Author Topic: The Probability of the Big Bang  (Read 29270 times)

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Offline Tero

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #696 on: April 10, 2012, 06:22:57 AM »
Rock, the universe does not need to have a purpose just because you want it to have one.

Your entire argument about beginnings is the god of the gaps argument.

Life is spectacular. It is not perfect, but it certainly did very well by inventing a code and using sunlight to power itself, or other sources of energy (deep sea vents...you can look that up too). But it is not designed. It would have failed if it were designed, it has to adapt.

Offline Dante

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #697 on: April 10, 2012, 07:00:28 AM »
So, if your god CAN tolerate sin in his presence, what is, I repeat, the big fucking deal with our life on this realm? Why the need for seperation of here and heaven.

If you want a perfect, logical answer to that question, you simply won't get it.

Color me surprised.

Quote
Can God do such and such and why?  I can't answer every single question about God's character.  Will there be sin in heaven?  I don't know.  I don't think so.  Perhaps it's something to study. 

Have you studied scripture?

Quote
We sin and God is omnipresent, therefore He tolerates it in His presence.  God is everywhere.  There's many things that theists are incorrect on too.  I don't believe in an eternal lake of fire where Uncle Joe will burn for eternity.  I think that's a misinterpretation of Scripture.  Do I understand every single thing about heaven, hell, and God?  NO.

Then, how do you know anything? How do you know other theists misinterpret the scripture? Are you absolutely positive that it's not YOU who has misinterpreted?

How do you know?

And oh, by the way, it's ever so slightly hypocritical of you to claim that you dont have all the answers, that you just don't know everything, yet continue to bust our asses about it.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Lurking

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #698 on: April 10, 2012, 07:04:35 AM »
If you want a perfect, logical answer to that question, you simply won't get it.  Can God do such and such and why?  I can't answer every single question about God's character.
Why not? You're the one who claims to communicate with God by praying. You're the one who tells us that God answers your prayers. Ask him to answer those questions about his character, or will you give the same religious "answer" as to why God does not heal amputees? Even if it it promised that all prayers will be answered. One of the questions that hasn't been answered yet?
 
Will there be sin in heaven?  I don't know.  I don't think so.
Would the 'souls" in heaven have "free will" to sin? I hope you realise that your answer actually rebuts the normal Christian "answer" of free will, which goes: "God didn't make us to be robots".
 Will you be a robot if you end up in heaven? Will you have free will to sin? (According to the church I was raised in: you won't. You are classified as just another sinner bound to burn forever, because you don't believe exactly as they do).

 
Perhaps it's something to study.
Of course it is if it exists. Just give us an incling on how to study "heaven". You know, start by providing some verifiable evidence that heaven exists.
We sin and God is omnipresent, therefore He tolerates it in His presence.  God is everywhere.
You haven't thought this through, have you? Is your God present in the turd up Pamela Anderson's arse? Between her breasts?

 
There's many things that theists are incorrect on too.  I don't believe in an eternal lake of fire where Uncle Joe will burn for eternity.
What you believe is of no value. It's what you can demonstrate that counts.   
I think that's a misinterpretation of Scripture.  Do I understand every single thing about heaven, hell, and God?  NO.
You see, that's the difference between you and me. I look for verifiable evidence for something. You just believe without any verifiable evedince. For you it's: Come what may, I will believe anyway.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 07:29:09 AM by Lurking »

Offline Ice Monkey

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #699 on: April 10, 2012, 07:26:01 AM »
So, if your god CAN tolerate sin in his presence, what is, I repeat, the big fucking deal with our life on this realm? Why the need for seperation of here and heaven.

If I wanted to study your mytholgy to find your answers, I wouldnt be asking you. I want your interpretation. Because, ya know, its not quite the same as most theist's.

If you want a perfect, logical answer to that question, you simply won't get it.  Can God do such and such and why?  I can't answer every single question about God's character.  Will there be sin in heaven?  I don't know.  I don't think so.  Perhaps it's something to study.  We sin and God is omnipresent, therefore He tolerates it in His presence.  God is everywhere.  There's many things that theists are incorrect on too.  I don't believe in an eternal lake of fire where Uncle Joe will burn for eternity.  I think that's a misinterpretation of Scripture.  Do I understand every single thing about heaven, hell, and God?  NO.

