Author Topic: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?  (Read 4577 times)

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Offline BSD MAN

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Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« on: February 29, 2012, 09:20:09 PM »
I’ve been posting and debating atheists for years.  Over time I’ve seen a lot of unique individuals, many of whom have nothing in common except their shared non-belief.  However there is one thing, over time, I see over and over and over again that disturbs me… and that is a heavy reliance on sarcasm from atheists in response to whatever thread they are engaging in.  If anyone recalls me, I visited here fairly regularly on this forum from 2006-2009 and have dropped by sparingly ever since.  My areas of interest lie in: the culture of atheism, Catholic doctrinal discussion, basic apologetics.  My style is to merely explain my stance and the Church's stance on whatever, argue a point or two, and move on.  About 10% of you atheists will give an honest to goodness debate that involves respect, intellect and curiosity – which is the reason I am here.  However, about 90% of the time I see a quick jab, a sarcastic remark, a (predictable) reference to pedophile priests and the Inquisition that may get a laugh from the peanut gallery, but in the end serves no ultimate purpose.  I honestly want to come back with a sarcastic rebuttal, then I hold back thinking “how do I want to be perceived in this debate?”  Sarcasm achieves so very little in my opinion that I wound up counting to 10, and repeated “calm blue ocean, calm blue ocean” 100 times and continued in debate (well, not really but you get my point).

I have been contemplating joining the discussion again, but I recall such a sarcastic backlash from many atheists in this forum on most of my posts that it seems such a colossal waste of time – what could possibly be accomplished?  So I ask, what IS the purpose, reason and meaning behind such useless and time wasting sarcastic remarks?  Pent up frustration?  A desire to dig into theists (particularly Catholics?)?  Get a laugh from your buddies?  What does sarcasm accomplish?  Because it wears on people and does not reflect well.

So I ask… should I come back and try to search some honest debate, or just leave knowing that the culture of sarcasm I discovered 6 years as is healthy as ever?  Why the all the sarcasm?
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Offline natlegend

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2012, 09:26:24 PM »
<snip>...and that is a heavy reliance on sarcasm from atheists in response to whatever thread they are engaging in...<snip>

You don't know me, so please don't paint me with that brush.
It's YOUR god, it's YOUR rules, YOU go to hell.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means...

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2012, 09:33:03 PM »
I have a sarcastic response. We can't be pious, so we gotta do something.

I think I see sarcasm rear it's ugly head most often when we get frustrated by the other side's inability or refusal to listen to what we are saying. Or they keep doing something very frustrating or ineffective, like quote scriipture without including their own interpretations. Or they don't explain some biblical theory of theirs well, like which verses are literal and which are metaphor.

Or they insist that atheism is a religion. But that's just a pet peeve.

Displaying a complete misunderstanding of the scientific theories about the origin of the universe or evolution can set us off. Especially if they insist they understand just fine, thank you. And then ask where the crockoducks are. If all they are spouting is standard fundy propaganda, about science or anything else, we see no reason to pretend that we're patient. at least I don't.

I am perfectly capable of having a civil discussion about anything, but when the other side makes demands of me that they don't ask of themselves, or otherwise try to make it one-sided, I figure all bets are off.

And of course, in a group this size, our individual fuses have different lengths. The thing that sets me off may or may not set off some of the others. Right now we're jumping all over a poor guy names Augusto, but he has an ego the size of Rick Santorum's vomit sack, and we have little patience for that. None, actually.

Propose an area of discussion and ask that we all be civil in that instance and see what happens. Just remember, such requests apply to you as well.
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Offline Death over Life

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2012, 09:41:15 PM »
I would chime in and mention that another attempt of sarcasm is because when theists tend to discuss with atheists, the theists don't come up with anything new or insightful. All it has ever been is either regurgitation of what a pastor says, or just throw out Bible Scriptures like giving candy to trick-or-treaters on Halloween. Due to the fact that it's nothing more than regurtitation or Bible Scriptures, they have already been answered to death long before you have even thought up of the question. So, because people in general don't like to research overall, we are having to constantly explain the same answers and same rebuttals that have been mentioned for years now, with that being met with ignorance. Because of this, atheists, and people in general, tend to get very annoyed and agitated having to constantly be a broken record over and over again, all because a theist just listens to a pastor without taking any thought or question into the indoctrination.

Get enough Rick Santorum like people, and you shouldn't be surprised when I or another atheist "snaps" sort to speak and blows up on the theist. I'll be the 1st to admit to blowing up on a theist on the intenet.

Offline sun_king

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2012, 09:58:44 PM »
The following is my personal response, it need not represent the collective opinion of this forum.

