Author Topic: The Probability of the Big Bang  (Read 34530 times)

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Online One Above All

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #435 on: March 27, 2012, 05:59:15 AM »
Genesis is an account of various species or 'kinds' being created. I don't see how that rules out changes in those species over time.

Because those species were created exactly as they are now and 6000-10000 years ago?[1]

Changes in species is not controversial, after all. We can witness it.

Tell that to the anti-"evilution" crowd.
 1. According to the Bible, obviously. Reality begs to differ.
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Offline Tero

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #436 on: March 27, 2012, 06:10:06 AM »
Tero,  Fish swimming in a school is hardly what I'm talking about.  You don't think the inner ear follows under a design of perfection to complete the auditory task that it has?  An explosion of gases blew a universe into existence, then Earth landed perfectly with the elements to sustain life, and we grew out of the mess?  That's the design I'm talking about....not fish swimming together....  It's far more complicated.
Exactly! You now explained it, you won the lottery by getting born on the miracle planet.

Other than the ear being designed.  I already posted the links to that.

Optimized, tried and tested, yes. Not designed.

Offline Fiji

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #437 on: March 27, 2012, 06:50:15 AM »
Genesis is an account of various species or 'kinds' being created. I don't see how that rules out changes in those species over time.

It doesn't. If a god were to create various 'kinds' with DNA (or some similar carrier for the genetic code) then that life would go on to evolve and diversify.
This is however, a hypothetical world. The fossil record in that world would show all known species converging to a number of basic 'kinds' and stop there. In strata older than that creation moment, there would be nothing. Not simpler lifeforms, not plants, not bacteria ... nothing.
This, we don't see in our world. The way Ratzi the Pope deals with it, is by accepting evolution but positing that the very first life was created by his particular flavour of god and that that god picked (at random, presumably) a point in the evolution from ape to man to inject a soul.
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #438 on: March 27, 2012, 06:59:20 AM »
Genesis is an account of various species or 'kinds' being created. I don't see how that rules out changes in those species over time.

It don't.  But you then need to ask why on Earth a creator god would make things that would then change over time.  Didn't he make them properly back then?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #439 on: March 27, 2012, 07:35:23 AM »
There's also the "Genesis was 6-10k years ago" part, though, which does preclude much change.
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Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #440 on: March 27, 2012, 09:00:16 AM »

Exactly! You now explained it, you won the lottery by getting born on the miracle planet.

Other than the ear being designed.  I already posted the links to that.

Optimized, tried and tested, yes. Not designed.

You think it's simple luck, someone has to win, therefore odds mean nothing.  The fact is that it is impossible, therefore, we can't win the "lottery".  Prove how life springing up out of chaos that we can't explain how it got here is possible.  Then we can talk.

The middle ear evolved?  You posted links to how jawbones turned into the middle ear ossicles.  Just because there are answers and links on the internet to what evolutionists think happened doesn't make me go, "Oh...well...that's how it happened huh?  Now I see!".  Because the answers are so simplistic and imaginative.  NO proof.  Just because one living thing has a short "thing" and another living thing has a "long" thing, doesn't mean that the long one MUST have evolved from the short one.  This is basically how evolutionists look at "evidence".  Anything to make a half-ass theory sound semi-logical.

Offline velkyn

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #441 on: March 27, 2012, 09:35:41 AM »
You think it's simple luck, someone has to win, therefore odds mean nothing.  The fact is that it is impossible, therefore, we can't win the "lottery".  Prove how life springing up out of chaos that we can't explain how it got here is possible.  Then we can talk.
more ignorance and evidently intentionally stupidity.  What a pity, you have to keep lying so much, and supposedly your god hates liars.

Quote
The middle ear evolved?  You posted links to how jawbones turned into the middle ear ossicles.  Just because there are answers and links on the internet to what evolutionists think happened doesn't make me go, "Oh...well...that's how it happened huh?  Now I see!".  Because the answers are so simplistic and imaginative.  NO proof.  Just because one living thing has a short "thing" and another living thing has a "long" thing, doesn't mean that the long one MUST have evolved from the short one.  This is basically how evolutionists look at "evidence".  Anything to make a half-ass theory sound semi-logical.

wow, you are a willfully ignorant person, rockv and a liar.  That's so cute, seeing all that you have to support your claims are lies.  Amazing.  And the hypocrisy!  You couldn't be better at it.   You are shown evidence supporting evolutionary theory repeatedly, you are taught about what evolutionary theory really is, not your strawman version, and you still refuse to accept what you've been shown, even though the same science you benefit from everyday supports evolutionary theory.

