Author Topic: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread  (Read 13442 times)

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Offline HAL

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A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« on: February 25, 2012, 05:42:00 PM »
All comments on the debate are welcome in this thread.

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2012, 05:53:22 PM »
Bm
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline monkeymind

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2012, 05:59:10 PM »
Well, it looks like we are off to a good start. Augusto left the forum. I think it is his strategy to bore his opponent into submission.
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline RNS

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2012, 06:00:48 PM »
BM
love and truth and love of truth

Offline The Wannabe

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2012, 06:10:53 PM »
Man, this debate is taking more deliberations than the US Senate.  Is this thang happenin'?
"I would believe only in a God that knows how to Dance."  -Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline kin hell

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2012, 06:12:49 PM »
bm
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Devils Advocate

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2012, 06:13:13 PM »
Monkeymind - LOL. i think you are right. his strategy is something along the lines of getting his opponent so frustrated with the procedural aspects of the debate that the opponent cannot think straight on the substantive aspects (not that i am suggesting this would work with Lucifer, but Augusto has yet to impress me with his cognitive ability).
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2012, 07:06:42 PM »
The woo ship has arrived, and it's loaded with crazy.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Augusto

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2012, 07:16:23 PM »
Okay, both of us already posted, Lucifer first, then me, as promised with arguments and answering his first argument. I will be checking this topic as well. To get your opinions on the matter.

I want to thank the administrators and moderators for making this possible, and all the comunity for their interest.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2012, 07:18:12 PM »
So "Wow!" is proof of a god.

What we humans consider complex may be so simple even the universe can do it.  On it's own.

I'm disappointed. Astreja should have been in on this. She's been there, done that.

What is the original source of all this "omni" stuff. It would help to know how legit that first list of four items is.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Alzael

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2012, 07:18:52 PM »
Wow, he sure didn't waste any time. He goes right to several unproven and unsupported assumptions within the first few sentences.

I don't think I've ever seen a theist abandon any pretense of making a logical argument quite that quickly. It's almost impressive.

I knew he wouldn't last long, but he pretty much lost in the first two sentences.
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Offline HAL

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2012, 07:25:07 PM »
I will be checking this topic as well. To get your opinions on the matter.

If you want to check here that's fine, but I hope you have a thick skin. Just be aware that you might not like what you read.

Offline Augusto

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2012, 07:26:54 PM »
Yeap, I'm okay with that, maybe I'll also find some serious posts too (I hope).

Offline Alzael

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2012, 07:30:11 PM »
Yeap, I'm okay with that, maybe I'll also find some serious posts too (I hope).

My post was entirely serious. Your argument failed epically right from the get go.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline Augusto

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2012, 07:31:58 PM »
Okay, let's see how it can be proven that my argument failed.

Offline Alzael

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2012, 07:38:58 PM »
Okay, let's see how it can be proven that my argument failed.

I already did. Read the post.

Your entire argument is based on an assumption. You have done nothing to show that those four attributes are valid. Thus they can be easily discarded.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline Augusto

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2012, 07:41:08 PM »
So, you accept they're valid? cool ;)

I have several more, and also I invalidated Lucifer's arguments. So I dont see how we are losing (God and I) because according to the rules he MUST:
1) Disprove my argument (if he can).
2) Offer a new argument for the atheist side.
3) Refute my argument against his.

If he cannot disprove my argument, and he cannot reinforce his argument (which was disproved by me), I have one argument on favor that God is likely to exist and he have zero, then he will have to come up with another argument... hopefully it wont be as easy to destroy as this first one.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 07:44:17 PM by Augusto »

Offline bertatberts

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2012, 07:45:55 PM »
Okay, let's see how it can be proven that my argument failed.
It might not be proven beyond a doubt, but it most certainly can be shown to be logically inconsistent, or just simply special pleading.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2012, 07:48:26 PM »
I assume we won't be hearing from Lucifer any more today, given that it is almost 2:00 AM where he lives. That'll give us all time to take this in.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Alzael

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2012, 07:49:30 PM »
So, you accept they're valid? cool ;)

I have several more, and also I invalidated Lucifer's arguments. So I dont see how we are losing (God and I) because according to the rules he MUST:
1) Disprove my argument (if he can).
2) Offer a new argument for the atheist side.
3) Refute my argument against his.

If he cannot disprove my argument, and he cannot reinforce his argument (which was disproved by me), I have one argument on favor that God is likely to exist and he have zero, then he will have to come up with another argument... hopefully it wont be as easy to destroy as this first one.

No. You have yet to make a logically consistent argument. Unless you can provide a valid reason for your usage of those four attributes your argument fails right out the gate.