I will go with the notion that condescension begets sarcasm.

Why pedophile priests and Inqusition? When a Christian goes ballistic about a moral code and its divine origins, I will need to remind them of reality, to let them know that having a "moral code" is one thing, following it is another. What better means than reminding them of the intermediary between god and man doing the do? And it is always a challenge to you, to explain the plight of the victims of these pedophiles. Why has god forsaken the innocent children in their hour of need? A question that remains unanswered yet. It is not to get laughs, its for an explanation. You can count the calm blue oceans, or you can share their agony and ask the same question as I do. Where is god?

When all we need is a sensible (logical) answer, we have to live with special pleading and logical fallacies. Attempts to prove a book by the same book, statements like "you need to believe to understand". For me (us), THAT is sarcasm. An eye for an eye, isnt that in the book? You get what you give, it is not frustration or pent up agony, its the way life is.

You can also let go of the culture of sarcasm and come out with some honest answers. You can give it a try.

Offline jetson

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2012, 10:10:30 PM »
So I ask… should I come back and try to search some honest debate, or just leave knowing that the culture of sarcasm I discovered 6 years as is healthy as ever?  Why the all the sarcasm?

Have you read the title of this website?  And when was the last time you were a member of the most hated group in the United States, including pedophiles?  Has anyone ever told you that you are going to burn in hell forever?  How about being ostracized from job opportunities, or left out of social events because you don't believe in someone's god?

Some of us are here for the express purpose of mocking dishonest and condescending, self-righteous arrogance, hatred and bigotry perpetrated by some who claim to be speaking on behalf of their beloved "all-loving deity".  And we do get sarcastic at times.

Most of the atheists here have been believers.  They have "walked a mile in those shoes".  Have you walked a mile in ours?

Offline freakygin

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2012, 10:28:16 PM »
For me personally.
I was a believer once. But not anymore.
So, if i met a believer. I choose to let them be.
Whatever they believe is really not my concern.

At least i understand people won't like it if i just insult their God.

But, if a believer starting to get all mushy on me.
"The end is near!"
"Please Accept Jesus"
"I am trying to save you from hell"

Then i had to defend myself, Sarcastic may be an option.

To me, it's you believer who started the "War"
If you argue correctly, you're never wrong..

Offline kitar77

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2012, 10:34:42 PM »
Religion seems to be imaginary. That, in and of itself, warrants the use of sarcasm........ mostly because of the many ridiculous stories and claims that go along with religious text and belief systems........

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2012, 10:48:58 PM »
I would add that 99% of theist debates have been dishonest so you cannot engage in honest debates/discussion. How can we have an honest discussion if one cant admit that genocide is bad? If people can stop being absurd then we can stop being sarcastic.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2012, 11:33:55 PM »
Why the all the sarcasm?

First, you should know that I am authorized to speak for all atheists everywhere.

The sarcasm you detect is the side effect of a dying soul. We know that the god you worship is the one true god and out of selfish pride we have turned our back on him. We have followed in the footsteps of Satan. The sarcasm helps us tolerate our own suffering and makes it easier to recognize each other when in new places.
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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2012, 12:00:58 AM »
Why the all the sarcasm?

First, you should know that I am authorized to speak for all atheists everywhere.

The sarcasm you detect is the side effect of a dying soul. We know that the god you worship is the one true god and out of selfish pride we have turned our back on him. We have followed in the footsteps of Satan. The sarcasm helps us tolerate our own suffering and makes it easier to recognize each other when in new places.

Jayb, you realize that if you tell him about our secret handshake too we'll have to excommunicate you.
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Offline pingnak

Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2012, 12:10:10 AM »
I take it from your small post count that you've had your account killed at least once?

I think the sarcasm comes out when people lose absolutely all respect for yet another god-bothering, whining liar-for-jebus.

It only seems like we start 'sarcastic'.  In reality, most buybull bangers show themselves to be bores or whores or boring whores with their very first post.  When you preach but do not listen, it's hard for anyone to respect your opinion.

I would say, "It's hard to 'get' that message from jebus when you're talking with his dick in your mouth.", but that wouldn't be sarcastic, only particularly rude.  There are quite a few people who will troll and bait an obnoxious forum visitor, and a few Christians who come here from time to time are pretty rude and obnoxious.

Maybe try the conversation the long way around.  Talk about how you can't imagine a world without Jesus.  Share your feelings.  I certainly can't argue with how YOU feel.  Don't immediately start 'arguing' and spewing forth buybull curses, quotes and meaningless variations on pascal's wager, or tell us how you'll 'pray for our souls' in some condescending/passive-aggressive manner.  In fact, don't ever.


Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2012, 12:15:52 AM »
Jayb, you realize that if you tell him about our secret handshake too we'll have to excommunicate you.

OH SHIT!

Nah man it's cool...he won't believe me anyway.
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Offline Poseidon

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2012, 01:17:32 AM »
BSD Man; Please ignore the sarcastic responses momentarily.  There are also some explanatorry postings that have displayed reasonable decorum, avoided sarcasm and ad hominems. We are not a gang of militant thugs bent on ridiculing an intelligent and knowledgeable  christian who might venture here..

Theists with an intellectual bent are welcome here and will be treated with respect if the theist will present arguments in a manner that includes logic, reason, and evidence. 

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2012, 09:43:17 AM »
Sarcasm is a way of saying insulting things without being moderated.

This site is not terribly repressive when it comes to atheists dishing out insults, but there are others where you don't get to say anything, so sarcasm is a useful tool.

Sarcasm is also the language of the British and Australians; only Americans really whine about it. Those of British descent are not even really aware that they are being sarcastic. I know a guy who thought that 'subtle' meant the exact opposite, purely because he guessed it's meaning from common usage.

I suppose most of it around here is intentional irony, rather than technical sarcasm.

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2012, 09:49:31 AM »
Sometimes we get frustrated from hearing the same argument a thousand times. Sometimes we're just pissed. Sometimes we want to make a subtle point to the person we're talking to. Sometimes we just want to insult you without having the mods on our asses.[1] Sometimes (...).

We're no different than anyone else. Why do you use sarcasm? Think about that and you'll have your answer.
 1. But don't tell anyone about that. ;)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 09:55:23 AM by Lucifer »
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Offline Omen

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2012, 09:59:42 AM »
So I ask… should I come back and try to search some honest debate, or just leave knowing that the culture of sarcasm I discovered 6 years as is healthy as ever?  Why the all the sarcasm?

When did you establish that sarcasm is invalid?

What examples of this 'sarcasm' did you present before generalizing the entire community?

Why did you generalize the entire community?

How would I be able to tell your sincere disagreement with an issue, without examples, from a potential insecurity on your part in simply not liking criticism of your claims or desire to hold you accountable for what you claim?

Quote
"basic apologetics.  My style is to merely explain my stance and the Church's stance on whatever, "

"Basic apologetics" is usually the absence of rational arguments to an audience of people who do not believe and instead attempts to rationalize to an audience as if that audience believes already.  I find little intellectual value in 'apologetic' material.

I also do not understand why you think listing things you believe is relevant to a discussion without defending those things you claim?

If you're not going to defend anything you claim, why even bother?

How are we to separate your assertions from any ramblings of a mental patient in an asylum otherwise?
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Offline monkeymind

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2012, 10:19:25 AM »
Welcome back. Now go home! Ha just kidding! :)

Where have you been hanging out since then? Do you find a culture of respect more conducive to discussion? In those discussions are people swayed more often? Do Christians become atheist, or believers in the healing power of crystals become lovers of the scientific method, more frequently --in your observation?
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2012, 10:35:30 AM »
Why, BSD, you’re back!    And pretty much the same person you were when you left. 

I wonder, why does sarcasm disturb you so?  Might it be because it’s effective when dealing with the ridiculous claims of theism?  You’ve presented yourself as a representative of Roman Catholism, and you did do just like you said, tried to preach at us, and avoid the hard questions aka “moving on”. 

It’s always also good to see you declare that you have determined that only a certain percentage of atheists will give you a discussion with “respect, intellect and curiosity”.  Respect is earned, BSD, something you seem to forget.  And respect also doesn’t mean that your views are sacrosanct &)  It seems, like so many theists, you want an excuse, to declare that someone isn’t respectful enough for you or “too sarcastic” so you don’t have to answer them. 

As always, you wish to ignore the problems with your church.  There is little reason to respect a religion that is full of abusers and has killed people for its god.  If your god was the “good” thing you claim, why does it allow this if, in its myths, it has no patience for even those who would keep it’s magic box upright?

