Author Topic: Probabilities of God's existence debate  (Read 41002 times)

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Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #841 on: April 10, 2014, 05:58:20 PM »
Let me get this straight, did Lukvance just say that non-human animals pray to a god?
Let me get this straight, I wasn't answering to you. Only to people who believe that dogs knows about Love. And that, mister, is the fuck.

I have a feeling that someone will be angry. You are not paying attention to reality.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #842 on: April 10, 2014, 06:09:02 PM »
Uhhh. Yeah. I am not a mister.....

Dogs do know about love. And they do not pray to any gods. If you don't know that, I guess you have never had a dog. Sorry about that.  &)

I am here today partly because as an abused child, I had a dog that loved and accepted me even when there were no humans (or gods for that matter) around who did. Of course, there was Mr. Spock, too. He was a steadfast and loyal friend. ;)

I would have gone along with anyone who was nice to me-- luckily no nefarious people were around to take even more advantage of my situation. If a god had wanted to show up, that would have been the perfect time.

I would like to piggyback on Astreja's point: why didn't any gods show themselves to us when we were at our lowest, most vulnerable points? Why did we have to rely on our own strength and resilience when other people supposedly got the hand of a god to pull them up?

And don't tell us god was busy talking but we, desperate and needy for help, were still refusing to listen. :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nam

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #843 on: April 10, 2014, 06:51:21 PM »
Uhhh. Yeah. I am not a mister.....

Dogs do know about love. And they do not pray to any gods. If you don't know that, I guess you have never had a dog. Sorry about that.  &)

I am here today partly because as an abused child, I had a dog that loved and accepted me even when there were no humans (or gods for that matter) around who did. Of course, there was Mr. Spock, too. He was a steadfast and loyal friend. ;)

I would have gone along with anyone who was nice to me-- luckily no nefarious people were around to take even more advantage of my situation. If a god had wanted to show up, that would have been the perfect time.

I would like to piggyback on Astreja's point: why didn't any gods show themselves to us when we were at our lowest, most vulnerable points? Why did we have to rely on our own strength and resilience when other people supposedly got the hand of a god to pull them up?

And don't tell us god was busy talking but we, desperate and needy for help, were still refusing to listen. :P

I always found that weird: when one's life is at one's worst the delusion seems to get stronger for some rather than weaker. I knew someone once who told me she was raped repeatedly by a loved one when she was a child and Biblegod was the strength that made her live through it. I asked her why didn't her god stop it and that's when she ceased speaking to me; as if I stabbed her through her heart for questioning such a thing.

Oh well.

I don't think it's the belief itself that is a positive or negative effect on one's decision on whether there is a god/s or not but it may have a stipulating causation of the validity of the conclusion whether positive or negative.

With me it was solely reading the KJV that made me question it's overall validity with reality rather than whether I thought Jesus was listening to me, or not. I think that's where the intellectual aspect comes into play: is it logical that my prayers to Jesus remain unanswered? Does it matter since even my pleas to those who are supposed to be my protectors to actually protect me goes silent, as well? It's the same. Both are realities, whether one lies in fiction or not they are both equal in what is an actual reality.

I think it all always stems to several factors:

  • Family. My family believes therefore I believe.
  • Community[1]. The community is ensconced in the majority of belief therefore I believe.
  • To not believe brings great negativity and hardship therefore I believe to only receive positivity for my life already exudes negativity and therefore I believe to not garner more negativity.
  • I wish to always be near my loved ones so to do so I must believe what they believe to once again be with them after death.
  • I believe because that is what I was taught[2] to believe.

Though, it may come to more, I believe it mainly comes down to those things. I don't think that "love"[3] or even aspects of origin on "morality" is very high on the list especially since religious societies show otherwise.

An opinion.

