Author Topic: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?  (Read 2122 times)

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Online nogodsforme

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2012, 08:13:50 PM »
And you assume that these were Jesus' followers...? Why...? Because they said so...? Even Hitler "claimed" to be a Christian but  just because someone says it, doesn't mean that it is true.

Hitler's airplanes and tanks all had Christian crosses painted on them.  The majority of the nation thought they were a Christian nation.  Face it, you want someone to do really horrible things, the best way is to promise them a reward in paradise for doing those horrible things.

And to re-define "horrible" to mean "good" as in, "good=whatever absurd thing god and/or his representatives want you to do". The Spanish Inquisition and the Salem witch hunters and the Aztec priests and the Nazi camp guards all thought that torture and killing was good because it was what god and/or his representatives wanted.

Because god and/or his representatives would never tell you to do anything bad. It only seems bad to our limited human experience of life. You can't reason with that kind of logic. You can only try to stay out of the way.

Whether it's Pope Urban telling Crusader Christians to kill everyone from France to Jerusalem, the pogroms against the Jews, or Osama bin laden telling Al-Qaida members to blow up a few thousand infidels in New York.... :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline mrbiscoop

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2012, 08:13:50 PM »
Greetings  ILOVEYOU, we've been waiting for the One True Christian for a while now.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
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Offline learnin

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2012, 08:31:15 PM »
Ive never experienced death or suffering to a great extent. I do know of suffering and death that would appear to be worse than that jesus is said to have suffered. How does jesus' fear in that scenario provide any sort of solice for people facing worse that arent an all powerful god (and their own father).

starving toddlers in 3rd world countries
people being dragged to death behind pickup trucks in the bible belt
victims of the inquisition
possibly early AIDs victims (ive witnessed this 1st hand, it aint pretty)

How about the years of torture that prisoners of war have undergone?  Tongues cut out, fingernails pulled out...bamboo shoots hammered under fingernails...beatings...

I had a first cousin brutally tortured before she was murdered.  She was bitten, chewed on, raped, prodded with sticks, knives and then heard one of her attackers say to the accomplice:  "Finish her off."  30 years later the accomplice confessed because she couldn't live with the groan my first cousin wailed out when she knew she was going to be finished off.....

You bring up a damned good point.

Offline mrbiscoop

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2012, 08:40:49 PM »
   It's been said that Jesus had a really bad weekend for your sins. Doing okay now though, he's in heaven or wherever with a beer in one hand and the remote control in his other hand having a grand old time.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2012, 09:19:04 PM »
Ive never experienced death or suffering to a great extent. I do know of suffering and death that would appear to be worse than that jesus is said to have suffered. How does jesus' fear in that scenario provide any sort of solice for people facing worse that arent an all powerful god (and their own father).

starving toddlers in 3rd world countries
people being dragged to death behind pickup trucks in the bible belt
victims of the inquisition
possibly early AIDs victims (ive witnessed this 1st hand, it aint pretty)

Ever be beaten to a pulp, speared, and nailed to a cross to suffer an excruciatingly  painful and humiliating slow death...?

I'm not convinced that you are qualified to make such a statement. But you are entitled to your own opinion. You have the freedom
to do that. You'd think that everything will eventually come to a boiling point. Things seem to be moving pretty fast now a days...
The writers of the Gospels were NOT eyewitness to ANYTHING that may have happened to Jesus...if the fucker even existed
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2012, 09:19:56 PM »
Soooo, if someone does something bad, that means they aren't a Christian, even if they say they are Christian, and are high mucky mucks in the church? I guess you can't keep saying that Christianity is the most popular religion, then, if most of the 2 billion people who say they are Christians aren't real Christians.

Does it follow, then, that a good person like Gandhi was secretly a real Christian, even though he was to all appearances a real Hindu? Can a person be good without being a Christian?  :?

What does that make us atheists who are not really bad or really good-- but not Christian or any other religion? Are we not real?[1]

And don't go telling us that we are evil sinners and deserve death no matter what we do, because we just got finished with that from magicmiles. And don't go re-defining "good" to mean "whatever god wants" instead of what most people agree is good. Some things (raping babies, committing genocide, voting Republican, eating pistachio ice cream) are evil no matter who wants you to do it.
 1. We are Devo. Old school ref.

I don't know where you are getting this kind of information. Just because someone does something "bad" does not necessarily mean that they are not a Christian. I suppose what one determines is bad is the question and what standard do you use to weigh the actual offense and under what authority.

As for Gandhi, I don't know. Only GOD knows.

Other than the fact that Jesus acknowledges GOD, some Atheists have more in common w/ Jesus than they think. Jesus came to set people free from religion.
 

