Author Topic: When is the return of Christ?  (Read 8075 times)

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Offline ungod

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #58 on: March 12, 2012, 05:23:57 AM »

(I'll be dead by then, so I know I won't be impregnating any christian women in 2028. But I can't vouch for the rest of you. Be careful out there.)

You are forgetting that God created everything, including the loophole. Just donate to a sperm bank, and you CAN impregnate in 2028!  :police:

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Offline ungod

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #59 on: March 12, 2012, 07:53:29 AM »
"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15 NIV)
If the Bible is to be useful and understood, it needs to be correctly handled.

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14 NIV)
None who have not the Spirit of God abiding in them will be able to understand or even accept the things written in the Bible. It matters not that you were a minister because if you are no longer a Christian then you do not have the Spirit of God and you probably never did. If you had you would have known the truth and not fallen away. You sound like you have a great knowledge, if only you would accept God and Jesus and then you would understand.

Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

"What good fortune for those in power that people do not think." - Hitler

Offline ungod

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2012, 08:28:12 AM »
earthquakes,Tsunamis,tornadoes,hurricanes........flooding.....death.....yup all the signs are there,NOW where the fuck is JESUS?

He's sitting in that big comfy armchair in heaven, on the right hand of hisself (DON'T ask how to determine the right hand side outside of spacetime! ) munching popcorn and watching the show down here on earth. Sure beats daytime TV! Hey - lookat all the fun in Syria! Nothing like a good action flick with kids and artillery shells!
Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

"What good fortune for those in power that people do not think." - Hitler

Offline ungod

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #61 on: March 12, 2012, 08:32:41 AM »
f only you would accept God and Jesus and then you would understand.

Aaaah, te "secret knowledge" claim! Now where have we heard that before? ROTFL!

Get your secret decoder ring!

http://
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Offline ungod

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #62 on: March 12, 2012, 09:18:58 AM »

Just because I'm prepared to die doesn't mean I'm going to waste my life. If someone was a Christian and did that to end their life God would NOT be happy. He doesn't say, since you will go to heaven just go ahead and die.

WHAT! Are you suggesting God is against martyrdom? After all, didn't God martyr hisself as His own son to save us all from His wrath? Isn't Jesus the example we should all strive to emulate?
What blasphemy are you saying here?
Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

"What good fortune for those in power that people do not think." - Hitler

Offline velkyn

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #63 on: March 12, 2012, 10:49:59 AM »
"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15 NIV)
If the Bible is to be useful and understood, it needs to be correctly handled.
Ah, again with a Chritian sure that his way is the only way to “correctly handle” the bible.  Sorry, Jakec47, but all Christians claim this and all of you have no more evidence that you are any more right than the Christian who disagrees with you.  Your bible claims that it was inspired by your god.  Your god is quite inept at making itself understood. 

Quote
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14 NIV)
None who have not the Spirit of God abiding in them will be able to understand or even accept the things written in the Bible. It matters not that you were a minister because if you are no longer a Christian then you do not have the Spirit of God and you probably never did. If you had you would have known the truth and not fallen away. You sound like you have a great knowledge, if only you would accept God and Jesus and then you would understand.
  which is quite a chicken and egg problem for Christians.  So, how do you end up accepting a book that you can’t accept without already accepting it?  That’s as stupid as it sounds, Jakec47.  Each Christian is sure that they and only they have the “holy spirit” telling them what their god “really” meant, and sadly this holy spirit is also shown to be just humans making things up to feel superior. 

You whine and want to claim that people who were Christians just as good as you weren’t “really” Christians.  So, show me how I can know that you are the only RealTrueChristian, Jakec47.  How about healing someone?  Your god says you can do it, so why not go to your local VA hospital and do something good?  But I’m sure you don’t since you can’t.  You have no more claim to being a Christian than anyone else does. 

At one point I did accept this god and Jesus and I thought I understood just like you.  I then started losing my faith and prayed and prayed not to.  But this god did nothing, and that showed even more that Christianity was no different than the worship of Zeus or Odin or Amon-Ra.   Why did this god do nothing if it existed and is like you claim, all omnipnotent, omniscient and all-good?  Why do you and it fail ever single time?  Your religon is a ridiculous as the next.

