you of ways in which you can earn your way into heaven. There is but one way.

Not according to Jesus...

Matthew 5:17-20
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7:1-2
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 6:14-15
For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

Matthew 19:16-17
And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”

Luke 8:20-21
And he was told, “Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see you.” But he answered them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.”

Luke 18:21-25
And he said, “All these I have kept from my youth.” When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” But when he heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich. Jesus, seeing that he had become sad, said, “How difficult it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

John 3:3
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 5:27-29
And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

John 6:53
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

John 15:13-14
Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you.


So how exactly did you decide on one way?  Do you value Paul's words more than Jesus', or did you simply choose the easiest of the options available?
He never pays attention, he always knows the answer, and he can never tell you how he knows. We can't keep thrashing him. He is a bad example to the other pupils. There's no educating a smart boy.
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Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #77 on: March 20, 2012, 08:05:39 AM »
It's a parable Joe, so I don't think it really matters when it happened.

And of course its possible to be good - it just isn't possible to be perfect. Christianity is unique in that it doesn't try to tell you of ways in which you can earn your way into heaven. There is but one way.

Yeah, because Christianity has NEVER offered this eternal reward in return for service in the Crusades, or the purchase of indulgences, or anything shady like that......
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #78 on: March 20, 2012, 08:07:44 AM »
You say you are familiar with the Bible, right...?

Please read (John 7:17).

Do this and you will know. Jesus said you will know if you do GODS will. He declares GODS will.

If you do not know what GODS will is then refer to what Jesus says His commandments are.

What the NT says about GODS will.

If you will not listen to Jesus, there is no other way.

Love, mercy and forgiveness.


Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #79 on: March 20, 2012, 08:19:02 AM »
You say you are familiar with the Bible, right...?

Please read (John 7:17).

Do this and you will know. Jesus said you will know if you do GODS will. He declares GODS will.

If you do not know what GODS will is then refer to what Jesus says His commandments are.

What the NT says about GODS will.

If you will not listen to Jesus, there is no other way.

Love, mercy and forgiveness.


Actually it says (KJV)" 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."
In other words, the laws, whether those handed out by God in the OT, or those given by Jesus in the NT, they are law and followers should know and adhere to them. Like killing false prophets, not wearing clothing made of multiple fabric, the death penalty for any man who refuses to impregnate his widowed sister in law, those laws. Do you still follow those? If you do not, you are not following Jesus, according to the passage you just quoted. Nice job not following Jesus. Drive the nail in a little deeper.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline Petey

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #80 on: March 20, 2012, 08:22:02 AM »
You say you are familiar with the Bible, right...?

Please read (John 7:17).

Do this and you will know. Jesus said you will know if you do GODS will. He declares GODS will.

If you do not know what GODS will is then refer to what Jesus says His commandments are.

What the NT says about GODS will.

If you will not listen to Jesus, there is no other way.

Love, mercy and forgiveness.


Again, how and why do you choose that supposed quote of Jesus over the others?

And doesn't god's will include all the obscure commandments in Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy?  Or are you ignoring them in spite of Jesus saying that "until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law"?
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Offline sun_king

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #81 on: March 20, 2012, 08:26:34 AM »
John 7:17 "Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own."

In other words, believe and you will find out. Not find out and you will believe. Are you not tired of this trick???

As for god's will Revelation 9:7-19, god plans to wipeout a third of the worlds population. You want me to help god with that?

Or Deu 13:6-10, I have to kill all of my hindu friends?

Love, mercy and forgiveness... ILY, do you really know your god? That abomination?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #82 on: March 20, 2012, 08:31:10 AM »
If you do not know what GODS will is then refer to what Jesus says His commandments are.

If you will not listen to Jesus, there is no other way.

Kaziglu has quite rightly pointed out that John 7:17 does not say that "if you follow god's law, you will know that god exists" - which is of course what I asked of you.

Or is your contention that if I follow all of your god's commandments, then I will as a result acheive in some way the knowledge that he exists?  That's a possibility, I will freely admit - that a god will only reveal his existence to someone who does precisely what he requires.....although, there would then be a question over whether that god actually loves me - since one small slip could mean my never acheiving that knowledge, despite having the best of intentions.

But no mind.  ILY, as Kaziglu points out, there are many commandments in the Bible, and Christian sects differ as to which are still required.  Fortunately for me, you've said that you DO have the knowledge of your god, and therefore must be following the "right set" of commandments.

Would you please list here the commandements that are still valid, so I know which ones I should follow?  I would also be grateful if you would let me know exactly what form the knowledge of god will take, once I have followed those commandments.  It would also be handy to know for how long I will need to follow them, before that knowledge will come to me.

Sorry for all the questions - but after all, you were the one who originally posed the question "if it was brought to you attention that GOD was real, w/o any doubts and that He loves you more than you ever realized".  I'm just trying to establisgh preceisely how one gets to that position of "knowledge of god's reality and love with NO doubts" that you spoke of.

Thanks for your assistance.
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Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #83 on: March 20, 2012, 01:58:41 PM »
Jesus Christ fulfilled the law. And clarified of what is of more importance.

If you take a closer look at the ten commandments in the OT. You will notice that the first four deal with loving GOD and the rest deal with loving your neighbor. Jesus fulfilled the law with love perfectly. No one else can say this, nor has anyone done so other than Jesus Christ.

The law is still in effect for those who are not in Jesus Christ. Those in Jesus Christ are of the New Covenant. By Grace. The law exposes sin and death. Like a sinful person who looks into a mirror. But the Spirit gives life. Jesus Christ's words are Spirit.