-Nam
 1. and in turn society
 2. Indoctrinated
 3. love we give not the supposed love "it" gives
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #844 on: April 10, 2014, 07:09:54 PM »
I feel the same way, growing up surrounded by other black folks who had lives as crappy as mine, but were always thanking god for this or that minor, run-of-the mill "miracle".  &)

Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #845 on: April 10, 2014, 09:24:34 PM »
Yes. So, you talked to her eh? :)

I said in my last five posts on this thread that god is a concept. You even quoted me saying it more than once. You are so occupied with fantasies, that you don't think clearly.
Yeah I don't think Lukvance comprehends what he's discussing or arguing here, or, rather, we're not arguing about the same things.

I dunno man.  I'm not sure where to go from here.  Lukvance, you get that no one is arguing or putting forth the view that the concept of god does not exist, right?

How about we use that as the starting point.

Yes, the concept of god exists.  There are many such concepts.  Presumably, you believe that one, or at least one (satisfying rules of exclusivity of course) of these concepts is actually manifest in reality.  That one, or at least one of these concepts describes something that actually is.

What is this concept, and why do you believe that it is describing something that is actually real?
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Offline Lukvance

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #846 on: April 10, 2014, 09:41:28 PM »
Quote
Yes, the concept of god exists.  There are many such concepts.  Presumably, you believe that one, or at least one (satisfying rules of exclusivity of course) of these concepts is actually manifest in reality.  That one, or at least one of these concepts describes something that actually is.
I agree to that and I would add : Atheist have a clear definition of "exist" when they say "God doesn't exist" and Love does exist".
Hopefully it is the same "exist"
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #847 on: April 10, 2014, 10:00:45 PM »
Quote
Yes, the concept of god exists.  There are many such concepts.  Presumably, you believe that one, or at least one (satisfying rules of exclusivity of course) of these concepts is actually manifest in reality.  That one, or at least one of these concepts describes something that actually is.
I agree to that and I would add : Atheist have a clear definition of "exist" when they say "God doesn't exist" and Love does exist".
Hopefully it is the same "exist"

Love, a complex and powerful emotion that manifests in a large myriad of different and unique ways?  Yes, that exists.  Many different creatures, most notably humans but others as well, appear to experience love.  Many, many different human beings describe many different aspects of love in different ways.  People even experience the qualia of love in different ways (as is expected, we are all unique people with unique biochemistries in unique environments).  Love is something that exists inside the mind, and it is something that is expressed in the external world.  The songs are right - Identifying expressions that stem from a genuine feeling of love can be tricky, but we are complex, emotional beasts.

Lukvance, does this god entity that you're describing exist in the external, objective reality that we all share?  Is it more than just a figment of your imagination and an emotional response?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #848 on: April 10, 2014, 11:37:40 PM »
Quote
Yes, the concept of god exists.  There are many such concepts.  Presumably, you believe that one, or at least one (satisfying rules of exclusivity of course) of these concepts is actually manifest in reality.  That one, or at least one of these concepts describes something that actually is.
I agree to that and I would add : Atheist have a clear definition of "exist" when they say "God doesn't exist" and Love does exist".
Hopefully it is the same "exist"

As usual, I haven't the slightest idea why you think this important. You sound like you're about to do a victory lap because someone used some of the same words you used, and you see that as a victory.

I doubt that I am the only one getting tired of you telling us that your version of the truth is obvious and that the only thing we have to do is accept it. I, for one, have better things to do than become a mindless drone, while you insist on going on and on about how being a mindless drone is the epitome of existence. No wonder we aren't communicating.

Unless you can start a little business on the side finding lost car keys for WWGHA members, you are doomed to be pretty useless around here.

Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #849 on: April 11, 2014, 03:12:48 PM »
Since Lukvance has re-defined the words "real", "exist" and "true" to mean whatever he wants, we are unlikely to get anything close to a rational conversation out of him.

Imagine you are riding in a car with a friend. Suddenly they stop in the middle of a busy highway. You, panicked, ask them why they stopped. They say there is a red stop sign in front of the car.

