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Offline orpat

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Hi, this is me
« on: February 29, 2012, 07:32:48 AM »
I am an atheist turned theist and looking for reasons to turn atheist/theist.

I was brought up as an atheist, always hated religion(reason- Different crimes happening but God not listening) and never was curious about it. But now I am.

I am new this site and hope to find  answers/solutions.
Hello Homo Sapiens

Offline Nick

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2012, 07:43:13 AM »
What...did God answer?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline jetson

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2012, 07:51:23 AM »
Welcome.  Go out to the various topics on this forum, and explain why God won't heal amputees.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2012, 08:03:51 AM »
I am an atheist turned theist .....I was brought up as an atheist, always hated religion(reason- Different crimes happening but God not listening) and never was curious about it. But now I am.

Welcome to the site!

I'm intrigued by yout conversion from atheist to theist.  Like Nick says - did your god suddenly start listening?  Or did you change your mind as to why a behaviour that you previously thought was bad, was now good?

Presumably the world, and your god's actions, have not changed, so all that can have changed is either your understanding of his actions, or your judgement of the morality of those actions - I'm interested to know which.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline ungod

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2012, 09:09:53 AM »
I am an atheist turned theist and looking for reasons to turn atheist/theist.

I was brought up as an atheist, always hated religion(reason- Different crimes happening but God not listening) and never was curious about it. But now I am.

I am new this site and hope to find  answers/solutions.

So, with your conversion came the customary urge to go out and infect, er, convert others, and here you are, having wandered into the most resistant ward to try and practise your new found power of persuasion. I suppose if you're going to run obstacle courses, why not get the most difficult out of the way first, it can only get easier after that. Good luck with that.
So, do tell us about the benefits of conversion - the prayers you've had answered, the miracles you've received! Have the Publisher's Clearing House people come knocking on your door yet with one of those million dollar cheques? Is the prosperity Gospel working for you? No doubt you abandoned your family doctor/dentist after conversion since prayer or faith healers will take care of any ailments, and the savings in health insurance premiums can be directed to the collection plate for dispensation in good works. Say...I've always wondered - if prayer works, why the collection plate?

 
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2012, 10:18:54 AM »
I am an atheist turned theist and looking for reasons to turn atheist/theist.

I was brought up as an atheist, always hated religion(reason- Different crimes happening but God not listening) and never was curious about it. But now I am.

I am new this site and hope to find  answers/solutions.

welcome to the forum.  I'm curious, you've turned into what kind of theist? 
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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2012, 05:55:53 PM »
Welcome!!

If youre looking for reasons to turn atheist again youre in the right spot. But remember its REASON, if you use that you should be okay.
I too am interested in what turned you theist.

Offline Emily

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2012, 06:06:15 PM »
Welcome to the forum! Enjoy yourself.

So, what made you become a theist? What brand of theism do you follow? What would convince you to disbelieve in the god of your brand of theism?

Do you worship this deity? Do you bow down in prayer to it? Do you believe it is acting in our world today? What are some of its characteristics?

How about sharing your testimony here and explain what caused you to believe in this deity.

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Offline freakygin

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2012, 09:49:43 PM »
When an Atheist turn into Theist

Usually, they just experienced a series of coincidence.
As we call it "Good Day".

Let's take myself for example (This story happened long time ago)
Often i'm dissapointed, because my prayer doesn't answered.
I tried to comfort myself "This is God's will, this is what's best for me"
Then, one day, i prayed at night, i wished for something, i really put my heart into it.
Suddenly, something really good is just happening to me the next day.

And then, the only logical thing i can think of is only "My prayer were answered"
So, i'm enjoying the moment, i thank God for his kindness.
It doesn't just stop there, the good thing keep happening all day.
And of course, i tried to convince myself, thinking "This can't be coincidence!"
I told some people about how lucky i am, their answer is predictable though.
"The Lord loves you"

Then i felt guilty for doubting God, i asked for God's forgiveness
"I'm sorry for my ignorance, i promise i will keep my faith to you my Lord"

When i had a Bad Day?
Of course i would try to be patient, praying and hoping the Good Day will come.
Just like that day.

