Author Topic: Kony 2012  (Read 1302 times)

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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2012, 08:45:00 PM »
To be blunt and honest, as I have tried to be so far, this seems like a campaign to sell a war.

As a US citizen, I have gotten used to these things...they go back before 1990 even, but at that point they hit overdrive. 

It doesn't seem like much of an 'expirement.' It seems like it is propaganda designed to incite support of another US military operation.

Been there, done that.

Your paranoia is quite impressive....witness true mastery of your mind





edit

DAMMIT! I know saw a "remove" button just the other day! flapdoodle64, I don't mean to make fun of you...I understand completely your reluctance to trust our government. I just saw this a few minutes ago on facebook and immediately thought of this thread. It made me laugh, but not at you. I wanted to share it because it clearly shows that you are not alone in your skepticism.

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« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 09:04:56 PM by jaybwell32 »
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Offline atheola

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2012, 09:16:45 PM »
Believe NOTHING..REPEAT..NOTHING the TV talking heads say...even if it's the fuckers shoe size.
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Offline Death over Life

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2012, 10:06:31 PM »
To be blunt and honest, as I have tried to be so far, this seems like a campaign to sell a war.

As a US citizen, I have gotten used to these things...they go back before 1990 even, but at that point they hit overdrive. 

It doesn't seem like much of an 'expirement.' It seems like it is propaganda designed to incite support of another US military operation.

Been there, done that.

There's your problem.  You don't understand this particular issue.  This isn't a government at fault.  This is a sociopath that is too powerful for the weak Uganda government to stop.

In other matters, I still stand by my statement that even stepping into governments that oppress their people is the right thing to do.  We had to stop Hitler, Stalin, etc.  People like that must be stopped.  And if that means I have to buy a war, so be it.  In fact, it's the only war in which I would willingly fight.  I won't fight for oil.  But I'll shed blood to prevent genocide and the kind of wicked oppression we see in countries like Uganda...you betcha.


 I still stand by my statement that even stepping into governments that oppress their people is the right thing to do.  We had to stop Hitler, Stalin, etc.  People like that must be stopped.  And if that means I have to buy a war, so be it.  In fact, it's the only war in which I would willingly fight.  I won't fight for oil.  But I'll shed blood to prevent genocide and the kind of wicked oppression we see in countries like Uganda...you betcha.

I don't claim to understand the issue fully.

But I understand that 'stopping' sociopaths with men and guns is usually more problematic than the planners acknowlege, and usually it's camel's nose under the tent...usually it leads to activities more prolonged and exgtensive than originally discussed. 

FYI, the USA didn't stop Stalin.  We let him do his purges.  It wasn't right, but we might have blown up the world if we'd have taken him head on. 

It's sexy and fun get a hard-on for a crazy general or other bad guy. 

It's not as easy to try to keep control of a military operation once you send down 'advisors' to whack him.

Let us not forget as well, that the US financially helped out another great evil named Pol Pot and the Khmer Rogue. The Khmer even got to be a part of the United Nations for quite a while, despite them killing almost 25% of the entire Cambodian Population.

All these wars we are about to engage in? The USA created them to begin with. It was all due to the fear of Communism spreading throughout the world. It was the fear that the 1% don’t get to stay the 1% anymore.

In fact, we were actually allies with Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden at one point in time, with what they were doing that made us hate them so much.

The point being, if the US gets involved, since we have many wannabe theocrats here, and a possible theocrat for President 8 months from now, how do we for sure know that the US getting involved in Uganda’s Business isn’t going to be helping Kony in the end instead of the Ugandan government?

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2012, 10:08:01 PM »
I don't know if anybody has noticed, April 20th is Hitler's birthday, not sure if that was done on purpose, but it'd be pretty awesome to giving a big fuck you to a deranged fuck head during another deranged fuck head's birthday.

However, what I really hope not to happen is for them to be sold weapons and then these weapons to be used against some other groups of innocents, as has happened before. Whilst Hitler and Stalin were stopped and we've had a few evil dictators killed over the last decade, but also we also armed the middle east, we allied with Gaddafi and put Saddam Hussein into power. I would hate to see these kind of mistakes ever being made again and our governments should be mindful of this.

Though, of course the intervention is through the use of advisers and the cause is to remove one man and that's something I can support. If peace can be made, then awesome and awesome it'd be proof of how an important cause can be deliver through the internet age. Lets hope something good comes out of this.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2012, 01:11:42 AM »
I don't know if anybody has noticed, April 20th is Hitler's birthday

It's also a great day to get high                   ON WEED!

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Offline inveni0

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2012, 07:48:14 AM »
To be blunt and honest, as I have tried to be so far, this seems like a campaign to sell a war.