Wishful thinking won't make your scriptures go away.  The bible's clear on how you avoid being tortured for not being perfect.  If Uncle Joe didn't accept Jesus as his personal saviour from the wrath of god, he's in hell, being tortured forever (probably from sheer boredom)
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Offline Lurking

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #700 on: April 10, 2012, 07:55:05 AM »
Quote from: rockv12
.... I don't believe in an eternal lake of fire where Uncle Joe will burn for eternity....  I think that's a misinterpretation of Scripture.  Do I understand every single thing about heaven, hell, and God?  NO.
So, you're ignoring a few scriptures to suit your belief?

That's how so many believers do it. They have to lie to themselves, too.

To give you a some examples:
Revelation 20:11 through Revelation 20:15 (NKJV) Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

And

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 (NKJV) and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

You only believe what you want to believe. Why do you ignore all those parts of the same "books", but only believe the part you want to believe?


Online jaimehlers

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #701 on: April 10, 2012, 08:08:52 AM »
There's proof all around you.  I've said it a million times.  Design requires a designer.  Ever watch the series Planet Earth?  It's mind-blowing how this world works!  Chance?  Evolution?  Never could it arise from a Big Bang that you don't even know how it happened...There's proof all around us of a world-wide flood.  Oh, hey, Biblical!  There's proof that Jesus existed and died and rose again.  More proof.  Biblical prophecy is coming true before our eyes....look at Israel.  Proof.  Have you studied Revelations?  Did these men dream a prophetic dream that is coming true?  If you want to disprove a God, you must educate yourself on these things and prove that they are untrue.  Have you done that?  If you have, then ok.  But please share if you have. You can't just say there's no evidence if you haven't truly examined the "evidence" and concluded that it's non-factual.  I doubt you have...
Like your hyperbole that you've said it a million times, saying "there's proof all around you" and "design requires a designer" and all the other things are major exaggerations, the only difference is that they're based on your preexisting belief in God.  It's impossible to conclude from the existing evidence that there is such a being unless you already believe there is one before you ever start examining it, or unless you get gulled into accepting an emotional appeal, which filters the evidence so you "see" the hand of God in it.

For example, you say that it's mind-blowing how this world works.  Now, I think that the world is pretty awesome if you actually stop and think about it, but you thinking it's mind-blowing is because you have that emotional belief in God sitting smack-dab in the middle of your ability to reason and blocking it from working properly.  It's like how if you're right next to something noisy, it'll interfere with your ability to hear, distorting things so that what you hear is not what was said.  For example, your statement about how we don't know how the Big Bang happened is true, but because your ability to reason is hobbled by your emotional belief in God, you draw the illogical and incoherent conclusion that it never could have happened, even though the evidence points straight to it or something like it.

As for your "proof" of Biblical events coming true, those are again based on your emotional belief interfering with your ability to reason.  For example, you believe that there is proof all around us of a global, worldwide flood, but there is no evidence of things that would have to be for there to have been such a flood (fossils of sea organisms on the land, and of land organisms on the sea, for example), and there is evidence of things that contradict it (such as the fact that there isn't even remotely enough water to have covered the entire Earth, even the tallest mountains).  As for Jesus's supposed resurrection, the only "evidence" we have for it is the claimed "eyewitness" accounts in the Bible (which were not written down for decades after the fact, and thus are highly untrustworthy).  There is not one single account outside of the Bible of the resurrection happening.  And as for the existence of Israel being the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy, this is nonsense.  Israel exists because the British felt guilty about the Holocaust and decided to "give" the Jews a homeland, even though they were already starting the process of pulling out of the area.  It is no more the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy than the Holocaust was, than the pogroms and torture that Jews suffered for over a thousand years was.  Revelations (and yes, I have read it) is not a prophetic dream, it is a mishmash of writings that make no sense.  It is only the tendency of people to see patterns that don't really exist that fools them into thinking that it's prophecy.

In other words, there is no reason at all for me to think of these things as literal, factual evidence that your belief is true.  You must first show them to be valid and accurate before you can demand that others have to disprove them or else they're true.  Since you haven't, that is your first step - collate the evidence that exists and show that your belief fits all of it and is not contradicted by any of it.  If you can do that, then you can expect people to take you seriously.

Offline velkyn

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #702 on: April 10, 2012, 08:35:26 AM »
The original Hebrew word used is "rah" and it does not necessarily mean moral evil.  It means calamity and distress.  It does NOT say God created evil.