As I said before, Jakec47, if you think you want to be a police detective, you need to improve the way you think, or every judge will laugh you out of court every time you try to support a case.  Make-believe is no substitute for facts and evidence.  If you can’t get over this primitive ignorant superstition, I will feel sorry for you when you are on your deathbed and realizing that you were lied to, when no god has returned at all.   
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Offline GodlessHeathen

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #64 on: March 12, 2012, 12:10:57 PM »
"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15 NIV)
If the Bible is to be useful and understood, it needs to be correctly handled.

And jakec47, of course, knows exactly how to handle the Bible correctly.
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" (Christopher Hitchens).

Offline jakec47

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #65 on: March 12, 2012, 06:31:23 PM »

Just because I'm prepared to die doesn't mean I'm going to waste my life. If someone was a Christian and did that to end their life God would NOT be happy. He doesn't say, since you will go to heaven just go ahead and die.

WHAT! Are you suggesting God is against martyrdom? After all, didn't God martyr hisself as His own son to save us all from His wrath? Isn't Jesus the example we should all strive to emulate?
What blasphemy are you saying here?

Your ignorance is painful. There are two ways to commit blasphemy.
1. Saying you are God
2. Saying You have the power to forgive sins.

You should really learn how to comprehend what you read.

Offline jakec47

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2012, 06:34:03 PM »
"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15 NIV)
If the Bible is to be useful and understood, it needs to be correctly handled.
Ah, again with a Chritian sure that his way is the only way to “correctly handle” the bible.  Sorry, Jakec47, but all Christians claim this and all of you have no more evidence that you are any more right than the Christian who disagrees with you.  Your bible claims that it was inspired by your god.  Your god is quite inept at making itself understood. 

Quote
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14 NIV)
None who have not the Spirit of God abiding in them will be able to understand or even accept the things written in the Bible. It matters not that you were a minister because if you are no longer a Christian then you do not have the Spirit of God and you probably never did. If you had you would have known the truth and not fallen away. You sound like you have a great knowledge, if only you would accept God and Jesus and then you would understand.
  which is quite a chicken and egg problem for Christians.  So, how do you end up accepting a book that you can’t accept without already accepting it?  That’s as stupid as it sounds, Jakec47.  Each Christian is sure that they and only they have the “holy spirit” telling them what their god “really” meant, and sadly this holy spirit is also shown to be just humans making things up to feel superior. 

You whine and want to claim that people who were Christians just as good as you weren’t “really” Christians.  So, show me how I can know that you are the only RealTrueChristian, Jakec47.  How about healing someone?  Your god says you can do it, so why not go to your local VA hospital and do something good?  But I’m sure you don’t since you can’t.  You have no more claim to being a Christian than anyone else does. 

At one point I did accept this god and Jesus and I thought I understood just like you.  I then started losing my faith and prayed and prayed not to.  But this god did nothing, and that showed even more that Christianity was no different than the worship of Zeus or Odin or Amon-Ra.   Why did this god do nothing if it existed and is like you claim, all omnipnotent, omniscient and all-good?  Why do you and it fail ever single time?  Your religon is a ridiculous as the next.

As I said before, Jakec47, if you think you want to be a police detective, you need to improve the way you think, or every judge will laugh you out of court every time you try to support a case.  Make-believe is no substitute for facts and evidence.  If you can’t get over this primitive ignorant superstition, I will feel sorry for you when you are on your deathbed and realizing that you were lied to, when no god has returned at all.

How about healing someone? I can't, well I never actually tried, but no man can but God working through man can. There are those in other countries who I've heard can heal. I'd heard in another country a small baby died and they held the baby to the sky and prayed to God and the baby came back to life.

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2012, 08:13:04 PM »
Your ignorance is painful.

Agree with the sentiment, moreso when a track record of ignorance is compounded with a Dunning-Krugeresque confidence.

"To suppose that the eye could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree." - Charles Darwin

Interesting to know we only use 10% of our brain.

