Author Topic: Christians and their annoying questions  (Read 4211 times)

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2012, 06:37:44 PM »
God is glorifying his justice in the sufferings and damnation of sinful men because of their sin.

Found this quote today to counter such crap:

Quote
"If there is a God who will damn his children forever, I would rather go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an infamous tyrant. I make my choice now. I despise that doctrine. It has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men. It has been a constant pain, a perpetual terror to every good man and woman and child. It has filled the good with horror and with fear; but it has had no effect upon the infamous and base. It has wrung the hearts of the tender, it has furrowed the cheeks of the good. This doctrine never should be preached again. What right have you, sir, Mr. clergyman, you, minister of the gospel to stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and fill the future with horror and with fear? I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena."
 - Robert G. Ingersol

Sums it up for me. Suffer all you want. Just realize that asking people to join you in pain requires a better explanation that what you've come up with so far. Frankly, you sound pretty pissed for someone so accepting of god's punishment. How do you know we atheists are just another symptom supplied by your god for the sake of your misery? The same might go for all the conspiracies you are seeing. They may exist just to make you suffer.

I don't think I was supposed to tell you that.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Olivianus

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2012, 07:27:10 PM »
God is glorifying his justice in the sufferings and damnation of sinful men because of their sin.

Found this quote today to counter such crap:

Quote
"If there is a God who will damn his children forever, I would rather go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an infamous tyrant. I make my choice now. I despise that doctrine. It has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men. It has been a constant pain, a perpetual terror to every good man and woman and child. It has filled the good with horror and with fear; but it has had no effect upon the infamous and base. It has wrung the hearts of the tender, it has furrowed the cheeks of the good. This doctrine never should be preached again. What right have you, sir, Mr. clergyman, you, minister of the gospel to stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and fill the future with horror and with fear? I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena."
 - Robert G. Ingersol

Sums it up for me. Suffer all you want. Just realize that asking people to join you in pain requires a better explanation that what you've come up with so far. Frankly, you sound pretty pissed for someone so accepting of god's punishment. How do you know we atheists are just another symptom supplied by your god for the sake of your misery? The same might go for all the conspiracies you are seeing. They may exist just to make you suffer.

I don't think I was supposed to tell you that.

I cannot think of a clearer example of an appeal to emotion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

Offline kin hell

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2012, 08:18:07 PM »


I cannot think of a clearer example of an appeal to emotion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

I'll see that AtE and raise you

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2012, 08:48:16 PM »


I cannot think of a clearer example of an appeal to emotion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

I'll see that AtE and raise you

"You just gotta have Faith!"

Darn, you beat me kin. That's all religion is. Appeal to emotion. And a poor one at that.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2012, 09:16:27 PM »


I cannot think of a clearer example of an appeal to emotion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

I'll see that AtE and raise you

"You just gotta have Faith!"

Is Olivianus trying to argue that the entire enterprise of religion is not based on emotion? What is it based on--intellect? Do people calmly and rationally evaluate the pros and cons of all religions, and then freely choose the most sensible one? If that was the case, then religious practices would not be geographically specific, which they of course all are.

Nobody adopts and existing religion without learning about it from another human being. There are no deities--unless you want to argue that deities can't cross oceans or climb mountains without the help of human beings. People adopt a religion because other people around them are practicing it. A particular religion makes sense because it is part of the larger culture. There is no rational thought involved, and there are no supernatural beings involved.
 
There are nearly one billion Hindus in the world, 95% of them in India. Why, after 200 years of exposure to Christianity, are there only a handful of Christians in India? Did they all weigh the merits of every religion and then choose Hinduism? Rational thinking would not lead to invisible elephant gods and monkey gods, caste, karma and reincarnation. Now, no religion has any proof or evidence, so there are one billion deluded people, right?

And 1.5 deluded Muslims and 2 billion deluded Christians.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline jss

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #63 on: March 04, 2012, 11:12:35 AM »
Hmmm...yes! So, the first "egg" wouldn't have to be any more substatial than roe or frog spawn. Which gradually led to fewer eggs with more substantial shells (like the soft ones laid by reptiles), and thence to hard-shelled eggs laid singly or in small numbers. And, really, there isn't that much difference between any of those things and live births other than the egg & placenta all develop internally. It all does actually come together very neatly when you see the big picture.