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2012, 09:25:39 PM »
And you assume that these were Jesus' followers...? Why...? Because they said so...? Even Hitler "claimed" to be a Christian but  just because someone says it, doesn't mean that it is true.

Hitler's airplanes and tanks all had Christian crosses painted on them.  The majority of the nation thought they were a Christian nation.  Face it, you want someone to do really horrible things, the best way is to promise them a reward in paradise for doing those horrible things.
It's really sad because Jesus taught the opposite. He never promised Heavenly rewards for those who do evil things. The opposite, actually.

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2012, 09:28:38 PM »
Greetings  ILOVEYOU, we've been waiting for the One True Christian for a while now.

I am just a man who loves GOD and believes in whom He sent. Jesus Christ.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2012, 09:54:05 PM »
It's really sad because Jesus taught the opposite. He never promised Heavenly rewards for those who do evil things. The opposite, actually.
What did jesus tell the man on the cross next to him? Why was that man also on a cross?

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2012, 10:26:24 PM »
It's really sad because Jesus taught the opposite. He never promised Heavenly rewards for those who do evil things. The opposite, actually.
What did jesus tell the man on the cross next to him? Why was that man also on a cross?
If I remember correctly, there were two fellows beside Him. One on each side. One was taunting Jesus to prove Himself and call out to GOD and save them all. The other acknowledged Jesus as Lord and King. Admitting His guilt and was worthy of the punishment. Defending Jesus, saying, He didn't do anything wrong to deserve this punishment. He believed the Lord because he asked Him that when He came into His Kingdom to remember Him. He repented, admitted his guilt, acknowledged Jesus as Savior and was remorseful. He had a change of heart right there on the cross. Jesus told Him that he would be with Him in paradise that day.

Jesus prayed for all of them on the cross and said Father, forgive them for they know not what they do. His final words were, "It is finished."

Does this answer your question...?

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2012, 10:32:44 PM »

Other than the fact that Jesus acknowledges GOD, some Atheists have more in common w/ Jesus than they think. Jesus came to set people free from religion.
 

He didn't do a terribly good job, then. "Think not that I have come to abolish teh lawz...

Christians immediately set up a church, which proclaimed a Pope. I think his message must have become a bit garbled, in that mess of pseudepigrapha, known as the "gospels".
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2012, 10:39:29 PM »
It's really sad because Jesus taught the opposite. He never promised Heavenly rewards for those who do evil things. The opposite, actually.
What did jesus tell the man on the cross next to him? Why was that man also on a cross?
If I remember correctly, there were two fellows beside Him. One on each side. One was taunting Jesus to prove Himself and call out to GOD and save them all. The other acknowledged Jesus as Lord and King. Admitting His guilt and was worthy of the punishment. Defending Jesus, saying, He didn't do anything wrong to deserve this punishment. He believed the Lord because he asked Him that when He came into His Kingdom to remember Him. He repented, admitted his guilt, acknowledged Jesus as Savior and was remorseful. He had a change of heart right there on the cross. Jesus told Him that he would be with Him in paradise that day.

Jesus prayed for all of them on the cross and said Father, forgive them for they know not what they do. His final words were, "It is finished."

Does this answer your question...?
in essence he promised heavely rewards to someone who was being killed for doing evil. Will you admit your prior statement was inaccurate?

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2012, 10:50:29 PM »

Other than the fact that Jesus acknowledges GOD, some Atheists have more in common w/ Jesus than they think. Jesus came to set people free from religion.
 

He didn't do a terribly good job, then. "Think not that I have come to abolish teh lawz...

Christians immediately set up a church, which proclaimed a Pope. I think his message must have become a bit garbled, in that mess of pseudepigrapha, known as the "gospels".

I personally think He did. Of course, subjective. But it's there if one searches for it. As far as the message being "garbled". it's not like His message was attacked from day 1. So it is no surprise that things have ended up the way they have.

And, yes, He did not come to abolish but uphold them. I personally feel that He made a clear distinction between which laws and what was of greater importance.

I also feel that He upheld the law by love. Really one of those Ah ha moments when you realize it. And who would have thought, it was there all along...

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2012, 10:55:47 PM »
It's really sad because Jesus taught the opposite. He never promised Heavenly rewards for those who do evil things. The opposite, actually.
What did jesus tell the man on the cross next to him? Why was that man also on a cross?
If I remember correctly, there were two fellows beside Him. One on each side. One was taunting Jesus to prove Himself and call out to GOD and save them all. The other acknowledged Jesus as Lord and King. Admitting His guilt and was worthy of the punishment. Defending Jesus, saying, He didn't do anything wrong to deserve this punishment. He believed the Lord because he asked Him that when He came into His Kingdom to remember Him. He repented, admitted his guilt, acknowledged Jesus as Savior and was remorseful. He had a change of heart right there on the cross. Jesus told Him that he would be with Him in paradise that day.