"WTF?" you yell, as the other cars careen around you to keep from hitting you. "There is no stop sign there!"

"Yes," they say, "it is real. I told you it existed. Now you know it exists, too." And a semi truck barrels into you, sending you both to heaven.

That is what Lukvance is doing.

After a while it is not even funny anymore.

Of course, to be fair to Lukvance, nearly all the other drivers [on the highway of life] are randomly stopping for the stop signs [gods] they think are there as well.....  :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline One Above All

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #850 on: April 11, 2014, 03:20:03 PM »
Of course, to be fair to Lukvance, nearly all the other drivers [on the highway of life] are randomly stopping for the stop signs [gods] they think are there as well.....  :P

Yeah, but their stop signs are not red, and everyone knows stop signs are red, so Lukvance's god must be true!
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline Nam

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #851 on: April 12, 2014, 03:36:25 PM »
Of course, to be fair to Lukvance, nearly all the other drivers [on the highway of life] are randomly stopping for the stop signs [gods] they think are there as well.....  :P

Yeah, but their stop signs are not red, and everyone knows stop signs are red, so Lukvance's god must be true!

I don't know, I think there's a South American country with yellow stop signs. I saw that playing that coordinates game I think pianodwarf posted here awhile back.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline One Above All

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #852 on: April 12, 2014, 04:44:21 PM »
I don't know, I think there's a South American country with yellow stop signs. I saw that playing that coordinates game I think pianodwarf posted here awhile back.

Yeah, well... they're wrong. Everyone knows red means stop. Didn't you watch the first Hellboy movie?

-Nam

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The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Nam

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #853 on: April 12, 2014, 10:45:14 PM »
I don't know, I think there's a South American country with yellow stop signs. I saw that playing that coordinates game I think pianodwarf posted here awhile back.

Yeah, well... they're wrong. Everyone knows red means stop. Didn't you watch the first Hellboy movie?

-Nam

-One

What if you're colorblind? Red means nothing then, no?

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline One Above All

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #854 on: April 13, 2014, 04:45:35 AM »
What if you're colorblind? Red means nothing then, no?

That's why all atheists are colorblind. They need to be healed by DA LAWD so they can see the colors again and accept The TruthTM.

-Nam

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The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #855 on: April 13, 2014, 05:22:11 AM »
I kept going from last to first page, second last to second first and was getting into the thread. can someone tell if augusto is still posting or where in the thread he dropped out.
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #856 on: April 13, 2014, 05:26:15 AM »
I kept going from last to first page, second last to second first and was getting into the thread. can someone tell if augusto is still posting or where in the thread he dropped out.

Haven't seen or heard from him in a long time. In fact, I think this is the first time I've heard his name in several months.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Nam

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #857 on: April 13, 2014, 05:41:26 AM »
I kept going from last to first page, second last to second first and was getting into the thread. can someone tell if augusto is still posting or where in the thread he dropped out.

Haven't seen or heard from him in a long time. In fact, I think this is the first time I've heard his name in several months.

You heard about August, July right behind.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #858 on: April 17, 2014, 02:48:46 AM »
due to the lack of effect this "god" character has on my life, it is perfectly reasonable (by your argument) for me to place it on a level of reality alongside Voldemort and Gandalf, two characters that I have equal experience with, in that both they and "god" are written constructs from the imagination that I have never experienced in reality.
Yes! Exactly. What I want to prove here is that "God does not exist" is not a true sentence. And that even if you believe that God is as real as Voldemort, he still exist.

And?  So what if god exists at the same level as Gandalf?  Everyone here has agreed all along that they have no problem with that statement.  So I'm not sure what exactly it is you want to "prove" other than a semantic point of no interest to anyone but yourself?

"God does not exist other than a fictional charatcer".  Would you prefer if I said that every time?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #859 on: April 19, 2014, 10:17:01 AM »
TANGENT ALERT - The post may not fit in to the current conversation but it fits the title of this thread.