It does for those of us who see and accept the evidence for evolution. Yet there are those like BibleStudent, to whom the transitions between those stages of development must have been caused by their deity.

That chicken/egg dilemma is what you get when you think of evolution within the human scale.

Even people who accept evolution as a fact tend to oversimplify how the evolutionary process works.

Quite true. Another variation is, "How could the first elephant to evolve find a mate?" A lot of people still think evolutionary theory is based on organisms "poofing" into existence, just as they visualize their god doing it.

The point of temporal scale is a good one. It's difficult for most of us to really grasp the passage of a few hundred years, let alone multiple millions.

What I find particularly annoying is that YECs are incapable of recognizing speciation occurring right now, in the macro world.

Equines, for example, are in the later stages of speciation.  Donkeys, Horses and Zebras can still interbreed in certain combinations (with human intervention) but the offspring is always sterile.  Should genetic drift continue they will eventually become completely incapable of interbreeding.

Dogs and wolves are likewise in an obvious early stage of (likely) speciation.  They are, of course, both Canis Lupus and are capable of interbreeding with fully viable offspring.  Thanks to rare and subtle aspects of canine genetics it's blatantly obvious that dogs (Canine Lupus Familiaris) have genetically drifted from the nominate subspecies.  Not far enough to become a separate species (by a long way) but far enough (again, thanks to a uniqueness of canine genetics) for the process of speciation to be exceedingly obvious.

I think part of the reason that this isn't apparently evident to theists (YECs anyway) is due to nomenclature demarcation.  We can say that at some distant point in the past a precursor to the elephant (or chicken) existed which we call a 'proto-elephant' (or 'proto-chicken').  Said proto-species was morphologically similar but still distinct.  During the time span between the 'proto' and 'modern' there came to be something that would be indistinguishable, to the layman, from the modern elephant or chicken.  Only a specialist would be able to discern the difference.  If we ignore the possibility of punctuated equilibrium, this interim evolutionary time span between 'proto' and 'modern' is so smooth that it becomes practically impossible to state 'this is an elephant and this is what came before the elephant'.

Thus, the answer to the theist question 'What came before X?' is always 'Something so like X that you or I couldn't tell the difference'.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #64 on: March 05, 2012, 10:21:50 AM »
Vel,
Until you answer what is before you in my ten questions this is my last reply to you. You are a hateful bitter insolent person who can't seem to put a single sentence together to make a rational argument.
Oh, Oliv, I bet you say that to all of the girls.  :D   It’s so cute when you ignore my arguments on your very own blog.  You know when I showed your claims to be pathetic little special pleadings? For someone who throws around accusations of logical fallacies, you sure commit one of the big ones for religion.    Must be pretty important to you to bear false witness against someone since your soul is supposedly at risk.   

I’m just waiting for you to declare solipsism is true, when the rest of your nonsense finally wears out.
Quote
"it's so sweet to see ignorant Christians lie and be such hypocrites when they benefit from this "twisted" constitution.  "
Benefit? My religious group is the one who invented principles of human rights. We did this when we overturned the divine right of kings. The whole basis of this is, is the right of the people to appoint their rulers. Read Rutherford's Lex Rex printed when John Locke was but a child.  I have been persecuted by this contitution. Lie? What lie? Oh this is just another effort to display your wretched hatred of everything not you. Ok.
  Your religious group did not invent the principles of human rights. The Code of HammurabiWiki got closer than your bible or your particular interpretation of it. Your bible is the source of the divine right of kings which is pretty damned hysterical when you say you “overturned it”.  Let’s see what does the bible say about people having the right to appoint their rulers?  Oh yes, it never says it. But it sure does say this:

