Author Topic: How do you feel about adoption?  (Read 1157 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rickymooston

How do you feel about adoption?
« on: March 07, 2012, 03:39:34 AM »
My aunt adopted her youngest son. She has 3 biological children.

She didn't disclose to us that he was adopted and as a kid, I had no idea. I've since her, her approach of assimilating him into the family "totally" isn't what is recommended today.

I've also since heard that some adoptive families emotionally reject the child they adopt and that this happens with about equal frequency as mother's reacting negatively to their birth children. It is further true that some families who adopt abuse their children. All these evils occur despite the fact that adoptive families are screened by adoption agencies. Because of this, one person I know, considers it immoral to give away a child for adoption; i.e., she would rather have an abortion. Many other people on the otherhand, go the other way.

Many people reunite with their birth mothers/fathers afterwards.

Some consider the biological parents their "real" parents and others consider the adoptive families their "real" parents.

What about cross-racial adoption? Some people get angry about this happening whereas other people get angry about this not happening. "Oh, if the white babies will be adopted" vs "how dare they still OUR children".

I was unaware how contraversial and emotional the subject can be for some people. I was brought up to think of it as a positive thing. I know many people who have been adopted into good families or have provided a good home for an adopted kid.

I've also met people who were abused or neglected in favor of biological children.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline freakygin

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
  • Darwins +8/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2012, 04:06:08 AM »
My sister was adopted because my mother wants a daughter.
And we really loved her at first, we really care about her, since she is the only girl in the family.
But in my country, there is an old saying "You can't fight the blood".
Apparently that's true.
Since her biological father is a good for nothing scum and a thief and the mother are just a simple house maid.
Then, there's a time when that genetic really kicks in.
She still tends to steal things from our house.
How did i know? Because i didn't do it.
Suddenly she had enough money to buy everything.
We didn't told her she's adopted because we really love and care about her back then.
As she's getting older, the traits really come to surface.
She act like a whore,
Skip school, getting kicked out from school twice.
Plus she often lost her cellphone (Which we suspect are actually sold or she give it to some guy)
Now she's running away from home with some guy for quite a while now.
And quite frankly, i'm glad she didn't come back and told my mother "This is your grandchildren"
That would give my mom a heart attack. And i might have to kill her on the spot.

If the environment where she grew up really matter, she's supposed to be just like me or my brother. Coz we treat each other equally.
We provide her with everything she needs.
Now i'm sure it has nothing to do with environment.
It's the genetic traits.

So, my point is, if you really want to adopt.
Just make sure the biological parents are "Good"
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 04:13:35 AM by freakygin »
If you argue correctly, you're never wrong..

Offline One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11045
  • Darwins +286/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2012, 04:14:09 AM »
It's a good thing if done properly.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline rickymooston

Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2012, 04:22:55 AM »

How old is she?

Does she have ADHD? Some of the behavior you are describing sounds a bit like some forms of that. (For the record, I have ADHD but I don't steal lol. Discussing ADHD is another thread in itself ...)

"Whore" and "thief" are pretty strong words of course. I dislike the term "whore". I think, people's sexuality is their own business. Male or female, if you like sex a lot and have it consentually, its not my business to put you down.

One of my friends was a rape victim and put her kid up for adoption. That friend comes from a family of alcoholics and is autistic. Anyway, I'm sad to say, her daughter is now an alcoholic and following in the family mold.

For the record, the rape victim is not an alcoholic and is one of two people in her family who isn't.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline freakygin

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
  • Darwins +8/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2012, 04:29:17 AM »
Ah... Forgive me for using such strong words.
It's because English is not my native language.
So, my vocabulary skills are mostly from those hollywood movie. (Self learning)

She's 23 years old.

Nope, she don't have ADHD (It's the Attention Disorder thing right?)

Well, can you say "it's not my business" when it comes to your daughter?


« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 04:47:15 AM by freakygin »
If you argue correctly, you're never wrong..

