Author Topic: The Probability of the Big Bang  (Read 33467 times)

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Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #725 on: April 10, 2012, 10:53:52 PM »

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=evidence+evolution


Oh Google!  Why didn't I think of that?  Still no answer.  You seem to believe something but can't answer a question about it....

Online Aaron123

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #726 on: April 10, 2012, 10:56:37 PM »
And you can't tell me in your own words how that it's proof of a Big Bang?  I NEVER get an answer, just accusations of lying.  Can you please answer a question?

I gave you links to articles on the subject writen by people that has far expertise on the subject than I ever will.  If you're going to dismiss what they have to say, why should I think you'll listen to me?
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Offline Alzael

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #727 on: April 10, 2012, 10:59:31 PM »

The universe is expanding.  And this is proof of a Big Bang?  Please explain.  Acting like I asked a dumb question does not answer the dumb question.  Please explain how it happened.  I'm serious.

Ok, look Rocky. I'm going to try to be straight with you for a minute. Here's the problem of why I can't explain it to you.

Picture you and I are going to go to a baseball game. Now myself not being interested in sports in the least, I tell you that I don't think baseball is a very good game. I just don't understand it.

So you say to me, "Well what don't you understand?"

At which point I answer,"I just don't see how the game works. For instance what do you call it when the batter catches the ball and runs over the goalpost while dribbling the soccer ball into the net?"

You see the problem here? Like this theoretical me, your knowledge of the subject matter is so utterly broken, glued up and twisted together with other pieces of information from other things that there's almost no way to answer you, because you lack even the fundamental knowledge to consider the proper questions. And you lack the desire to actually learn the proper information that would let you realize what the right questions to ask are.

Take your continued insistence on information of the Big Bang and abiogenisis to prove evolution. This is a criteria that can never be met. Not because there is no evidence for the Big Bang Theory or for evolution, or abiogenesis. Because the three theories are unrelated to each other. Nothing about the Big Bang either proves nor disproves evolution, beause they are not connected. Just like the fact that your car is working properly doesn't prove the sun will rise tomorrow. You are asking for something that cannot exist because the very question is ignorant, twisted and nonsensical.

So what else is anyone supposed to do except just shrug their shoulders and say "You're an idiot". Page after page has already been spent trying to explain even basic concepts to you. And everytime you ignore them and ask the same twisted nonsense questions that everyone has already told you is a nonsense question.

If you want actual intelligent answers you can get them here, but you have to start acting like an intelligent person first.


And the Earth was part of this expansion that was able to hold the elements for life?  And this life emerged from chaos and evolution created you and I and all the extreme diverse life forms we see today?  And the Big Bang was caused by?  And the elements and matter got there how?  And what caused the explosion?  And how did we evolve again?  That's mind-numbing if you think about it.  Have you ever really thought about the entire process that you propose?

This is an example of what I mean. This is utter rambling nonsense. It's a pastiche of different ideas cobbled together without a single coherent thought. It's just random questions without a proper sequence to them. They're not even all on the same subject. What do you expect anyone to do with this?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 11:02:00 PM by Alzael »
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Offline JeffPT

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #728 on: April 10, 2012, 11:05:43 PM »
Ok. I'll comment on a few of these.  Thanks for the list by the way.  Genetic material proves nothing. 

OK STOP right there.  Go back and read the other stuff that I wrote.  Seriously.  Go read what I wrote about the snowball theory.  You wanted evidence and you now have it.  You had it a long time ago, but now you've got more.

In order for evolution to be true, you would need a way to pass genetic material from parent to offspring, right?  We have that.  So that is evidence of a valid theory. 

We have the same DNA as a monkey?  So?  We have teeth and eyes like many animals, that doesn't mean we evolved from each other.

All of those are evidence that SUPPORT the theory of evolution.  That is what you asked for.  That is what I gave you.  In order for evolution to be wrong, there would have to be a fact which doesn't support it.   

The earth is NOT very old.  Can you prove that it's as old as some say it is?  What are your fool-proof methods of dating?

Jesus effing Christ. 

That's a major area of disagreement, btw.