This argument that I read in 501 Things You Should Have Learned About Philosophy has got me befuddled. (Which is not really that difficult to do.  :P

Quote
Anselm of Canterbury outlined a proof of God that still puzzles philosophers to this day.  Known as the ontological proof it has the following form:
     
     1.  God is "that than which nothing greater can be conceived."

     2.  God exists only in the mind or God exists in the mind and in reality.

     3.  Things that exist in the mind and reality are greater than things that exist only in the mind.

     4.  If God exists only in the mind then it is possible to conceive of something that is greater  than God - namely, something that exists in the mind and reality.  However, God is "that than which nothing greater can be conceived."  Therefore, God cannot exist only in the mind.

     5.  It follows, then, that God exists - both in the mind and in reality.

This is from Anselm's work Proslogian which describes how god became self eveident to him.

Well, it doesn't make him self-evident to me.  I guess my sticky point is how can he state that god is "that than which nothing greater can be conceived"?  Says who?  Show me the money.

Maybe those of you who have more knowledge of philosophy can explain this to me.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #860 on: April 19, 2014, 10:51:16 AM »
TANGENT ALERT - The post may not fit in to the current conversation but it fits the title of this thread.

This argument that I read in 501 Things You Should Have Learned About Philosophy has got me befuddled. (Which is not really that difficult to do.  :P

Quote
Anselm of Canterbury outlined a proof of God that still puzzles philosophers to this day.  Known as the ontological proof it has the following form:
     
     1.  God is "that than which nothing greater can be conceived."

     2.  God exists only in the mind or God exists in the mind and in reality.

     3.  Things that exist in the mind and reality are greater than things that exist only in the mind.

     4.  If God exists only in the mind then it is possible to conceive of something that is greater  than God - namely, something that exists in the mind and reality.  However, God is "that than which nothing greater can be conceived."  Therefore, God cannot exist only in the mind.

     5.  It follows, then, that God exists - both in the mind and in reality.

This is from Anselm's work Proslogian which describes how god became self eveident to him.

Well, it doesn't make him self-evident to me.  I guess my sticky point is how can he state that god is "that than which nothing greater can be conceived"?  Says who?  Show me the money.

Maybe those of you who have more knowledge of philosophy can explain this to me.

It is called theistic thinking, that is you think of the answer you want and don't worry how to get to it.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #861 on: April 19, 2014, 03:00:09 PM »
Says who?  Show me the money.

That is exactly why Anselm doesn't puzzle philosophers today.  Essentially, Anselm tried to define god into existence.
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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #862 on: April 20, 2014, 04:26:05 PM »
Says who?  Show me the money.

That is exactly why Anselm doesn't puzzle philosophers today.  Essentially, Anselm tried to define god into existence.

So sort of like I think, therefore, I am but instead blah blah blah, therefore, god.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #863 on: April 20, 2014, 09:02:32 PM »
Not quite.  I think therefore I am is kinda profound.  Anselm's was just clever word games. Anselm's argument is essentially:
1. God is the greatest thing
2. Existing is greater than not existing.
3. If god did not exist, then god would not be the greatest.
4. So god must exist!

The assumption is built (snuck) into the definition at step 1 and 2.  After that, it is just a matter of dressing it up. Kids play these sorts of games. 

I was disappointed to hear this on NPR on Friday.  They had some German sweinhund "scientist" who wrote a book arguing for god.  At the intro he said Anselm continued to puzzle philosophers today.  Anselm only impresses noobs and believers.  The whole piece made me so mad I just about punched the radio.  Mrs screwtape started to think I was a maniac.


edit: the "Scientist" was not german, he was israeli. 
link: http://www.sciencefriday.com/segment/04/18/2014/amir-aczel-why-science-does-not-disprove-god.html
His argument were so poor and so rote, anyone here would have shredded his arguments in under 2 minutes. One commenter called in, wrecked his argument and suggested the book was pandering and the stuff of the Templeton prize.

a review of the piece:
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/04/20/more-atheist-bashing-at-salon/
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 08:55:36 AM by screwtape »
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #864 on: April 21, 2014, 05:47:03 AM »
At the intro he said Anselm continued to puzzle philosophers today.  Anselm only impresses noobs and believers.