Offline rickymooston

Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2012, 05:06:51 AM »
Nope, she don't have ADHD (It's the Attention Disorder thing right?)

Yes.

Quote
Well, can you say "it's not my business" when it comes to your daughter?

Obviously, you can try to give her advice about being safe etc. At that age, said advice will likely be ignored unless its solicited.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline rickymooston

Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2012, 08:18:50 AM »
Note the above is my personal opinion about sexuakity. Nobody said I`m an authority outside my own mind ...

I liked your honest expression of your experiences.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2012, 12:52:13 PM »
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline Mr. Blackwell

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2692
  • Darwins +77/-23
  • Gender: Male
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2012, 12:59:28 PM »
I think it's ironic that when the government sells kids it's okay...but let me or you try it and see what happens  &)
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

Online wright

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1888
  • Darwins +80/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • "Sleep like a log, snore like a chainsaw."
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2012, 01:30:47 PM »
My experience with adoption is mostly through my brother-in-law (my sister's husband). A very sweet, gentle guy. He was conceived in an adulterous affair; the husband of his birth-mother convinced her to give Charles up for adoption.

I never met her, but I had the pleasure of knowing his adoptive mother for the last three years or so of her life, as well as her daughter (his adoptive sister). From what I saw, they were a loving, close family for all his growing up; he and his sister are still good friends. He went on to marry and father two daughters (one with two girls of her own now) before meeting and marrying my sister. He's a loving and attentive father to my nephew (conceived via a sperm bank).

I guess he was one of the more fortunate ones, though I've never asked him about his experiences prior to being adopted. A few years ago he sought out his birth-mother; she was very happy and wanted him to re-connect with his "real" family. He told her that he already had a family; that he was glad to meet her, but didn't want to get closer.

My sister was adopted because my mother wants a daughter.
And we really loved her at first, we really care about her, since she is the only girl in the family.
But in my country, there is an old saying "You can't fight the blood".
Apparently that's true.

Bolds mine. One of my mom's neighbors had several adopted children; she and her husband went through a similar experience with one of their girls. I really hate those kinds of expressions, though. Too often it's used to justify racism and oppression. I guess as we get an increased understanding of the genetic basis for behavior, we may get an answer to "nature vs. nurture". Or at least a closer definition of both terms.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline Traveler

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2056
  • Darwins +142/-2
  • Gender: Female
  • no god required
    • I am a Forum Guide
    • Gryffin Designs
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2012, 02:52:11 PM »
Three of my cousins are adopted. All are wonderful people. Two of them eventually searched out their birth mothers, initially for medical history, and both birth mothers are now accepted as a part of the family. My aunt (the adoptive mother) is still considered their mom. The third child hasn't searched, and seems to have no interest in doing so.

I worry about the people who say anyone who wants to abort should put their kids up for adoption, because in some of those cases the pregnant woman may have various difficulties that can lead to challenges in their children. For instance, my mother was an occupational therapist, working with disabled children. Many, many of the children she worked with were adopted children with fetal alcohol syndrome, or born with drug addictions. I have NO clue what the percentages are, but there seemed to be a fair number, and fetal exposure to toxins can override basic genetics, or upbringing.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline Betelnut

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • Darwins +13/-3
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2012, 08:15:22 PM »
I have an adopted daughter who is just about to turn six.  Obviously, I have a very positive view of adoption.  It is a good solution to bad situations.

I have no fear about "bad blood" (hoo boy, what an archaic way of thinking) just about my own ability to parent which would also be a concern if my daughter were my biological child.

Offline rickymooston

Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2012, 09:23:42 PM »
I have an adopted daughter who is just about to turn six.  Obviously, I have a very positive view of adoption.  It is a good solution to bad situations.

I have no fear about "bad blood" (hoo boy, what an archaic way of thinking) just about my own ability to parent which would also be a concern if my daughter were my biological child.

If you are afraid you might. E a bad parant, itvis likely you will be a good one. Caring is half the battle.

