Thanks - but my statement "theists know god and atheists don't" is a statement of fact. It is not wishful thinking.
1. From a theist perspective it is a fact
2. From an atheist's perspective it is also a fact.
You are welcome. However, your statements are ipse dixit. Sure, theists may think of god as fact, but that does not make it so. Facts have to be verifiable. We can talk about the facts of, say, baking, because we where opinions differ, we can go and observe who is right and who is wrong. Not so with gods. Theists pretty much all define god so as to be impossible to verify in any way. That is the trade off they have made.
You see, once upon a time gods were thought of in the same way you and I may think of geese or clouds - obvious, tangible entities. But as people got smarter and better at sorting out the real from unreal, it became obvious that gods were in the latter category. Since so many had invested so much in gods, they could not just accept the fact that gods are imaginary. Instead they redefined them so as to be unassailable. But the trade off is, the very definition that makes them undisprovable also makes them unprovable.
So, you're fucked. You don't get to talk about facts when it comes to knowing gods. At best you can talk about blind faith and beliefs and do violence on anyone who disagrees.
As an atheist, I can tell you 100% that there are no theists who know god whether one exists or not. So you are mistaken on that count as we'll.
The fields you speak about does not tell us anything about us. For instance - I do not know what my twin brother is thinking, nor why he likes certain things that I do not. It does not tell me why he fell down and broke his leg or is so much more intelligent than me. Nor does it tell me why he is now dead and I am still alive. It does not answer why a healthy person just suddenly dies.
So the theists are saying "by looking within ourselves we can know what is really going on". Once we know what life is where it comes from where it is going we will understand all these things about ourselves. To do that we need to elevate our thinking process.
I disagree. You are speaking too broadly. When you get done to more specifics, I think all that can be explained. Additionally, looking "within yourself" answers absolutely nothing about you twin.
I think introspection is a good thing. But it has a very narrow limits to what it can achieve, and requires additional external information, particularly from the fields I mentioned.
We are talking about the "real conscious life" "in" "every human being" and these suggestions of the workings of the brain, blood, neurons does not do it justice.
No. It is fundamental to it. You cannot have a conversation about consciousness without discussing something tangible. What exactly is the "real conscious life" and why do you put it in quotes? You seem to be clouding the discussion with vagaries and ambiguity. For your own sake, you should try to avoid that.
Btw, I never mentioned blood or neurons.
If I was to ask you to show me your intelligence you would find yourself in a realm of mental stupor.
I think if I were in a realm of mental stupor, whatever that means, it would because you have obscured the point we are even talking about.
The theists are talking about something beyond mind and matter when they talk about self consciousness soul spirit etc.
Yeah, I know. I used to be a theist once myself. And the whole idea begs the question.
The self as they say is the conscious energy that is eternal and "created" (word that is limited) in the image of God(another word also limited). These things must be experienced like you know you have intelligence but you cannot whip it out and show me.
There is no reason to posit a self, as they define it, no reason for me to believe it, and no way for them to establish it as a reality.
No they cannot. Also lunatics frauds and holy men are not theists. A theist knows God. A lunatic is a lunatic, a fraud is a fraud and a holy man is a holy man.
How ever is one to tell them apart? The symptoms of each are identical...
That is just silly your lack of intelligence. So much for whipping it out.
Aw, did that strike a nerve? Poor you.
You need to prove that it does not exist to make such statement.
No, I don't. You have the burden of proof. In addition to that, you would need explain how your idea would be falsified. "Can't prove it isn't" is a failure as a method of proof. There are an infinite number of ideas you cannot prove do not exist, but it would be preposterous to believe in them.
The inner travels through what is known as the tenth door is well documented around the theists.
Yeah. Well documented. Great. Kindly provide the documentation and I will happily look at it.
