Poll

What is your religious position?

gnostic atheist - I know for certain that there are no gods.
159 (16.3%)
gnostic monotheist - I know for certain that only one specific god exists.
95 (9.8%)
gnostic polytheist - I know for certain that there is more than one god.
4 (0.4%)
gnostic pantheist - I know for certain that that everything is god.
12 (1.2%)
gnostic deist - I know for certain that there is a god that started the universe but does not actively meddle with it or us.
6 (0.6%)
agnostic atheist - I do not know for certain, but I think there are no gods.
282 (29%)
agnostic monotheist - I do not know for certain, but I think only one specific god exists.
21 (2.2%)
agnostic polytheist - I do not know for certain, but I think there is more than one god.
4 (0.4%)
agnostic pantheist - I do not know for certain, but I think that everything is god.
24 (2.5%)
agnostic deist - I do not know for certain, but I think there is a god that started the universe but does not actively meddle with it or us.
37 (3.8%)
ignostic atheist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that there are no gods.
88 (9%)
ignostic monotheist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that only one specific god exists.
2 (0.2%)
ignostic polytheist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that there is more than one god.
1 (0.1%)
ignostic pantheist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that that everything is god.
10 (1%)
ignostic deist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that there is a god that started the universe but does not actively meddle with it or us.
7 (0.7%)
apnostic atheist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess there are no gods.
38 (3.9%)
apnostic monotheist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess only one specific god exists.
1 (0.1%)
apnostic polytheist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess there is more than one god.
0 (0%)
apnostic pantheist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess that everything is god.
7 (0.7%)
apnostic deist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess there is a god that started the universe but does not actively meddle with it or us.
8 (0.8%)
Any type of henotheist - There (may be/is only) more than one god, but I think of only one specific god.
6 (0.6%)
I am a god!  [checks self in mirror and grins]
82 (8.4%)
Missionary.
30 (3.1%)
So! Many! Choices! (Karma Sutra)
50 (5.1%)

Total Members Voted: 635

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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #696 on: October 27, 2014, 11:33:33 PM »
^^^Uh. Why are you here again?  :angel:
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #697 on: October 28, 2014, 12:49:34 AM »
"I don't have to explain the symmetry of a butterfly. It requires no explanation"
meaningless

Of course it is. That was my intent. Your desire to give it meaning is causing you problems.

It is what it is. It isn't what you want it to be. Big difference.

Added: P.S. When your posts are only one word long, you sound pretty coherent.
Anyone can beat around the bush. But unless you have permission from the bush, you probably shouldn't.

Offline cloverleaf

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #698 on: October 28, 2014, 12:59:39 AM »
do you think there is a system in the universe or its all chaos?

Offline screwtape

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #699 on: October 28, 2014, 07:20:54 AM »
Hi cloverleaf

welcome to our forum.  My use of green text indicates I am acting as a moderator in this post and not participating in the discussion.

Please note the topic of this thread is "What is your religious position?" not "preach at us."  Please either state your religious position as defined in the Original Post, or make your arguments elsewhere.  Otherwise, we just have chaos here and no one wants that. 

Thanks.


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Offline BlackLight

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #700 on: November 01, 2014, 01:48:55 AM »
Agnostic atheist here. Not a gnostic because I don't think we're talking about a claim that can be known. Not an ignostic because I think the concept of a God has meaning. Not an apnostic (hey, I learned a new word!) because I do care whether or not gods exist.

I suppose I'd also be an adeist if we ever get around to inventing that word.

Offline wright

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #701 on: November 01, 2014, 01:53:55 AM »
^^^Welcome to the forum, Blacklight. Hope to see you around.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline DesuMaiden

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #702 on: July 06, 2015, 10:21:44 AM »
Whoa there is a lot of opinions to chose from. Well, I don't follow any mainstream religions, but I do have my own personal religious beliefs. I believe the Earth is alive, and we must respect the planet. We must use the planet's resources responsibly, not waste, recycle, and help other species. I guess my religion is some form of Native American animism. I worship nature. That's my religion. I believe it is possible that a supernatural realm exists, but I don't believe in it due to a lack of evidence for the said supernatural realm.

Online Defiance

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #703 on: July 06, 2015, 11:10:46 AM »
Whoa there is a lot of opinions to chose from. Well, I don't follow any mainstream religions, but I do have my own personal religious beliefs. I believe the Earth is alive, and we must respect the planet. We must use the planet's resources responsibly, not waste, recycle, and help other species. I guess my religion is some form of Native American animism. I worship nature. That's my religion. I believe it is possible that a supernatural realm exists, but I don't believe in it due to a lack of evidence for the said supernatural realm.

Why do you believe it's possible?
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Offline Nam

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #704 on: July 06, 2015, 11:48:20 AM »
Because Earth is alive, silly.