It's a shame that all your religion is based on is lies, fear and greed.   It's a shame that you aren't even honest enough to refuse to use modern antibiotics, modern food animals and plants, computers, etc, since all of those depend on the science you claim doesn't work.   
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #442 on: March 27, 2012, 10:06:47 AM »
You think it's simple luck, someone has to win, therefore odds mean nothing.  The fact is that it is impossible, therefore, we can't win the "lottery".  Prove how life springing up out of chaos that we can't explain how it got here is possible.  Then we can talk.

The middle ear evolved?  You posted links to how jawbones turned into the middle ear ossicles.  Just because there are answers and links on the internet to what evolutionists think happened doesn't make me go, "Oh...well...that's how it happened huh?  Now I see!".  Because the answers are so simplistic and imaginative.  NO proof.  Just because one living thing has a short "thing" and another living thing has a "long" thing, doesn't mean that the long one MUST have evolved from the short one.  This is basically how evolutionists look at "evidence".  Anything to make a half-ass theory sound semi-logical.
As opposed to you, who goes, "I can't figure out how it works, so it must have been magic!  God did it, all praise the Almighty Creator for miraculously making everything just as we need it and making all life as we know it absolutely perfect!"  This is the essence of your argument, you have made that abundantly clear.

Do you not understand how ridiculous it is for you, who has already admitted that you don't get how evolution works, to presume that you are competent to judge how accurate it is?  Especially as you keep clamoring for proof, failing to understand that science isn't about proof.  It's about evidence, and understanding the evidence, and figuring out ways that the evidence fits together, and excluding the ways which can be shown to not work.  Not pretending that somehow, everything that lives is perfect because it supports your belief in a Divine Creator.  Because, it isn't and it never will be.  Perfection - true perfection, with no flaws - simply doesn't exist in this universe.  What most people consider "perfection" is simply something where the flaws are too small to see.

You accuse scientists of coming up with simplistic and imaginative answers, yet your own belief is the essence of simplicity and imagination.  Because of this, you must manufacture ways to make science look even less convincing than your own beliefs, because otherwise those beliefs would look ridiculous in your own eyes.  It's true that scientists try to answer with fairly simple explanations, and it's also true that they have to imagine how the evidence might fit together, but the simple explanations fit the facts, rather than trying to make the facts fit them, and the imagination they must use is tempered and disciplined so that they do not come up with fanciful "explanations" that require contorting the evidence to fit them.  And if the explanations are shown to be wrong, then they correct them to be in line with the new evidence.

Have you ever admitted that you might be wrong about there being a creator?  Have you ever even seriously tried to consider it?  I suspect not.

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #443 on: March 27, 2012, 11:25:28 AM »
Just because there are answers and links on the internet to what evolutionists think happened doesn't make me go, "Oh...well...that's how it happened huh?  Now I see!". 

Your stupidity and obstinance does not invalidate evolution.  In fact, it kind of proves it.  Ever since people have banded together in scoieties and mostly eradicated our large predators, there has been no natural mechanism to weed out the stupid.  It used to be sabertooth tigers would eat people like you.  But they are extinct.  Now, idiots flourish.  See how it works? 

You have evolution to thank for your existence.
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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #444 on: March 27, 2012, 02:48:19 PM »
You accuse scientists of coming up with simplistic and imaginative answers, yet your own belief is the essence of simplicity and imagination. 

This part especially, bears repeating. And for Rockv to fail to see this, or admit it to himself, indicates his failure to actually seek any truth.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Tero

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #445 on: March 27, 2012, 04:44:27 PM »
No luck was involved in evolving. Your personal luck was being the product of molecules and creatures doing their best on a friendly planet. The molecules in you randomly collected here, so there was a bit of luck. And your mommy and daddy mating and just of dad's missiles could make you. A winner! There are no losers in your family tree. Including critters with one bone un the middle ear.
You think it's simple luck, someone has to win, therefore odds mean nothing.  The fact is that it is impossible, therefore, we can't win the "lottery".  Prove how life springing up out of chaos that we can't explain how it got here is possible.  Then we can talk.

