Author Topic: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?  (Read 2326 times)

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Offline Moshydog

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Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« on: November 04, 2008, 09:53:58 PM »
Reading through the various posts that make up the science subject area of this website, I have a question about the relationship between any belief, (such as Theism or Atheism) and science.

Specifically, "Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?"

Is there any relationship between whether or not God exists, and the nature of how we view science? Does the relationship change depending on this, or is the relationship absolute?

In particular, can the scientific method be used to prove/disprove or lend evidence to the God argument?

Your thoughts?

(Go Obama!!!)
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Offline jazzman

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2008, 10:17:05 PM »
Is there any relationship between whether or not God exists, and the nature of how we view science?
Whether god (or gods) exists has no impact on how we conduct scientific inquiries.  Science works the way it does, with or without god.  If gods do exist, they haven't interfered with how we scientifically investigate the world around us.

Does the relationship change depending on this, or is the relationship absolute?
There is no relationship to speak of.  God's existence is irrelevant in science.

In particular, can the scientific method be used to prove/disprove or lend evidence to the God argument?
  No.  No scientific method of gathering knowledge can gather knowledge of anything outside of the nature in which we live, which is where most gods are said to exist.   If gods exist within the nature that we can study, they've left no traces of their existence that we can verify.  No one has yet devised a scientific experiment that can prove or disprove any deity's existence; if evidence of gods exists, it is beyond the scope of modern science to detect that evidence.

Jazzman
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Offline Count Iblis

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2008, 10:45:00 PM »
Depends which god. Biblegod is thoroughly disproven by science. On the flip side Deismgod makes no testable predictions so science can't say either way (though we'd have to go with the null hypothesis).
Religion is an act of sedition against reason.--P.Z. Myers

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Offline Freezykow

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2008, 10:57:06 PM »
(Go Obama!!!)

NObama
When the power of love, overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. – Jimi Hendrix

Offline PingTheServer

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2008, 08:42:53 AM »
(Go Obama!!!)

NObama

President Obama.

McCain would have had a better shot without a VP whackjob creationist with a seperatist for a husband...and without the 8 years of the bush white house.

Offline Deus ex Machina

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2008, 09:04:22 AM »
Reading through the various posts that make up the science subject area of this website, I have a question about the relationship between any belief, (such as Theism or Atheism) and science.

Specifically, "Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?"

Is there any relationship between whether or not God exists, and the nature of how we view science? Does the relationship change depending on this, or is the relationship absolute?

In particular, can the scientific method be used to prove/disprove or lend evidence to the God argument?

Your thoughts?

I think there are two separate questions here. (At least, but I'll cover two to start.)

1) Can science conclusively establish or dismiss any particular permutation of Ultimate Reality? Nope. That's the problem of induction for you.
2) Does the body of scientific knowledge lend any credence to the assorted myths in various sacred texts - and thereby, to the various permutations of Ultimate Reality upon which those myths are based and about which theists speculate? Also no: in fact, a fair amount of our scientific knowledge contradicts those myths in anything other than a rather liberal allegorical interpretation.
No day in which you learn something is wasted.

Offline Freezykow

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2008, 09:59:05 AM »
(Go Obama!!!)

NObama

President Obama.

McCain would have had a better shot without a VP whackjob creationist with a separatist for a husband...and without the 8 years of the bush white house.

Well God Bless Obama...for if this is the same man I saw run the election than he will need all the blessings in the world to not get us all killed.
When the power of love, overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. – Jimi Hendrix

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2008, 10:09:56 AM »
Why do you think he might get you all killed, Freezy?  Because his name sounds like "Osama"?
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2008, 01:34:36 PM »
I think I know what you're getting at, in that a lot of atheists will defend their points through the use of a scientific method.
But I don't think that atheism has a direct link with science.
People can just reject religion through personal interpretation.

I've seen science work both ways - atheists can learn science and feel comfortable in that it can be used to explain what's happening around us and why it's happening. On the other hand, though, some people could be theists through science because they see how beautiful science is and gather that our natural laws must have been put in place and designed by something of superior intelligence.

As for myself, I have never really believed in a God because I found it all slightly absurd, somewhat silly.
My passion for science came long after I decided against God. So for me, there was no link between the two initially :)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 01:39:46 PM by ;) »
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Offline JackWhitehead1

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2008, 01:44:45 PM »

On the other hand, though, some people could be theists through science because they see how beautiful science is and gather that our natural laws must have been put in place and designed by something of superior intelligence.