Ah, but it can mean evil with no problem and since this god has created everything as Christians claim, even Satan and evidently has a use for Satan (Job, Revelation, getting the cruxifiction to work), your god evidently did created and indeed needs evil for its universe to work.  It's only your desperate attempts to claim otherwise that become all you have.   A good review of the problem Christians have with their bible and their god and its relationship to evil: http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/01/little-known-bible-verses-v-god-creates-evil.html

oh and the moronic attempts by rockv12 to claim that his god is the creator since we can see things "all around us", but again being unable to show it is his god and that he's the only right theist on the face of the earth.  Rockv12, without evidence yuo are just making up stories.  And no prophecy isn't coming true.   There's no reason to think this time its coming true because some Christian decides to try to make that nonsense fit again.  You've all failed repeatedly. 

But if Revelation is a prophecy, when does your god decide to work with the "beast" as is foretold?  When does supposed pure good decide to ally with evil to make sure more humans are corrupted?  And rockv12, I've read the bible, and it's only the stories on one more failed religion.  No evidence supports it.  I've shared, and I'm sure you'll come up with some other lie to declare that no one "really" has so yuo can retain your ignorance.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #703 on: April 10, 2012, 08:44:45 AM »
The original Hebrew word used is "rah" and it does not necessarily mean moral evil.  It means calamity and distress.  It does NOT say God created evil.

You are wrong.  rah is also used in genesis 2:9: "and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."  Note, the good there is "tove" which is moral good.  So, rah is juxtaposed with moral good.  Are you saying it is the tree of knowledge of good and calamity?  Because if so, it sounds pretty stupid.

genesis 6:5 :"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually." Rah is used here for both wickedness and evil. Or are you saying it should read:
"And GOD saw that the calamity of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only calamity continually." ?  Because if so, it sounds pretty stupid.

genesis 13:13: "But the men of Sodom [were] wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly"
wicked = Rah.  Are you saying the men of Sodom were calamity and sinners before the lord?  Because if so, it sounds pretty stupid.

the list goes on.  It is clear that rah means moral evil in these contexts. Yes, it can mean bad things happening, but that still leaves you with theodicy. 
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #704 on: April 10, 2012, 09:18:10 AM »
.....I think what I said was "So why don't we see this happening in real life?".....

Oh my.  That's exactly what you said!  You expect God to do what He says He will do.  And prayer was an example of yours.  The Bible says "whatever you ask in my name, I will give it unto you"......

Oh my - did everyone else miss this?

You expect God to do what He says He will do

Yes Rock, I do.  Regardless of any other question or point that has been raised about evolution or anything else, if I were to consider your god as being deserving of love or worship (let alone existing), then the very first step would be that he does what he says he will do.

Because if - as seems to be the case here - you are calling Alz foolish for expecting god does what he says he will do.....then what argument IS there for your god?  Are you honestly saying "love and worship my god, because he lies and can't be trusted?"
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Alzael

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #705 on: April 10, 2012, 10:01:29 AM »

You're presuming an awful lot. Where is your evidence of any of these claims?

The Bible.

Cool, if we're gonng play that game then here's my evidence for the greek pantheon.







It seems I win. Not only does my evidence have good visuals it also has a rocking music score.



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Offline caveat_imperator

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #706 on: April 10, 2012, 02:23:57 PM »

Good grief, you are horrible at trying to make us believe your lies!
As everyone can see, you were asking about the beginning of time which has nothing to do with biological evolution!

It has EVERYTHING to do with biological evolution!

Repeating your lie and claiming it's the truth won't make it any less of a lie.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 02:27:14 PM by caveat_imperator »
You can't prove a negative of an existence postulate.

Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #707 on: April 10, 2012, 09:57:16 PM »

Then, how do you know anything? How do you know other theists misinterpret the scripture? Are you absolutely positive that it's not YOU who has misinterpreted?

How do you know?

And oh, by the way, it's ever so slightly hypocritical of you to claim that you dont have all the answers, that you just don't know everything, yet continue to bust our asses about it.

Am I positive I haven't misinterpreted Scripture?  Of course not.  You can't just say, "We don't have the answers to the beginning of time" but believe it whole-heartedly though. 

I expect that if you believe evolution then you should have proof of it.  If you want to disprove God by saying that it's silly to believe in something that we can't understand, then you must apply the same principle to your own beliefs. 

Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #708 on: April 10, 2012, 10:00:29 PM »

Repeating your lie and claiming it's the truth won't make it any less of a lie.

Lie?  What is going on here?  How is what I said a lie?  I just said that the HUGE unanswered and mysterious question of how all things began should be a rather large question in one's mind.  And evolution is NOT proven.  Nobody even can agree or figure out how the first living cell formed and what happened soon after that!  It's ALL assumption and everyone knows it.

Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #709 on: April 10, 2012, 10:02:34 PM »

Yes Rock, I do.  Regardless of any other question or point that has been raised about evolution or anything else, if I were to consider your god as being deserving of love or worship (let alone existing), then the very first step would be that he does what he says he will do.

Because if - as seems to be the case here - you are calling Alz foolish for expecting god does what he says he will do.....then what argument IS there for your god?  Are you honestly saying "love and worship my god, because he lies and can't be trusted?"

Arguing Scripture without having studied it is not the best way to win an argument.  When and where did God say He will do something and not do it?  Give me one example in the Bible.

Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #710 on: April 10, 2012, 10:04:10 PM »

the list goes on.  It is clear that rah means moral evil in these contexts. Yes, it can mean bad things happening, but that still leaves you with theodicy.

God did NOT create evil.  What is evil anyway?  Explain how He "created" it. 

Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #711 on: April 10, 2012, 10:05:48 PM »

"Proof" is for math and alcohol.

What we're dealing with in this topic is "evidence".  Big difference.


Evidence for evolution.  Can you show one good example of evidence?  The best of all pieces of evidence that exists for evolution....what is it? 

Offline Alzael

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #712 on: April 10, 2012, 10:22:18 PM »
Arguing Scripture without having studied it is not the best way to win an argument.  When and where did God say He will do something and not do it?  Give me one example in the Bible.

I already gave you several examples of where he said he would do soemthing. I'm still waiting for your proof that he ever did it.

However I'm expecting another set of lies, dodges, and cop-outs, mixed with some Strawmen. Let's see if you live down to my expectations.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 10:24:23 PM by Alzael »
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Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #713 on: April 10, 2012, 10:29:04 PM »

The fact that there are innocent children suffering and dying in this world is the single biggest reason I cannot believe in, much less worship, your god. Do you really think anyone has ever seen children starving to death and thought "Wow, this really makes me appreciate god now"?
What would make more sense (if there actually was an omnipotent and omnibenevolent god who enforced free will) is for each individual to be punished relative to his bad choices. If my life was shit because I kept making bad (you would say sinful) choices while every god-worshipper around me was thriving, that would certainly compel me to give this god a try. That's how a god could uphold free will without allowing such extremely heinous things to occur. 
But of course, that's not what we get in this world. As it is, there are millions of innocent children who spend their lives in unimaginable suffering and ultimately die of hunger! We also have plenty of examples of evil people like Hitler, Pol Pot, and Kim Jong Il who acquire unimaginable power, wealth, and hey, way more fucking food than they could ever eat!

Such ridiculous extremes are not necessary to foster individual free will, and any god that allows them is not worthy of worship. Why do you think that he is?

Ever read "The Problem With Pain" by C.S. Lewis?  It would help you understand a bit better. 

Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #714 on: April 10, 2012, 10:31:02 PM »

I already gave you several examples of where he said he would do soemthing. I'm still waiting for your proof that he ever did it.

However I'm expecting another set of lies, dodges, and cop-outs, mixed with some Strawmen. Let's see if you live down to my expectations.

I don't remember any examples.  Can you give another?  Sorry.  I'll try not to lie this time...

Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #715 on: April 10, 2012, 10:32:49 PM »

Once again; you failed to do the research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang#Observational_evidence

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/astronomy/bigbang.html


I've researched it.  And where is the proof again?  The universe is expanding?  How is that proof of a Big Bang? 

Offline Alzael

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #716 on: April 10, 2012, 10:36:36 PM »
I don't remember any examples.  Can you give another?  Sorry.  I'll try not to lie this time...

That's almost certainly a lie right there. But go back to post 666 and we'll start with that. As for not lying........your entire posting history so far says otherwise but I'm an optimist. Maybe I'll actually be surprised.


I've researched it.  And where is the proof again?  The universe is expanding?  How is that proof of a Big Bang? 

You.......you......do you ever even read what you type? This statement is so mind-numbingly...........I need a Tylenol. I can't handle stupid of this level without heavy drugs.
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Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #717 on: April 10, 2012, 10:37:26 PM »
Quote from: rockv12
.... I don't believe in an eternal lake of fire where Uncle Joe will burn for eternity....  I think that's a misinterpretation of Scripture.  Do I understand every single thing about heaven, hell, and God?  NO.
So, you're ignoring a few scriptures to suit your belief?