;)

-Nam
Quote from: David Garrett Arnold
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credulous allure—slowly captivated in hearts fair—
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Offline DesuMaiden

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #705 on: July 06, 2015, 01:50:45 PM »
Whoa there is a lot of opinions to chose from. Well, I don't follow any mainstream religions, but I do have my own personal religious beliefs. I believe the Earth is alive, and we must respect the planet. We must use the planet's resources responsibly, not waste, recycle, and help other species. I guess my religion is some form of Native American animism. I worship nature. That's my religion. I believe it is possible that a supernatural realm exists, but I don't believe in it due to a lack of evidence for the said supernatural realm.

Why do you believe it's possible?
Why isn't it possible? That's a better question for you.

Online One Above All

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #706 on: July 06, 2015, 01:53:31 PM »
Why isn't it possible? That's a better question for you.

No, the burden of proof is on you - the one making the positive claim. So, put up or shut up.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #707 on: July 06, 2015, 01:59:47 PM »
Whoa there is a lot of opinions to chose from. Well, I don't follow any mainstream religions, but I do have my own personal religious beliefs. I believe the Earth is alive, and we must respect the planet. We must use the planet's resources responsibly, not waste, recycle, and help other species. I guess my religion is some form of Native American animism. I worship nature. That's my religion. I believe it is possible that a supernatural realm exists, but I don't believe in it due to a lack of evidence for the said supernatural realm.

Why do you believe it's possible?
Why isn't it possible? That's a better question for you.

Welcome DesuMaiden

I know this question isn't for me, so I won't answer that part. However, keep in mind that this is a site chock full of atheists, and as peoples who don't give any serious credence to higher power theories, we are naturally curious as to why believers, be they full-blown christians or more nature-based such as yourself, believe anything.

So for those of us who do not believe, we can't see how the supernatural realm could be possible, regardless of which excuse is used. People who do believe such things are possible, whether they claim to have made pertinent observations or not, have reasons to be a bit more positive about their pipe dreams, and its always nice to hear their reasoning. Even when we disagree.

So its great that you asked that question. But it would have helped your case immensely had you also answered his. That way there could be a conversation going on, rather than this variation on the  Jeopardy theme.
Anyone can beat around the bush. But unless you have permission from the bush, you probably shouldn't.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #708 on: July 06, 2015, 03:26:51 PM »
No, the burden of proof is on you - the one making the positive claim. So, put up or shut up.
Why are you being asinine to new members?

She quite clearly said that there is a lack of evidence for supernatural realms, and while she believes it's possible that such a realm exists, it should be quite evident that she is not actually claiming that one exists (and that someone would have to provide evidence for her to accept that it does).  Therefore she is not making any claim.

Besides, you could simply have answered by saying that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence.  The absence of evidence for supernatural realms is in fact evidence of absence, at least as far as probability theory is concerned.  Failing to find evidence of something where you would expect evidence to occur decreases the probability that the something exists; while it is at least possible that a supernatural realm would leave no evidence, it is far more likely that no supernatural realm would leave no evidence.  It doesn't categorically prove it, but this is probably the best basis for not believing that a supernatural realm exists.
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Offline Nam

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #709 on: July 06, 2015, 03:52:18 PM »
Just clarify my smite: it wasn't me being a dick. Answering a question with a question is being a dick if that's the only thing being answered. Like PP said: ask your question, by all means, but at least have the audacity to answer the question posed (whether a claim, or not) and if you don't have answer then say that.

-Nam
Quote from: David Garrett Arnold
there are oceans of words aged in prayer,
against geometric lines, and cloudbeaten skies;
credulous allure—slowly captivated in hearts fair—
trees and flowers bloomed in grace upon one's eyes.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #710 on: July 06, 2015, 06:25:39 PM »
Yeah but it's still a good question in my opinion. Why isn't it possible that supernatural realms could exist?  No proofs are required to answer the question. Does the question need a new thread? I ask because now I am curious....why is it impossible for supernatural realms to exist?
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Offline Nam

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #711 on: July 06, 2015, 06:36:59 PM »
Yeah but it's still a good question in my opinion. Why isn't it possible that supernatural realms could exist?  No proofs are required to answer the question. Does the question need a new thread? I ask because now I am curious....why is it impossible for supernatural realms to exist?

Wouldn't one first need to establish that "supernatural" entities exist before finding out if their realm(s) exist, or any such realm exists?

-Nam
Quote from: David Garrett Arnold
there are oceans of words aged in prayer,
against geometric lines, and cloudbeaten skies;
credulous allure—slowly captivated in hearts fair—
trees and flowers bloomed in grace upon one's eyes.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #712 on: July 06, 2015, 06:46:20 PM »
Yeah but it's still a good question in my opinion. Why isn't it possible that supernatural realms could exist?  No proofs are required to answer the question. Does the question need a new thread? I ask because now I am curious....why is it impossible for supernatural realms to exist?

