Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?

[fishjie]

Trolling fundies is fun.   I do it for entertainment.      Because how else are you going to respond to a guy who takes the bible seriously?    Have you READ the bible?    I have.   Genesis to Revelation.   Multiple times.    3 chapters from the OT and 3 chapters from the NT a day, over the course of a dozen + years.

The Bible is pretty ridiculous.   Anybody who takes it as an inerrant word of god is a blithering idiot, and as such does not have the mental capacity to respond to grown up conversation with.    The only language they will understand is mockery.   

I'm way more nice to liberal christians and actually like them a lot.

[Mr. Blackwell]

That being said, I don't see how you could debate atheists "for years" and not have become one.

It's not too difficult to imagine. For example, I have been a member of this forum for several years...I had an account on the old forum before they created this one. However, my religious position hasn't changed much at all. Then again, my position is not very rigid and doesn't resemble any sort of organized religion or doctrine. That's not important. What is important is to understand that BSD MAN did not come here to gain truth or enlightenment about the nature of reality or to expand his mind. He came here to study atheists, to learn their ways...what makes them tick. His whole approach is skewed from the very beginning because he seems to treat the atheist as a mere curiosity. 

Until he realizes that there is no real difference between a person of faith and a person who chooses a different path, he is doomed to keep experiencing rejection from the thing he wishes to understand.

There is a very simple and elegant word to describe what he is doing but for the life of me I can't think of it at the moment. The concept goes something like this: If a young black man perceives that white people judge him negatively because he is a young black man then when he finds himself in the company of white people he will act differently than he normally would but completely unaware that he is doing so. He might not smile or depending on the situation he might assume a defensive posture. The white people, not knowing any better, see this young black man's unfriendly and defensive posture and judge him negatively. Thus confirming the young black man's point of view that white people judge him because he is young and black.

BSD MAN is doing the same thing with atheism right now, at this moment.

[kin hell]

projection?

[Mr. Blackwell]

projection?

No, that's close...it's like a cross between projection + self fulfilling prophecy and confirmation bias. It's gonna drive me crazy.

[Hatter23]

That being said, I don't see how you could debate atheists "for years" and not have become one.

All it talkes is some combination of slavish fear of fairie tales indoctrinated  into a person as a child, a lack of intellectual honesty, stupidity, and unease at the implications of a Godless/Soulless Universe.

Not all of these elements have to be present, but at least one does.

Then you can do so

[monkeymind]

BSD

Monkey Mind –
“Where have you been hanging out since then?” - Working, like I should be doing now.

“Do you find a culture of respect more conducive to discussion?” Yes, don’t you?

“In those discussions are people swayed more often?” –Good question.  I’ve don’t think I’ve swayed anyone, as no one has ever swayed me, but when I fell I hit a homerun on a point, people here tend not to respond.  If I get a firestorm, then I’ve hit a nerve and maybe didn’t explain things the way I should have. 

Sorry, I could have been more clear.
Was wondering what other forums you were visiting (atheist, Christian)?
In those other forums, and if not sarcastic conversations,  what were the results? Anyone ever converted or de-converted?

[velkyn]

As Omen has already noted, to claim that “not every opinion must be qualified and verified”, is horseshit and awfully convenient for a theist.  BSD, you claim that your religion is the only “right” one.  You come here and try to claim that you know all about the catholic church and how wonderful it is, how it’s the only real Christianity.  However, since you have no evidence that this is the case, and you refuse to acknowledge any evidence to the contrary, this is you blowing hot air.   We could have discussions about how the Jedi activate their light sabers, is it just a button or do you need to have the Force, but since it’s imaginary, there’s no reason to take anything seriously.   Since you have the same problem, why should you think anyone should take you seriously or respect your nonsense? 

[velkyn]

....and sometimes mate
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions" Thomas Jefferson

actually, it seems that BSD might be confusing the two.  I don't often see sarcasm on the forum, but oh, lots of ridicule.

[monkeymind]

Good point. I think ridicule or mockery is more common. Although a good biting sarcastic remark is sometimes appreciated (by me).

[Hatter23]

....and sometimes mate
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions" Thomas Jefferson

actually, it seems that BSD might be confusing the two.  I don't often see sarcasm on the forum, but oh, lots of ridicule.

Well anyone bringing up the FSM is engaging in sarcasm, aren't they?

[velkyn]

Well anyone bringing up the FSM is engaging in sarcasm, aren't they?

you're probably right there, but I still don't recall it being used too much. 

[Omen]

Whining about your imagined poor treatment is a way to change the subject and to deflect attention from criticism you do not wish to acknowledge.

