Author Topic: Christians and their annoying questions  (Read 4639 times)

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Offline shocked believer

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Christians and their annoying questions
« on: February 17, 2012, 01:29:19 PM »
So today i've been asked one of those simple questions today by a faitful christian saying: "Which came first, the chicken or the egg"? So i start to explain that through evolution and abiogenesis the chicken was formed through the cycle of evolution which later on would have the ability to reproduce other chickens through the egg. What are your thoughts and opinioins?
Man is quite insane. He wouldn't know how to create a maggot
and he creates Gods by the dozen.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2012, 01:34:06 PM »
So today i've been asked one of those simple questions today by a faitful christian saying: "Which came first, the chicken or the egg"? So i start to explain that through evolution and abiogenesis the chicken was formed through the cycle of evolution which later on would have the ability to reproduce other chickens through the egg. What are your thoughts and opinioins?

ah the clever sheep Christian.   The egg came first, no doubt. Fossil evidence supports that quite well, as it does evolutionary theory. 
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Offline shocked believer

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 01:48:13 PM »
Quote
ah the clever sheep Christian.   The egg came first, no doubt. Fossil evidence supports that quite well, as it does evolutionary theory.
hmmm any articles in the internet that i should read about to further understand this? :o
Man is quite insane. He wouldn't know how to create a maggot
and he creates Gods by the dozen.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 01:52:40 PM »
Quote
ah the clever sheep Christian.   The egg came first, no doubt. Fossil evidence supports that quite well, as it does evolutionary theory.
hmmm any articles in the internet that i should read about to further understand this? :o
well, you could start by googling "egg evolution"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg

http://stanford.edu/group/stanfordbirds/text/essays/Eggs.html

http://www.fossilmuseum.net/Paleobiology/Paleozoic_paleobiology.htm  scroll down to the Carboniferous.


nice bit about evolution in action with eggs: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/09/100901-science-animals-evolution-australia-lizard-skink-live-birth-eggs/
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Offline sun_king

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 01:58:22 PM »
There was always a hen and some specific point in time she laid an egg and it was good.

Offline Frank

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2012, 02:16:50 PM »
So today i've been asked one of those simple questions today by a faitful christian saying: "Which came first, the chicken or the egg"? So i start to explain that through evolution and abiogenesis the chicken was formed through the cycle of evolution which later on would have the ability to reproduce other chickens through the egg. What are your thoughts and opinioins?

My opinion is you're wasting your time. Whatever evidence you provide it won't be enough.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 03:22:50 PM »
I always thought the egg McMuffin came 1st but what do I know.  I was just trying to cross the road.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2012, 12:23:01 AM »
There were eggs being laid for a long time before birds came out of them, and chickens were not the first of those...so that part of the question is self-evident.

Thus, the first-ever chicken (if one could ever narrow that down to a single bird) hatched out of something pretty indistinguishable from the eggs of similar birds.

Really, is there any actual difference between the eggs of many common birds? Sure, there may be variations in color and size, but there are probaby innumerable eggs out there which even an expert would not be able to unmistakably identify as coming from a specific bird without other clues such as the location it was found, the nest structure, etc...

Offline Brakeman

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2012, 12:33:48 AM »
What Noobs!

The CHICKEN came first!  The chicken god created Adam rooster first, and then created Eve hen as a help mate. But then the hen ate the bug of knowledge and that pissed off the chicken god. So the chicken god cursed the rooster and hen. He cut off the rooster's penis and made them copulate by pushing their butt holes together. He further punished the hen by making big white things come out of her butt periodically, whether or not she was going to have a chick or not.

So remember, the rooster came first.. then the hen.. then the egg!
Help find the cure for FUNDAMENTIA !

Offline Noman Peopled

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2012, 08:03:20 AM »
Sorry, I've been out of the loop ... what is that chicken/egg argument supposed to do?
"Deferinate" itself appears to be a new word... though I'm perfectly carmotic with it.
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Offline Lorax

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2012, 08:32:19 AM »
Sorry, I've been out of the loop ... what is that chicken/egg argument supposed to do?

I suspect it's supposed to get you disarmed enough to say something that reveals your worldview so the christian can ask "do you want to hear what I think about that?" and can show you the bridge illustration.