Only because religious people are idiots who have everything to lose by accepting the evidence (and it is massive) that the earth is old.  No rockv.  The earth is very old.  Get over it. 

Mutations occur.  So what?  Fossils found in the same layer is up for argument also.  Dating methods...which have been proven?  Whales?  They breathe air?  So?  Sharp teeth?  What?

Are you STILL not getting this?  Did you read what I wrote about the idea of a theory rockv?  Did you read it at all?  Do you know how fucking rude it is to just ignore things? 

Those are the best arguments and evidence that evolution has to offer?  And nobody can answer how the hummingbird evolved....  Think about the process of evolution from start to finish.  Does it seem plausible?  Step by step...think about what you are believing.

Do you understand that the people who HAVE thought the process of evolution through from start to finish, are the ones who accept it? When I first heard of it, it was difficult to accept, but the more I learned, the more it came clear.  It is only the people like you, who's entire argument is "I can't believe it all happened like that", who deny evolution.  You're still at the starting point with no motivation to move forward.  Seriously, you're like a guy who comes into a calculus class and sits in the back row heckling the teacher about how impossible it is to calculate the area under a curve when he himself never made it past 2+2 is 4.  Do you know what a codon is?  How about a base pair?  Do you know what DNA stands for without having to look it up?  Your entire argument is that you don't get it.  We KNOW you don't get it.  We're trying desperately to help you get it because we KNOW more about it than you. 

You're a fucking waste of time with this whole evolution thing.  You aren't here to learn. 

God is not real.  Grow up.   
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Offline Alzael

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #729 on: April 10, 2012, 11:08:05 PM »

Ok. I'll comment on a few of these.  Thanks for the list by the way.  Genetic material proves nothing.

Make one reasonable argument why not.

We have the same DNA as a monkey?  So?  We have teeth and eyes like many animals, that doesn't mean we evolved from each other.

How do you know this? Clearly you don't know the subject matter if this is your objection.

Again, provide a reasonable argument why not.

The earth is NOT very old. 

And you know this how?

Can you prove that it's as old as some say it is? 

Yes. But when are you going to start showing some evidence?

That's a major area of disagreement, btw.

Demonstrate. Show evidence.

Mutations occur.  So what?  Fossils found in the same layer is up for argument also.  Dating methods...which have been proven?  Whales?  They breathe air?  So?  Sharp teeth?  What?

None of these are arguments against the evidence in anyway. They're just wild claims. And very stupid ones at that.

Those are the best arguments and evidence that evolution has to offer?  And nobody can answer how the hummingbird evolved....  Think about the process of evolution from start to finish.  Does it seem plausible?

Yes, but you see, I've actually read science books and taken the time to understand how the process works. Learning works better that way, I find.

  Step by step...think about what you are believing.

This would work a lot better for you.

You're a fucking waste of time with this whole evolution thing.  You aren't here to learn.

Don't worry about it Jeff. You can't help a person who's determined to stay stupid.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 11:10:08 PM by Alzael »
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Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #730 on: April 11, 2012, 01:27:23 AM »
Ever read "The Problem With Pain" by C.S. Lewis?  It would help you understand a bit better.

The fact that someone more famous and far more intelligent than yourself also held an irrational belief in something for which there is no evidence, and then rationalized excuses for the heinous suffering in the world in order to support that belief, in no way makes that belief correct.

Also, while I appreciate that you are finally responding to my posts, please stop with the condescending insinuations that my arguments are based on a lack of understanding. If anyone on this forum has a problem with comprehension, it is you, rock.

Oh Google!  Why didn't I think of that?  Still no answer.  You seem to believe something but can't answer a question about it....

Hey Pot, have you met my friend Kettle? I (and plenty of others) have asked you numerous questions which you have willfully ignored. The closest thing to an answer you've given me is an insulting suggestion to read a book! So I will again raise the two points I would most like you, using your own words, to address:

1. Why is it acceptable to you that god allows innocent children to suffer and die, and how would it adversely affect free will if such suffering was eliminated?
2. For the love of all you find holy, please (finally!) explain how parents are able to sell a child's soul to the devil, and why god allows such a thing to take place.
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Offline caveat_imperator

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #731 on: April 11, 2012, 02:44:47 AM »

Repeating your lie and claiming it's the truth won't make it any less of a lie.