[Hatter23]

Whining about your imagined poor treatment is a way to change the subject and to deflect attention from criticism you do not wish to acknowledge.

Seriously, if I go on about witches casting a curse on me, and the dangers of witches...is it wrong that the PTA gives me crap for bring that up at PTa meetings?

[gonegolfing]

I’ve been posting and debating atheists for years.  Over time I’ve seen a lot of unique individuals, many of whom have nothing in common except their shared non-belief.  However there is one thing, over time, I see over and over and over again that disturbs me… and that is a heavy reliance on sarcasm from atheists in response to whatever thread they are engaging in.  If anyone recalls me, I visited here fairly regularly on this forum from 2006-2009 and have dropped by sparingly ever since.  My areas of interest lie in: the culture of atheism, Catholic doctrinal discussion, basic apologetics.  My style is to merely explain my stance and the Church's stance on whatever, argue a point or two, and move on.  About 10% of you atheists will give an honest to goodness debate that involves respect, intellect and curiosity – which is the reason I am here.  However, about 90% of the time I see a quick jab, a sarcastic remark, a (predictable) reference to pedophile priests and the Inquisition that may get a laugh from the peanut gallery, but in the end serves no ultimate purpose.  I honestly want to come back with a sarcastic rebuttal, then I hold back thinking “how do I want to be perceived in this debate?”  Sarcasm achieves so very little in my opinion that I wound up counting to 10, and repeated “calm blue ocean, calm blue ocean” 100 times and continued in debate (well, not really but you get my point).

I have been contemplating joining the discussion again, but I recall such a sarcastic backlash from many atheists in this forum on most of my posts that it seems such a colossal waste of time – what could possibly be accomplished?  So I ask, what IS the purpose, reason and meaning behind such useless and time wasting sarcastic remarks?  Pent up frustration?  A desire to dig into theists (particularly Catholics?)?  Get a laugh from your buddies?  What does sarcasm accomplish?  Because it wears on people and does not reflect well.

So I ask… should I come back and try to search some honest debate, or just leave knowing that the culture of sarcasm I discovered 6 years as is healthy as ever?  Why the all the sarcasm?

Without shame, I admit that on occasion I'm one of the 90%.

Why ? ...because ridiculous, oppressive, and oft time dangerous, bullshit is always worthy of mockery or ridicule or contempt.

You think we're curious ? Think again...... I could be wrong, but I don't know of one atheist here who has a strong desire to know about a "god". Or that any atheist here thinks of the god idea as an interesting one worthy of the respect that theists demand.

A keen intellect is what produces the sarcasm that your concerned about...that's something that you should respect and strive for. You may not appreciate the irony that we use, but it's essential in a well balanced discussion, and a natural manifestation in a person who is experiencing good mental health.

Yes, you should come back.

Cheers

[caveat_imperator]

Not every opinion must be qualified and verified.

I reject that assertion.

[screwtape]

Why the all the sarcasm?

It is a culturewide trend, not unique to atheists.  Being snarky is also a cultural trend.  We're just better at it than most.

[atheola]

Lookie here.
Ya start us off with god lite who lives in a frozen ocean and once a year he slides down every chimney in the world..well every chimney where the cool kids live then later he morphs into a skinny zombie hippie and YOU have the nerve to call US sarcastic?
Interesting...

[KISSME]

Dear Rock’n Roll BSD MAN

Now that my children are adults and fend for themselves, I can say nine things about them/me:

1. I did not encourage them to be “non-something”. (Atheism is not a religion, just a mere non-belief)
2. I did not expose them to something called “god” (There is no evidence of a god)
3. I did not expose them to Abraham but did expose them to spaghetti fights. (there is no difference btwn the god of Abraham, allah, zues and the Invisible Flying Spaghetti Monster)
4. I exposed them to morality.  (religion does not hold a monopoly on morality)
5. I exposed them to the good and the bad. (religion is bad because it causes strife, massive needless deaths, wars, endless conflicts)
6. They are no smarter or dumber than anyone else and they’ll never make it to the TV show Jeopardy for they lack one category … guess which one it is. (atheists tend to be smarter, search for truth and are more mindful than the Xtians zombie heard who follow without questioning)
7. I exposed them to life which inevitably leads to death. (atheists are not afraid of dying)
8. I exposed them to today’s world, truth having nothing to do with it. (atheists are more in tune with the world, the truth, humanity and charity, and therefore hold an edge on living a fuller, more healthy and complete life)
9. They are generous and need not be labelled under organizations xyz. (some theists are truly generous and nice people who do good, but are still flawed as made evident by their belief.)