The middle ear evolved?  You posted links to how jawbones turned into the middle ear ossicles.  Just because there are answers and links on the internet to what evolutionists think happened doesn't make me go, "Oh...well...that's how it happened huh?  Now I see!".  Because the answers are so simplistic and imaginative.  NO proof.  Just because one living thing has a short "thing" and another living thing has a "long" thing, doesn't mean that the long one MUST have evolved from the short one.  This is basically how evolutionists look at "evidence".  Anything to make a half-ass theory sound semi-logical.

Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #446 on: March 27, 2012, 10:26:13 PM »
No luck was involved in evolving. Your personal luck was being the product of molecules and creatures doing their best on a friendly planet. The molecules in you randomly collected here, so there was a bit of luck. And your mommy and daddy mating and just of dad's missiles could make you. A winner! There are no losers in your family tree. Including critters with one bone un the middle ear.
No luck was involved in evolving?  Please explain a bit better than the above...

Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #447 on: March 27, 2012, 10:33:41 PM »
Have you ever admitted that you might be wrong about there being a creator?  Have you ever even seriously tried to consider it?  I suspect not.

Yet, in your post above, you offer no answers to my previous questions other than, "you just don't understand the science behind evolution."  But I get no answers to how the middle ear evolved or any of my other '"tough" questions.  Seems that it's all simple and easy to understand when you look at these simplistic, big steps in your evolutionary theory.

Wrong about a creator?  Of course I have given thought to it.  But I look at more than simply creation alone for evidence.  I look at Biblical accuracy, the life and death of Jesus and His resurrection, and I look at how God works in my life and my connection to Him.  Have you ever talked to a born-again Christian after being "saved"?  How do they respond?  Do you think it's simply a psychological change that makes them a different person?  Do you think that it's a warm fuzzy feeling that they get and their inner self makes them a better person?  Do you think that all the "miracles" and answers to prayer that are reported everyday are all coincidence?  Ask Geezer Butler of Black Sabbath if the devil is real.  There is a dark spiritual world that exists that is apparent!  It's far more than just creation vs. evolution.  I don't simply believe because Grandpa Jim told me that God exists.  I have reasons and NO blind faith.  Seems like evolution is WAY more blind faith than believing in God...

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #448 on: March 27, 2012, 10:44:18 PM »
Because drugged out metal icons are who we should trust to give accurate acounts of reality.  &)

This is the 2nd time in as many months that a theist has appealed to the authority of a member of Black Sabbath, a musical group of entertainers! If I find prominent atheist musicians, would you deconvert?

What do you mean "how" did the ear evolve? It evolved over eons, due to selective pressures and mutated genes, that's "how". Could you be more specific? What answer would sway you? What exact level of detail, what evidence do you seek?
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #449 on: March 28, 2012, 01:05:12 AM »
Yet, in your post above, you offer no answers to my previous questions other than, "you just don't understand the science behind evolution."  But I get no answers to how the middle ear evolved or any of my other '"tough" questions.  Seems that it's all simple and easy to understand when you look at these simplistic, big steps in your evolutionary theory.
I'm quite sure I've said that I'm not a biologist, let alone an evolutionary biologist.  You might as well be asking someone who knows something about computers to describe the exact sequence of machine language used to execute various commands on your computer, and if they can't, it's "blind faith".  But you don't have to know that sequence in order to know the computer works, nor do I have to know the exact path that various body structures evolved through to know that they did evolve.  It isn't a matter of blind faith, or faith at all, it's a matter of trusting someone's expertise and knowledge.

Quote from: rockv12
Wrong about a creator?  Of course I have given thought to it.  But I look at more than simply creation alone for evidence.  I look at Biblical accuracy, the life and death of Jesus and His resurrection, and I look at how God works in my life and my connection to Him.  Have you ever talked to a born-again Christian after being "saved"?  How do they respond?  Do you think it's simply a psychological change that makes them a different person?  Do you think that it's a warm fuzzy feeling that they get and their inner self makes them a better person?  Do you think that all the "miracles" and answers to prayer that are reported everyday are all coincidence?  Ask Geezer Butler of Black Sabbath if the devil is real.  There is a dark spiritual world that exists that is apparent!  It's far more than just creation vs. evolution.  I don't simply believe because Grandpa Jim told me that God exists.  I have reasons and NO blind faith.  Seems like evolution is WAY more blind faith than believing in God..
You say that you have no blind faith, yet you claim Biblical accuracy, based on a Bible that's been essentially rewritten and edited countless times; you claim the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, despite the complete dearth of any evidence besides the Bible; you claim how God works in your life despite the fact that this is completely subjective.  You cannot do anything that you could not have done anyway because of what you claim is God's presence.  Geezer Butler also cannot do anything special because of his belief in the devil's reality.