I find that sarcasm is quite effective and you’ve demonstrated that it is with your desperate pleas for it to stop.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2012, 10:36:31 AM »
Sarcasm can be an effective way of getting a point across and making one think a little.  When dealing with talking snakes and dead zombies what else can one use. ;)
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Offline Historicity

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2012, 10:42:33 AM »
  A desire to dig into theists (particularly Catholics?)? 
You've got a persecution complex there, my friend[1].  Catholics are only 1/3 of the believers in the English speaking world so my estimate of this site is they come in for 1/3 of the criticism.  The name of the site if you happen to ever notice it[2] is "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?"  Have you ever noticed any Catholic priest on TV performing "healings"[3].  It's always Protestants, usually with a murky affiliation, if any, with a known church.  So the title of this site has an anti-Protestant bias.
 1. That's sarcasm.  I don't really mean you're my friend.  I don't have any friends[1]
 1. That's sarcasm.  A sarcasm within a sarcasm.
 2. Sarcasm
 3. Quote mark sarcasm
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 11:18:06 AM by Historicity »

Offline Omen

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2012, 10:54:01 AM »
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=67a3c59c75083d9a2793e94efb768bf5&action=profile;u=1797;sa=showPosts

BSD Man's post on the old forum.

From my own observations: Rarely defends his positions, just lists things 'catholics' believe, repeats dogmatic stereotypes about atheist.
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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2012, 10:55:00 AM »
Because it is so easy to debunk theism with irony*#beyond that certain individual theists who arrive here full of piss and vinegar that sarcasm* is all they deserve.

*there is a difference between the two.

#sometimes a very simple counter-argument will come across as irony when it isn't really intended to e.g. the morality thing/inquisitions/pedophile priests.
Stupidity, unlike intelligence, has no limits.

Offline Historicity

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2012, 10:59:29 AM »
The English speaking world is largely influenced by Americans.

The largest white ethnic group in America is not English[1], it is German.

As the English noticed when so many Americans were stationed there in WW2, Americans are open, cheerful, bombastic -- and sarcastic.  That's good old German gemütlichkeit and so on. 

I noticed in Bill Murray's character in Groundhog Day was a funny weatherman and probably considered himself in the tradition of Irish wit.  He lived in heavily German Pennsylvania and his humor was actually cheap sarcasm.

In an episode of the new Avengers, one of them had a mission in Canada.  He expected some deference and that a part of the old empire would be an overseas England.  Instead he found that the Canadians were acidly sarcastic -- just like Americans.

I've tried reading atheist sites in other languages.  In contrast I once saw a French one which was pornographic ridicule of religion including a porno calendar with a nude insulting a different religion each month.  So there is a cultural effect.
 1. The US Census designates people from Wales, Cornwall and Scotland as Anglo-Saxon which is a name the actual Welsh in Wales, the Cornish in Cornwall and the Scots in Scotland would reject.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 11:06:50 AM by Historicity »

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2012, 11:45:17 AM »
Historicity,

You mean I've spent my whole life being a rebel, but my heavy use of sarcasm indicates that I have been successfully inculcated into society?

I did not need to know that.

Edit: If I were french I'm pretty sure I would have gone with the flow. What with the nudity and all.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2012, 11:45:56 AM »
Theistic thinking and religious thinking are both plagued by innumerable absurdities. 

One way to point out absurdity is to use sarcasm.  Satire is also good. 

If someone is using satire or sarcasm when discussing a topic with you, perhaps it is an acknowlegment of your intelligence...that person expects can you can percieve such things. 

Truly, when one tries to disect and analyze the bizarre elements of religious belief and explicate them, even if one is trying to do so in earnest, when another reads it, it can sound like sarcasm.

Because we are talking about a belief system that worships a god who arranged for the torture and execution of his only begotten son so as to prove how much he loves his human creations.  And a system that practices ritualist cannibalism by proxy.  Etc.

I did not type those things in an attempt to be sarcastic.  I type these things and still feel some the mental and emotional scars such horrible beliefs have left upon my brain. 

I suppose however, one could label this sarcasm, as an attempt to distance oneself from the realization that one's belief system is based upon sado-masochism and fear.

Offline Nam

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2012, 11:49:20 AM »
I come from a natural sarcastic family, who by the by, are mainly Christians.

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Offline Historicity

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2012, 12:23:16 PM »
You mean I've spent my whole life being a rebel, but my heavy use of sarcasm indicates that I have been successfully inculcated into society?

That's the sole valid point of postmodernism.  After that they say something like Newton was an Englishman so Newtonian physics must be a form of British Imperialism.  When you ask a question about whether a rocket in some other culture would have its jet shoot ahead or to the side and still be propelled forwards, they retreat into buzzwords and ad hominems.

Or they say that Newton was just building on other people's ideas so he really didn't do anything.  Which makes them the equal of a postmodernist who also doesn't do anything.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Atheists: What's with the sarcasm?
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2012, 12:50:08 PM »
When someone assert the ludicrous, and ignores when you point out that it does not correspond with reality...such as the catholic dogma you so feverently believe in...the only recourse is sarcasm.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.