Congrats.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Betelnut

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • Darwins +13/-3
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2012, 08:48:11 AM »
I have an adopted daughter who is just about to turn six.  Obviously, I have a very positive view of adoption.  It is a good solution to bad situations.

I have no fear about "bad blood" (hoo boy, what an archaic way of thinking) just about my own ability to parent which would also be a concern if my daughter were my biological child.

If you are afraid you might. E a bad parant, itvis likely you will be a good one. Caring is half the battle.

Congrats.

Thanks.

As for Freakygin's sad little story, I suspect that not being told that you're adopted by your family who happens to know all the back story of your biological family (who obviously are looked down upon by your adoptive family) would really do a number on you.  Why not act out if that is only what is expected?  Very sad but not a genetic issue at all. 

Offline Traveler

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2056
  • Darwins +142/-2
  • Gender: Female
  • no god required
    • I am a Forum Guide
    • Gryffin Designs
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2012, 09:44:19 AM »
...not being told that you're adopted...

I forgot to mention this part ... I think its absolutely essential that children know they're adopted. My cousins all knew when they were very, very young, and it was simply another fact about their existence. People who find out as adults can feel an incredible sense of betrayal that their past was kept from them. Honestly is what its all about, and I'm really pleased that the old rules about "closed adoptions" are falling by the wayside.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline Betelnut

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • Darwins +13/-3
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2012, 11:16:39 AM »
...not being told that you're adopted...

I forgot to mention this part ... I think its absolutely essential that children know they're adopted. My cousins all knew when they were very, very young, and it was simply another fact about their existence. People who find out as adults can feel an incredible sense of betrayal that their past was kept from them. Honestly is what its all about, and I'm really pleased that the old rules about "closed adoptions" are falling by the wayside.

Me too.  It is very important to be honest with kids--at least about the big stuff.  I maintain my right to lie about where the chocolate is.

Offline freakygin

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
  • Darwins +8/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2012, 01:22:05 PM »

As for Freakygin's sad little story, I suspect that not being told that you're adopted by your family who happens to know all the back story of your biological family (who obviously are looked down upon by your adoptive family) would really do a number on you.  Why not act out if that is only what is expected?  Very sad but not a genetic issue at all.

We're positive it's the genetic issue.
I forgot to mention, her biological parents has 4 children (Yes, the biological parents gave their children away willingly, we know them quite well)
So, my family are gathered and we agreed to adopt them all.
1. Older sister (adopted by my distant relative)
2 & 3. Her and her twin brother (She's adopted by my family and her twin adopted by my aunt in another state)
4. Her little brother (Adopted by my other family)

Now, every children are separated, raised by different family, different environtment, different brother and sister, house rules, Everything is different.
But surprisingly, they all have the same traits.
They all act the same (Yes, we all have confirmed that, because their adoptive are still my relatives)
The older sister act exactly the same like her while they never met each other.
Her twin brother apparently like to steal, get drunk and grope the nuns at his school.
Her little brother are pretty much the same.
They never met each other.

Well, i know maybe it's hard to believe.
I thought so too at first.
We even didn't want to believe it.
But then again, i just want to share this True Story.

Whether u believe it or not, agree or not.
It's really up to u. I never said adopting was bad.
Good Luck.
If you argue correctly, you're never wrong..

Online wright

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1888
  • Darwins +80/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • "Sleep like a log, snore like a chainsaw."
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2012, 02:17:35 PM »
Well, i know maybe it's hard to believe.
I thought so too at first.
We even didn't want to believe it.
But then again, i just want to share this True Story.

Whether u believe it or not, agree or not.
It's really up to u. I never said adopting was bad.
Good Luck.

It's true that you never said there was anything wrong with adoption, gin. And I doubt anyone would argue that asocial behavior never has a genetic basis, just as social behavior does. It certainly sounds like there's some common factor for your adoptive relatives' problems; how relevant genetics would be to that would take careful study.