As a US citizen, I have gotten used to these things...they go back before 1990 even, but at that point they hit overdrive. 

It doesn't seem like much of an 'expirement.' It seems like it is propaganda designed to incite support of another US military operation.

Been there, done that.

There's your problem.  You don't understand this particular issue.  This isn't a government at fault.  This is a sociopath that is too powerful for the weak Uganda government to stop.

In other matters, I still stand by my statement that even stepping into governments that oppress their people is the right thing to do.  We had to stop Hitler, Stalin, etc.  People like that must be stopped.  And if that means I have to buy a war, so be it.  In fact, it's the only war in which I would willingly fight.  I won't fight for oil.  But I'll shed blood to prevent genocide and the kind of wicked oppression we see in countries like Uganda...you betcha.
funny there is NO OIL in North Korea...Do the western governments have an interest in stopping them from committing henious acts on its citizens?

And how bout the genocidal acts on the indigenous peoples of North America......you have no interest in stopping monsters do you?

This isn't making sense to me, so I may not be understanding you.  I'm not advocating that the US government has a history of doing the right thing.  It doesn't.  Slavery, restrictions on marriage, stealing land from rightful owners...the list goes on and on.  And it won't stop, either.  Every government will always be flawed to SOMEONE because everyone has different opinions on what is the "right" thing to do.

My comments about stepping in and helping the defenseless is made in terms of what humanity should do.  We are not animals.  We have evolved above that...but not to the point that not acting like animals is natural.  We have to make an active choice to be better.  To do better.  To do what's right.

And while we may never agree on "what's right", I think we CAN agree that torturing, raping, and murdering children is wrong.  And since it's wrong...since it's vile...help find a solution or gtfo.  Because pretending like what happens 5,000 miles away doesn't affect the humanity of the world is a horrible stance to take.  The world will never grow, never be stronger, if we can't stand against the horrors that attack humanity.
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Offline atheola

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2012, 08:38:18 AM »
You want to take us down the rabbit hole? Do you really want to end evil people everywhere? Mass murder for better or worse does serve a basic human need of keeping global population in check.
While there may be better ways of going about it via planned parenthood and so on lets face the simple fact that religions will almost object on so called moral grounds and since most of the global population believes in one religion or another where does that leave us? It leaves us with billions of breeders and ever exploding human population that needs culled from time to time.
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Offline atheola

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2012, 08:45:15 AM »
*hates android phones*

We don't want to feed everyone, but don't want to starve them. We want to protect them all from bad people, but don't want bad people doing things..
All that said, TLRA needs to go, but just whose job is it to get rid if them? Ours? Explain just why us and not Russia or China or even Argentina?
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2012, 10:20:27 AM »
To be blunt and honest, as I have tried to be so far, this seems like a campaign to sell a war.

As a US citizen, I have gotten used to these things...they go back before 1990 even, but at that point they hit overdrive. 

It doesn't seem like much of an 'expirement.' It seems like it is propaganda designed to incite support of another US military operation.

Been there, done that.

There's your problem.  You don't understand this particular issue.  This isn't a government at fault.  This is a sociopath that is too powerful for the weak Uganda government to stop.

In other matters, I still stand by my statement that even stepping into governments that oppress their people is the right thing to do.  We had to stop Hitler, Stalin, etc.  People like that must be stopped.  And if that means I have to buy a war, so be it.  In fact, it's the only war in which I would willingly fight.  I won't fight for oil.  But I'll shed blood to prevent genocide and the kind of wicked oppression we see in countries like Uganda...you betcha.
funny there is NO OIL in North Korea...Do the western governments have an interest in stopping them from committing henious acts on its citizens?

And how bout the genocidal acts on the indigenous peoples of North America......you have no interest in stopping monsters do you?

This isn't making sense to me, so I may not be understanding you.  I'm not advocating that the US government has a history of doing the right thing.  It doesn't.  Slavery, restrictions on marriage, stealing land from rightful owners...the list goes on and on.  And it won't stop, either.  Every government will always be flawed to SOMEONE because everyone has different opinions on what is the "right" thing to do.

My comments about stepping in and helping the defenseless is made in terms of what humanity should do.  We are not animals.  We have evolved above that...but not to the point that not acting like animals is natural.  We have to make an active choice to be better.  To do better.  To do what's right.

And while we may never agree on "what's right", I think we CAN agree that torturing, raping, and murdering children is wrong.  And since it's wrong...since it's vile...help find a solution or gtfo.  Because pretending like what happens 5,000 miles away doesn't affect the humanity of the world is a horrible stance to take.  The world will never grow, never be stronger, if we can't stand against the horrors that attack humanity.
Sorry I misunderstood you,the fact still remains there are many countries out there doing this shit. If there is no natural resource to protect,there is no interest.
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Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2012, 11:29:24 AM »
I remember when we whacked Saddam Hussein in either 2004, then there were no more problems in Iraq.