Yes, I do think it is a psychological change that they create for themselves that makes a person who has a religious experience different, whether it's a born-again Christian or a devil worshiper or whoever.  You may dismissively refer to it as a "warm fuzzy feeling", but a person's emotions and what they want to be real will affect their perception of what is real.  The thing they believe in doesn't have to actually exist in order to affect them.  And as for miracles and answered prayers, care to wager how many prayers aren't answered by miracles?  Nobody ever seems to worry about that.  Nobody counts when a miracle doesn't happen, nobody counts when there's no response to a prayer.  It's always God's will if something does happen, and God's will if something doesn't.  Which is mighty convenient for a belief system which has reasons but "no blind faith", as you put it.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #450 on: March 28, 2012, 02:58:42 AM »
I get no answers to how the middle ear evolved or any of my other '"tough" questions. 

Was a Great Dane always precisely a Great Dane, was a Chihuahua always precisely a Chihuahua, or did they both change into their current forms from some kind of dog-like ancestor?

Look at a bone in a Great Dane.  Then look at a bone in a Chihuahua.  Somewhat different, wouldn't you say?  Perhaps you would care to explain how one "kind" of dog turned into two so dramatically different creatures?  Or is it, perhaps, possible that tiny little changes, stacked one after the other, can lead to dramatically different results?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Tero

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #451 on: March 28, 2012, 06:14:56 AM »
No luck was involved in evolving. Your personal luck was being the product of molecules and creatures doing their best on a friendly planet. The molecules in you randomly collected here, so there was a bit of luck. And your mommy and daddy mating and just of dad's missiles could make you. A winner! There are no losers in your family tree. Including critters with one bone un the middle ear.
No luck was involved in evolving?  Please explain a bit better than the above...
I was on the phone that time. Of course you were extremely lucky to be your particular collection of molecules. You could have been an earth worm, or at best, chimpanzee. But your personal luck was the lottery grand prize in our solar system: human.

But evolution does not care about you, it needs no luck to produce organisms, only survival.

Offline velkyn

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #452 on: March 28, 2012, 09:47:21 AM »
Wrong about a creator?  Of course I have given thought to it.  But I look at more than simply creation alone for evidence.  I look at Biblical accuracy,
It isn't.

 
Quote
the life and death of Jesus and His resurrection,
no evidence for any of this.

Quote
and I look at how God works in my life and my connection to Him.
  all theists make the same claim.  does that make their gods just as real as yours? 

and rockv, again, you show you have no idea what evolutionary theory says or that you benefit from it everyday. 
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Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #453 on: March 28, 2012, 10:43:53 AM »

Look at a bone in a Great Dane.  Then look at a bone in a Chihuahua.  Somewhat different, wouldn't you say?  Perhaps you would care to explain how one "kind" of dog turned into two so dramatically different creatures?  Or is it, perhaps, possible that tiny little changes, stacked one after the other, can lead to dramatically different results?

Yea, a midget is a lot different than Arnold Schwarzeneggar.  They are both humans.  What's your point you're so desperately trying to make?  That evolution is true because we have different sized dogs? 

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #454 on: March 28, 2012, 10:48:21 AM »
"Human" is the common name for our species. "Dog" is not a name for any species. You can call a being a dog, but its species is not "dog".
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 10:51:23 AM by Lucifer »
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Offline Asmoday

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #455 on: March 28, 2012, 11:04:09 AM »
Yea, a midget is a lot different than Arnold Schwarzeneggar.  They are both humans.  What's your point you're so desperately trying to make?  That evolution is true because we have different sized dogs?
A Chihuahua is not a midget Great Dane. In the same way that a human midget is not some kind of distinct human breed.

Try again.
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Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #456 on: March 28, 2012, 02:34:02 PM »
A Chihuahua is not a midget Great Dane. In the same way that a human midget is not some kind of distinct human breed.
Try again.
[/quote] 
This thread has gotten outta control.  What's your point?  Please, say more than simple questions, and act like "I gotcha!!" with every response.  How is evolution proven by using the above example????