That's how so many believers do it. They have to lie to themselves, too.

To give you a some examples:
Revelation 20:11 through Revelation 20:15 (NKJV) Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

And

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 (NKJV) and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

You only believe what you want to believe. Why do you ignore all those parts of the same "books", but only believe the part you want to believe?

The Bible is laden with imagery in parts.  The Bible says if your right hand causes you to sin, then cut it off.  This doesn't mean we should all cut off our arms!  It's showing the seriousness of sin.  Does it make sense that there will be a lake of fire and that Uncle Joe, who wasn't a Christian but a pretty nice guy, and Uncle Joe will be burning in flames for eternity because he didn't accept Jesus?  The Bible says the wages of sin is death.  Death means death, NOT eternally living in pain on fire.  Those verses are up for interpretation.  What is hell?  I'm not sure, but I don't want to die and miss out on heaven. 

Offline Aaron123

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #718 on: April 10, 2012, 10:39:38 PM »
Lie?  What is going on here?  How is what I said a lie?  I just said that the HUGE unanswered and mysterious question of how all things began should be a rather large question in one's mind.  And evolution is NOT proven.  Nobody even can agree or figure out how the first living cell formed and what happened soon after that!  It's ALL assumption and everyone knows it.

You are complaining about abiogenesis, not evolution.

Evolution is about changes in life.  Not about the origins of life.  Get. That. Though. Your. Fucking. Head. Already.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline JeffPT

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #719 on: April 10, 2012, 10:40:12 PM »
Evidence for evolution.  Can you show one good example of evidence?  The best of all pieces of evidence that exists for evolution....what is it?

This will be a waste of time, but I'm a glutton for punishment tonight. 

Evolution is a theory that says all living things change over time due to random mutation and natural selection. 

Here is an EXTREMELY short list of things that are evidence in support this theory....

Genetic material is passed down from generation to generation.
Random mutations occur and we know they occur because they are often causes of genetic disorders that can be tracked and labeled as mutations.
The earth is very, very old.
Fossils of specific species that are found only in one geological strata are never found in others.  Ever.
Breeding of animals and plants is very successful and uses exactly the same process, with the only difference being the fact that humans choose which traits are kept.
We share large stretches of DNA with many, many different species including other animals and plants. 
Whales breathing air but living in the ocean.
The recurrent laryngeal nerve.
Sharks having white bellies and backs.
Sharp teeth.
Camel humps. 

There are just too many things to name.  You could go on for days.  Every single thing in that list is a FACT that supports the theory of evolution. And that's how theories work.  They explain how facts fit together.  This is the biggest problem you face.  You don't seem to be able to grasp that.  What you are ASKING for is evidence, and that's what you've been given, over and over again.  What you are looking for is absolute proof.  That is not possible in any situation, including other very well attested theories that you probably have no problem accepting like the germ theory of disease, the heliocentric theory of our solar system, the molecular theory, etc.  There is no absolute proof of any of those.  Same with evolution.  But all the current evidence we have supports them, and that's what makes them valid theories. 

You keep asking for proof.  "Where's the proof!?" "Nobody is showing me the proof!" In order to see it, you have to stop being so pig headed and listen to what we're saying to you.  We HAVE given you proof.  We HAVE.  You just aren't thinking it through. 

Just try to think of it like this.  You're walking through the woods and something cold hits you on the back of the head.  You didn't see where it came from, but you turn around and your friend is 10 yards away from you, bending over and scooping up some snow off the ground.  What you immediately come up with is a THEORY that explains who and what hit you.  You gather your facts... "cold, snowball, friend behind me, rolling another snowball up, short distance away, nobody else around" and you form your theory... "My friend hit me with a snowball."  Each of your facts is EVIDENCE that your theory is valid, but everyone knows you have no way of absolutely proving that your friend threw it.  He could even testify under oath that he threw it and that wouldn't be enough to absolutely prove he did.  But your theory is pretty valid, none-the-less, because ALL the facts fit with your theory.  None of the facts go against it.  That is the same process we use to conclude that the theory of evolution is valid, only there is literally thousands and thousands of facts to back it up instead of just the few you have in my snowball example.   

That is as simple as I think I can make it.  If you can't understand it like that, then I don't know what to tell you. 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #720 on: April 10, 2012, 10:41:53 PM »
You.......you......do you ever even read what you type? This statement is so mind-numbingly...........I need a Tylenol. I can't handle stupid of this level without heavy drugs.