Then when we whacked Osama Bin Laden and threw his ass into the drink, poof, we pulled all the troops out of Afghanistan, sailors kissed nurses in Times Square, there were ticker-tape parades to welcome the troops coming home, and we gave all the troops GI Home Loans or sent to college free via the GI Bill, and everybody put a picket fence in their front yards and bought a new Studebaker because now the car makers could make new cars instead of having to make Jeeps, tanks, and B-17's.

Yeah, let's go whack Kony. 

He's evil.

Works every time.

Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2012, 12:51:50 PM »
Here's a good article on the subject Kony:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/kony-2012-wrapping-imperialiam-in-activism.html

This whole video thing just reeks of classic psy-ops stuff.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2012, 01:10:38 PM »
I have noticed in the past that both parties, Dems and Reps, love war.  They just use different methods of persuasion depending on who's in power at the time.

Dems. - Evil dictator is commiting genocide against his own people, we gotta do something!

Reps. - Evil dictator seeks nuclear capabilities and is threatening one of our friends! we gotta do something!

Carlyle Group - What? Oh... just ignore the men behind the curtain.
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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2012, 02:39:24 PM »
I saw this link elsewhere:
http://theeducatedfieldnegro.tumblr.com/post/18894846735/we-got-trouble

It does make me more sceptical about the issue. I would absolutely love for this dickhead to be removed and for there to be peace, the above articles makes me question the issue further, the US is acting as advisers, but I am a little concerned about where the funds are going and what the above blog post's claims makes me worried that the result my not be peace. In recent decades we've shown ourselves (the West) to be terrible at dealing with Africa and the middle east and I think we've already caused a lot of harm. I just love how we used to be allies with Saddam Hussain, Bin Laden and Colonel Gaddafi, heck we put Saddam into power. Then we wanted them all removed and Iraq was a disaster (not only that, but based on false pretences, it was never about getting Saddam), it was completely unjust and completely illegal and I don't think the fact they caught Saddam changes that. Seriously, I am of the opinion that George W Bush Jr and Tony Blair should have been executed for war crimes, or at least life imprisonment with a supply of easy-drop soap.

I suppose if it meant that children were no longer kidnapped and forced into being child soldiers and for no negative side effects to happen, then it would be worth it. Peace might not occur, but if it means fewer injustices towards the innocents, then it's a lot better than nothing.
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Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2012, 02:56:13 PM »
Well, the one article says the US has been in Uganda a couple years with 'Advisors' trying to whack this guy. 

I'd like to the think the USA is all about helping children.  But for 30 years, children's advocates and civilized nations have been asking the USA to join most other industrialized nations in signing treaties to stop the use of explosive land mines.  This is because the land mines are left underground after armies pull out, and it's usually civilans that are killed and maimed by them.  Of the civilian victims, most are children. 

So for 30 years, the USA, the most heavily armed and defended nation ever to exist, has been almost the only nation to reserve for itself the right to use land mines, a weapon which kills mostly innocent children.  N. Korea also retains the right to use land mines. 

So my thinking is, if the USA really gave a damn about child victims of war, they'd have abandoned the use of land mines long ago.

And don't get me started on the USA's use of phosphorus against personnel in the Battle of Faluja. 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 02:58:02 PM by flapdoodle64 »

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2012, 05:15:41 PM »
^^^QFT

The land mine thing is a scandal.  >:(

Children in Laos are still getting blown up by "unexploded ordnance", the mines and bombs the US dropped in the 1960's and '70's.:(

That was during the secret undeclared war in Laos and Cambodia, as opposed to the non-secret undeclared war againt the Vietnamese people. Lucky for us, the larger bombs lying around are clearly labeled USA. Remind me--why do people still think we will help them again?
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2012, 11:56:13 AM »
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Kony+2012+creator+Jason+Russell+detained+police/6315647/story.html

The guy who made the video was recently hocked up on goofballs, and masturbating in public.

Good rational Christian.
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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2012, 01:35:42 PM »
I've seen some of the stuff revealed about him, Charlie Brooker did quite a nice video on some of the problems with this guy and the same guy preaches evangelical Christianity and now it comes to no surprised to me that this whole campaign is completely manipulative because there's so many people who are exactly like him who do it, but for more 'Christian' causes. There was also me thinking, isn't masturbation a sin?