Lie?  What is going on here?  How is what I said a lie?  I just said that the HUGE unanswered and mysterious question of how all things began should be a rather large question in one's mind.  And evolution is NOT proven.  Nobody even can agree or figure out how the first living cell formed and what happened soon after that!  It's ALL assumption and everyone knows it.

If you want evidence of your lying, here it is:

When did time begin? 

If we are talking about evolution that is an irrelevant question.


No time is relevant to evolution!  Good grief, it's mentioned over and over with the theory!  What?

Good grief, you are horrible at trying to make us believe your lies!
As everyone can see, you were asking about the beginning of time which has nothing to do with biological evolution!

Denying you've lied won't work if the evidence that you have lied can be seen by everyone again and again and again and again...
"In the end theologians are jealous of science, for they are aware that it has greater authority than do their own ways of finding “truth”: dogma, authority, and revelation. Science does find truth, faith does not. " - Jerry Coyne

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #732 on: April 11, 2012, 02:53:23 AM »
Hello Rock.  Since you seem to be having trouble following threads, I'll put it all together for you.

You expect God to do what He says He will do  And prayer was an example of yours  The Bible says "whatever you ask in my name, I will give it unto you"......

Yes Rock, I do.  Regardless of any other question or point that has been raised about evolution or anything else, if I were to consider your god as being deserving of love or worship (let alone existing), then the very first step would be that he does what he says he will do.

When and where did God say He will do something and not do it?  Give me one example in the Bible.

I already gave you several examples of where he said he would do soemthing. I'm still waiting for your proof that he ever did it.

I don't remember any examples.  Can you give another?  Sorry.  I'll try not to lie this time...

See the text up there in red?  Where you agreed Alz gave an example?  And you are now saying "I don't remember any examples."  Maybe that's not a lie - maybe you really DID forget the big long list in the space of a day.  So here they are again…..

I said that I expected him to do the things that he said he would do.

For instance he promises to answer prayers.

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." (Matthew 7:7)

"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 18:19)

"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22)

"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." (Mark 11:24)

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13)

"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it." (John 14:13-14)

"And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you." (John 16:23)

"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." (Romans 10:12)

"For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father." (Ephesians 2:18)

"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4:16)

"And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him." (1 John 5:14-15)

So why don't we see this happening in real life?
 

Indeed, if you look at your blue text up at the top, you'll see that you agree - "The Bible says "whatever you ask in my name, I will give it unto you".

So that's what we're saying, Rock.  In the Bible, it says over and over what your god says he will do - words which you agree he says he will do.  We say he does NOT do those things, and therefore is a liar, at best.

It's all very simple Rock.  Does your god do what he says in the Bible - things which Alz has posted a dozen examples of, and which every person on this forum should be seeing a hundred times a day if god kept his word.  So why don't we see this happening, constantly, and repeatedly?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline voodoo child

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #733 on: April 11, 2012, 02:58:26 AM »
 
Quote
rockv12
Evidence for evolution.  Can you show one good example of evidence?  The best of all pieces of evidence that exists for evolution....what is it?

Ill take a shot but you wont give a crap.

Stratigraphy, the first and easiest method of dating.
I live in what you would call a rain forest, every year plants die, and trees shed their needles, pine cones, leaves. It's pretty much a debris field that's about an inch thick. In ten years its ten inches. Now imagine if you can how old the earth really is. But you don't care because you have only read one book.

Now what “caused” the big bang? I don't know and don't really care. Of course Christians would love it. If we would admit that their god caused it. Sorry pall, we don't know what god caused it, if any god caused anything at all. You were not there and neither was I. so what's the point of trying to explain something you do not want to accept. You only trust one book. 

There is plenty of evidence that our common ancestor is a type of ape but you don't care. There is that book in the way again. 

Dogs have a common ancestor, yet most Christian's will still call them dogs even though one species of dog gives birth to new species almost on a daily bases,from a planetary perspective. But you don't give a crap about that sort of thing. Yup, you can watch evolution, on a yearly bases at your local dog park. How easy was that?


