Author Topic: Probabilities of God's existence debate  (Read 57012 times)

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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #870 on: April 30, 2014, 08:27:14 PM »
Lukvance, I think you have it exactly right: gods exist in the same way that love exists. Love is a real emotion, scientists have located the places in the brain that are activated when someone is in love, and are even beginning to figure out who falls in love with who.
Good. That closes the thread :) God exist (as much as love)
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #871 on: April 30, 2014, 08:50:37 PM »
Lukvance, I think you have it exactly right: gods exist in the same way that love exists. Love is a real emotion, scientists have located the places in the brain that are activated when someone is in love, and are even beginning to figure out who falls in love with who.
Good. That closes the thread :) God exist (as much as love)
And space coyotes.
And Vishnu.
And Jedi.
And time-traveling phone booths[1].
And psychic powers.
And the global consciousness.

I really don't think you get the implication of your statement Lukvance.  You really don't.
 1. Take your preferred reference[1].
 1. Excellent!  Bogus!
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #872 on: April 30, 2014, 11:46:10 PM »
Lukvance, I think you have it exactly right: gods exist in the same way that love exists. Love is a real emotion, scientists have located the places in the brain that are activated when someone is in love, and are even beginning to figure out who falls in love with who.
Good. That closes the thread :) God exist (as much as love)

Yes, gods exist, but only inside of people's brains. Along with everything else made up and impossible that can be imagined, like an enormous bowl of pistachio ice cream large enough to fill the Grand Canyon. That is not real, outside of people's brains. Neither is love, and neither are gods--without people, they cannot exist.

Is that clear? Do you get my point? Or did you just skip over everything I wrote in that long post after the first paragraph?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #873 on: May 01, 2014, 05:18:13 AM »
Lukvance, I think you have it exactly right: gods exist in the same way that love exists. Love is a real emotion, scientists have located the places in the brain that are activated when someone is in love, and are even beginning to figure out who falls in love with who.
Good. That closes the thread :) God exist (as much as love)
"Debating a close-minded Christian is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory."
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline epidemic

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #874 on: May 01, 2014, 07:40:02 AM »
Lukvance, I think you have it exactly right: gods exist in the same way that love exists. Love is a real emotion, scientists have located the places in the brain that are activated when someone is in love, and are even beginning to figure out who falls in love with who.
Good. That closes the thread :) God exist (as much as love)

Love exists,  this is true!  Love is a chemical reaction, but like everything else in your personality it can be changed by proper administration of chemicals or surgically modifying the brain.

If there were truely a soul wouldn't it be impossible to physically change the essense of your being?

Injury to the frontal lobe of the brain can take a god loving / fearing bible thumper and make them a child rapist, atheist. 

That means your essence is your physical being a completely biochemical process.  Love is an addiction caused by the release of endorphines, while in the presence of someone you have been trained by life to release these chemicals.

In all likelihood I could make you an atheist, amoral, murderer given enough time training, surgery, chemicals and knowledge of the human mind.  No magic required.


A better question with a morally ambiguous question like "would you kill your kids if god demanded it" would be what if this was a test not of your faith and loyalty but a test of your morals in the face of an ambiguous task.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 07:50:22 AM by epidemic »

Offline Ataraxia

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #875 on: May 01, 2014, 08:34:45 AM »
Lukvance, I think you have it exactly right: gods exist in the same way that love exists. Love is a real emotion, scientists have located the places in the brain that are activated when someone is in love, and are even beginning to figure out who falls in love with who.
Good. That closes the thread :) God exist (as much as love)

God exists in the minds of those whose brains have escaped them.
If you keep on living your life as though your purpose is to be saved and go to heaven, you are missing the heaven that you are living in right now.

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #876 on: May 01, 2014, 04:14:49 PM »
I remember telling You :
I'm trying to prove to you (all) that nothing is real or everything is real.
That if you think that Love is real then God is real.

You can debate this if you want I'm open to questions! :)

Right now you all agree with me? Or some, still disagree?

I started by defining "exist" on my first post and did not remember change any of that definition afterward.
Usually the debate I have with people IRL on that subject diverge on what "exist" mean.
For me, something exist as soon as it is named and has a definition. (something without a name does not exist)
[...]
I'd be happy to read your thoughts and what exist and what does not. (Please be more on what exist than the other one, it's too easy to say "it doesn't exist!")

I then gave definition of "real" in relation do my happiness. I don't remember changing that definition either.
In your daily life, how do you differentiate between "real" and real?  DO you even make the distinction? 

