Author Topic: Do people really know what "give" means?  (Read 1646 times)

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Online One Above All

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #87 on: February 23, 2012, 03:54:10 PM »
Regarding your "in short" question, that has mostly to do with your psychic powers.

Regarding your other quoted explanations, they are hypotheticals.  The people in those hypotheticals have whatever thoughts you, the author, dictate them to have.  What does that have to do with the reality of how people think?

In my examples, which are situations that have happened to me and/or I have heard of, the reasons behind person A's feelings are made clear by person A himself/herself.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #88 on: February 23, 2012, 03:57:46 PM »
Made clear to you.  Yet, that's not necessarily all that reliable, as we've recently seen.  What wording did they use?  In the OP, you gave an example whereby you interpreted people talking about "their" money that they aren't giving away, to mean that they thought the money would still be theirs in some sense even after giving it away.  Which has a lot to do with your psychic powers.  I'm curious to learn more about those.
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Online One Above All

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #89 on: February 23, 2012, 04:03:22 PM »
Made clear to you.  Yet, that's not necessarily all that reliable, as we've recently seen.
<snip>

Yes, made clear to me. I asked them about it, as the very notion seemed idiotic to me, but they confirmed it. They confirmed that they felt as if their property, even once it had been given away, still belonged to them in some way and/or should be used in a way that they approved or, at best, in a way that they felt ambiguous about.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2012, 04:05:02 PM »
The snipped text was relevant.  What did they actually say?
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #91 on: February 23, 2012, 04:06:53 PM »
I did rethink the way I'm trying to explain it. I changed it to a general example where an unspecified property is given to another person, to avoid mistakes such as yours. I had also added the "In short" version to the OP, to prevent those same mistakes. Yet I keep being misunderstood. Unless you want to claim that this
In short, do most people think that they still have rights over something they gave away? Or is this a minority?
Oddly enough, I just answered this (2nd paragraph, 3rd sentence of my last reply), but I'll elaborate.  If a person actually gives something away, unless they set conditions via a contract or something similar as to the uses to which the something could be put, they can't retroactively demand that it can't be used for whatever the receiver wants.  The receiver could chop it up for firewood or whatever, and the giver wouldn't have any right to stop them.  However, the likelihood of the giver ever giving anything meaningful to the receiver again if the receiver were to use it "inappropriately" would be pretty low.  So while the receiver is under no legal obligation to listen, if they want to maintain cordial relations and possibly receive other gifts in the future, it wouldn't be a bad idea.

Quote from: Lucifer
<specific examples of a person having given gifts and then disapproving of the means snipped to conserve space>

aren't clear, then I think the problem isn't on my side.
But as I just said, the person giving the gift has the right to decide whether they'll continue giving gifts in the future.  The person receiving such a gift can do with it whatever they want, but if they rub the other person's nose in the fact that they either didn't want or couldn't use those gifts (or even if they didn't, but it was something the giver would notice), then they could probably expect not to receive further gifts.  If they're okay with that, then it's their business; if they're not, then they should listen to the other person.

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #92 on: February 23, 2012, 04:16:42 PM »
The snipped text was relevant.  What did they actually say?

No idea. I drew my conclusions on the spot (or shortly after; not sure about this part either) based on what they told me and forgot about the actual conversation afterward. I don't store many conversations in my memory (not by choice, obviously; I just don't give a crap once the conclusions have been drawn).

<snip>

Which doesn't answer my question. Does this happen in other places, yes or no? That's all I asked for. So far the majority of posts has been about my bad example rather than the clearly stated question below it.
Regardless, I have already realized the truth from the few replies that were relevant to my question, and for that I thank those who answered it.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline monkeymind

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2012, 04:26:29 PM »
I saw a movie recently with Jeff Bridges and Robin Williams.

Jeff's character gave Robin's character some money. Robin gave it away to another homeless person immediately. Jeff was pissed and went on to explain why he gave it...Robin had to explain that the guy he gave it to needed more than he.

I was down to my last 10 dollars once when a woman with a small child asked for some money so she could buy her baby some milk. I gave her my 10 without thinking twice. It was all I had and I dad no savings (in fact I was homeless myself).

I watched as the lady crossed the street and went into the HEB (grocery store) parking lot. She stopped to talk to someone in a car and the woman in the car took the child and drove off. The woman I gave the money to went in the store and came out a few minutes later with a quart of beer.  I was pissed for a couple of seconds and then I laughed pretty hard for a while after that. Silly Monkeymind! How could I have known? I wanted to help the women not the childother way around, but hey, I never let that stop me from giving to someone that was in need.