In the US, such topics are a hot-button issue because of our sad history of racism, not to mention a decades-long flirtation with eugenics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States) before WW2. More recently there was the Bell Curve controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve).

Thanks for sharing your story. I'm sorry for your adoptive relatives; sorrier for their guardians.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline Quesi

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1986
  • Darwins +371/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2012, 03:22:54 PM »
I am a middle aged, single, first time adoptive mom.  My beautiful, precocious, amazing little girl is 5 years old, and she is the joy of my life. 

I am always amazed to watch the nature vs nurture reality as it plays out in my life on a daily basis.  She is athletic, which I am not.  She is unusually focused for her age.  And she has an innate mechanical/spatial sense that I have never had.  At 2 ½ she was putting together 48 piece puzzles, that were a challenge to me.  All that is her genes, not my influence.

But like me, she loves books and art and the night sky.  She can spend hours in museums, and she is such a good traveler, who goes with the flow when flights get canceled and plans need to be revamped.  She’s an urban kid who loves the bustle of city life, but who feels a deep connection to animals and plants and nature.  She struggles over ethical issues.  Last week, during a playdate, a friend gave her a blue candy that the little friend had stolen from her mom’s secret stash.  The friend made my daughter promise not to tell.  My sweet girl knows that a promise is important, and you don’t break a promise.  When I asked her why her tongue was blue, she had a real breakdown.  A tantrum. For almost two hours.  It was a dilemma.  Lie to mom, or break a promise to a friend.  Finally, she came clean, and we talked about the issue a lot.  She overthinks stuff.  She has a strong emotional reaction to ethical dilemmas.  Just like me. 

We are a multiracial family, and in our neighborhood, her skin color is more common than mine.  That is really important to me.  She understands the circumstances of her birth, in an age appropriate way.  I will always be honest with her, and answer any questions that she has truthfully.  She knows that she lived with a wonderful foster family for the first 13 months of her life, and she knows that I always wanted a little girl, and that is why I adopted her, and that I believe I am very very lucky to be her mommy.

Like many adopted children, especially kids who were not adopted as infants, she has issues.  She does not have serious abandonment concerns, which are common among adopted kids.  But I have always been vigilant on that issue.  Because she was in an excellent foster care situation (luck of the draw) she does not suffer from any of the issues that children who did not receive enough stimulation as infants often suffer from, such as sensory integration disorder. Some kids were exposed to alcohol or drugs or poor nutrition in vitro, or abuse or neglect after birth, and have physical or psychological problems that need to be proactively addressed by parents and medical professionals.   Among the most serious issues is RAD, reactive attachment disorder, which requires serious interventions.  As a prospective adoptive parent, I educated my self, and was prepared to face a host of issues.  No parent should be considering adoption without considering potential issues which their family may face.  My daughter’s problems surface at night.  She has always had nightmares and night terrors and confused awakenings and on rare occasions, sleep walking.  She was almost 4 when she started sleeping through the night more often than not.  Now, at 5, she probably sleeps through 5 or 6 nights a week, and I am thrilled with her progress. 

I am very active in various adoptive parent networks, and she knows lots of other kids who were adopted.  Here in NYC, they are mostly progressive families, with quite a few wonderful two-dad families.

But my adoption journey led me into a world that I did not know existed.  A LOT of adoptive families are fundamentalist Christians.  Lots of full-quiver families.  Lots of homeschoolers.  They are especially interested in international adoption, and the opportunity to save little souls pre-rapture.  Many of them do not prepare themselves for adoption, and are not aware of some of the special needs that adopted kids may face.  Some believe that hugs and prayer will cure all, while others are adherents to the “spare the rod, spoil the child” mentality.   I often think of the families who I have met along this journey, and I honestly fear for many of these kids.  There have been some highly publicized stories about adopted kids dying in the care of the people who were supposed to protect and care for them.  But there are certainly a lot of kids out there who are not getting the loving, informed, proactive families that they deserve. 