I make some kind of distinction. We could call them degrees of reality. I tend to chose what is of higher degree based on the aftermath. (what will make me happier)

I asked you to define those words and I don't remember any of you sticking with one of their definition. You each seems to have your own. Taking my answer to ones definition of real/exist and applying this answer to your definition (witch are not the same) and telling me that I am not making any sense.

Why am I the one redefining words to mean whatever I want them to mean?
Why am I the pigeon?
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #877 on: May 02, 2014, 03:03:38 AM »
Why am I the pigeon?

You are the pigeon, because you bring nothing to the table besides ancient philosophy and word games.

Show me a photo of God when he talks to you, and you will be a real player.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #878 on: May 02, 2014, 04:17:45 AM »
Good. That closes the thread, God exist (as much as love)....
....and as much as Gandalf.  I really don't believe anyone has been denying that.

And as I've been thinking all along...."so what"?  If god exists no more than Gandalf, no more than "love", then it is entirely irrelevant whether I "believe" in god - or love, or Gandalf - because it only has existence as a concept, as a predetermined chemical force, or as whatever characteristics I choose to assign to it.

As you say, that closes the thread.  Quite right too.

But I will presume then that you will NOT in any respect be referring to "god" as an entity with physical and independant existence outside of that which Gandalf has, or that the concepts of "love" has.  Glad we've sorted THAT out.  No need for me to convert, or pray, or believe - thansk for clarifying.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #879 on: May 02, 2014, 04:25:42 AM »
No, I don't think you've sorted it out. He will just wipe his memory after this post, and start with some other shit.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #880 on: May 05, 2014, 05:18:41 PM »
Good. That closes the thread, God exist (as much as love)....
....and as much as Gandalf.  I really don't believe anyone has been denying that.

And as I've been thinking all along...."so what"?  If god exists no more than Gandalf, no more than "love", then it is entirely irrelevant whether I "believe" in god - or love, or Gandalf - because it only has existence as a concept, as a predetermined chemical force, or as whatever characteristics I choose to assign to it.

As you say, that closes the thread.  Quite right too.

But I will presume then that you will NOT in any respect be referring to "god" as an entity with physical and independant existence outside of that which Gandalf has, or that the concepts of "love" has.  Glad we've sorted THAT out.  No need for me to convert, or pray, or believe - thansk for clarifying.
The probability of God's existence is as high as the probability of Love's existence. If you don't believe in love you won't believe in God. And that's ok.
You will be less happy if you don't believe than if you do :)
And that's how it is relevant.

The power of Love
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Offline G-Roll

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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #882 on: May 05, 2014, 05:51:19 PM »
I remember telling You :
I'm trying to prove to you (all) that nothing is real or everything is real.
That if you think that Love is real then God is real.

You can debate this if you want I'm open to questions! :)

Right now you all agree with me? Or some, still disagree?
We all agree with you that you are trying to prove something.

You are saying that as love exists, then God must exist.

You do not explain why it is that if unicorns do not exist, then God does not exist.

You are also saying that any feeling we have proves the existence of God. This is a non-sequtur.

I doubt even Descartes would have gone that far.

Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #883 on: May 05, 2014, 06:02:29 PM »
If I feel love, then god.

If I feel hate, then.....what?

And, if Muslims, Sikhs, Mormons, JW's, Wiccans, Scientologists, Pagans, Santeristas and Hindus also feel love and attest that it is real, then.....what?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline shnozzola

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #884 on: May 05, 2014, 06:25:15 PM »
If you don't believe in love you won't believe in God.

A bit presumptuous to tell me that.
 
From wiki:
Quote
Love is a variety of different feelings, states, and attitudes that ranges from interpersonal affection ("I love my mother") to pleasure ("I loved that meal").  It can refer to an emotion of a strong attraction and personal attachment.[1] It can also be a virtue representing human kindness, compassion, and affection—"the unselfish loyal and benevolent concern for the good of another".[2] It may also describe compassionate and affectionate actions towards other humans, one's self or animals.
Luk, that is a definition of love I believe in.  Why do we need to modify a definition of god to fit the definition of love?  The word "love" works as it is.  I remember in elementary Sunday school, probably 7 years old, that saying "god is love" felt about right - I carved it in a piece of wood.  Somehow seeing that not everyone defines god the way you do has made me get past that.   Did you read about Boko Haram (western education is a sin) kidnapping over 100 young girls in Nigeria?  Do you think "Allah is love" is at the root of their actions?

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2014/05/boko-haram-claims-nigeria-abductions-201455134957975542.html
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 06:26:56 PM by shnozzola »
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #885 on: May 05, 2014, 08:14:15 PM »
Why do we need to modify a definition of god to fit the definition of love?
I think we need to do such a thing.
Did you read about Boko Haram (western education is a sin) kidnapping over 100 young girls in Nigeria?  Do you think "Allah is love" is at the root of their actions?
No. And I don't really care as it is not the subject I was discussing here.
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #886 on: May 05, 2014, 08:17:30 PM »
If I feel love, then god.

