Author Topic: Do people really know what "give" means?  (Read 1775 times)

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Offline One Above All

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Do people really know what "give" means?
« on: February 21, 2012, 04:09:57 PM »
I'm not sure if this is just in my country, but it seems that people have some mental impairment when it comes to understanding the meaning of the word "give".

I've spoken to some people who claim that they don't give money to the homeless because they "know" what they're going to do with "their"[1] money.

What you give is no longer yours. It belongs to the person you're giving it to. That person could put it in a trash can two seconds later right in front of you and it'd be legal[2]. Because it's theirs.

In short, do most people think that they still have rights over something they gave away? Or is this a minority?
 1. The people I spoke to.
 2. Read: legal. Not ethical or pleasant.
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Offline atheola

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 04:38:28 PM »
I'm with you here..there are to many flat out selfish pricks who use any excuse to be pricks.
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Offline Frank

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 07:29:50 PM »
You obviously don't watch "Judge Judy" because if you did you would know that when someone gets somethong from someone else, no matter how expensive it may be, they automatically assume it was a gift and not meant to be returned or paid for.
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Offline Brakeman

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 07:44:19 PM »
I've spoken to some people who claim that they don't give money to the homeless because they "know" what they're going to do with "their"[1] money.
 1. The people I spoke to.

I think it's because you are misinterpreting the "gift." They are not wanting to increase someone's bank account, they are wanting to make a positive effect that they can see and approve of. Yes, this is more selfish I suppose, but the intention all along to give a gift of food, shelter, clothing, or some other "approved" benefit.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 07:57:31 PM by Brakeman »
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2012, 04:06:08 AM »
It's not just money. Money was just the first example I could think of.
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Offline Historicity

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 04:27:14 AM »
Not in English but certainly in Latin.

"To give money to someone" would have 2 translations into Latin.

Pecuniam ullo dare.          Dative case of ULLUS (someone).
Pecuniam ad ullum dare.   Preposition AD (to) means physical transfer.

The second one has strings attached.

In answer to your question, yes, you can give money with a proviso.

Offline sun_king

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 04:47:50 AM »
Different country, continent for me! And a different thought process.

It is only natural to wish that the giving we did ends up in a manner that is acceptable to the giver. I give something to Abel and he puts it into trash. Abdul may have used it in a manner more beneficial for him and others. So shouldn't I be giving it to Abdul? (Not talking about the case where I dont give anything to anyone because I have a rough guess that Abel may put it in trash)

And I feel that the giver has the obligation to ensure that whatever is given is not used for an offensive or destructive purpose. As an example, if I know how to do hacking, then I should be careful in giving out that knowledge. If I know what a known sympathizer may do, I am doing this world a favor by not tellim him or her about what I know.

Offline One Above All

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012, 05:03:15 AM »
It is only natural to wish that the giving we did ends up in a manner that is acceptable to the giver.

And it's only rational to understand that what you wishes mean nothing to reality. If you give something to someone, you're also giving away your influence over what you're giving. It's not yours anymore. Why can't some people understand this?

And I feel that the giver has the obligation to ensure that whatever is given is not used for an offensive or destructive purpose.

Of course, but that's why we choose what to give and whom we give it to, not complain that it's being used for offensive and/or destructive purposes afterward.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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Offline sun_king

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 05:44:45 AM »
What we wish may not always become true, no disagreement there. That is why I mentioned the need to be prudent before the giving. Our control over the matter is only up to the time of giving.

Giving, doing, believing, speaking... being prudent does help.

I have nothing to say about what transpires after the transaction!

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2012, 07:06:00 AM »
I've spoken to some people who claim that they don't give money to the homeless because they "know" what they're going to do with "their"[1] money.

What you give is no longer yours. It belongs to the person you're giving it to. That person could put it in a trash can two seconds later right in front of you and it'd be legal[2]. Because it's theirs.
 1. The people I spoke to.
 2. Read: legal. Not ethical or pleasant.

I think the point is that, while the money is still theirs (before the gift has been given), they have very firm ideas on what they want their money to be used for.  They want their money to acheive "a", and not "b" - so if they believe that handing their money to a person would acheive "b", then they decide not to give "their" money away.

That's the decision they are making - whether to direct their money towards what would (likely be) "a" rather than "b".

I agree that once you HAVE given money, you have no further right as to what happens to that money.  But until you do the giving, it is still yours.  Like, I won't give to someone collecting for the preservation of scorpions because I don't like scorpions.  If I DID give them money, they could spend it on scorpions and I'd have no say in it.  But if I don't give it, they can't do it.

But can we legitimately chastise them for not understanding "give"?  If our argument is "silly people don't know when money stops being theirs", can we then tell people what they should do with money that isn't in fact ours?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2012, 07:18:57 AM »
If our argument is "silly people don't know when money stops being theirs", can we then tell people what they should do with money that isn't in fact ours?