Asking them what “The Book of Genesis” means to them, chances are they’ll reply “The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, Selling England by the Pound etc.” Telling them that Genesis is a die-hard Christian musical group, they’ll reply “No way, prove it”. I can’t but proving it to myself is good enough.

Many Christians in my surrounding disapproved of the decisions I made about thirty years ago. Realizing that they are powerless before this new generation, Christians now concentrate their efforts (frustrations) towards the State i.e. stiffening abortion and criminal laws, infiltrating creationism in science school class, imposing Christian prayers before State assemblies etc. Many times their frustrations turn into sarcasm.

Never oh never will the new generation need a place like WWGHA to get their frustrations out for they are more free than me.

Family is not the propriety of religion.

[atheola]

Not to mention the one truth of life is that sarcasm makes for the best jokes and face it xtianman..we have an actual sense of humor not born of fear of the boogieman under our beds at night.

[jetson]

Not to mention the one truth of life is that sarcasm makes for the best jokes and face it xtianman..we have an actual sense of humor not born of fear of the boogieman under our beds at night.

Speak for yourself, I'm alone for a week, and I definitely heard noises under there last night.  Wait, maybe it was just me trembling in fear?

[atheola]

It's those "persons" you probably left on that scrody old towel doing unmentionable acts.

[BSD MAN]

Omen:
“I've crossed out the meaningless parts.  If you have evidence for a claim, back up the claim.  If you don't, then admit that you do not.”
-I’ll do what I can.  In the end I’m going to do what I want and it may make you satisfied and it may not.  I have no control over that.

“You are over generalizing an entire community based on responses that you won't even explain or cite examples for.   You no more qualify that then you qualify the assertion that sarcasm renders an argument invalid. We have no means to even determine your conclusions follow logically or rationally, much less why they were made in the first place.”
-As a general rule, I would agree with you.  But everyone, except you (and maybe one other) accepted, understood and agreed about this specific debate about using sarcasm.  So people got it, would you agree?  I am a bit more relaxed and conversational in my style, so I’m not going to be top heavy with evidence especially with regards to an opinion that is purely subjective.  Again, I will do what I can, but most of the issues I engage real life opinions/assertions that have been influenced by my faith.  I will offer reasons why I think so, and either you agree or don’t. 

Kin hell-
“Do you understand that if you are going to do nothing but the standard theist make claims/fail to substantiate shuffle, you will be met with sarcasm at least?”
-Yes, but I thought opinion, subjective statement, like I did, is less provable.  It’s opinion.  If I make a claim, like “God exists” I will provide evidence as I see fit.

Godlessheathen
“I am of the school of thought that a person can "catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." My goal is to get people to think critically, to get them to decide their worldview for themselves rather than simply accepting what they've been taught.”
-I think we agree on this point.  We come to different conclusions, but we have a similar style.

Jaybell
“What is important is to understand that BSD MAN did not come here to gain truth or enlightenment about the nature of reality or to expand his mind. He came here to study atheists, to learn their ways...what makes them tick. His whole approach is skewed from the very beginning because he seems to treat the atheist as a mere curiosity. “ Respectfully, this is contradictory to me.  Isn’t studying a subject a desire to gain truth?  I may not personally ever agree with people here on many points, but I will (and I have) gained knowledge merely by being a part of this forum since ’06.  I’ve learned a lot. I’ve learned WHY you have come to many of the atheist conclusions, I don’t agree with them, but I am searching and exposing myself to them.  I also appreciate your black/white analogy. 

Monkeymind-
“Was wondering what other forums you were visiting (atheist, Christian)?
In those other forums, and if not sarcastic conversations,  what were the results? Anyone ever converted or de-converted?”
-I visited atheistthinktank.com for a while, until it ran into problems.  I have been searching for atheist forums but they all seemed to run into technical problems for one reason or another (why is this?).  I don’t care for Christian forums much, unless I am searching for answers to really difficult doctrinal questions.  I don’t like debating in them, either, because there is no real degree of difficulty or cooky crazy people that I find vastly different from me or interesting.  I debate solely in atheist forums, but not much of it since ’09.