The law was and is still in effect, just as it was when Jesus came. All of the priests and sadducees and pharisees were still currently practicing under the Old Covenant. They did not believe Jesus was the Christ. But those who believed and came to the knowledge of the truth were/are saved by grace. The law came through Moses but One who is greater has now come. He who grants life. Jesus Christ our Savior.

So, now that our Savior has come, His authority is above that of any other. GOD has granted Him all authority. He kept the law to fulfill it. We rest in His works not our own.

So be cautious of whom Jesus is speaking to. What He is speaking about and why. What is He really teaching His disciples. Whom and why He is rebuking. And see what truths are hidden in His stories that may pertain to you. Keep in mind that Jesus' disciples were Jewish. They knew and were familiar with scripture. Why is it that Jesus opened their "understanding" of scripture if they were already familiar to it? Seems a little odd.....

Jesus Christ is the real deal folks. He is our Savior. And if you believe this, you will listen to Him and know the truth.



   

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #84 on: March 20, 2012, 02:45:35 PM »
Jesus Christ fulfilled the law. 

What the flip does it mean to "fulfill the law"? 
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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #85 on: March 20, 2012, 02:49:40 PM »
ILY,

Jesus Christ fulfilled the law. And clarified of what is of more importance.
<snip>

How does this post answer any points put to you?  You have simply regurgitated a collection of unsupported claims and beliefs.  How is this not preaching?  You should know by now what preaching is and that it is against the rules.  So, what's the deal?

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Offline Omen

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Re: Does answered prayers interfere with free will?
« Reply #86 on: March 20, 2012, 03:45:35 PM »
You say you are familiar with the Bible, right...?

Please read (John 7:17).

Do this and you will know

There is nothing to 'know'.  The qualification your using is inseparable from make believe or personal whim, one can insert any justification as mindless as the one you just presented.  The logic doesn't reasonably follow into allowing one to conclude anything.

 
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If you will not listen to Jesus, there is no other way

This is a hateful pleading dismissal, having presupposed that there is a message and that that message is coherent, you're only capable of spewing the same repetitive rhetoric without the ability to explain how it is to be understood or why.  This type of dismissal towards humble human beings who only ask you for a reasonable cause to take it seriously is condescending and arrogant.  The bible is incredibly vague, contradictory, and you possess no demonstrable intellectual ability to establish yourself as an authority to be taken seriously.  When we ask you to provide that intellectual reasoning, supported by evidence, you do nothing but spew the rhetoric. 

We are not indoctrinated, speaking to us as if we believed it to be true is insane.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the law.

Another mindless bit of rhetoric, Jesus fulfills no Judaic Messianic Prophecy or 'law'.  This is theological nonsense, arbitrary self serving rationale no different then randomly making something up to confirm what one wants to believe. 

We are not indoctrinated, speaking to us as if we believed it to be true is insane.

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If you take a closer look at the ten commandments in the OT.

There are actually varying different sets of the 10 commandments.

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You will notice that the first four deal with loving GOD

A cult like reinforcement of superstition? Who knew!

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and the rest deal with loving your neighbor.

This is blatantly false, even an outright lie.  The commandments along with the mitzvoh were delivered to Jews, there were different laws for non-jews.

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Jesus fulfilled the law with love perfectly.

This is mindless theological rationale, concluded from nothing and too nothing.

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No one else can say this, nor has anyone done so other than Jesus Christ.

This is pitilessly stupid pleading.  As if listing random crap in someone's religion is somehow profound by the qualification that it isn't like other religions.

You're not arguing anything rational or logical, this is at face value open intellectual dishonesty.

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The law is still in effect for those who are not in Jesus Christ. Those in Jesus Christ are of the New Covenant. By Grace. The law exposes sin and death. Like a sinful person who looks into a mirror. But the Spirit gives life. Jesus Christ's words are Spirit.

This is all mindless subjective rationale, randomly made up to confirm a theological context that is presupposed, not one that is derived from religious text.  Jesus has nothing to do with judaic messianic prophecy or jewish eschatology.  There is no second coming in judaic messianic prophecy.

Quote
The law was and is still in effect, just as it was when Jesus came. All of the priests and sadducees and pharisees were still currently practicing under the Old Covenant. They did not believe Jesus was the Christ. But those who believed and came to the knowledge of the truth were/are saved by grace. The law came through Moses but One who is greater has now come. He who grants life. Jesus Christ our Savior.

This is all mindless subjective rationale, randomly made up to confirm a theological context that is presupposed, not one that is derived from religious text.  Jesus has nothing to do with judaic messianic prophecy or jewish eschatology.  There is no second coming in judaic messianic prophecy.

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So, now that our Savior has come, His authority is above that of any other. GOD has granted Him all authority. He kept the law to fulfill it. We rest in His works not our own.

This is a mindlessly stupid argument from authority, any religion on the planet can claim its own authority, why do you think this is relevant intellectually speaking?

How could you be so stupid as to believe this means anything at all?

Quote
So be cautious of whom Jesus is speaking to. What He is speaking about and why. What is He really teaching His disciples. Whom and why He is rebuking. And see what truths are hidden in His stories that may pertain to you. Keep in mind that Jesus' disciples were Jewish. They knew and were familiar with scripture. Why is it that Jesus opened their "understanding" of scripture if they were already familiar to it? Seems a little odd.....

Mindless special pleading that can be used to qualify any conclusion.

Quote
Jesus Christ is the real deal folks. He is our Savior. And if you believe this, you will listen to Him and know the truth.

Why don't you write it down on a chalk board a dozen times, I'm sure somone won't believe you don't belong in a mental institute eventually.
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