Now, can you see a series of illusion i created myself?
Just because of ONE GOOD DAY.
Apparently i just forgot the fact i had dozens of Bad Day before that.
I said to myself "God is testing my patience"

I only see what i wanted to see.

EDIT:
This isn't considered as a debate right?
Coz the rules says no debate allowed.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 10:03:35 PM by freakygin »
If you argue correctly, you're never wrong..

Offline orpat

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2012, 04:25:14 AM »
Hi, my reply is late. Sorry. Haven't enuf time.

I am actually in middle-theist/atheist.

I wish to become theist because-

a)Was brought up as atheist. Got bored.

b)Was a blind atheist(Later realized, all these years was  atheist because was brought up as one. Wanted to form own opinion).

c)Became curious.

d)Was a racist.

e)Got freakin tired of fighting for survival.

f)Was unhappy(Most of my friends who are atheists are happy. I wasn't).

g)Wanted a choice rather than a compulsion.

Want to remain atheist because-

a)Believe in evolution.

b)Believe in survival of fittest.

c)Have done many things which aren't permitted in any religion.

d)Get along well with atheists than theists.

Hope this helps.

Hello Homo Sapiens

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2012, 06:57:03 AM »
I would say orpat that its not what you "wish to become" but rather where the evidence leads you. And thats what you'll find on the boards. Please remember that here, evidence, reason, and logic are paramount to anything else.

Offline orpat

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2012, 07:29:56 AM »
The reason i'm here
Hello Homo Sapiens

Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2012, 09:03:16 AM »
Hi, my reply is late. Sorry. Haven't enuf time.

I am actually in middle-theist/atheist.

I wish to become theist because-

a)Was brought up as atheist. Got bored.

b)Was a blind atheist(Later realized, all these years was  atheist because was brought up as one. Wanted to form own opinion).

c)Became curious.

d)Was a racist.

e)Got freakin tired of fighting for survival.

f)Was unhappy(Most of my friends who are atheists are happy. I wasn't).

g)Wanted a choice rather than a compulsion.

Want to remain atheist because-

a)Believe in evolution.

b)Believe in survival of fittest.

c)Have done many things which aren't permitted in any religion.

d)Get along well with atheists than theists.

Hope this helps.

Why do you consider your racism a component of your atheism?
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Offline Omen

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2012, 09:07:26 AM »
Hi, my reply is late. Sorry. Haven't enuf time.

I am actually in middle-theist/atheist.

I wish to become theist because-

a)Was brought up as atheist. Got bored.

b)Was a blind atheist(Later realized, all these years was  atheist because was brought up as one. Wanted to form own opinion).

c)Became curious.

d)Was a racist.

e)Got freakin tired of fighting for survival.

f)Was unhappy(Most of my friends who are atheists are happy. I wasn't).

g)Wanted a choice rather than a compulsion.

Want to remain atheist because-

a)Believe in evolution.

b)Believe in survival of fittest.

c)Have done many things which aren't permitted in any religion.

d)Get along well with atheists than theists.

Hope this helps.

None of this has anything to do with atheism.

What do you believe atheism to be?
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2012, 09:22:59 AM »
Why do you consider your racism a component of your atheism?

None of this has anything to do with atheism.

What do you believe atheism to be?

I am just guessing here but perhaps it's not what he thinks atheism is about but what he hopes religion can cure. Perhaps he was born with the predisposition to believe in the supernatural. On a personal and emotional level it would feel the same to him as a homosexual trying to act straight[1].
 1. Or visa versa
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Offline Omen

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2012, 10:05:31 AM »
None of this has anything to do with atheism.

What do you believe atheism to be?