Offline Quesi

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2012, 02:36:20 PM »
Sorry, I've been out of the loop ... what is that chicken/egg argument supposed to do?

There is a video on youtube entitled "Atheism destroyed with one question."   It has over 850,000 views.   

When theists ask atheists "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" most atheists get a puzzled look on their faces, marveling at the multiple levels of ignorance contained in the question, and hoping that the theist is really joking.  Theists mistake this puzzled look as a victory for their god.  And apparently, they are so delighted by looking at the puzzled atheists, that theists are making a sport out of posing the question. 

« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 02:57:57 PM by Quesi »

Offline Noman Peopled

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2012, 03:35:59 PM »
When theists ask atheists "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" most atheists get a puzzled look on their faces, marveling at the multiple levels of ignorance contained in the question, and hoping that the theist is really joking.
Oh, I see. Holy shit, that's one mess of an argument. More problems with it than it has words. I don't feel particularly bad for completely missing the point of that one.
"Deferinate" itself appears to be a new word... though I'm perfectly carmotic with it.
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Offline Backspace

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2012, 09:27:44 PM »
[There is a video on youtube entitled "Atheism destroyed with one question."   It has over 850,000 views.

Is that a Saudi Arabian flag behind the fish/egg guy in the video?
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Offline Lorax

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2012, 02:29:52 AM »
^^that video may be the dumbest argument I have ever heard. And that is saying something

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2012, 06:20:31 AM »
[There is a video on youtube entitled "Atheism destroyed with one question."   It has over 850,000 views.

Is that a Saudi Arabian flag behind the fish/egg guy in the video?

Well, it does open and close with a quote from the Holy Qu'ran. Praise Allah! Down with YHWH!

Offline Quesi

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2012, 10:24:51 PM »
Wow!  Never even noticed the flag and the Quran quote!  He is a POE!  And there ARE Christians out there eating this up. 


Offline plethora

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2012, 07:04:08 AM »
That chicken/egg dilemma is what you get when you think of evolution within the human scale.

Even people who accept evolution as a fact tend to oversimplify how the evolutionary process works.
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Offline BaalServant

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2012, 08:11:35 AM »
My take was that the chicken in the question was simply understood with the royal meaning, as in, the first animal to lay eggs.

From there, I know that there would have to be a pre-egg laying chicken, or pchicken somewhere in this timeline.

At some point, the pchicken would produce offspring, wherein one of the trillions upon trillions of instances when a new combination of genes  produces a new trait in an organism, this instance happens to be one where an organism encases its offspring in an encasement. 

So to me, the pchicken exists, and then the egg with the new organism - the royal chicken - exists, from which hatches the first chicken. 

Thanks for bringing up the question - I'd never actually looked at it from a christer propagandist's view.   : )
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Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2012, 09:46:07 AM »
My take was that the chicken in the question was simply understood with the royal meaning, as in, the first animal to lay eggs.

From there, I know that there would have to be a pre-egg laying chicken, or pchicken somewhere in this timeline.

At some point, the pchicken would produce offspring, wherein one of the trillions upon trillions of instances when a new combination of genes  produces a new trait in an organism, this instance happens to be one where an organism encases its offspring in an encasement. 

So to me, the pchicken exists, and then the egg with the new organism - the royal chicken - exists, from which hatches the first chicken. 

Thanks for bringing up the question - I'd never actually looked at it from a christer propagandist's view.   : )
Hmmm...yes! So, the first "egg" wouldn't have to be any more substatial than roe or frog spawn. Which gradually led to fewer eggs with more substantial shells (like the soft ones laid by reptiles), and thence to hard-shelled eggs laid singly or in small numbers. And, really, there isn't that much difference between any of those things and live births other than the egg & placenta all develop internally. It all does actually come together very neatly when you see the big picture.

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2012, 02:01:40 PM »
Hmmm...yes! So, the first "egg" wouldn't have to be any more substatial than roe or frog spawn. Which gradually led to fewer eggs with more substantial shells (like the soft ones laid by reptiles), and thence to hard-shelled eggs laid singly or in small numbers. And, really, there isn't that much difference between any of those things and live births other than the egg & placenta all develop internally. It all does actually come together very neatly when you see the big picture.

It does for those of us who see and accept the evidence for evolution. Yet there are those like BibleStudent, to whom the transitions between those stages of development must have been caused by their deity.