You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline GodlessHeathen

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2012, 08:14:31 PM »
How about healing someone? I can't, well I never actually tried, but no man can but God working through man can. There are those in other countries who I've heard can heal. I'd heard in another country a small baby died and they held the baby to the sky and prayed to God and the baby came back to life.

Do you have any evidence that is not hearsay?
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" (Christopher Hitchens).

Offline velkyn

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #69 on: March 13, 2012, 08:41:14 AM »
How about healing someone? I can't, well I never actually tried, but no man can but God working through man can. There are those in other countries who I've heard can heal. I'd heard in another country a small baby died and they held the baby to the sky and prayed to God and the baby came back to life.

So, where’s the evidence that this has *ever* happened?  Where are the reports of independent observers, the medical records before and after, etc?  All of those stories are garbage, Jakec47.  As godlessheathen has pointed out, hearsay is just about worthless.  I’ve also heard those stories too and have heard that other gods do the exact same things.  Are those gods real too?  I do expect an answer to this question, Jakec47. 

Why are these stories always from some primitive country where they can produce no evidence? Why do you depend on such nonsense as supposed evidence for your religion?  We constantly get told that this god of yours can heal but it’s never shown to be true.  We have people dying of starvation, diarrhea, things that modern medicine can heal if the people just had access.  And your god, which you claim heals people, lets them all die all of the time.  I’ve seen Christians come on here and claim that they were healed.  One, screen name of “skitch” claimed that he was so famous because of his healing miracle that he was written about in medical journals.  When I asked for the name of his doctor and for the medical journal he was in, he left the forum never giving this information that if his story was true, he should have been more than happy to give.  He was lying, Jakec47, just like the claimants of other magical healing are liars.  It’s really sad when people think they have the right to lie to me, to intentionally attempt to remove my ability to make an informed decision.  It’s even worse when the liar claims to worship a deity that supposedly hates lies and liars.  It just shows them to be hypocrites.

I know that it’s hard to realize that people would lie to you, especially those who you think share your religion.  But they do.  The need for external validation is very strong in theists, they want to believe that they are right and they are special.  So they accept anything that affirms this, and don’t want to find out that they are wrong.  Some need this validation so much that they do very bad things because they don’t think for themselves.
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Offline GodlessHeathen

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #70 on: March 13, 2012, 11:23:53 AM »
jakec47, do you have any intention of answering my on-topic questions here?

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" (Christopher Hitchens).

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #71 on: March 14, 2012, 05:48:17 AM »
There are those in other countries who I've heard can heal. I'd heard in another country a small baby died and they held the baby to the sky and prayed to God and the baby came back to life.

Did he seriously write that? OMFG hilarious.
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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #72 on: March 14, 2012, 07:57:21 AM »
They must be using more than ten percent of their brains, so they have baby healing powers.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline ungod

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #73 on: March 14, 2012, 08:37:34 AM »
Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

"What good fortune for those in power that people do not think." - Hitler

Offline jakec47

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #74 on: March 14, 2012, 07:00:26 PM »
How about healing someone? I can't, well I never actually tried, but no man can but God working through man can. There are those in other countries who I've heard can heal. I'd heard in another country a small baby died and they held the baby to the sky and prayed to God and the baby came back to life.

Do you have any evidence that is not hearsay?

Yes, In a book. Which i'm sure you'll say its a lie. Even when books are the most accurate indicators of history. We got all our history from books and writings. Its not like someone is going to heal someone and they are going to say, Wait stop lets get the camera so we can show those athiests!

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #75 on: March 14, 2012, 07:04:58 PM »
jakec47, perhaps you didn't understand. GodlessHeathen asked for evidence that is not hearsay. You know, something with x-rays, blood tests and such.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline jakec47

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #76 on: March 14, 2012, 07:18:45 PM »
The book is called "A Trip into the Supernatural" by Roger J. Morneau and it is nonfiction and the story of his life. Why doesn't this count as evidence. You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading, so you if your going to ask for my proof let me see yours.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #77 on: March 14, 2012, 07:41:31 PM »
How about healing someone? I can't, well I never actually tried, but no man can but God working through man can. There are those in other countries who I've heard can heal. I'd heard in another country a small baby died and they held the baby to the sky and prayed to God and the baby came back to life.