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #457 on: March 28, 2012, 03:11:09 PM »
This thread has gotten outta control. 

I agree.  for example:

Ask Geezer Butler of Black Sabbath if the devil is real. 


Before you demand more from the people here who understand evolution and have been generous enough to try to educate you, perhaps you could show some willingness to put a little more effort into your posts?

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Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #458 on: March 28, 2012, 03:19:42 PM »
Before you demand more from the people here who understand evolution and have been generous enough to try to educate you, perhaps you could show some willingness to put a little more effort into your posts?

I wasn't asking anybody to contact Geezer Butler.  Just making a point that even non-Christians will tell you that there is a devil.

Nobody has educated me on anything...everytime I ask a difficult question, I get "Well, we can't understand every little thing about evolution, but we know the basics and that's enough for now".  ZERO education was received on how a hummingbird evolved or why.  Now if you want to accuse me of not putting effort into my posts, I suggest you do some effort and answer some of the "tougher" questions.  Where did we come from?  How did we get here?  You can't start in the middle of the story with evolution.  You have to answer the foundational question of "where did we come from?".  Nobody can do that, therefore evolution is missing a major little part to it's shoddy story. So where do you want to start?  The Big Bang/beginning of time...OR the hummingbird?  These are questions that should be answered if you want to prove that there is NO God, nor evidence for a God.

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #459 on: March 28, 2012, 03:24:19 PM »
I wasn't asking anybody to contact Geezer Butler.  Just making a point that even non-Christians will tell you that there is a devil.

No shit. Religions need a "worse guy" to make the "bad guy" seem like the "good guy". Now, if you get an atheist to say that there's a devil, you're dealing with what's known as a "liar".

Nobody has educated me on anything...everytime I ask a difficult question, I get "Well, we can't understand every little thing about evolution, but we know the basics and that's enough for now".

Liar. Your questions are neither difficult nor unanswered. What you're asking has been addressed several times. You want to know how every species on the planet evolved? Devote your life to biology and you will. You want proof of evolution? Read our posts.


By the way, why are you so afraid of looking at the evidence? Surely if your god is real, the evidence will show it. If the evidence doesn't prove evolution, then surely you can point out the flaws. What you're doing right now is being dishonest, which doesn't help your case.
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Offline Alzael

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #460 on: March 28, 2012, 03:27:09 PM »
Saying it's an "argument from ignorance" does NOT make it an untrue argument. 

No, that's quite accurate. It does not necessarily make it untrue. It does, however, do nothing to make it more true. And, more to the point, it also serves to make the argument essentially useless. Going by the logic that you present, EVERY idea about how things happened is equally valid. If we accept your argument then every idea, no matter how unlikely or stupid, must also be considered viable. Also since your criteria for an idea being plausible is limited to nothing more than the fact that we don't know what really happened with absolute certainty (which is something that is impossible) then you have ruled out any chance of ever knowing which idea is the truth. This does not actually strength your position.

Looked at in the very best possible way, all this would do if it were accepted is bring every other idea down to your level. In other words it doesn't make your position any smarter, it just makes the other positions equally as idiotic. Also equally unprovable. It also doesn't address the relevant question of why you hold that particular belief. You have placed every other possibility on the same level as god, so why do you believe in god? Why not evolution? Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? They are all equally plausible under your criteria.

The bottomline is, because your position is nothing more than an argument from ignorance, it has no value. At best it's just mental masterbation done for you own vicarious amusement. And while I note that you do seem to enjoy spewing all over the forum, there are places far better suited to such things on the internet. You're just making the floors sticky and leaving a pungent and distasteful mess on everyones shoes.


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Offline JeffPT

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #461 on: March 28, 2012, 03:31:00 PM »
A Chihuahua is not a midget Great Dane. In the same way that a human midget is not some kind of distinct human breed.
Try again.
 
This thread has gotten outta control.  What's your point?  Please, say more than simple questions, and act like "I gotcha!!" with every response.  How is evolution proven by using the above example????

Dog breeding is an excellent example of how evolution works.  The only difference between the processes is that human beings select the traits they want to breed for.  It's called 'artificial selection'.  Without human interference, it's called 'natural selection' and the traits that each individual possesses that help it survive are the ones that are 'bred' for, simply by the process of dying before they are old enough to reproduce and pass on the genetic material. 