The universe is expanding.  And this is proof of a Big Bang?  Please explain.  Acting like I asked a dumb question does not answer the dumb question.  Please explain how it happened.  I'm serious.

And the Earth was part of this expansion that was able to hold the elements for life?  And this life emerged from chaos and evolution created you and I and all the extreme diverse life forms we see today?  And the Big Bang was caused by?  And the elements and matter got there how?  And what caused the explosion?  And how did we evolve again?  That's mind-numbing if you think about it.  Have you ever really thought about the entire process that you propose?

Offline JeffPT

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #721 on: April 10, 2012, 10:47:37 PM »
The Bible is laden with imagery in parts.  The Bible says if your right hand causes you to sin, then cut it off.  This doesn't mean we should all cut off our arms!  It's showing the seriousness of sin. 

So it's a metaphor for sin?  Oh, I see! 

Wait a minute, let's go further with that idea.  The bible says that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead 3 days later.  This doesn't mean he ACTUALLY did that; it means when the going gets tough, you gotta get back up no matter how hard it is.   OH, I SEE how this works.  So the whole thing is just a giant metaphor and it's not real after all.  I get it. 

Does it make sense that there will be a lake of fire and that Uncle Joe, who wasn't a Christian but a pretty nice guy, and Uncle Joe will be burning in flames for eternity because he didn't accept Jesus?

No more or less sense than the idea that if you prostrate yourself before an invisible sky man who sent himself down to earth and sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself, you'll get to spend an eternity in your happy place. 

The Bible says the wages of sin is death.  Death means death, NOT eternally living in pain on fire.  Those verses are up for interpretation.  What is hell?  I'm not sure, but I don't want to die and miss out on heaven.

Hell is a human invention designed for fear and control of the masses. 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline Aaron123

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #722 on: April 10, 2012, 10:48:27 PM »
Evidence for evolution.  Can you show one good example of evidence?  The best of all pieces of evidence that exists for evolution....what is it?

Oh for fucks' sake...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=evidence+evolution


Quote
I've researched it.  And where is the proof again?  The universe is expanding?  How is that proof of a Big Bang?

You are being nothing more than a hardass.

1) We already went through this proof/evidence thing.

2) You're lying when you said you did the research.  At this point, there's no use pretending that you're looking for "proof" of things.  You're just 'asking' questions until we give up trying to explain things, at which point, you're going to exclaim "magic man done it!" (which you accept without question, whatever).  Refusing to understand something does not mean it is ok to invoke magic.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #723 on: April 10, 2012, 10:49:39 PM »

Genetic material is passed down from generation to generation.
Random mutations occur and we know they occur because they are often causes of genetic disorders that can be tracked and labeled as mutations.
The earth is very, very old.
Fossils of specific species that are found only in one geological strata are never found in others.  Ever.
Breeding of animals and plants is very successful and uses exactly the same process, with the only difference being the fact that humans choose which traits are kept.
We share large stretches of DNA with many, many different species including other animals and plants. 
Whales breathing air but living in the ocean.
The recurrent laryngeal nerve.
Sharks having white bellies and backs.
Sharp teeth.
Camel humps. 


Ok. I'll comment on a few of these.  Thanks for the list by the way.  Genetic material proves nothing.  We have the same DNA as a monkey?  So?  We have teeth and eyes like many animals, that doesn't mean we evolved from each other. The earth is NOT very old.  Can you prove that it's as old as some say it is?  What are your fool-proof methods of dating?  That's a major area of disagreement, btw.  Mutations occur.  So what?  Fossils found in the same layer is up for argument also.  Dating methods...which have been proven?  Whales?  They breathe air?  So?  Sharp teeth?  What?

Those are the best arguments and evidence that evolution has to offer?  And nobody can answer how the hummingbird evolved....  Think about the process of evolution from start to finish.  Does it seem plausible?  Step by step...think about what you are believing. 

Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #724 on: April 10, 2012, 10:51:21 PM »

You are being nothing more than a hardass.

1) We already went through this proof/evidence thing.

2) You're lying when you said you did the research.  At this point, there's no use pretending that you're looking for "proof" of things.  You're just 'asking' questions until we give up trying to explain things, at which point, you're going to exclaim "magic man done it!" (which you accept without question, whatever).  Refusing to understand something does not mean it is ok to invoke magic.

And you can't tell me in your own words how that it's proof of a Big Bang?  I NEVER get an answer, just accusations of lying.  Can you please answer a question?