Oh yeah, this was in Austin, Texas.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 04:34:36 PM by monkeymind »
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Offline atheola

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2012, 04:58:28 PM »
Lucifer, in priciple there's not a lot to dispute about the post giving expenditures, but in real life things are not so black and white.
I've given money quite often knowing it's going to no good. It's one of our lifes compromises. I've also told people to piss off even when the need was legitimate. It so often comes whether I feel generous that day or not and most people do this.
If some drunkard hits someone up for a p
fifth and they give it to them they're hardly going to inquire as to the quality or put stipulations on white wine or red...
Years ago I used to hang out in parks with the winos and intimidation along with a good bullshit story about "baby brother" (me back in my baby faced years) often netted us a great drunk and even 3 hots and a cot from time to time..
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Offline atheola

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #95 on: February 23, 2012, 05:03:31 PM »
...innocently thinks about park winos and the fun I used to have.. :angel:
You better believe it's not butter or you'll burn in hell forever and EVER!
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #96 on: February 23, 2012, 06:04:14 PM »
Lucifer:  I feel that I answered your question adequately.  Perhaps you could elaborate as to how in particular you think I didn't answer it to your satisfaction.

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #97 on: February 23, 2012, 06:25:38 PM »
Lucifer:  I feel that I answered your question adequately.  Perhaps you could elaborate as to how in particular you think I didn't answer it to your satisfaction.

Do you know of people who believe that they still own that which they gave to someone else? All I want is a simple yes or no.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #98 on: February 23, 2012, 08:08:52 PM »
No idea. I drew my conclusions on the spot (or shortly after; not sure about this part either) based on what they told me and forgot about the actual conversation afterward. I don't store many conversations in my memory (not by choice, obviously; I just don't give a crap once the conclusions have been drawn).

Fair enough that you forgot, but have you considered that your conclusions might be flawed?  Especially since you cannot now go back and assess their words in order to confirm that your conclusions were well-founded?

Do you know of people who believe that they still own that which they gave to someone else? All I want is a simple yes or no.

I know this is to Jaime, but I want to answer it anyway.  My answer is that I don't think so, but that I can't actually know.  It seems like a bizarre idea to me, and I think it would seem equally bizarre to any of the people I know, but I have not actually checked.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 08:10:39 PM by Azdgari »
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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #99 on: February 23, 2012, 08:10:53 PM »
Fair enough that you forgot, but have you considered that your conclusions might be flawed?  Especially since you cannot now go back and assess their words in order to confirm that your conclusions were well-founded?

I always consider that my conclusions might be flawed. That's why I create these topics. To confirm them one way or the other. Even if my conclusions about the people I've spoken to are wrong, there are those who think what I think the people I've spoken to think, as evidenced by some of the replies here.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #100 on: February 23, 2012, 08:36:04 PM »
Which replies?
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #101 on: February 23, 2012, 08:36:46 PM »
Do you know of people who believe that they still own that which they gave to someone else? All I want is a simple yes or no.
Personally, I know of nobody who holds that opinion.

If it's me who's giving things away, I usually don't care what use they put it to.

Online One Above All

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #102 on: February 23, 2012, 08:47:42 PM »
Which replies?

It would appear that I had a slight memory glitch here. There are virtually no replies confirming my OP. There are, however, replies confirming that some people act as if what I concluded is correct. It's not what I expected, but it's good enough.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #103 on: February 24, 2012, 06:34:24 AM »
Do you know of people who believe that they still own that which they gave to someone else? All I want is a simple yes or no.

Yes and No.

I know of NOBODY who believes that when they give something to someone, that they can then dictate what they do with it.

I know of NOBODY who would give away money and not give a toss about the use it is put to.  If that were the case, then once you'd decided how much money you'd give to charity in a year (say), you'd just stuff it all in the first collecting bucket you saw, regardless of the cause.  You'd not try to find a cause that you liked, nor would you try to find out if that charity spent 99% of their income on their cause, or spent 99% on admin and Xmas parties for the staff.

But on the other hand I know of LOTS of people who give something to someone because they believe there was a need to be addressed, who were then upset when the thing they gave was used for a different purpose than the one they believed they were giving the gift to address. 

And I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with that.  When you are giving something away, either there is a downside for you (you give away money you needed/wanted yourself), or it was something whose loss means nothing for you.  Its only in the former case that altruism is involved, since a gift of something you don't want, need, or care about is only a polite form of trash disposal.  And its probably a good thing for the species that we DO feel miffed when our gifts are not used in the spirit they were intended. 

To give away something you need without consideration of where it is going would (in early evolution) have been the death-sentence of those particular genes: give away all your stuff to someone who will use it to destroy you?  Good idea that!  Likewise the genes that NEVER give away will die out - no reciprocality.  So the genes that survive and prosper are the ones that promote some giving, but that tend to ensure those resources are not wasted from the perspective of those giving the gift.
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