I am just guessing here but perhaps it's not what he thinks atheism is about but what he hopes religion can cure. Perhaps he was born with the predisposition to believe in the supernatural. On a personal and emotional level it would feel the same to him as a homosexual trying to act straight[1].
 1. Or visa versa

I disagree, his description seems to include classic stereotypical fundamentalist beliefs about atheism.  He evokes the characterizations as if they were established truths when they are not in the form of a false dichotomy with 'belief' in an unexplained first person capital G 'god' thing.
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Online Fiji

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2012, 10:11:11 AM »
First, must mind my manners ... Hello orpat, welcome to the forum

Hi, my reply is late. Sorry. Haven't enuf time.

I am actually in middle-theist/atheist.

You might want to look up some terms, people around here love to nitpick that stuff ;)
theist doesn't just mean that you believe in some vague sort of 'beyond reality' thing, it means that you believe in one specific god with clearly identifiable attributes[1], such as 'listens to prayers' or 'heals the sick'.
So, which do you, at present believe, or are you keeping your options open?

I wish to become theist because-

a)Was brought up as atheist. Got bored.

b)Was a blind atheist(Later realized, all these years was  atheist because was brought up as one. Wanted to form own opinion).

c)Became curious.

g)Wanted a choice rather than a compulsion.

This is commendable. Don't be an atheist just because your parents are, or just because Dawkins/Hitchens/Hawking tell you so.
Investigate.
But then, you might want to say 'I want to investigate', rather than 'I wish to become theist'.
Because wishing to believe something is just as irrational as believing something because you heard it someplace. (in fact, wishing is probably MORE irrational)

d)Was a racist.

Atheism means, no belief in any gods, that's it, nothing more, nothing less. Supposed inherent superiority of this or that group of people has nothing to do with it. There is no line to be drawn from Atheism to racism.
You might want to look into your reasons for having been racist (I recommend Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond in that respect).
But if you hope to escape your racism, religion is not necessarily the place to go looking. Mormons, fe, are quite racist, precisely because of their religion.

e)Got freakin tired of fighting for survival.

How so? Were you tired of being an atheist in environment hostile to atheists?

f)Was unhappy(Most of my friends who are atheists are happy. I wasn't).

This ties in to the wishing part ... I'm unhappy[2] that my football team hasn't won a league title since 1989, but no matter how much I hope for them to win a league title, that's not going to change reality.
Do keep in mind that buying into religion often comes with a 'behave, or else'. The 'or else' might make you equally unhappy.

Want to remain atheist because-

a)Believe in evolution.

Again, atheism, the lack of belief in any god ... belief in evolution is unrelated.

b)Believe in survival of fittest.

Such an outdated term, avoid it. Conjures up too many unwarrented connotations. And, again, unrelated to atheism.

c)Have done many things which aren't permitted in any religion.

So what? If you investigate godclaims and find them to be unfounded, who cares that they go and on about bad things that would happen to you if they were right.
Suppose I told you there's an invisible hitman called Bret hiding under your bed and you have to send me $1000 through Paypal or he's going to beat you up ... would you send me the $1000?[3]

d)Get along well with atheists than theists.

Hope this helps.

Again, irrelevant. Not a requirement to be an atheist.

Do read up on stuff. Do investigate. Do use your own brain. But don't let wishful thinking push you in an undue direction.
 1. or a specific set of gods with identifiable attributes
 2. bit of a hyperbole here, it's not like I've lost all will to live because of it ;)
 3. I'm of course not averse to recieving $1000 ;)
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2012, 10:19:35 AM »
Hi, my reply is late. Sorry. Haven't enuf time.

I am actually in middle-theist/atheist.

I wish to become theist because-
Wow, you got bored  &)  and orpat, you can become a decent person without religion. Indeed, religion was used and is used to support the idea of being a racist.