That book written by men, who thought the world was as big as the horizon, lived in caves and thought common dieses were the work of a demon. They were afraid of the dark they were afraid of a women's menstrual cycle. They thought they could change an animal's fur color, by simply tying strange colored fabrics to fence posts. I am surprised humans made it this far without starving to death. Praying don't fix roofs or plant fields.
Do you actually live like a Amish?  You have a computer the world is at your fingertips but I will assume that book will be in the way and you will refuse to learn a dam thing.
Grow up.   
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Offline Tero

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #734 on: April 11, 2012, 06:26:02 AM »
Rock may be right. There in fact is still evolution, since there has to be. But God may have poofed the earth into existence 6000 years ago and created the fossils and rocks to resemble what it looked like if it were billions of years old. He specially created every organism so it looked like they evolved together, humming girds and bees and flowers and all.

The earth then has been evolving slightly for 6000 years. Eventually new species will arise, if God lets the experiment run long enough without destroying his work and Armageddon and all.

So evolution really is correct as well, since God left the evidence for us to decipher, even thought it is just a trick by God to test our faith.

On a similar note, it was recently discovered that the earth is much younger:
http://teroreport.blogspot.com/2011/10/universe-137-years-old.html

Online Dante

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #735 on: April 11, 2012, 08:25:12 AM »

Then, how do you know anything? How do you know other theists misinterpret the scripture? Are you absolutely positive that it's not YOU who has misinterpreted?

How do you know?

And oh, by the way, it's ever so slightly hypocritical of you to claim that you dont have all the answers, that you just don't know everything, yet continue to bust our asses about it.

Am I positive I haven't misinterpreted Scripture?  Of course not.  You can't just say, "We don't have the answers to the beginning of time" but believe it whole-heartedly though. 

Who says I believe it "whole heartedly"? I believe the evidence, for which there is PLENTY of the BBT. Math and everything!

Quote
I expect that if you believe evolution then you should have proof of it.

Then you're even more of an idiot than I gave you credit for. The PROOF you so desperately seek, is referred to as EVIDENCE. I know, I know. It's not PROOF, to you. But, you've had it expalined to you, ad naseum, by some very patient people for pages and pages. If you're too afraid to look at the evidence, that's on you. Not me, and not anyone else here.

Quote
If you want to disprove God by saying that it's silly to believe in something that we can't understand, then you must apply the same principle to your own beliefs.

I'm having a difficult time typing anything other than contemptuous slanderings at your idiocy in response to this.... If you wish to ignore the facts, the evidence, the truths that mankind has discovered, and continue to live believing that bronze age Jews had all the knowledge that will ever be known, you're more than welcome to it. But please, don't breed. Because the earth can't tolerate too much more of your level of dumb.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #736 on: April 11, 2012, 08:32:49 AM »

the list goes on.  It is clear that rah means moral evil in these contexts. Yes, it can mean bad things happening, but that still leaves you with theodicy.

God did NOT create evil.  What is evil anyway?  Explain how He "created" it.

The Bible has God claiming that he created evil.  This has been explained to you.  So your disagreement is not with the people on this board, but with the Bible.  You are claiming that either the Bible is lying, or that God is lying.  Could you specify which it is that you're saying?
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Offline velkyn

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #737 on: April 11, 2012, 09:09:34 AM »
And you can't tell me in your own words how that it's proof of a Big Bang?  I NEVER get an answer, just accusations of lying.  Can you please answer a question?

sad to see that you are such a hypocrite, demanding answers, having them given to you, refusing to acknowledge them and then refusing to answer questions yourself.  The universe was observed and looked like something made everything move away from everything else.  We know that explosions do something *similar* (not exactly the same at all) to that so that’s how the BBT started.  A hypothesis was made to venture a reason on why the universe looks as it does.   This hypothesis was put out for others to disprove it.  Science made more discoveries that supported and refined the basic hypothesis so it becam a theory  that there was some event that caused energy and matter to act as observed.  Predictions were made by this theory have come true so more evidence supports it. 