Wouldn't one first need to establish that "supernatural" entities exist before finding out if their realm(s) exist, or any such realm exists?

-Nam

I don't think so. Seems kind of backwards to me. Nobody in Europe suspected the American Indians existed. They were just going on the idea that the world was a globe and that it might be faster to get to the Indies if they sailed straight west.

I understand that the North American continent is not supernatural, nor were it's inhabitants. But how can you establish that any entity exists without first knowing where to look or accidentally stumbling upon their realm and accidentally discovering them?
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #713 on: July 06, 2015, 07:26:59 PM »
I don't know whether it is naïve or just ignorant to think that we humans are the zenith of all conscious beings in this universe. Or worse yet, the only ones. Presumably, even if not supernatural, there are life forms out there somewhere that are vastly superior to us, either physically, mentally or technologically. Presumably all three. And they may be so advanced that even if they are not actually supernatural, we would have no way to decide that, given our lack of knowledge about their various abilities and technologies. And, it may well be that they are so superior to us that we wouldn't even be noticed by them if they flew by our planet on a sightseeing tour.

So, if asked to guess, I would say that there are conscious things out there that are vastly superior to us. Supernatural or not, we would have no way of accurately deciding which it was. Natural or supernatural. So by default, we would probably treat any such beings as pretty damned superior.

Anything structurally superior to us past a certain point would therefore be functionally supernatural.

And then there could indeed be really really supernatural things out there that are beyond what science will ever be able to explain. Involving prescience, other dimensions and/or magical capabilities. Maybe all that stuff is made of dark matter or dark energy or something.

But we know nothing of any of those things now. We don't even have hints (unless the WOW! Signal was legit) about whether anything intelligent out there is real.

So I'm gonna go with what we know. Which is nothing. At least about stuff like that. But it is a very different nothing from what the fundamentalist christian nothing is. Which, ironically, is something that they prove the existence of daily.
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Offline Nam

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #714 on: July 06, 2015, 08:00:19 PM »
Yeah but it's still a good question in my opinion. Why isn't it possible that supernatural realms could exist?  No proofs are required to answer the question. Does the question need a new thread? I ask because now I am curious....why is it impossible for supernatural realms to exist?

Wouldn't one first need to establish that "supernatural" entities exist before finding out if their realm(s) exist, or any such realm exists?

-Nam

I don't think so. Seems kind of backwards to me. Nobody in Europe suspected the American Indians existed. They were just going on the idea that the world was a globe and that it might be faster to get to the Indies if they sailed straight west.

I understand that the North American continent is not supernatural, nor were it's inhabitants. But how can you establish that any entity exists without first knowing where to look or accidentally stumbling upon their realm and accidentally discovering them?

That whole ramble is nonsensical.

-Nam
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 08:02:05 PM by Nam »
Quote from: David Garrett Arnold
there are oceans of words aged in prayer,
against geometric lines, and cloudbeaten skies;
credulous allure—slowly captivated in hearts fair—
trees and flowers bloomed in grace upon one's eyes.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #715 on: July 06, 2015, 09:28:44 PM »
No evidence. That's all there is to say about supernatural stuff. If it exists, we know nothing about it. So it may as well not be there. Fun to speculate, a la Dr. Who, Harry Potter, etc. as long as you realize there is no there there. Yet.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Airyaman

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #716 on: July 06, 2015, 09:39:05 PM »
The supernatural is real. Well, as real as CGI, fables, myths and fiction would have us believe.
Jesus fulfilled many important messianic prophecies. He was a Jewish man born in Bethlehem who rode a donkey in his adult life. Hail the messiah!

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #717 on: July 07, 2015, 12:10:43 AM »
No evidence... Yet.

That sounds about right. I'm not saying we should build a system of governance or morality based on a lack of evidence but I think it's foolhardy to boldly claim that anything outside of our current observation is not possible because we haven't observed it....yet.

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Online Azdgari

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #718 on: July 07, 2015, 07:59:57 AM »
Yeah but it's still a good question in my opinion. Why isn't it possible that supernatural realms could exist?  No proofs are required to answer the question. Does the question need a new thread? I ask because now I am curious....why is it impossible for supernatural realms to exist?

It depends on what "supernatural" means.  If the realm supposedly can't be described with predictable rules, and it can affect our reality, then it's only a matter of time before it would destroy all of reality.  There's no boundary against it doing so - such a limitation would be a predictable rule, and thus naturalistic.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #719 on: July 07, 2015, 10:13:52 AM »
The discussion of "the possibility of the supernatural" is a matter for a new thread. If someone were to start that thread, I'm sure that it would take off.

This current thread is merely to state and possibly explain your religious position - nothing broader than that.

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