NST's

Offline PingTheServer

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2008, 01:52:18 PM »
(Go Obama!!!)

NObama

President Obama.

McCain would have had a better shot without a VP whackjob creationist with a separatist for a husband...and without the 8 years of the bush white house.

Well God Bless Obama...for if this is the same man I saw run the election than he will need all the blessings in the world to not get us all killed.

Fear is your god.  

Your political views are as based in fear as your mythological views.  The fact that you think his election will "get us all killed" speaks volumes to your inability to sift through unadulterated partisan garbage, and view the candidates for what they are...not what the other one says they are.   Your mind is so susceptible to fear, that you only side with what you dont need to think about - which is what other people tell you fear.

It's probably not worth having a debate at all with you since you are so closed minded.  If you liked the other ticket better, I have no problem with that.  My problem is that you let yourself stay so enslaved to unfounded fear, you base your world view on fear.  You're like the guy in the matrix that wants to be put back in.

Offline PingTheServer

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2008, 01:53:42 PM »
Why do you think he might get you all killed, Freezy?  Because his name sounds like "Osama"?

Its worse than that.  It's "Black Hussein Osama".  ::)  We have some real Mensa members here.

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2008, 02:59:27 PM »

On the other hand, though, some people could be theists through science because they see how beautiful science is and gather that our natural laws must have been put in place and designed by something of superior intelligence.


NST's

Precisely ;)
Although I'm sure there's some intelligent/less ignorant out there ... somewhere

Now ... CHESS
Our freedom's consuming itself.

Offline JackWhitehead1

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2008, 03:42:06 PM »

On the other hand, though, some people could be theists through science because they see how beautiful science is and gather that our natural laws must have been put in place and designed by something of superior intelligence.


NST's

Precisely ;)
Although I'm sure there's some intelligent/less ignorant out there ... somewhere

Now ... CHESS

I'm ready when you are ;)

Offline Freezykow

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2008, 04:45:13 PM »
Why do you think he might get you all killed, Freezy?  Because his name sounds like "Osama"?

Race in anyway is no factor to me. His ideas on the country, abortion, the second amendment, and dealing with terrorism just scare me.
When the power of love, overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. – Jimi Hendrix

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2008, 05:00:36 PM »
So I repeat:

Why do you think he might get you all killed, Freezy?

If you have no reason to think this, then just say so.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline JackWhitehead1

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2008, 05:10:46 PM »

On the other hand, though, some people could be theists through science because they see how beautiful science is and gather that our natural laws must have been put in place and designed by something of superior intelligence.


NST's

Precisely ;)
Although I'm sure there's some intelligent/less ignorant out there ... somewhere

Now ... CHESS

Unfortunate that you lost, that's 5-0 to me?

Offline Freezykow

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2008, 06:12:47 PM »
So I repeat:

Why do you think he might get you all killed, Freezy?

If you have no reason to think this, then just say so.

It was more of sarcaism. I honeslty don't think Obama could kill all of us if he wanted to. But like I said his policys do send a very cold shiver down my spine.
When the power of love, overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. – Jimi Hendrix

Offline bahramthered

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2008, 07:33:15 PM »
So I repeat:

Why do you think he might get you all killed, Freezy?

If you have no reason to think this, then just say so.

It was more of sarcaism. I honeslty don't think Obama could kill all of us if he wanted to. But like I said his policys do send a very cold shiver down my spine.

The cold shiver down my spine is finally starting to go away. Should vanish Jan 20 when the rebuplicans and Bush finally go away.

Am I the only one amazed that Bush surivied his presidency so far? Secret Service must be dam good, barring those annoying pretzels...

Offline PingTheServer

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2008, 10:49:40 PM »
So I repeat:

Why do you think he might get you all killed, Freezy?

If you have no reason to think this, then just say so.

It was more of sarcaism. I honeslty don't think Obama could kill all of us if he wanted to. But like I said his policys do send a very cold shiver down my spine.

Have you been alive in America for the last 8 years?  Are you actually more afraid of the unknown, than the worst 8 years since the depression?  If you havent noticed, we've put ourselves in the middle of an un-necessary war, the stock market sucks, unemployment is way up, the dollar is way down...and you're more afraid of Obama?  Please, stop listening to Rush and Hannity.