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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2012, 10:19:38 AM »
I disagree, his description seems to include classic stereotypical fundamentalist beliefs about atheism.

I can see that.

Quote
He evokes the characterizations as if they were established truths...

That is curious. Especially since he claims to have been raised "atheist" by his parents. What DOES he believe atheism to be?
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Offline monkeymind

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2012, 10:25:38 AM »
I am an atheist turned theist and looking for reasons to turn atheist/theist.

I was brought up as an atheist, always hated religion(reason- Different crimes happening but God not listening) and never was curious about it. But now I am.

I am new this site and hope to find  answers/solutions.

Interesting. We hear Christians say all the time that THEY hate religion too.
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Offline Pounamu

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2012, 10:39:43 AM »
Interesting. We hear Christians say all the time that THEY hate religion too.

It means: I know you can easily convince me that any religion is bad for me, but I'm not giving up my imaginary friend!
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Offline Emily

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2012, 05:36:22 PM »
These aren't good reasons for wanting to be a theist, and none of the reasons you wish to become a theist have nothing to do with atheism.  You do sound confused and hopefully your stay at this forum will help to you understand both atheist and theism a little better.


a)Was brought up as atheist. Got bored.


Got bored with what. Becoming a theist isn't something one should do just out of boredom. It's a pretty big commitment, and depending on the type of theist you become can lead to a lot more boring situations than being an atheist can.

For example, if you become a christian or a muslim you are required by your god to attend service, and there is nothing more boring than sitting in a church hearing a pastor tell you how unworthy god thinks you are are aren't going to be spending a blissful afterlife with him because of your unworthyness, and being told that the only way to please this god is to give him constant praise. I can name hundreds of better things to do on a sunday morning or afternoon that are a lot more fun than sitting in a pew for an hour. Curing a hangover from the night before is much more fun than any church service.

Quote
b)Was a blind atheist (Later realized, all these years was  atheist because was brought up as one. Wanted to form own opinion).

It doesn't matter. So you didn't believe in god. Not everyone who doesn't believe in god calls themselves an atheist. Sure, by the very definition of the word they are, but some just don't care about t he non-existence of him and don't actively declare their disbelief. And as an atheist you can form your own opinion all you want to. There is no text book definition of the opinions that atheists should hold, like there is a believe in certain gods.

I mean, come on man. If you become a theist you no longer have your own opinion. Your opinion of this deity is shared with the other believers of that specific god you believe in. It doesn't matter if it's a god of the major religions, or some generic god. If you search hard enough you will find believers that share similar opinions as yourself. There is no original thought in theism, because its all be said before.

I mean, if you were an atheist you might come up with an idea that the more prominent atheists haven't thought of. The posters on this forum will give your their own, unique opinion, but in my history as a member here all theists regardless of belief share a similar theme.

Quote

c)Became curious.

Curiosity is a good thing. hopefully as you become curious about your theistic beliefs you will dump them when you realize they make no sense.

Quote
d)Was a racist.

I am glad your not now, but this has nothing to do with atheism at all. There are racists atheists just like there are racists theist. It has nothing to do with a belief or disbelief in a god. It only has to deal with one once being closeminded and a dick.

If you want to use theism as an excuse for not being a racist anymore then you are only deluding yourself. In my mind racism is a major problem in society. There is another major problem in society that I used to hold. I'm an atheist, and I'm also a former drug addict, but I never relied on theism to help me when I wasn't happy with my situation. It's all about being proactive and seeing everything in a new light.

As I said, I'm glad your no longer a racist. But racism has nothing to do with atheism. 

Quote
e)Got freakin tired of fighting for survival.

So did I. I took more proactive steps to survive and become dominate. I cleaned up and went to college, but its best to fight your own battles and not turn to something supernatural to do your fighting for you. There is nothing wrong with looking for help but if you simply back down from a fight you look like a pussy. Don't let people walk all over you.

Quote
f)Was unhappy(Most of my friends who are atheists are happy. I wasn't).