Quote
Romans 13:  1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
  Nothing about people appointing anyone at all, only your supposed god putting people in their places.  [/quote] We never see one single mention of human rights in the bible.  We see “slaves obey your masters”.  We see that your god doesn’t even have the basic human rights since it damns people on whim or intentionally making sure that they never will be able to accept this god.  Gee, how “fair”, how “just”!  Oh and Oliv, I was a Presbyterian when I was a Christian, and I find it just as ridiculous as all the other sects and all other religions. Yep, more competing “true Christians” and sadly, none of you have any more evidence that you are such things as the next.  Rutherford was just one more little hateful Christian who was sure he was the only “true” one.
And how have you be persecuted by the constitution, Oliv?  It seems you can claim it but actually saying how, well, that is strangely missing from your post.  I’m guessing it’s because you aren’t really persecuted but only whine because you don’t get your way, like some three-year old.  Oh and if you’d take a moment to actually search things on this forum, you’d see that BDS Man is a Roman Catholic who is just as sure his religion is the only right one as you are of yours.  Now, please do those miracles to show your TrueChristian chops.  But of course you can’t, and that means either you or your religion is a failure.  Which would you prefer it to be? 
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 10:23:35 AM by velkyn »
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #65 on: March 05, 2012, 12:37:04 PM »
...by punishing all those who abstractly participated in the sin of Adam.

what the heck does it mean to "abstractly participate" in something?  Can I abstractly participate in the world series? 

Is this mystical xian language?  You know, when you guys say something that sounds deep and meaningful, but really only serves to confuse.  Like when xians say "Adam died a spiritual death."  Wtf is a spiritual death?  It turns out to not have anything to do with death at all! 

So, is abstract participation like that?  Sounds awesome but really doesn't mean anything?
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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #66 on: March 05, 2012, 12:55:13 PM »
Velkyn demanded I come on this forum. So here I am. Drake Shelton from Uncreated Light.
Thee hath committed mortal sin by making, no, make that baring false witness to godess Vekyn and have suffered but a mere smattering of her high wrath. :o
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Offline rockv12

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2012, 12:35:46 AM »
So today i've been asked one of those simple questions today by a faitful christian saying: "Which came first, the chicken or the egg"? So i start to explain that through evolution and abiogenesis the chicken was formed through the cycle of evolution which later on would have the ability to reproduce other chickens through the egg. What are your thoughts and opinioins?

ah the clever sheep Christian.   The egg came first, no doubt. Fossil evidence supports that quite well, as it does evolutionary theory.

Fossil evidence?  Please prove this. 

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2012, 08:08:18 AM »
Fossil evidence?  Please prove this.

I guess someone here rejects the notion of dinosaur eggs existing before chickens, and that chickens evolved from dinosaurs.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2012, 10:35:25 AM »
So today i've been asked one of those simple questions today by a faitful christian saying: "Which came first, the chicken or the egg"? So i start to explain that through evolution and abiogenesis the chicken was formed through the cycle of evolution which later on would have the ability to reproduce other chickens through the egg. What are your thoughts and opinioins?

ah the clever sheep Christian.   The egg came first, no doubt. Fossil evidence supports that quite well, as it does evolutionary theory.

Fossil evidence?  Please prove this.

let me guess, you are a young earth creationist who has willfully remained ignorant about fossils, etc.   As TS has said, dinosaurs existed long before birds.  There were even a lot of amphibians, proto-reptiles, etc .  and they had eggs.   Fossils go from simple to complex; the oldest the most simple, the most recent complex.   Eggs appeared around the Carboniferous http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/carboniferous/carboniferous.php and we don't have bird fossils until around the Jurassic: http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/diapsids/birds/birdfr.html that's about a 200 million year gap.   

http://www.stanford.edu/group/stanfordbirds/text/essays/Eggs.html
http://www.royalalbertamuseum.ca/vexhibit/eggs/vexhome/evol.htm
http://sci.waikato.ac.nz/evolution/AnimalEvolution.shtml#Earlyreptiles
http://tolweb.org/Amniota
http://icb.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/2/351.abstract

Now, Rockv, I suggest you do some research and not just on creationist sites.  I know it can be hard for Christians to accept but creationists will lie to you and it's pitiful on how easy it is to show their nonsense.  They depend on the ignorance of their audience and will use superseded information, quotes taken out of context, and outright lies to try to keep people accepting that the bible is literal in its claims.



« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 10:37:32 AM by velkyn »
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Offline rockv12

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2012, 06:50:59 PM »
So today i've been asked one of those simple questions today by a faitful christian saying: "Which came first, the chicken or the egg"? So i start to explain that through evolution and abiogenesis the chicken was formed through the cycle of evolution which later on would have the ability to reproduce other chickens through the egg. What are your thoughts and opinioins?

ah the clever sheep Christian.   The egg came first, no doubt. Fossil evidence supports that quite well, as it does evolutionary theory.

Fossil evidence?  Please prove this.

let me guess, you are a young earth creationist who has willfully remained ignorant about fossils, etc.   As TS has said, dinosaurs existed long before birds.  There were even a lot of amphibians, proto-reptiles, etc .  and they had eggs.   Fossils go from simple to complex; the oldest the most simple, the most recent complex.   Eggs appeared around the Carboniferous http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/carboniferous/carboniferous.php and we don't have bird fossils until around the Jurassic: http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/diapsids/birds/birdfr.html that's about a 200 million year gap.   

http://www.stanford.edu/group/stanfordbirds/text/essays/Eggs.html
http://www.royalalbertamuseum.ca/vexhibit/eggs/vexhome/evol.htm
http://sci.waikato.ac.nz/evolution/AnimalEvolution.shtml#Earlyreptiles
http://tolweb.org/Amniota
http://icb.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/2/351.abstract

Now, Rockv, I suggest you do some research and not just on creationist sites.  I know it can be hard for Christians to accept but creationists will lie to you and it's pitiful on how easy it is to show their nonsense.  They depend on the ignorance of their audience and will use superseded information, quotes taken out of context, and outright lies to try to keep people accepting that the bible is literal in its claims.

And you simply read something in a book or on the internet and believe it, without question?  I've read tons of evolutionary references.  You know what most do?  They explain and explain and so, "this happened, then that, and then that happened, and here we have it".    Never any proof.  Nice stories and nice theories, but NO proof.  Again, where is the proof?  It's rather hard to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt, isn't it?  You believe whatever some scientists claims as TRUTH.  Dating methods are perfect?  It's funny that you think that all Christians are just dumb, narrow minded idiots that believe blindly without question.  But then turn around and say, "yea, the Big Bang happened, we don't know how, but it did!!".   Who's blindly following something that there isn't a good, rational reason to? 

Offline kin hell

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #71 on: March 12, 2012, 08:47:54 PM »
It's funny that you think that all Christians are just dumb, narrow minded idiots that believe blindly without question.  But then turn around and say, "yea, the Big Bang happened, we don't know how, but it did!!".   Who's blindly following something that there isn't a good, rational reason to?

....which process of interacting with the planet do you prefer?

The process of observable repeatable evidence giving you workable and demonstrable parameters on which to base your actions, or the holy, pray to jesus guess, have faith, and hope for the best?

Because if you are here, using this technology, it seems to indicate that you are happy to reap the rewards of the system of thought and experiment and test to destruction that enabled this communication, but you would wish to belittle those bits of it that dismantle the faith based superstition of yours (which co-incidentally just cannot be tested, because while your superstition exists, its god does not exist).

You want to win points by decrying the fact that "we don't know" is a fair and honest statement.
That science works to the best hypothesis available at any one time, and unlike the stupidity of a supernatural being's rules being carved in stone (which somehow we still can't stub a real toe on) science can and has very very often been wrong, but improves its knowledge with each admitted error.

So if the evidence, so far, seems to point a certain way for explanations of the beginning of this universe, please don't get petulant when the only aspect of your god invention observable, is its absence.

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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2012, 12:22:15 AM »

And you simply read something in a book or on the internet and believe it, without question?  I've read tons of evolutionary references.  You know what most do?  They explain and explain and so, "this happened, then that, and then that happened, and here we have it".    Never any proof.  Nice stories and nice theories, but NO proof.  Again, where is the proof? 

What DO you consider "proof" of evolution?
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Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #73 on: March 13, 2012, 03:50:48 AM »
And you simply read something in a book...and believe it, without question?