I find this a real shame, because the idea was nice, people around the world teaming up to say 'no' to the effed up shit in the world and really pushing their governments to get involved. But if it's going to fund the Ugandan military, particularly with weapons (a detail omitted from the video) then I am glad I did not jump on the bandwagon and buy one of those Kony 2012 packages. Given the percentage of funds that go to the people they actually claim to be helping, it's pretty poor.
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Offline Quesi

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2012, 05:35:26 PM »
I have a lot to say on this topic.  More than I am going to say in this thread.  But let me start. 

Deep breath.

Ok.  When I saw the mass response to this video, I was shocked.  Really?  People really don’t know about child soldiers?  People really don’t know about child prostitutes and the involuntary sex trade?  People don’t know about human trafficking?  This sort of stuff goes on all around the world, all the time.  The guy washing your dishes in the back of the really nice restaurant where you like to dine with your wife on Saturday night was a child soldier.  The middle aged woman who pushes a vacuum in your office building at night was the victim of the child sex trade decades ago.  The guy valet parking your car arrived in your town after his village was burned down in a land dispute over corporate control of resources.  And those are the folks who made it to the “first world.” 

A lot of the things that you touch are brought to you via atrocities that are best not to think about.   Children are working in fields to cut the sugar that you sprinkle in your morning cereal.  The innards of your cellphone is populated by metals mined by kids.  Armed conflicts are going on all over the world to control the land that those mines or fertile fields sit on.   

Invisible children?  Bullshit.  There are invisible people all around us who have stories to tell if you are interested. 

Uganda is a really miserable place.  Worse than most.  The Lord’s Resistance Army has committed unspeakable atrocities in it struggle against a government that has committed unspeakable atrocities.  Both sides of the conflict are Christian fundamentalist lunatics who make the Jesus Camp folks in the US look tame.  The Ugandan government just introduced legislation (again) that would make homosexuality an offence punishable by death.  http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/29/world/africa/ugandan-lawmakers-push-anti-homosexuality-bill-again.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=uganda&st=cse
This Kony lunatic wants to make the 10 Commandments the supreme law of the land, and has his soldiers draw crosses on their chests with oil to invoke the Lord’s protection. 

In the midst of this conflict, there are an estimated 2.2 million children between the ages of 7 and 14 engaged in hazardous labor, mostly in the mining industry or in agriculture.  According to this article http://childvoice.jinja.eu/en/child-labor-in-uganda 20% of children under 17 have lost at least one parent to either AIDS or violent conflict.  Oh, and there is a drought going on. 

If this is the first time you’ve heard of children being abducted and forced into the military, here are a few other examples in other parts of the world. 


Child soldiers in Peru.
http://americasquarterly.org/node/635

Children recruited to fight in civil war in El Salvador.
http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/human/child/survey/profile1.html

Mozambique
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/culture/articles/041220/20mozam_2.htm

Angola
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2491619.stm

Burma/Myanmar
http://www.hrw.org/news/2002/10/15/burma-worlds-highest-number-child-soldiers


I can link lots of resources on other types of human trafficking if anyone is interested.

The solution is not to invade every country that exploits and kills its people.  The solution is to address the root causes of human oppression.  Supporting international literacy efforts is a great start.  Also, educate yourself!  Targeting corporations that engage in exploitive practices is essential.  But it would be hard to identify many large corporations that do not engage in exploitive practices, directly or indirectly though the procurement of cheap raw materials.  And finally, name fundamentalist lunatics as fundamentalist lunatics.  Muslims get a lot of bad rap for the horrendous things that a small percentage of fundamentalist lunatics have been responsible for.  When you look at a country like Uganda, it is the Christian fundamentalist lunatics who are on both sides of the terror.  And oddly, it seems, on the side of the guy bringing the plight of the Ugandans into our living rooms.





Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2012, 12:00:45 AM »
http://www.iss.co.za/pubs/Monographs/No99/Chap2.pdf

That will get you up to speed on why Uganda cannot settle down.

What's not true about the Kony 12 video, is that it states that USA has not been interesting in getting rid of Kony. Even GWB was doing something, and his parents did not come from Kenya. I think the conspiracy theories can be seen in the light that the current president comes from a country next door to Uganda.

Strangely, the Kenyans think that Obama is the messiah, and will eventually deliver them from evil.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Kony 2012
« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2012, 06:23:45 PM »
QFT

How bad would your life have to get to leave your home and go to a strange, foreign country with just the things you can carry in your hands, and start over completely, possibly never seeing your children, parents and friends again? Pretty damn bad.
 
Be nice to legal immigrants, illegal immigrants and refugees--you won't be able to tell the difference and there really isn't any. They were all forced to leave home. They are not here (or in Canada, Australia or France or England) because it's such a paradise. They are here because home turned into hell and any place was a better place. They have already been through enough.

Smile and say "Hola", or "Assalamu alaykum." It won't cost you one cent.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.