If I feel hate, then.....what?

And, if Muslims, Sikhs, Mormons, JW's, Wiccans, Scientologists, Pagans, Santeristas and Hindus also feel love and attest that it is real, then.....what?
I don't know and that is not what we are discussing here.
I believe that without Love you won't be able to find God. It does NOT mean that with love you will automatically find him.
So "If i feel love then God" is FALSE and so are all the other question you asked. (at least, if you ask me. Some might give you other answers but I don't see how it will help you define the probability of God's existence)
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #887 on: May 05, 2014, 08:22:42 PM »
We all agree with you that you are trying to prove something.

You are saying that as love exists, then God must exist.

You do not explain why it is that if unicorns do not exist, then God does not exist.

You are also saying that any feeling we have proves the existence of God. This is a non-sequtur.

I doubt even Descartes would have gone that far.

I don't understand. Do you agree with me or not? What is your point? Do you have a definition for "exist"? (with a example)
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #888 on: May 05, 2014, 09:17:37 PM »
Lukvance, don't you also agree that without love you will not be able to find Slartibartfast? I propose that is so. Since love exists, so does Slartibartfast. As soon as you understand love, you will also find Slartibartfast.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #889 on: May 05, 2014, 11:10:01 PM »
Lukvance, don't you also agree that without love you will not be able to find Slartibartfast?

I disagree. What is Slartibartfast?
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 11:12:07 PM by Lukvance »
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #890 on: May 06, 2014, 12:29:41 AM »
I have told you that Slartibartfast exists. You cannot say that you do not know. :angel:
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Astreja

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #891 on: May 06, 2014, 02:39:39 AM »
I have told you that Slartibartfast exists. You cannot say that you do not know. :angel:

The fjords exist; therefore, Slartibartfast.[1]

I'm not sure whom to blame for lutefisk, however.
 1. Argumentum ad Hitchhikerum Norwegium
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Offline Boots

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #892 on: May 06, 2014, 08:11:11 AM »
I'm not sure whom to blame for lutefisk, however.

 :o

Who thinks of this stuff?!?!  "Gee, let's soak fish in lye for 2 days then eat it!!"

Sounds kinda fishy--and that's no lye.
It's one of the reasons I'm an atheist today.  I decided to take my religion seriously, and that's when it started to fall apart for me.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #893 on: May 06, 2014, 10:05:36 AM »
I've seen lutefisk, but I still can't believe it. :o
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #894 on: May 06, 2014, 11:44:22 AM »
I have told you that Slartibartfast exists. You cannot say that you do not know. :angel:
Could you answer the question? What is Slartibartfast ?
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Online wheels5894

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #895 on: May 06, 2014, 12:29:43 PM »
I have told you that Slartibartfast exists. You cannot say that you do not know. :angel:
Could you answer the question? What is Slartibartfast ?

Try this
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline G-Roll

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #896 on: May 06, 2014, 12:34:35 PM »
^
how did you do that??????????

Are you a magician?

Offline epidemic

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #897 on: May 06, 2014, 12:55:55 PM »
I have told you that Slartibartfast exists. You cannot say that you do not know. :angel:
Could you answer the question? What is Slartibartfast ?

I don't know what it is but you better pay attention to it because it exists and it has strict rules that must be followed.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #898 on: May 07, 2014, 07:44:34 AM »
I will presume then that you will NOT in any respect be referring to "god" as an entity with physical and independant existence outside of that which Gandalf has, or that the concepts of "love" has.  Glad we've sorted THAT out.  No need for me to convert, or pray, or believe - thansk for clarifying.
The probability of God's existence is as high as the probability of Love's existence.

Show your working.  Anecdotally, I have ecperienced love, I have not experienced "god".

If you don't believe in love you won't believe in God.

If you don't believe in Gandalf, you won't believe in love.  I can link unrelated concepts too, but I'm not sure what that proves?

You will be less happy if you don't believe than if you do

Again - show your working.  I am happy now.  Demonstrate how I am guaranteed to be happier if I believe, please.

The power of Love

The power of Gandalf.

It's a wonderful set of dodges, but completely avoided the statement I was making, in the concept of "existence" you have been using in this thread.  I'll repeat, in the small hope you will actually directly address what I am saying.

"You will NOT (in future) in any respect be referring to "god" as an entity with physical and independant existence outside of that which Gandalf has, or that the concepts of "love" has.".  Yes or no?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?