There's nothing for him to disprove because the entire foundation of your argument is a fallacy. You have to make a valid case first for him to disprove or argue against.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline Tero

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2012, 07:50:31 PM »
Augusto says the Bible is not to be taken as the proof. If the Bible is not the proof, then each person should be able to sense God. Yet very few people can describe this and most say they have a "feeling." Feelings are not proof as far as I know. No messages came either, bringing us useful facts from God.

Offline Grogs

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2012, 07:51:04 PM »
I notice that large portions of Augusto's arguments seem to be a cut and paste job. See here for example. Even if he's the person that wrote that originally, he should at least acknowledge that he's copying something that he previously posted. If it's not his, that's what we call plagiarism. :police:

Offline Augusto

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2012, 07:54:05 PM »
No. You have yet to make a logically consistent argument. Unless you can provide a valid reason for your usage of those four attributes your argument fails right out the gate.

There's nothing for him to disprove because the entire foundation of your argument is a fallacy. You have to make a valid case first for him to disprove or argue against.

If there is "something" with such properties, one can also conclude that God's existence is totally possible.

About some content taken from other sources, I had a mess of links, probably forgot to include that one link, I already fixed that, now what's that post in the debate room that is not from Lucifer but from kin hell?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 08:00:08 PM by Augusto »

Offline kin hell

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2012, 07:58:06 PM »
I notice that large portions of Augusto's arguments seem to be a cut and paste job. See here for example. Even if he's the person that wrote that originally, he should at least acknowledge that he's copying something that he previously posted. If it's not his, that's what we call plagiarism. :police:


Just found this Grogs    I had just posted an example straight to the debate thread (as indication to all concerned) not realising that you were here commenting on the same observation.

"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Augusto

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2012, 08:01:55 PM »
Maybe you should just post in here, doesn't it look hypocrite to point at a minor flaw in my post by irrupting in the debate? please don't do that. There's no need, there are several moderators online, there is PM and there is this topic.

Offline Grogs

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2012, 08:05:54 PM »
No. You have yet to make a logically consistent argument. Unless you can provide a valid reason for your usage of those four attributes your argument fails right out the gate.

There's nothing for him to disprove because the entire foundation of your argument is a fallacy. You have to make a valid case first for him to disprove or argue against.

If there is "something" with such properties, one can also conclude that God's existence is totally possible.

About some content taken from other sources, I had a mess of links, probably forgot to include that one link, I already fixed that, now what's that post in the debate room that is not from Lucifer but from kin hell?

That's your whole argument, dude! You just cut and paste it in there. It sounds like maybe we should just get "Lord Anthony Horton" in here to do the debate since you're just presenting his ideas rather than your own.


Just found this Grogs    I had just posted an example straight to the debate thread (as indication to all concerned) not realising that you were here commenting on the same observation.

I was surprised nobody else had noticed when I posted, actually.

Offline Emily

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2012, 08:10:33 PM »
It looks like he did cite his sources, but not well. There are two links in his debate towards the middle of the thread to where he got his info from (at least what I've seen).

Augusto, how about using the footnote function to better clarify that you used a link or idea from an external source.

EDIt: Shit, turns out he might've edited those links in after he got busted for plagiarizing.

But whatever, the footnote button is this, . If you could use it in the future it will make this a lot easier for you.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 08:16:06 PM by Emily »
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Offline Augusto

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2012, 08:14:05 PM »
So Grog, you're implying Lucifer discovered his argument by himself? cool... let's see what else he discovered, and good luck on bringing Lord Anthony Horton in here, and good luck at disproving him, while so far neither of you seem able to disprove my very first argument.

Also, a note for those who want to meditate: This is not supposed to be your war, more likely atheists should be critical, and driven to follow reason instead of a religious group.

What if I destroy all of Lucifer's arguments? would you still be atheists? would you deny the weight of any argument to sustain yours? honor the atheist position by following reason, because without that, you're a religion without god(s) and without rules, that is the worst religion ever.

The point of the debate is to expose all the reasons we know of to support both positions, and to determine which one have more weight. Atheists should, by concept, follow the position with more weight. This is the logical thing to do, otherwise you're a fanatic, and I should be posting on a forum of whatever religion to explain them why it is false (and would get the same hate and bashing I'm getting here).

The invitation is to THINK. No brainwashing here, just reason.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 08:19:30 PM by Augusto »

Offline Emily

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Re: A Debate: Augusto vs. Lucifer - Commentary Thread
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2012, 08:19:56 PM »
For some reason I thought the debate was going to be about a specific god, not some generic dipshit who might exist somewhere in the universe.

Which god are you going to try to prove to exist, Augusto?
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.