Jesus prayed for all of them on the cross and said Father, forgive them for they know not what they do. His final words were, "It is finished."

Does this answer your question...?
in essence he promised heavely rewards to someone who was being killed for doing evil. Will you admit your prior statement was inaccurate?
No because it's not like you've never heard of repentance nor of forgiveness, as well as grace. If these were not to have been written about, especially in dealing from within what is written, you might have a point. And is not like you don't have a heart in which you do not understand.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2012, 10:57:04 PM »
And you assume that these were Jesus' followers...? Why...? Because they said so...? Even Hitler "claimed" to be a Christian but  just because someone says it, doesn't mean that it is true.

Hitler's airplanes and tanks all had Christian crosses painted on them.  The majority of the nation thought they were a Christian nation.  Face it, you want someone to do really horrible things, the best way is to promise them a reward in paradise for doing those horrible things.
It's really sad because Jesus taught the opposite. He never promised Heavenly rewards for those who do evil things. The opposite, actually.
Jesus may not have preached violence but his DADDY sure did,and slavery,killing babies.....
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2012, 11:02:23 PM »

Other than the fact that Jesus acknowledges GOD, some Atheists have more in common w/ Jesus than they think. Jesus came to set people free from religion.
 

He didn't do a terribly good job, then. "Think not that I have come to abolish teh lawz...

Christians immediately set up a church, which proclaimed a Pope. I think his message must have become a bit garbled, in that mess of pseudepigrapha, known as the "gospels".

I personally think He did. Of course, subjective. But it's there if one searches for it. As far as the message being "garbled". it's not like His message was attacked from day 1. So it is no surprise that things have ended up the way they have.

And, yes, He did not come to abolish but uphold them. I personally feel that He made a clear distinction between which laws and what was of greater importance.

I also feel that He upheld the law by love. Really one of those Ah ha moments when you realize it. And who would have thought, it was there all along...
So I take it you are one of those I love Jesus but hate the church kinda guys?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline The Gawd

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2012, 11:05:56 PM »
No because it's not like you've never heard of repentance nor of forgiveness, as well as grace. If these were not to have been written about, especially in dealing from within what is written, you might have a point. And is not like you don't have a heart in which you do not understand.
But you said he doesnt promise heavenly rewards to people that do evil BUT on the cross thats exactly what he did... color me confused. The problematic part to this is that youve demonstrated that the truth is exactly the opposite of what you believe, even in this imaginary scenario. But yet, in the face of knowledge and facts (according to the book jesus promises heavenly rewards to someone who does evil) you choose to believe in whats clearly wrong.

My only question is: Why?

Online nogodsforme

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2012, 11:10:36 PM »
In a book as long and complicated as the bible, everything is there if one searches for it. Kill, don't kill. Love your enemy, hate your family. Beat your slaves, but not too much. Stone people to death, don't stone them unless you are without sin.

Baptize, don't bother. Obey your leaders. Pay your taxes. Turn away from the world and give everything to the poor. Eat my body, drink my blood. But not really. No sex without marriage, but have as many concubines and rape all the slave women you want. Or be "celibate" and hang out with just your boy besties 24/7. Not weird at all.

Metaphor, poetry, parable, history, literal account, god's undisputed word. Very clear which is what-- everyone agrees on everything. Written by unknown people. For unclear purposes. Edited and translated from several ancient languages hardly anyone speaks or reads anymore.
 
No. Not confusing at all.

That's why there are thousands of different churches with totally different ways of interpreting the same book.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2012, 11:24:52 PM »
No because it's not like you've never heard of repentance nor of forgiveness, as well as grace. If these were not to have been written about, especially in dealing from within what is written, you might have a point. And is not like you don't have a heart in which you do not understand.
But you said he doesnt promise heavenly rewards to people that do evil BUT on the cross thats exactly what he did... color me confused. The problematic part to this is that youve demonstrated that the truth is exactly the opposite of what you believe, even in this imaginary scenario. But yet, in the face of knowledge and facts (according to the book jesus promises heavenly rewards to someone who does evil) you choose to believe in whats clearly wrong.

My only question is: Why?
OK... you got a point.  GOD doesn't promise Heavenly rewards for acts of evil. He never has. However, He does offer restoration and forgiveness w/ repentance. No one earns Heaven. This is a gift for those who accept it. He has forced no one.