Indeed.  The only reason that the ontological argument continues to carry weight today is that its refutation is somewhat more obscure than most other arguments, such as the first cause argument.  You probably already know this, but just to review briefly for those who don't: existence is not a quality, therefore having it or not having it cannot make something "greater" (even if that term were clearly defined, which it isn't).

For example.  In your imagination, picture a horse.  Now picture that its coat is white; can you legitimately say that you have added a white coat to it?  Yes.  Now imagine that it has a horn; can you legitimately say that you have added a horn to it (making it a unicorn)?  Yes.  Now imagine that it goes to college and graduates; can you legitimately say that you have added an education to it?  Yes.  Now imagine that instead of being imaginary, it actually exists.  Can you legitimately say that you have added existence to it?  No, because unlike all the other things you've added to it, existence isn't a property.

Quote
The whole piece made me so mad I just about punched the radio.  Mrs screwtape started to think I was a maniac.

I don't blame you.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #865 on: April 21, 2014, 08:56:03 AM »
correction, noted in my post:
 the "Scientist" was not german, he was israeli. 
link: http://www.sciencefriday.com/segment/04/18/2014/amir-aczel-why-science-does-not-disprove-god.html
His argument were so poor and so rote, anyone here would have shredded his arguments in under 2 minutes. One commenter called in, wrecked his argument and suggested the book was pandering and the stuff of the Templeton prize.

a review of the piece:
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/04/20/more-atheist-bashing-at-salon/
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What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #866 on: April 21, 2014, 03:06:22 PM »
That Anselm argument is an example of what I have posted about here before. Some people, especially in ancient times, thought that you could create reality with words, because words themselves had magic power. That is why the bible has god speaking the universe into existence, sorcery spells always had people saying special magic words to make things happen, and people had to say prayers to gods or else the gods would not act. Lying was a crime, and "your word was your bond". If you said something it was real.

Today we (well, those of us in the reality-based community anyway) realize that words are not magic, they are just sounds that represent things and ideas. The things and ideas represented might or might not really exist. Being able to describe or talk about something or give a definition of something does not mean that thing described, talked about or defined is real.

Lukvance, there's a call for you on the Batphone, line one.[1]
 1. Lukvance is now looking for the Batphone so he can answer it..... &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #867 on: April 30, 2014, 12:51:07 PM »
Love, a complex and powerful emotion that manifests in a large myriad of different and unique ways?  Yes, that exists.  Many different creatures, most notably humans but others as well, appear to experience love.  Many, many different human beings describe many different aspects of love in different ways.  People even experience the qualia of love in different ways (as is expected, we are all unique people with unique biochemistries in unique environments).  Love is something that exists inside the mind, and it is something that is expressed in the external world.  The songs are right - Identifying expressions that stem from a genuine feeling of love can be tricky, but we are complex, emotional beasts.

Lukvance, does this god entity that you're describing exist in the external, objective reality that we all share?  Is it more than just a figment of your imagination and an emotional response?
Yes. I believe Him to exist as much as Love exist.
God can give me complex and powerful emotions that manifests in a large myriad of different and unique ways. Many different creatures, most notably humans but others as well, appear to experience God.  Many, many different human beings describe many different aspects of God in different ways. God is something that also exists inside the mind, and it is something that is expressed in the external world.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #868 on: April 30, 2014, 04:25:27 PM »
Lukvance, I think you have it exactly right: gods exist in the same way that love exists. Love is a real emotion, scientists have located the places in the brain that are activated when someone is in love, and are even beginning to figure out who falls in love with who.[1]