These good Christians beat one child to death. 
 

These good Christians just didn’t like their kids very much, and didn’t feed them and left them outside in the cold like dogs. 


Adoption can be a wonderful thing.  It is certainly a life-altering event for everyone involved.  But there is a subset of the adoptive parent community who really scare me, and I fear for the kids who need and deserve love and support, but get something else. 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 03:33:01 PM by Quesi »

Offline rickymooston

Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2012, 04:39:19 PM »
I gather spanking has been "recently" shown not to be the most effective way to raise kids but there is a difference between "responsible spanking" and child abuse. Not having read the book but simply seeing the interview of Mr Pearl, I think we should be fair here. The author of the book, Mr Pearl, was discussing giving his kid, "say 15 licks" and that they never gave a mark on their kids. The psychotic family in question, were beating their kid for "7 continous hours".

The fundamentalist couple is blaming these people but are they to blame?


Quote
We are a multiracial family, and in our neighborhood, her skin color is more common than mine.  That is really important to me.  She understands the circumstances of her birth, in an age appropriate way.  I will always be honest with her, and answer any questions that she has truthfully.  She knows that she lived with a wonderful foster family for the first 13 months of her life, and she knows that I always wanted a little girl, and that is why I adopted her, and that I believe I am very very lucky to be her mommy.

I have a concern here. Should she be taught to identify too much with her race or to understand her self as a human and herself in terms of her own achievements. That is not necessarily to perceive, "yes I am black" but not to be limited by race and not to be limited to only black (if she is black) role models either.

A very well known black physicist, Neil Degrasse, claims that Newton was his inspiration.

My "niece", is Vietnamese and both her parents are Vietnamese. Her friends are "everything". White, Yellow, black and whatever.

Here in Canada, i was fortunate to be raised in a mixed race environement with a minimun of "polarization".

Anyway, beware of the need for balance.  :-X
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Betelnut

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • Darwins +13/-3
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2012, 05:52:06 PM »
Quesi--we share a lot of characteristics!  Single, middle-aged women of 5 year-olds!  Also, multi-racial here.  My daughter is from Guatemala, me, white-bread.  I adopted my daughter when I was 45.

Offline Quesi

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1986
  • Darwins +371/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2012, 06:00:53 PM »
Quesi--we share a lot of characteristics!  Single, middle-aged women of 5 year-olds!  Also, multi-racial here.  My daughter is from Guatemala, me, white-bread.  I adopted my daughter when I was 45.

Oh my!  We most certainly do!  My daughter is Guatemalan as well.  Mayan Mam, born in Mixco, but with origins in the highlands.  I wonder if our paths have crossed in this adoption world!  I fostered her in Antigua during the fall and winter of 2007. 

Ricky, I'm composing a long, rambling piece on race in response to your post, complete with Neil DeGrasse Tyson videos.  But bathtime and dinner are providing too many interruptions.  I'll post soon. 

Offline Betelnut

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • Darwins +13/-3
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2012, 06:04:10 PM »
Quesi--we share a lot of characteristics!  Single, middle-aged women of 5 year-olds!  Also, multi-racial here.  My daughter is from Guatemala, me, white-bread.  I adopted my daughter when I was 45.

Oh my!  We most certainly do!  My daughter is Guatemalan as well.  Mayan Mam, born in Mixco, but with origins in the highlands.  I wonder if our paths have crossed in this adoption world!  I fostered her in Antigua during the fall and winter of 2007. 

Ricky, I'm composing a long, rambling piece on race in response to your post, complete with Neil DeGrasse Tyson videos.  But bathtime and dinner are providing too many interruptions.  I'll post soon.

Ha!  I brought my daughter home in October of 2007 so we indeed were working toward the same goal at the same time!  Small world.