Why...? Do you understand the importance of forgiveness...? Have you ever done anything wrong that weighed heavy on your shoulders...? Have you ever experienced unconditional love, mercy when you didn't deserve it. It is grace that changes people. It is love that has the power to break the chains that bond and weigh so heavily on our backs.

It is the power of love that will triumph. The power of GOD.


Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2012, 11:27:00 PM »

Other than the fact that Jesus acknowledges GOD, some Atheists have more in common w/ Jesus than they think. Jesus came to set people free from religion.
 

He didn't do a terribly good job, then. "Think not that I have come to abolish teh lawz...

Christians immediately set up a church, which proclaimed a Pope. I think his message must have become a bit garbled, in that mess of pseudepigrapha, known as the "gospels".

I personally think He did. Of course, subjective. But it's there if one searches for it. As far as the message being "garbled". it's not like His message was attacked from day 1. So it is no surprise that things have ended up the way they have.

And, yes, He did not come to abolish but uphold them. I personally feel that He made a clear distinction between which laws and what was of greater importance.

I also feel that He upheld the law by love. Really one of those Ah ha moments when you realize it. And who would have thought, it was there all along...
So I take it you are one of those I love Jesus but hate the church kinda guys?

No, I don't hate the Church. I love people. I hate religion. Faith is so much better...!!!!

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2012, 11:30:27 PM »
In a book as long and complicated as the bible, everything is there if one searches for it. Kill, don't kill. Love your enemy, hate your family. Beat your slaves, but not too much. Stone people to death, don't stone them unless you are without sin.

Baptize, don't bother. Obey your leaders. Pay your taxes. Turn away from the world and give everything to the poor. Eat my body, drink my blood. But not really. No sex without marriage, but have as many concubines and rape all the slave women you want. Or be "celibate" and hang out with just your boy besties 24/7. Not weird at all.

Metaphor, poetry, parable, history, literal account, god's undisputed word. Very clear which is what-- everyone agrees on everything. Written by unknown people. For unclear purposes. Edited and translated from several ancient languages hardly anyone speaks or reads anymore.
 
No. Not confusing at all.

That's why there are thousands of different churches with totally different ways of interpreting the same book.

Understood but there is only One Jesus Christ who went to the cross.

Online nogodsforme

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2012, 11:35:10 PM »
In a book as long and complicated as the bible, everything is there if one searches for it. Kill, don't kill. Love your enemy, hate your family. Beat your slaves, but not too much. Stone people to death, don't stone them unless you are without sin.

Baptize, don't bother. Obey your leaders. Pay your taxes. Turn away from the world and give everything to the poor. Eat my body, drink my blood. But not really. No sex without marriage, but have as many concubines and rape all the slave women you want. Or be "celibate" and hang out with just your boy besties 24/7. Not weird at all.

Metaphor, poetry, parable, history, literal account, god's undisputed word. Very clear which is what-- everyone agrees on everything. Written by unknown people. For unclear purposes. Edited and translated from several ancient languages hardly anyone speaks or reads anymore.
 
No. Not confusing at all.

That's why there are thousands of different churches with totally different ways of interpreting the same book.

Understood but there is only One Jesus Christ who went to the cross.

If that was all that mattered the bible would be maybe five pages long.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2012, 11:37:15 PM »
Understood but there is only One Jesus Christ who went to the cross.

You area finally close to right. You're only one off.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2012, 12:02:31 AM »
OK... you got a point.  GOD doesn't promise Heavenly rewards for acts of evil. He never has. However, He does offer restoration and forgiveness w/ repentance. No one earns Heaven. This is a gift for those who accept it. He has forced no one.

Why...? Do you understand the importance of forgiveness...? Have you ever done anything wrong that weighed heavy on your shoulders...? Have you ever experienced unconditional love, mercy when you didn't deserve it. It is grace that changes people. It is love that has the power to break the chains that bond and weigh so heavily on our backs.

It is the power of love that will triumph. The power of GOD.
God doesnt promise rewards for acts of evil?
What was Abraham going to get for the murder of his son?  And wasnt there a punishment for the Israelites NOT murdering everyone in the land of milk and honey? The punishment is juxtapose to a reward. Again, rewards for evil is a regular theme in biblegod's autobiography.

I understand forgiveness in human terms, since that is how I exist. I have no understanding of being forgiven for things I havent done (original sin). Have I ever done anything wrong that weighed heavy on my shoulders? No. Not at all. Once I let go of christianity I was able to shake the idea that I was evil simply because I existed. And its evil to actually teach kids that. I cant look at my daughter in the face in all her innocense and tell her she's evil because she was born. Evil is a description of actions. yahweh fits the description of evil, I do not. He is in no position to forgive me, I believe the bible suggests that you take the log out of your eye before pointing out the speck in others... perhaps yahweh should read his autobiography.