That chicken/egg dilemma is what you get when you think of evolution within the human scale.

Even people who accept evolution as a fact tend to oversimplify how the evolutionary process works.

Quite true. Another variation is, "How could the first elephant to evolve find a mate?" A lot of people still think evolutionary theory is based on organisms "poofing" into existence, just as they visualize their god doing it.

The point of temporal scale is a good one. It's difficult for most of us to really grasp the passage of a few hundred years, let alone multiple millions.
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Offline inveni0

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2012, 06:55:08 PM »
Actually, this argument interests me.  I wonder how egg laying evolved.  I don't question that it evolved, but I wonder what the process was.  How complex a life form is required to complete such a task?  Maybe a good topic of discussion for when I run into an evolutionary biologist.  There are a lot of things I don't know about evolution...but I DO know that it's obvious...so that's all that really matters to me right now.
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Offline Olivianus

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2012, 02:04:49 AM »
Velkyn demanded I come on this forum. So here I am. Drake Shelton from Uncreated Light.

Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2012, 03:27:01 AM »
Velkyn demanded I come on this forum. So here I am. Drake Shelton from Uncreated Light.

WTF does this have to do with a country singer? Oh wait, you said Drake Shelton...
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2012, 09:58:36 AM »
Velkyn demanded I come on this forum. So here I am. Drake Shelton from Uncreated Light.

No, Olivianus, I did not demand anything. I invited you here.  Shame that even in that you can't be honest.  I saw your request for non-Christians to answer your questions and found them hilarious. They can be found right here: http://eternalpropositions.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/questions-for-a-secularist/

Oy, what a dog's breakfast.  I do like this from your reply on your blog
Quote
Actually I don’t know what anything physical is. However, science admits this. The usual answer I get from atheist people is an admission that science does not know how the brain works. Hmmmm.
  that's hysterical.  We do know how the brain works.  You know, neurons and electrical impulses.  So yuo can chart up at least one atheist that has given you other than your supposed "usual answer".  I'd love to see these atheists who have admited that "science does not know how the brain works".  Quite a claim that seems to have nothing to support it. 

and now back to your regularly scheduled thread.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 10:01:01 AM by velkyn »
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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2012, 10:39:24 AM »
velkyn,you go out and look for christians? We don't get enough around here? Are you some sort of masochist?

And olivianus isn't completely wrong. The brains we understand are the rational ones. He may have personal reasons to be concerned about irrational ones. You never know.

I tried reading his long post. He sure has a lot of questions. And angry ones at that. But once someone asks how something could have come from nothing (something we don't posit in the first place) and then ignores the question of how a god could have done the same thing, they loose me.

It's almost like I don't have any continuity in my perception or something.  ;D

OF course, I do hope he cedes to your "demands" and brings some of those questions here. If I ever accidentally start thinking some of them might be fun. I do hope he knows how to type where the saliva he is sputtering all overl the place shows up on my screen so I can know for sure how angry and serious he is.

On the bright side, he doesn't like Santorum either. Though Ricky being an idiot isn't his main reason. But it's still common ground. Something we can work with.



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Offline velkyn

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2012, 10:44:45 AM »
no, I didn't go out and look for him.   ;D I found him on Greta Christina's blog in the comments, trying to get attention and his questions just were hysterical  ;D  so I brought him back here since I thought some of us would like to address such things. 

what can I say, I'm so bored at work. I should be probably happy that I get paid for doing essentially nothing but it's really really not fun.   
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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2012, 12:15:46 PM »
^^that video may be the dumbest argument I have ever heard. And that is saying something
No, the dumbest is when the guy defeats atheism by poking a hole in a live cell in a beaker of salt water then claiming victory because the cell didnt become life despite having "the ingredients of life" in its vacinity.

Offline Historicity

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Re: Christians and their annoying questions
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2012, 12:30:25 PM »
Sorry, I've been out of the loop ... what is that chicken/egg argument supposed to do?

It's also a version of something Spinoza discussed.  A theist can demand you show the cause for something, then the cause for that, then the cause for that, etc.  When you get tired of answering, he says that therefore the cause was God.  Spinoza points out that the theist never showed that at any stage the cause was God, he merely wore you down.