Do you have any evidence that is not hearsay?

Yes, In a book. Which i'm sure you'll say its a lie. Even when books are the most accurate indicators of history. We got all our history from books and writings. Its not like someone is going to heal someone and they are going to say, Wait stop lets get the camera so we can show those athiests!

Well, since religious people are supposed to witness to the rest of us all about the awesome powers of their god, that is exactly what they should be doing. Every single time there is a prayer meeting, healing session or laying on of hands, there should be news cameras, reporters, pre and post xrays, notarized statements from medical professionals, and sworn affidavits by witnesses. Isn't it important enough to do that? It could be Christians, Muslims, Hindus, or any group out there. Think of the converts, the souls saved.  Everyone on the planet would become believers in your religion immediately.

Amazing with the internet and youtube and cellphone videos in existence for decades now, we still don't have one single well-documented, unequivocal case of a single magical healing of a serious, uncurable condition by prayer. Not one single case of traumatic brain injury, Down's syndrome, ALS, spinal cord paralysis or senile dementia cured by prayer.  Hell, I'd accept a well-documented case of serious acne cured by prayer.

Still the same vague, undocumented stories about something ambiguous that happened in a distant land. Or something ordinary that could have healed on its own anyway, even if rather unlikely. Or stuff that is not really that miraculous like healing an asthma attack or a migraine (nothing known to humans ever helps asthma or migraines...)

 The religious people have not come very far if they still don't have the whole amputee healing video thing down yet. If it is really as common and easy for god to do and all.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline jakec47

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #78 on: March 14, 2012, 07:50:20 PM »
I'm sure somewhere you could find someone who had cancer for example and the tumor disappeared. Also if they did what you suggest and proved that a miracle happened and God healed someone then your right people would believe, but most would call it a fake and say Christians planted the evidence or things were falsified. Even so if they did that and people did believe, what would faith mean? Nothing, people would not believe out of faith, which is what God wants, they would believe out of evidence. And people who believe out of evidence would not do what God wanted out of love but of fear. They would know that God exists so they would think to themselves we have to follow his commands now and ask for forgiveness or we will be thrown into hell. And they would not be sincere but only to save themselves. That is why God will never prove his existence. He will only give enough for you to hold on to and when he comes that is when he will prove himself. If we take Jesus' life for example we see he performed many miracles and wondrous things, but did the Jews believe him, no, they killed him. Same thing would happen today if someone did miracles.

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #79 on: March 14, 2012, 07:52:31 PM »
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

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You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline GodlessHeathen

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #80 on: March 14, 2012, 07:54:12 PM »
The book is called "A Trip into the Supernatural" by Roger J. Morneau and it is nonfiction and the story of his life. Why doesn't this count as evidence. You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading, so you if your going to ask for my proof let me see yours.

Creationists are always complaining about "missing links." The fossil record we have is exactly what one would expect if life gradually evolved from a common ancestor with the driving mechanism being natural selection through survival of offspring with those traits that serve them best for their environment. The species that "won out" in the "race" are the most common in the fossil record, because they had a chance to reproduce many times before going extinct. The species that "lost" the "race" did not have time to reproduce extensively before going exctinct; therefore, we see very few, if any, of them in the fossil record.

Your statement that there is "no evidence" for evolution is patently false. And the evidence from the fossil record is not the only evidence we have. The best evidence for evolution is the DNA evidence. For example, there is the gene sequence that humans share in common with apes: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/defense-evolution.html

If you aren't afraid to examine the evidence, check Richard Dawkins' book, The Greatest Show On Earth: The Evidence for Evolution @ http://www.amazon.com/Richard-Dawkins-Greatest-Show-Earth/dp/B004P7O8X4/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1331772804&sr=8-10
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 08:24:13 PM by GodlessHeathen »
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" (Christopher Hitchens).