But there is no free-floating love "out there" somewhere waiting to descend on the unsuspecting human like Cupid with the bow and arrow. Otherwise, love might be randomly or equally distributed in the population, depending on where the "love bug" was that day. Like, in a particular month or year, everyone in Algeria and Spain would be falling passionately in love, hooking up, and getting married like crazy. Meanwhile people in Brazil and Australia would be wondering what all the fuss was about. And then it might abruptly reverse the following year.[2]

What we do find is that babies and children in every culture who are severely neglected or abused during important developmental stages do not experience love, at least not he same way as other people in that culture. They are unable to attach to people appropriately because something is wrong in their brains--they did not get the right hormones at the right time, or whatever. Some reject or even attack family members and attach to random strangers. Not good.

Likewise, damage to the brain, dementia, and so forth can interfere with a person's ability to experience love. If someone loses their memory of their husband or wife due to brain malfunction, it is understandable that they cannot love that person anymore. How could they? They don't even recognize the person. This suggests that love does not exist independently of the brain that experiences it.

The experience of god appears to work the same way. Perhaps, like with love,  there is a developmental window for humans to get the areas of the brain that are receptive to religious belief up and running. If a child misses getting info about gods and religion into their brain during that window, it may be that much harder for religion to "take" later on.

That would also explain why most people tend to stick with the religion they learned about as a child. It makes the most sense to them-- of course it does! That was the religion that got in when the brain's "religion window" was open the widest.[3]

The exact same religion that makes such perfect sense to people who grew up in it sounds like a ridiculous, made-up, magical fairy tale or an obvious, outright scam to most people who are learn about it as adult. Consider the scorn that JW's have for Catholics, Baptists for Scientologists, Mormons for Muslims, Unitarians for Pentecostal snake handlers. And vice versa.

More evidence for this brain-god-developmental connection, and against the "god is out there waiting to get in touch with all of us" concept?

1) Religions are regionally distributed, usually the most prevalent where they were first thought up. Religions travel where the people who believe in that religion go, and no faster or slower than the people can take it.

2) Religions are unequally spread across the planet, which is what you would expect to see if religions actually came from humans who are limited by distance, communications technology and available transportation. Godly super beings, we would assume, are not stopped by mountains, deserts, oceans or language barriers.

3) Nobody has ever reported finding their exact religious belief already being practiced in a new place. Imagine when Arab Muslims first reached the west coast of Africa-- if they had found that Allah had gotten there first and the black people of Senegal already had the Quran, and were  practicing the exact same religion of Islam! But no.
 1. I just heard a TED talk by Dr. Helen Fisher on this very topic. She is a biologist who studies love, and is the science advisor for match.com.
 2. That would make an interesting science fiction story-- or reality show.
 3. Plus life experience and critical thinking skills are at their lowest...Adults are much harder to bamboozle with magic, fairy tales and so on than kids.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #869 on: April 30, 2014, 04:49:25 PM »
Yes. I believe Him to exist as much as Love exist.
God can give me complex and powerful emotions that manifests in a large myriad of different and unique ways. Many different creatures, most notably humans but others as well, appear to experience God.  Many, many different human beings describe many different aspects of God in different ways.
Yeah...things that exist only inside someone's subjective noggin will be described aspects of it differently than other subjective noggins do.  That's not unexpected.

Let's try a different approach here.  Lukvance, let's move to hypothetical land for a bit.

Hypothetically, let's say all sentient life is extinguished tomorrow.  Does love exist after that event?

Quote
God is something that also exists inside the mind, and it is something that is expressed in the external world.
I don't really understand how 'god' is expressed in the external world.  You mean like 'the message of god' is expressed in the external world?  Or more like god has influence on you, and that influence on you informs your actions in the external world?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
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