this is the usual nonsense by a Christian who wants to claim that we should respect his claims but then when the hard questions come about this nonsense, then he whines about how dare we expect him to have any answers. You are just one more human being who wants to be believed to have special knowledge but who has nothing to show that he is anything but average.   He attacks science because it threatens this delusion that he’s special.  He clings to his ignorance because to do anything else would be admitting that he is nothing more than the rest of us.
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Offline Lurking

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #738 on: April 11, 2012, 09:41:39 AM »
Those verses are up for interpretation.
Yes, we know. Just like "ask and it will be provided" is up to interpretation. That's why their's 38 000 different types of Christians. Can't an omnipotent god do a better job when communicating to his or her "children"?
What is hell?
Oh, according to the Bible, it's very clearly pointed out by Jesus; how do you keep on missing it? Don't you believe what the Bible says about what Jesus said?
The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this FLAME."

In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."

This is from the Book of Relevations:
Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.
Do you only believe the Bible when it suits you and what you want to believe?

 
  I'm not sure, but I don't want to die and miss out on heaven.
Are you sure Allah would accept you in heaven? Shouldn't you start believing in Allah too, just for in case?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 10:01:27 AM by Lurking »

Offline Lurking

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #739 on: April 11, 2012, 10:07:06 AM »
But please, don't breed. Because the earth can't tolerate too much more of your level of dumb.
Unfortunately, they do breed. A lot. Why do you think that using contraceptives was declared a "sin" by the most popular Christian religion? And the same people also claim 10% of the income of every believer, just to believe that they are "saved". They really are good businessmen.

What worries me is that believers in another god, already constituting 25% of the world's population, are breeding rapidly. And their percentage of the population is rising exponentially. They demand even more from their believers. If they don't get it, they fly into buildings and threaten to do other even more hideous deeds.

 What's more unfortunate is that people who can think, don't breed much. 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 10:15:39 AM by Lurking »

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #740 on: April 11, 2012, 10:52:47 AM »
rockv12:

Alright, so despite the efforts of many people through this thread, you're still unconvinced that evolution has any relevance, meaning that you have problems with the field of biology.  You also seem to dispute other areas of science, such as geology (fossils, radiometric dating) and cosmology (the Big Bang, universal expansion).  And that's fine in its own right - science only benefits from dispute.  The problem is not that you dispute these branches of science, but that you do so by positing questions which you use as a Heads I Win, Tails You Lose situation.  If someone cannot answer a given question, you act as if that proves that your own beliefs are valid (which is a logical error in its own right); if they can, you find a new question to ask.

This approach might fool people who are not intelligent enough to spot it, although it would not make it correct in any case.  However, you are dealing with people who are not only intelligent, but are critical-minded as well.  It was easy for us to tell that you were using such an approach, and that your scenario was and is based on validating your own beliefs, not on finding out what's actually correct.  Your subsequent actions in this thread have amply confirmed this to us.  In other words, by acting only to validate your religious beliefs to yourself, you have demolished your credibility among us.

And worse, you haven't even really validated your religious beliefs, because you know that you can't validate your own beliefs more than you already have, so you have to get others to validate them too.  That's what this was really about.  The problem is, you spent too much time doing what you thought would shore them up in your eyes, and ignored the fact that this was about the worst approach you could have used with the people here.  And as a result, you've not only failed to get the validation you crave, but you've practically ensured that you won't get it here, no matter how long you argue to try to get it.

Offline screwtape

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #741 on: April 11, 2012, 12:13:07 PM »

the list goes on.  It is clear that rah means moral evil in these contexts. Yes, it can mean bad things happening, but that still leaves you with theodicy.

God did NOT create evil.  What is evil anyway?  Explain how He "created" it.

Why do I have to explain it?  It was quoted from your bible. 

A'way back up kaziglu bey quoted isaiah something something where yhwh said "i created Good and Evil" and you argued it didn't mean "Evil" it meant "calamity".  I was just showing you were wrong.