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #81 on: March 14, 2012, 07:54:23 PM »
So why bother trying to witness to us if you don't think anything will change our minds? I am absolutely serious. If I see real proof and evidence of a healing by prayer, I will believe what ever religious is responsible. And I am a very skeptical, science-trained person.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline GodlessHeathen

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #82 on: March 14, 2012, 08:00:36 PM »
I'm sure somewhere you could find someone who had cancer for example and the tumor disappeared. Also if they did what you suggest and proved that a miracle happened and God healed someone then your right people would believe, but most would call it a fake and say Christians planted the evidence or things were falsified. Even so if they did that and people did believe, what would faith mean? Nothing, people would not believe out of faith, which is what God wants, they would believe out of evidence. And people who believe out of evidence would not do what God wanted out of love but of fear. They would know that God exists so they would think to themselves we have to follow his commands now and ask for forgiveness or we will be thrown into hell. And they would not be sincere but only to save themselves. That is why God will never prove his existence. He will only give enough for you to hold on to and when he comes that is when he will prove himself. If we take Jesus' life for example we see he performed many miracles and wondrous things, but did the Jews believe him, no, they killed him. Same thing would happen today if someone did miracles.

Many did believe, though, according to the Bible. And does the story not go that doubting Thomas believed because of a miracle? (John 20:27-30)
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" (Christopher Hitchens).

Offline GodlessHeathen

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #83 on: March 14, 2012, 08:02:55 PM »
So why bother trying to witness to us if you don't think anything will change our minds? I am absolutely serious. If I see real proof and evidence of a healing by prayer, I will believe what ever religious is responsible. And I am a very skeptical, science-trained person.

As will I. First and foremost, I value intellectual honesty. If I am presented with concrete evidence, indeed, I can't help but believe. As yet, I have not seen so much as a single medical report, at least not one that could not be explained by the natural ability of the body to heal itself.
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" (Christopher Hitchens).

Offline jakec47

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #84 on: March 14, 2012, 08:29:23 PM »
Well that was alot to read on that link you gave me. And I did not find any fossil evidence in there. I did see a slideshow titled Fossil Evidence but just filled with pictures. It had fish to amphibians and it showed three species that they assume to have evolved but I see three different animals that did not evolve into one another but are separate and distinct. As for all the rest. The quadrupedal primates to bipedal primates showed three more pictures. Showing a monkey on all fours then one who could walk and go on fours and then humans. But again it appears that the all three are separate creatures. Just because a monkey could walk on two legs doesn't mean it was a man. It is still a monkey. I'm not looking for two things that look the same but two things that are connected.

Offline GodlessHeathen

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #85 on: March 14, 2012, 08:31:35 PM »
Well that was alot to read on that link you gave me. And I did not find any fossil evidence in there. I did see a slideshow titled Fossil Evidence but just filled with pictures. It had fish to amphibians and it showed three species that they assume to have evolved but I see three different animals that did not evolve into one another but are separate and distinct. As for all the rest. The quadrupedal primates to bipedal primates showed three more pictures. Showing a monkey on all fours then one who could walk and go on fours and then humans. But again it appears that the all three are separate creatures. Just because a monkey could walk on two legs doesn't mean it was a man. It is still a monkey. I'm not looking for two things that look the same but two things that are connected.

The link deals with DNA evidence, which is the strongest evidence we have.

Edit@ See above:
The best evidence for evolution is the DNA evidence. For example, there is the gene sequence that humans share in common with apes: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/defense-evolution.html

Look under the "Common Ancestry" header.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 08:42:33 PM by GodlessHeathen »
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" (Christopher Hitchens).

Offline jakec47

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Re: When is the return of Christ?
« Reply #86 on: March 14, 2012, 08:56:42 PM »
Oh yes I did read that and we share similar DNA is what I got out of it. The key there I think it similar but not the same. They have more chromosomes then we do and to say that one of ours fused and that's why we have less. It really sounds doubtful. How could one of ours just do that and for what reason. Not to mention what is the proof that that actually happened. Now, if I misunderstood anything in that article please tell me, it was very in depth.