Anyone else catchin' the irony here?
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Offline Brakeman

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #74 on: March 13, 2012, 05:42:05 AM »
rockv12,

If you caught the bacteria that causes leprosy today, would you take a scientifically proven antibiotic or would you take the biblically proscribed pigeon sacrifice to cure yourself?
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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #75 on: March 13, 2012, 06:22:05 AM »
And you simply read something in a book or on the internet and believe it, without question?  I've read tons of evolutionary references.  You know what most do?  They explain and explain and so, "this happened, then that, and then that happened, and here we have it".    Never any proof.  Nice stories and nice theories, but NO proof.  Again, where is the proof?  It's rather hard to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt, isn't it?  You believe whatever some scientists claims as TRUTH.  Dating methods are perfect?  It's funny that you think that all Christians are just dumb, narrow minded idiots that believe blindly without question.  But then turn around and say, "yea, the Big Bang happened, we don't know how, but it did!!".   Who's blindly following something that there isn't a good, rational reason to?
Lenski. But of course you will say that it is still an e-coli, not a new species. So even though the proof is there, you deny it. Of course the proof is in a book. I am not a zoologist and am not going to do the experiment in my kitchen.


Read a book, so you have more evidence to deny
http://www.amazon.com/The-Greatest-Show-Earth-Evolution/dp/B004AYCWY4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1331637775&sr=8-2

Offline velkyn

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #76 on: March 13, 2012, 09:55:52 AM »
And you simply read something in a book or on the internet and believe it, without question?  I've read tons of evolutionary references.  You know what most do?  They explain and explain and so, "this happened, then that, and then that happened, and here we have it".    Never any proof.  Nice stories and nice theories, but NO proof. 
No, rockv, I do not believe anything without question.  Take for example your claim that you’ve read evolutionary references and that you claim that “most” provide “never any proof”.  I know that’s a lie because I can prove, aka find plenty of evidence, that you are wrong, with your baseless claims.  I can show that most do indeed have evidence that supports their claims, unlike you.  In other posts on other threads, you have demonstrated without a doubt that you do not even know what evolutionary theory says, so why should I believe that you’ve read any thing about it, other than what other creationists have told you?  Now, if you want to prove me wrong, tell me, in your own words what a theory is and what evolutionary theory states.  From your posts, I have plenty of reason to doubt that you know either.  You like so many willfully ignorant creationists, create a straw manWiki version of what you need evolutionary theory to be so you can have a hope to attack it.  This is a classic logical fallacy and shows how deceitful creationist are.

Quote
Again, where is the proof?  It's rather hard to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt, isn't it?  You believe whatever some scientists claims as TRUTH.  Dating methods are perfect?  It's funny that you think that all Christians are just dumb, narrow minded idiots that believe blindly without question.  But then turn around and say, "yea, the Big Bang happened, we don't know how, but it did!!".   Who's blindly following something that there isn't a good, rational reason to?
No, rockv, it isn’t hard at all to prove that evolutionary theory is correct beyond a shadow of a doubt, no matter how much you wish it were so.  I accept evolutionary theory because it is supported by the same science that you and I benefit from everyday.  The laws of physics and chemistry do not stop and start when a theist finds them inconvenient.  You can find all the evidence to support evolutionary theory right here: http://www.talkorigins.org/  Now, if you find some of it suspect, give me an example and I can help you understand it. 

From your own words, I know that you are willfully ignorant, if not dumb.  You have demonstrated that you are indeed narrow-minded since you cannot even take the time to understand the science you attack with such ignorance.  You have no more evidence that your god exists than another theist, be they Muslim, Hindu, Wicca, Jew, etc.  So, from my perspective, you do indeed believe blindly since you have to lie to support your faith.  IF you actually had evidence you wouldn’t have to do that, would you?  Now, your ignorance can be fixed, but only if you want it to be.  It’s not shameful to be ignorant, but it is when you intentionally keep yourself that way.

The Big Bang theory was initially a hypothesis, based on observations.  It was tested and it became a theory because its prediction have proven true and as of now, it is the best fit for what we know to be in existence.  Until a better fit comes along, this is what scientists use.  Here is the evidence to support it: http://big-bang-theory.com/  http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/stu/cosmos_bigbang.html http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/astronomy/bigbang.html  Plenty of rational reasoning and plenty of evidence.  We may not have all of the details but as it stands this is what fits what we see.  And the fact that we don’t have all of the details does not mean your god exists. 