Offline Quesi

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1986
  • Darwins +371/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2012, 06:08:46 PM »
Quesi--we share a lot of characteristics!  Single, middle-aged women of 5 year-olds!  Also, multi-racial here.  My daughter is from Guatemala, me, white-bread.  I adopted my daughter when I was 45.

Oh my!  We most certainly do!  My daughter is Guatemalan as well.  Mayan Mam, born in Mixco, but with origins in the highlands.  I wonder if our paths have crossed in this adoption world!  I fostered her in Antigua during the fall and winter of 2007. 

Ricky, I'm composing a long, rambling piece on race in response to your post, complete with Neil DeGrasse Tyson videos.  But bathtime and dinner are providing too many interruptions.  I'll post soon.

Ha!  I brought my daughter home in October of 2007 so we indeed were working toward the same goal at the same time!  Small world.

Wow!  I was on lockdown at the Guatemala City Marriott during the end of October/early November because of the anticipated election violence.  That is actually the time I met the scariest quiver-full families!  We might have been at the same place at the same time!  And maybe even scared by the same people!

Offline Betelnut

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • Darwins +13/-3
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2012, 06:16:16 PM »
Quesi--we share a lot of characteristics!  Single, middle-aged women of 5 year-olds!  Also, multi-racial here.  My daughter is from Guatemala, me, white-bread.  I adopted my daughter when I was 45.

Oh my!  We most certainly do!  My daughter is Guatemalan as well.  Mayan Mam, born in Mixco, but with origins in the highlands.  I wonder if our paths have crossed in this adoption world!  I fostered her in Antigua during the fall and winter of 2007. 

Ricky, I'm composing a long, rambling piece on race in response to your post, complete with Neil DeGrasse Tyson videos.  But bathtime and dinner are providing too many interruptions.  I'll post soon.

Ha!  I brought my daughter home in October of 2007 so we indeed were working toward the same goal at the same time!  Small world.

Wow!  I was on lockdown at the Guatemala City Marriott during the end of October/early November because of the anticipated election violence.  That is actually the time I met the scariest quiver-full families!  We might have been at the same place at the same time!  And maybe even scared by the same people!

Oh my goodness!  I think I must have missed all that by the skin of my teeth.  Our "gotcha" day was October 14th and we flew home on the 17th (as I recall) so luckily no scary lock-downs for us.  I was so stressed out by that point that I think I would have had a nervous breakdown if that had happened.

Offline Quesi

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1986
  • Darwins +371/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2012, 06:52:19 PM »
Betelnut!  This is so surreal.  I missed you by a week in October of 2007!

Ricky -I think that many white people think that race is irrelevant.  But I’ve rarely met a person of color who thought that race was irrelevant. 

I’m a huge Neil DeGrasse Tyson fan, and although he certainly has drawn on a wide range of role models, I think it is pretty clear that racial identity has always been a strong part of his identity. 

I’m sorry that this is such a long piece, but I think it is relevant as a response.  Especially as he tells the story of his career in the middle/end of video. 



My beautiful daughter is Mayan Mam, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mam_people perhaps with a small bit of Garifuna ancestry.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garifuna_people She was born in Guatemala.  I was THRILLED when one of her preschool teachers self-identified as Mayan.  I think that she will find very few Native American role models in her life, and even fewer who are Mayan. 

I consciously used the words “skin color” rather than race.  I live in an exceptionally diverse community that does have a significant latino population, but they run the gamut racially, including white skinned latinos, black skinned latinos, some latinos with indigenous ancestry, and mostly folks with a mix of ancestries.  But we have also have a huge South Asian population, and she is often assumed to be Banglaeshi, because most of the folks from Bangladesh have her skin color, and surprisingly similar features.   But many latinos start talking to her in Spanish.  She understands, but answers in English.  We used to speak Spanish at home, but now we don’t.  But I’ve gotten her into a wonderful school, and she is taking Spanish in kindergarten.  She will start taking Mandarin in 4th grade, and Arabic in 6th grade.  Her friends (and my friends) represent a wide range of races and ethnicities.    So yeah, she is getting exposed to a great deal of diversity. 