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Offline Tero

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #742 on: April 11, 2012, 12:31:34 PM »
How does this thread end? Just curious. It does not have to end, but I only have humor left to offer.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #743 on: April 11, 2012, 03:23:29 PM »
Not with a [big] bang, but a whimper. &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline velkyn

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #744 on: April 11, 2012, 03:25:58 PM »
damn it! NGFM got the good one.  :)



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Offline Tero

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #745 on: April 11, 2012, 05:21:45 PM »
Yeah, I figured. :laugh:

Offline Asmoday

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #746 on: April 11, 2012, 05:34:49 PM »
One thing that always baffles me about theists like rock here is their assumption that scientists just go with completely unfounded theories and everybody runs with it for the sole reason that we can say "It disproves God."

Not only is there the utter ridiculousness of the idea that somehow hundred thousands of scientists worldwide accept a blatantly obvious faulty theory (It has to be because people like rock who know nothing about it take one look at it and just "know" it's wrong) without even one of them speaking out against it or showing how it's wrong in a scientific way, but there's also the complete disregard for the fact that when people began to search for knowledge they did so with the assumption that God was responsible for everything.

That's what makes it so hilarious. Science never started out to come up with something to disprove God. People started looking for knowledge and they expected to find evidence for God's doing. Surprise, they did not.

What exactly is it that makes it so hard for people like rock to understand that scientists don't support the BBT or the ToE just because they want to but because it is what all evidence points at?
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #747 on: April 11, 2012, 06:03:33 PM »
Often it's the theist who claims humans are " fallen " and sinners in need of forgiveness, but, when I follow threads like this one, my opinion of humanity is always lowered to similar depths. Rock is a human being, and it is sad that we can made to be such pathetic puppets.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #748 on: April 11, 2012, 09:32:28 PM »

What exactly is it that makes it so hard for people like rock to understand that scientists don't support the BBT or the ToE just because they want to but because it is what all evidence points at?

Restated in the probably vain hope that it will gain a second glance or thought.

Offline kin hell

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #749 on: April 11, 2012, 10:51:10 PM »
I reckon it is all about lying.

I don't believe rock is confused, misinformed, or innocently mistaken.
I don't believe he thinks all supporters of ToE and BB etc are in a conspiracy.

I believe he tells himself and others, whatever lie is required to back his stupidly unconsidered indoctrinated worldview.

He is a deliberate chooser of lies.

Any amount of evidence to the contrary will be assimilated by whatever lie is necessary.
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Offline Lurking

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #750 on: April 12, 2012, 05:21:17 AM »
I reckon it is all about lying.
Yip. That's all they have.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #751 on: April 12, 2012, 02:53:52 PM »
One thing that always baffles me about theists like rock here is their assumption that scientists just go with completely unfounded theories and everybody runs with it for the sole reason that we can say "It disproves God."

Not only is there the utter ridiculousness of the idea that somehow hundred thousands of scientists worldwide accept a blatantly obvious faulty theory (It has to be because people like rock who know nothing about it take one look at it and just "know" it's wrong) without even one of them speaking out against it or showing how it's wrong in a scientific way, but there's also the complete disregard for the fact that when people began to search for knowledge they did so with the assumption that God was responsible for everything.

That's what makes it so hilarious. Science never started out to come up with something to disprove God. People started looking for knowledge and they expected to find evidence for God's doing. Surprise, they did not.

What exactly is it that makes it so hard for people like rock to understand that scientists don't support the BBT or the ToE just because they want to but because it is what all evidence points at?

Yuppo. And all over the world, no matter what the religious culture of the scientist, the science still works the same way. Scientists of every religious background support it, use it and build on it.

Wouldn't Catholic, Hindu, Muslim and Jewish scientists have proven the BBT and TOE wrong if they were so full of obvious flaws? Why has not the world overall (most of whom believe in some sort of god) thrown them out?

Maybe there is a huge centuries long global conspiracy to develop false ideas about the world and force people to accept them. Well, yeah, there is, but that is called religion, not science. Har, har, har.

Maybe these scientific theories are the best explanations we have, because the real world evidence supports them and they actually work....
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #752 on: April 12, 2012, 02:54:40 PM »
damn it! NGFM got the good one.  :)

Bada bing. Bang.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #753 on: April 12, 2012, 03:09:47 PM »
Bada bing. Bang.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised someone else saw that movie.