Velkyn-
“You come here and try to claim that you know all about the catholic church and how wonderful it is, how it’s the only real Christianity.  However, since you have no evidence that this is the case”
-Evidence and you refuse to acknowledge any evidence to the contrary, this is you blowing hot air.  We could have discussions about how the Jedi activate their light sabers, is it just a button or do you need to have the Force, but since it’s imaginary, there’s no reason to take anything seriously.   Since you have the same problem, why should you think anyone should take you seriously or respect your nonsense?”
-I guess this is the problem I have with you, Velkyn, and not necessarily the forum, because many here engage the issue at hand while leaving my religion out of the debate.  I have not come here as a blazing firebrand to attack the “heathens” here.  That is not my strength nor my desire.  If you try to get me off topic, you will be disappointed.  You have ignored my OP and gone for the throat, which is my religion (again, NOT in the OP).  I made no assertion regarding anything but the subject of sarcasm, and you hijack this post and take it to a different place.  Do I really have to prove God’s existence in every post / thread as a qualifier to engage in this forum?  What if I don’t feel like it?  Show forum rules as evidence that I have to. 

[sun_king]

Do I really have to prove God’s existence in every post / thread as a qualifier to engage in this forum?  What if I don’t feel like it?  Show forum rules as evidence that I have to.

Proving once would suffice.

And I wont be whining about the abundant sarcasm in your last post.

[MadBunny]

So I ask… should I come back and try to search some honest debate, or just leave knowing that the culture of sarcasm I discovered 6 years as is healthy as ever?  Why the all the sarcasm?

Mainly it's because most theists are not serious about having an honest conversation.
If they were, then they'd quickly realize that the vast majority of their arguments are unsupportable in any real way.

[atheola]

Sarcasm is a nice defense mechanism against the nuttiness of church(s) doctrine and outrageous claims of [ insert batshit craziness here ]...

[kin hell]

Kin hell-
“Do you understand that if you are going to do nothing but the standard theist make claims/fail to substantiate shuffle, you will be met with sarcasm at least?”
-Yes, but I thought opinion, subjective statement, like I did, is less provable.  It’s opinion.  If I make a claim, like “God exists” I will provide evidence as I see fit.

Yes BSD it's your opinion, but you have come here to an atheist forum to express your opinion.
The obvious consequence of which is you are going to asked to give evidence that shows that your opinion is something to which it is worth listening.
Your codicil "I will provide evidence as I see fit." does not bode well.

You expect us to listen to your opinion when you are either unable or unwilling to provide suitable evidence that may give "your opinion" a modicum more credibility than the idea that the flying pigs are made of green cheese.

Essentially you are claiming, on an atheist site, the privilege of pronouncing your accurate theistic opinion, without showing your workings.   

 Nah! it just don't work like that.

[Olivianus]

In two short days of being a member of this forum  I have refused to reply to any more comments from 3 different users here (Kin Hell, Lucifer, and Velkyn) because of this. Atheists in general, there are exceptions, are the most insolent, bitter, miserable people I have ever met. I was raised by one. I have had many years of experience with atheism and i hate every last inch of it for this.

[GodlessHeathen]

Atheists in general, there are exceptions, are the most insolent, bitter, miserable people I have ever met.

Personally, I am very happy as an atheist. I find more meaning in life believing that this is all there is. It places the responsibility on my head to make a difference in the here and now, makes me appreciate the people in my life more knowing that our lives are finite and short. I try not to be rude to believers but am often firm in the delivery of my points because I feel so strongly that religion has done more harm than good.

That being said, there are a lot of reasons why I can see why an atheist would be cynical towards people who believe, particularly one who was a former believer: the feeling of having been deceived by people of faith, frustration with those who attempt to impede the public from understanding scientific discovery and willingly desire to propagate superstition, and some of us have experienced arrogance and insolence from believers as well.

[kin hell]

In two short days of being a member of this forum  I have refused to reply to any more comments from 3 different users here (Kin Hell, Lucifer, and Velkyn) because of this. Atheists in general, there are exceptions, are the most insolent, bitter, miserable people I have ever met. I was raised by one. I have had many years of experience with atheism and i hate every last inch of it for this.

...the streets are wet with my tears    it must be raining

You crybaby liar.

     Pity you are unable to exercise the first bit of intellectual honesty when any of your (less than adequately supported) claims are shown to be in error.

I would bet that you are unable to show any credible evidence of you ever publicly acknowledging any significant error that you have made.

Why would I make a bet like that? Because as much as I dislike doing this, I find myself relegating you to a "type".

The type that inevitably blames everyone else for his own tainted existence. 

 You've marched in here as a 2D cutout and have done nothing to dispel that image.

You projected dishonesty onto me in your very first post to me and have not addressed that inaccurate and dishonest slur once since.

Fuck your sad little existence, have you never wondered that if you meet nothing but insolence from people then it's probably you as the lowest common denominator, you lightweight dysfunctional experiment in christian morality.