So she knows that she is an indigenous person.  She knows that she is Mayan Mam.  She knows that she is Guatemalan, and she knows that she is latina.  When she hears someone self-identifying as indigenous or Native American, or referring to someone else who is indigenous or Native American, she perks up and says with pride “I’m an indigenous person!” 

Her racial identity is complex.  There will be a time in her life, I suspect, when the majority of people in immediate proximately to her will not share her skin color. And she will, for most of her life, be the only indigenous person in the room.  In terms of possible Garifuna ancestry, I’ve thought about doing DNA tests, so that if she is a member of a such a small group of people, she can, if she chooses to, identify with that group as well. 

As she grows, she can choose to self-identify as she likes.  Mayan, indigenous, Guatemalan, Latina, New Yorker.  One of a handful of Garifuna people, if she so choses.  She will be asked her race/ethnicity/where are you from questions frequently.  Certainly if she continues to live in the Northeast US, where the question is considered part of getting to know someone.  (I know in other parts of the world, or even on the western coast of the US, that is considered a rude question.  Here it is not.)  I want to ensure that she has the tools to answer the question with ease and confidence and pride.  However she chooses to answer. 

Offline atheola

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1300
  • Darwins +28/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • Hospitals suck past an hour.
Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2012, 06:55:18 PM »
It's often a cultural thing..my oldest brother married a beatifhl Thai farm girl many years back and she couldn't carry children so they adopted 2 thai kids in California. Being from that old Thai traditional type family she, my sisterin law treated the boy like a prince and the girl like a peasant farm girl. Turns out she's doing great, married with 3 kids..he still lives at home with mommy almost 40. Go figure.
I used to think I was adopted, but my dad told me if I wasn't his son he wouldn't let me in his house. That settled that. :P



e if I wasn't his he wouldn't let
You better believe it's not butter or you'll burn in hell forever and EVER!
Get on your knees right now and thank GOD for not being real!

Offline rickymooston

Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2012, 12:01:14 AM »
Quesi--we share a lot of characteristics!  Single, middle-aged women of 5 year-olds!  Also, multi-racial here.  My daughter is from Guatemala, me, white-bread.  I adopted my daughter when I was 45.

Oh my!  We most certainly do!  My daughter is Guatemalan as well.  Mayan Mam, born in Mixco, but with origins in the highlands.  I wonder if our paths have crossed in this adoption world!  I fostered her in Antigua during the fall and winter of 2007. 

Ricky, I'm composing a long, rambling piece on race in response to your post, complete with Neil DeGrasse Tyson videos.  But bathtime and dinner are providing too many interruptions.  I'll post soon.

Ha, i probsbly deserved that.

It's often a cultural thing..my oldest brother married a beatifhl Thai farm girl many years back and she couldn't carry children so they adopted 2 thai kids in California. Being from that old Thai traditional type family she, my sisterin law treated the boy like a prince and the girl like a peasant farm girl. Turns out she's doing great, married with 3 kids..he still lives at home with mommy almost 40. Go figure.
I used to think I was adopted, but my dad told me if I wasn't his son he wouldn't let me in his house. That settled that. :P



e if I wasn't his he wouldn't let

Spoiling a kid isnt good.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline rickymooston

Re: How do you feel about adoption?
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2012, 12:32:26 AM »
Quesi, i see.

My concern was, whites have a tendency to over emphasize race. This doesnt mean race isnt a facyor in ones life or that its not hardvto deal with sometimes

Its awesome she is in a diverse environment and she hascsome hapoy curiousity about her roots.

The mayans produced great scientists in the past.

All the same, if she was white, the first thing a parent may teach ber would be not to limit berself

Role models of all walks of life have shown an ability to be confident and realize their dreams. Her power
To do this is the most important thing she will learn. And of course you will be her role model in a thousand ways.

I wish i knew more indian tole models outside hockey.
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.