Offline hideousmonster

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2008, 12:52:28 AM »
Have you been alive in America for the last 8 years?  Are you actually more afraid of the unknown, than the worst 8 years since the depression?  If you havent noticed, we've put ourselves in the middle of an un-necessary war, the stock market sucks, unemployment is way up, the dollar is way down...and you're more afraid of Obama?  Please, stop listening to Rush and Hannity.
If you blame Bush, and the republicans alone for the state of the union, and the world, then you're no better.
If a tree fell in a forest, and the people around to hear it were not scientists conducting a controlled audio experiment... did it make a sound?

Offline Freezykow

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2008, 03:53:23 PM »
So I repeat:

Why do you think he might get you all killed, Freezy?

If you have no reason to think this, then just say so.

It was more of sarcaism. I honeslty don't think Obama could kill all of us if he wanted to. But like I said his policys do send a very cold shiver down my spine.

Have you been alive in America for the last 8 years?  Are you actually more afraid of the unknown, than the worst 8 years since the depression?  If you havent noticed, we've put ourselves in the middle of an un-necessary war, the stock market sucks, unemployment is way up, the dollar is way down...and you're more afraid of Obama?  Please, stop listening to Rush and Hannity.

Lets explore what you know about me.

1. I'm Christian

2. I don't like Barack Obamas policys.

From the mountains of information you can accuartly conclude that I'm only afraid of the unknown, I think McCain would have fixed this place, and I listen to Rush and Hanity. Ok let me set the record straight for all those who know about all others through almost no information or ever meeting them. I don't like Baracks policies I think both he and McCain would have done this country no good. I don't listen to any radio and I think we are in for 4 hellacious years. So almighty Ping let me give you some advice. Assumptions are not a wise thing.
When the power of love, overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. – Jimi Hendrix

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2008, 03:55:11 PM »
I listen to Rush and Hanity.

Well, fvck, there's the problem.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Freezykow

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2008, 04:38:42 PM »
I listen to Rush and Hanity.

Well, fvck, there's the problem.

What that I don't listen to them?
When the power of love, overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. – Jimi Hendrix

Offline bahramthered

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2008, 06:06:29 PM »
They're the lie champions of the right wing. They're only purpose is to keep republicans in power and all they do is lie throught their worthless teeth.

I know Rush very well, beleive me you shouldn't listen to that hate monger. I'm forced to. My advice is if you want to listen to him at least check everything he says with another source other than fox news. (Wow, I got it right and didn't call it fixed noise on the first try!)

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2008, 06:10:38 PM »
I listen to Rush and Hanity.
Well, fvck, there's the problem.

What that I don't listen to them?

Oh, well.  You never actually stated that you didn't listen to them.  Where did you adopt their views from, then?
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Freezykow

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2008, 06:36:26 PM »
I listen to Rush and Hanity.
Well, fvck, there's the problem.

What that I don't listen to them?

Oh, well.  You never actually stated that you didn't listen to them.  Where did you adopt their views from, then?

Well my little paragraph a few posts up was a list of things that were falsly assumed about me that I don't beleive in. I get them from watching the news, listining to debates ect...

Like I said I think that what happend here is the picking the lesser of two evils. Unfortunaly I believe we got it wrong.
When the power of love, overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. – Jimi Hendrix

Offline PingTheServer

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2008, 07:17:50 PM »
Have you been alive in America for the last 8 years?  Are you actually more afraid of the unknown, than the worst 8 years since the depression?  If you havent noticed, we've put ourselves in the middle of an un-necessary war, the stock market sucks, unemployment is way up, the dollar is way down...and you're more afraid of Obama?  Please, stop listening to Rush and Hannity.
If you blame Bush, and the republicans alone for the state of the union, and the world, then you're no better.

I'm no better?  Really?  I'm just as bad as Cheny owning Halliburton..winner of a no bid contract worth billions?  I'm just as bad as Busy, who fabricated a war and sent our men to die in Iraq?

Let me tell you something, IF I was 1/10000000th as bad as they are, I would be in JAIL for LIFE.  The only reason he wasnt impeached is because democrats have been decried as unpatriotic pacifists...and impeaching him would actually give a little bit of truth to the unfounded claim.

I'd like to see a mental flow chart that leads to you logically think that "If I think someone that actually did something is bad, then I am as bad as that person".  Amaze me.  Wow me.
* PingTheServer gets popcorn ready

Offline PingTheServer

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Re: Science and Atheism/Theism: What's the relationship?
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2008, 07:20:51 PM »
Assumptions are not a wise thing.



I did assume a number of things about you.  The core of what I said about your fear based mentality is true though.  Change it off Fox news.