Sorry. Maybe you suffer from depression?!

Quote
g)Wanted a choice rather than a compulsion.

And you can chose to believe in a if god if you want too but I sure as hell hope you at least believe in your choice to worship this god. If not then you're wasting your mind being brainwashed for no other reason than to become happy with life, stop being a racist, searching for some sort of excitement, etc.

Your reasons for wanting to be a theist are very confusing. I just hope you don't make the wrong decision and believe in something blindly simply because you felt it would make your life better.

As the bible says:

 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A45&version=KJV

Or as a similar saying goes, "in ones life some rain must fall"

and,

"it can't rain all the time"

Quote
a)Believe in evolution.

I hope so. There is must more compelling evidence to support evolution than there is to support any form of a god.

Quote
c)Have done many things which aren't permitted in any religion.

And religion controls people. Pat Condell gives a good reason for not believing in a god. Just watch. You'll learn a lot:




Well, good luck in your search for a belief or non-belief to hold. I hope you make the right decision and realize that believing in a god is pretty much pointless. There is no evidence to hold a belief in a god. A belief can be used as a crutch for some, but at the same time a non-belief is much healthier.

Good luck,

-Emily
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 05:38:19 PM by Emily »
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Offline orpat

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2012, 08:19:24 AM »
Hi, I am sorry. I do not have enough time at hand to reply to all your queries. Begging pardon.

I wrote my earlier posts in a hurry, so there is supposed to be misunderstandings/misinterpretations.I would like to correct few:

When I said racism, I did not say it was because of my atheism. I feel racism is prevalent both amongst atheists and theists.


I was/am an atheist because I didn't believe in any god or infact anything supernatural.

For me, evolution and survival of fittest were the main points which I used to counter theists' beliefs.


Hello Homo Sapiens

Offline orpat

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2012, 08:28:28 AM »
As I've mentioned in my earlier post, although i considered myself an atheist, I was not quite clear about what atheism really is. Neither was i clear regarding theism.

Hence i wanted to know properly about both theism/atheism before following either one of them.

Honestly, I have always distanced myself from religions. For me it was an alien thing done by alien people. Even now i find religious places/rituals suffocating.
Hello Homo Sapiens

Offline orpat

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2012, 08:35:16 AM »
As a kid,I used to belief in stuff like ghosts etc.

In order to prove the non-existence of ghosts to my friends and to myself, i once sat for 2 hrs in a graveyard after midnight.

When i returned alive, it was the end of ghost stories for me.
Hello Homo Sapiens

Offline orpat

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2012, 08:44:19 AM »
I always like to speak up against prevalent prejudices, superstitions.

I have had instances in my life where i refused to bow down before the lord and was thrown out by people.

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2012, 08:45:49 AM »
I was/am an atheist because I didn't believe in any god or infact anything supernatural.

That's pretty much it. So, all you have to do to remain an atheist is to investigate the godclaim someone throws at you. If you find it unconvincing, voila, done, you're still atheist. If you're unsure about some claim, toss it in the forum, we'll be glad to rip it to shreds for you.

For me, evolution and survival of fittest were the main points which I used to counter theists' beliefs.

Evolution only disproves various forms of creationism though. Officially, catholics accept evolution while still believing in their god.
Science: I'll believe it when I see it
Faith: I'll see it when I believe it

Schrodinger's thunderdome! One cat enters and one MIGHT leave!

Without life, god has no meaning.

Offline orpat

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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2012, 08:51:44 AM »
As i grew up, I read about injustices in countries like china(supposed to be a country with lack of god believers).

Then i realized that maybe atheism is not that good after all.
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Re: Hi, this is me
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2012, 08:52:40 AM »
For me, evolution and survival of fittest were the main points which I used to counter theists' beliefs.

I'm sorry what?

What does evolution being true have to do with the idea of a god not existing?
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me