It's very simple.  Imagine you had 100 golden retrievers out in cages in your back yard.  One day, you decide that in the future, all you want to keep are the dogs with the darkest coats.  In order to do that, what you might do is select 20 of the 100 dogs (10 male and 10 female) that had the darkest coats and breed them together.  This would produce offspring with the highest likelihood of darker coats.  Then you would breed only those with the dark coats again, and again, and again.  The other 80 dogs, however, have bright coats, so you do not choose to breed them before they eventually die.  This is evolution in action.  Small steps give you darker and darker coats.  The interesting thing is that you can do that with just about every characteristic a dog possesses.  Long nose, short legs, fetching capability, etc.  It's all been done, little by little.  The process by which that happens is called evolution via artificial selection. 

In natural selection, the process is the same, however instead of a human being selecting for dark coats, nature will decide whether or not a dark coat is advantageous simply by whether or not a dark coat gives the individual a survival advantage in their environment over others of its kind.  This is really not that hard a concept.  If the dog lives in the arctic versus the jungle, just imagine what advantages or disadvantages a dark coat might give.  Would it be harder to see?  Better insulation against the cold?  There are lots of possibilities. 

Honestly, I would like to know exactly where in that process the whole thing breaks down for you.  Don't keep looking at the big picture and saying 'oh, it can never happen, it can never explain everything!'.  That is an EMOTIONAL response.  Use your brain for a minute.  What part of that process do you not think is accurate?  Step by step.  Which one? 

Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline rockv12

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #462 on: March 28, 2012, 03:33:56 PM »

Liar. Your questions are neither difficult nor unanswered. What you're asking has been addressed several times. You want to know how every species on the planet evolved? Devote your life to biology and you will. You want proof of evolution? Read our posts.


Where did we come from?  How did the Big Bang begin?  That was answered?  Refer me to the answer or you can tell me in your own words.  Where and who answered how a hummingbird evolved?  If so, I apologize, but I didn't know we knew the answer to that....again, where is the answer?  It's ok if you don't know, but I want you to think about why we don't know.  WHY is it difficult to see the evidence in their evolution?  Howcome we can't get a good answer to some of these questions?  Look, I know you don't know how the hummingbird evolved....right?  Look online...nobody knows.  But WHY?  I think it's because the hummingbird is so freakin' advanced in structure and design, that NOBODY can fathom how evolution created such a creature.  Along with millions of other examples.  Evolution likes to look at monkeys and humans....  So can you tell me a rational idea for how the hummingbird evolved or how matter just poofed into existence to blow up?

Offline velkyn

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Re: The Probability of the Big Bang
« Reply #463 on: March 28, 2012, 03:39:10 PM »
Nobody has educated me on anything...everytime I ask a difficult question, I get "Well, we can't understand every little thing about evolution, but we know the basics and that's enough for now".  ZERO education was received on how a hummingbird evolved or why.  Now if you want to accuse me of not putting effort into my posts, I suggest you do some effort and answer some of the "tougher" questions.  Where did we come from?  How did we get here?  You can't start in the middle of the story with evolution.  You have to answer the foundational question of "where did we come from?".  Nobody can do that, therefore evolution is missing a major little part to it's shoddy story. So where do you want to start?  The Big Bang/beginning of time...OR the hummingbird?  These are questions that should be answered if you want to prove that there is NO God, nor evidence for a God.

way to lie, move the goal posts, demonstate your willful ignorance, etc, rockv.   You have been asked for evidence for your god and have not provided any at all.  We have shown you evidence that evolutionary theory works and how it works.  It works for hummingbirds too.    *We* got here by evolution.  All of the evidence supports the BBT and nothing supports your religious myths. Nothing, not one scrap of evidence that you can show.   You can't even show your god exists and that some other god *didn't* create the universe.

At best you can say we don't know everything, and that gap shrinks every day.  Your poor little god, once the ruler of the universe, able to magic up anything and now poor thing has to fit inside of the cracks that creationists are desperate to find.  You need to invent lies to attack the science you refuse to understand.  Heck, you need to grudgingly acept the sciecence you do accept and you'd be quite a lovely heretic to Christians a hundred years ago or even other Christians now.   All so sadly contradicting each other and making me laugh at your antics that show that youre religion is just as ridiculous as the Greeks or the Norse.  And your own actions have made me sure that there is nohting special about Christianity at all. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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