Now, we have theists all claiming that their particular god was the creator.  We have different myths on how these gods did the creation.  None of them have any evidence to support them, not the Christian god with the splitting of the void, not the Norse where a magic cow licked giants free of primordial ice, not a god coming from a magic egg, etc.  Now, if you want to claim you have evidence of your myth being true, give it.  Show me how your story is true and the other myths aren’t. 
If you can't, DumpsterFire's observation f iron is quite accurate.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 09:58:00 AM by velkyn »
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #77 on: March 13, 2012, 11:55:15 AM »
And you simply read something in a book or on the internet and believe it, without question?  I've read tons of evolutionary references.  You know what most do?  They explain and explain and so, "this happened, then that, and then that happened, and here we have it".    Never any proof.  Nice stories and nice theories, but NO proof.  Again, where is the proof?  It's rather hard to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt, isn't it?  You believe whatever some scientists claims as TRUTH.  Dating methods are perfect?  It's funny that you think that all Christians are just dumb, narrow minded idiots that believe blindly without question.  But then turn around and say, "yea, the Big Bang happened, we don't know how, but it did!!".   Who's blindly following something that there isn't a good, rational reason to?
No, you're not supposed to believe without question.  That's why they call it "research".  You're basically looking at evidence other people have collected, which supports their theories, and determining whether there's any contradictions.  That's the whole point of scientific theories - they're the best answer people have come up with that fits the facts, and until evidence which contradicts them in some way is found, they're considered to be valid.  So question all you like, but don't bleat about how "there's no proof".  If you want proofs, go study math.

You see, scientists don't claim that theories are truth, or that they're perfect, as you seem to think.  They base theories off of the evidence that exists, without preconceived notions, in a way that coherently explains them.  Naturally, since the evidence is incomplete and probably always will be incomplete, sometimes later evidence turns up that proves them wrong, or someone can justifiably show that they made a mistake.  In that case, they fix the problems with the theory and move on.

Can you honestly say that you've looked at the evidence that exists without a preconceived notion of what it means?  You believe in God, therefore you see God's hand in the evidence.  But if you subtract that belief in God (which is a preconceived notion, whether you think so or not), then there is no evident hand of God anywhere that we've looked so far.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2012, 04:27:10 PM »
The Theory of Evolution is true because it works when you apply it to a problem. We can cure diseases, grow better crops, do cloning, trace people's relationships through genetics, solve crimes with DNA, transplant organs, all applications of the TOE.
 
If the theory was bogus, we would know pretty quick. When it was applied, it would work the same as doing nothing at all. Like religion.

Take two groups of sick children. Give one group the appropriate TOE antibiotic, say magic words over the other group. In which group will more kids get well? We all know the answer, which is why we regularly take our kids to the hospital and not to a witch/faith healer/shaman/priest when they get sick.

Take two crime scenes. Use TOE forensic anthropology and DNA on one, use psychics on the other. Which is more likely to catch the criminal? Right.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Historicity

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #79 on: March 13, 2012, 05:56:47 PM »
Take two crime scenes. Use TOE forensic anthropology and DNA on one, use psychics on the other. Which is more likely to catch the criminal? Right.

Likewise I ignore the idiotic rants that astrology is disproved by astronomy.  It is not.  Astrology's only allegation about astronomy is there is some undiscovered force.   You can't disprove that.  You are a fool to try.

But astrology is NOT an astronomical theory.  It has astronomy in it (indeed, in the title) but it is apsychological theory.   I wish I could trace the source -- it may be apocryphal, that is, what could be done -- but can a group of astrologers, isolated from internet sources and given the moment of birth and longitude and latitude, distinguish the serial killers from a group of ordinary people?

Wait a minute.  Internet to the rescue.  This is apparently what the source of the rumor.  It fits the right era.

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/living/the-scientific-case-against-astrology

Profiling is a science and has a probability of working odds above chance.  Psychic detectives can't produce.

I'm going to go read the article now.



Offline rockv12

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #80 on: March 13, 2012, 09:23:02 PM »
rockv12,

If you caught the bacteria that causes leprosy today, would you take a scientifically proven antibiotic or would you take the biblically proscribed pigeon sacrifice to cure yourself?

??? Pardon? 