I don't see the purpose of your question, but I'll answer it anyway.
Yes. Because we're giving them advice, not forcing them to use their money on what we advise them to.
Note: The money thing was just an example. It's one of many situations in which people don't realize that when they give something, it's no longer theirs.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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Offline atheola

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2012, 08:18:46 AM »
There are so many scenarios for and against giving money to people that one can endlessly find excuses to allow others to literally starve or prevent starvation, but a recurring theme seems to be that ALL homeless people will just buy drugs. While this may be true of some it's hardly true of all amd even if true once you hand a stranger that $10 bill and they walk away that stranger is under no obligation to go buy food or pay rent or get a pair of used worn boots.
Once I hand ANYTHING over in this manner I'm not about to follow them and make them justify why they swallowed their pride to ask in the first place.
We make usually snap judgment calls.. Does this person seem honorable? The world has become a cynical place indeed where those willinh to give are almost viewed as low as those who might indeed buy drugs or booze with remittances....sad really.
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Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2012, 08:23:39 AM »
'Giving' means: to give something to someone else. Put something in another person's hands.
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naïve forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget."
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2012, 08:27:58 AM »
'Giving' means: to give something to someone else. Put something in another person's hands.

That would be "handing over". Giving means that the thing you're handing over becomes that person's property.
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Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2012, 08:36:52 AM »

That would be "handing over". Giving means that the thing you're handing over becomes that person's property.

So it is the same thing then. "Handing over" is giving. Give something to someone, take it back. Hand something over, take it back.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 08:38:30 AM by Samuelxcs »
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naïve forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget."
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2012, 08:38:41 AM »
So it is the same thing then.

No, it's not. You hand over something for the other person to hold. It still belongs to you. You GIVE something for the other person to OWN. It no longer belongs to you. It's theirs.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2012, 09:17:13 AM »

No, it's not. You hand over something for the other person to hold. It still belongs to you. You GIVE something for the other person to OWN. It no longer belongs to you. It's theirs.

Exactly.
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naïve forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget."
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2012, 09:24:20 AM »
Exactly.

>_>
If you're going to troll, I suggest you do it somewhere else.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2012, 09:27:41 AM »

>_>
If you're going to troll, I suggest you do it somewhere else.

It is not trolling, handing over and giving are the same thing, unless you mean the other meaning of giving.
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naïve forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget."
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Offline atheola

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2012, 09:30:58 AM »
I have several thousand hairs on my head we can split to decide this and that's just what people often do to deny others in dire need.
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2012, 09:42:56 AM »

>_>
If you're going to troll, I suggest you do it somewhere else.

It is not trolling, handing over and giving are the same thing, unless you mean the other meaning of giving.

So it is the same thing then.

No, it's not. You hand over something for the other person to hold. It still belongs to you. You GIVE something for the other person to OWN. It no longer belongs to you. It's theirs.

Exactly.

Make up your mind. And it is trolling. First you say it's the same. I prove you wrong. Then you say it isn't in a way that makes it seem as if you already knew it wasn't. I called trolling on that. Then you say it's the same again.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2012, 09:45:28 AM »

Make up your mind. And it is trolling. First you say it's the same. I prove you wrong. Then you say it isn't in a way that makes it seem as if you already knew it wasn't. I called trolling on that. Then you say it's the same again.

There ARE different meanings for some words!
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naïve forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget."
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2012, 09:46:47 AM »

Make up your mind. And it is trolling. First you say it's the same. I prove you wrong. Then you say it isn't in a way that makes it seem as if you already knew it wasn't. I called trolling on that. Then you say it's the same again.

There ARE different meanings for some words!

So now it's not the same, like I said.
And you still say you're not trolling.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2012, 09:51:28 AM »

So now it's not the same, like I said.
And you still say you're not trolling.

call it what you want. There are similarities to "handing over" and giving, but that does not mean they are completely different.
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naïve forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget."
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2012, 09:52:42 AM »

So now it's not the same, like I said.
And you still say you're not trolling.

call it what you want. There are similarities to "handing over" and giving, but that does not mean they are completely different.

If they are not the same, then they are different. You're either an idiot or a troll. Either way, do it on some other thread.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2012, 09:57:36 AM »

If they are not the same, then they are different. You're either an idiot or a troll. Either way, do it on some other thread.

I know that. I did not say if they are not the same they are NOT different. I said they are not completely different. In some situations, even if someone is giving something to someone, they can still take it back, just like they can in "handing something over" to someone.
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naïve forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget."
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2012, 09:59:02 AM »
I know that. I did not say if they are not the same they are NOT different. I said they are not completely different.


That would be "handing over". Giving means that the thing you're handing over becomes that person's property.

So it is the same thing then. "Handing over" is giving. Give something to someone, take it back. Hand something over, take it back.

In some situations, even if someone is giving something to someone, they can still take it back, just like they can in "handing something over" to someone.

Then that's not "giving", is it? At best it's "lending". Which is what you don't seem to understand.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2012, 10:00:14 AM »

Then that's not "giving", is it? At best it's "lending". Which is what you don't seem to understand.

"Lending" is just giving for a certain period of time.
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naïve forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget."
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Do people really know what "give" means?
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2012, 10:01:09 AM »
"Lending" is just giving for a certain period of time.

No, it's not. Giving is permanent. Lending is handing over for a certain period of time for the other person to use within the parameters you set.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.