Offline rockv12

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #81 on: March 13, 2012, 09:30:54 PM »

Now, we have theists all claiming that their particular god was the creator.  We have different myths on how these gods did the creation.  None of them have any evidence to support them, not the Christian god with the splitting of the void

No evidence to support them?  We have evidence all around us.  That's the point.  We use this principle in solving a crime.  You may see evidence as a bloody knife, or a human hair, or a messed up crime scene and conclude..."Something bad happened here"  Were you there?  Did you see the crime?  No.  But you see the effects of the crime.  Nobody would conclude, "Nothing happened here, the wind must have blown this blood onto the knife because the door was left open".  That is absurd.  A creation ALWAYS requires a creator.  Better yet, a design requires a designer.  The hummingbird evolved?  Can we go there? 

Online Dante

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #82 on: March 13, 2012, 10:20:02 PM »
Rocky, are you a young earth creationist?

Do you believe that a perfect god created canyons to look like they're the ancient ramblings of streams turned rivers? Or the craters on the moon were systematically placed by a designer? Or that mountains were pulled out of the plains, uplifted by the hand of god?

Or rather, do you follow the evidence suggesting these  wonderously beautiful things were formed by natural occurence?

Over eons.

The same holds true for life on this planet as well.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline sun_king

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #83 on: March 13, 2012, 10:50:08 PM »
<snip>
 That is absurd.  A creation ALWAYS requires a creator.  Better yet, a design requires a designer.  The hummingbird evolved?  Can we go there?

Now without any special pleading, kindly explain who created your creator. Better yet, who designed the designer?

*Without any special pleading*

We dont need to worry about the hummingbird if you can answer this question.

Offline rockv12

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #84 on: March 13, 2012, 11:59:18 PM »
Rocky, are you a young earth creationist?

Do you believe that a perfect god created canyons to look like they're the ancient ramblings of streams turned rivers? Or the craters on the moon were systematically placed by a designer? Or that mountains were pulled out of the plains, uplifted by the hand of god?

Or rather, do you follow the evidence suggesting these  wonderously beautiful things were formed by natural occurence?

Over eons.

The same holds true for life on this planet as well.

Yes.  Natural ocurrence did create all you said.  The Biblical account of Creation and the Flood will answer your questions.  Before the flood, there was no rain.  This is why we had humans living nearly 1,000 yrs.  The world was a different place, very humid, and vegetative.  Rain came, the flood came, and changed everything.  Tectonic plates moved and mountains rose up, and with all the water flowing and receding, we find the Grand Canyon....the best evidence for a monster flood.  Check it out.

Offline rockv12

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #85 on: March 14, 2012, 12:00:51 AM »
<snip>
 That is absurd.  A creation ALWAYS requires a creator.  Better yet, a design requires a designer.  The hummingbird evolved?  Can we go there?

Now without any special pleading, kindly explain who created your creator. Better yet, who designed the designer?

*Without any special pleading*

We dont need to worry about the hummingbird if you can answer this question.

Ahhh, good question.  There's lots of them aren't there?  Shall we answer everything?  Every single question must have an answer... I mean, I have a 135 IQ.  I should be able to figure this out.

Offline kin hell

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #86 on: March 14, 2012, 12:10:53 AM »
<snip>
 That is absurd.  A creation ALWAYS requires a creator.  Better yet, a design requires a designer.  The hummingbird evolved?  Can we go there?

Now without any special pleading, kindly explain who created your creator. Better yet, who designed the designer?

*Without any special pleading*

We dont need to worry about the hummingbird if you can answer this question.

Ahhh, good question.  There's lots of them aren't there?  Shall we answer everything?  Every single question must have an answer... I mean, I have a 135 IQ.  I should be able to figure this out.

what's so hard to figure out?

you stated

a creation always requires a creator
a design always requires a designer

sun king asked you

so who created the creator?
and who designed the designer?
and requested that you don't indulge in special pleading

your task with that 135 IQ  was to bridge the logic gap and answer the questions.

any other action/ distraction on your part is dodging the reality that if you require a god to kickstart everything (especially as everything  is so obviously overwhelmingly complex), what or who, kickstarted god (especially as it/god is so infinitely more complex)?
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

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