Never experienced mercy because I never needed it or grace. I havent experienced the chains of which you speak either. However, my great aunt who used to babysit me, was born to parents WHO WERE SLAVES in their lifetime. Yahweh was okay with that, as a matter of fact he laid out how my great great aunt and uncle were to be slaves, and how they were to be beaten, as well as the proper method to keep them and ultimately me as a SLAVE.

Ironically, now it is you in the chains.

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #53 on: February 16, 2012, 12:48:02 AM »
OK... you got a point.  GOD doesn't promise Heavenly rewards for acts of evil. He never has. However, He does offer restoration and forgiveness w/ repentance. No one earns Heaven. This is a gift for those who accept it. He has forced no one.

Why...? Do you understand the importance of forgiveness...? Have you ever done anything wrong that weighed heavy on your shoulders...? Have you ever experienced unconditional love, mercy when you didn't deserve it. It is grace that changes people. It is love that has the power to break the chains that bond and weigh so heavily on our backs.

It is the power of love that will triumph. The power of GOD.
God doesnt promise rewards for acts of evil?
What was Abraham going to get for the murder of his son?  And wasnt there a punishment for the Israelites NOT murdering everyone in the land of milk and honey? The punishment is juxtapose to a reward. Again, rewards for evil is a regular theme in biblegod's autobiography.

I understand forgiveness in human terms, since that is how I exist. I have no understanding of being forgiven for things I havent done (original sin). Have I ever done anything wrong that weighed heavy on my shoulders? No. Not at all. Once I let go of christianity I was able to shake the idea that I was evil simply because I existed. And its evil to actually teach kids that. I cant look at my daughter in the face in all her innocense and tell her she's evil because she was born. Evil is a description of actions. yahweh fits the description of evil, I do not. He is in no position to forgive me, I believe the bible suggests that you take the log out of your eye before pointing out the speck in others... perhaps yahweh should read his autobiography.

Never experienced mercy because I never needed it or grace. I havent experienced the chains of which you speak either. However, my great aunt who used to babysit me, was born to parents WHO WERE SLAVES in their lifetime. Yahweh was okay with that, as a matter of fact he laid out how my great great aunt and uncle were to be slaves, and how they were to be beaten, as well as the proper method to keep them and ultimately me as a SLAVE.

Ironically, now it is you in the chains.

You're just talking to entertain yourself. By the way you're talking, you might give the wrong impression and someone would mistake you for Jesus, no...?

Spare me dude. You know every bit of what I was talking about. Problem is, you were listening and believing in the wrong person. I've been told lots of things too. Effected me as well. That was my tuning point. If I had listened to them, I'd be an unsaved reprobate not worthy of forgiveness. problem was, I was seeking them and not GOD personally.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2012, 01:11:48 AM »
What makes you think you are worthy of forgivness? more than say the 3000 kids who starved to death in the last hour?
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Offline The Gawd

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2012, 07:19:35 AM »
You're just talking to entertain yourself. By the way you're talking, you might give the wrong impression and someone would mistake you for Jesus, no...?

Spare me dude. You know every bit of what I was talking about. Problem is, you were listening and believing in the wrong person. I've been told lots of things too. Effected me as well. That was my tuning point. If I had listened to them, I'd be an unsaved reprobate not worthy of forgiveness. problem was, I was seeking them and not GOD personally.
interesting hypothesis. Why would someone mistake me for jesus? because i havent done anything so wrong that is weighed heavy on my shoulders? Please, spare me. The people that do such things are typically locked up behind bars. How much do you hate yourself that you think you deserve hell for the smallest of infractions? Put it to you like this, Ive done nothing that even suggests I should spend a day in jail, or doing community service, or any punishment at all... perhaps simple apologies is it. Why should actions that IMO require no more than a simple apoloogy weigh heavy on my shoulders and deserve hell?

That leads me to my next question. What have YOU done that weighs heavy on you that you deserve hell for? And I cannot promise that I wont contact law enforcement because youre obviously a danger to society unless youre typing this from a prison somewhere... that is if your wrongs are as bad as you suggest.

Offline One Above All

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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2012, 07:30:28 AM »
The fact that Jesus was terrified of death (even though he knew he would go to heaven afterward) and the fact that Satan rebelled proves that heaven is probably the worst place imaginable.
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Re: What am I to take from Jesus' fear of death in Matt 26:39?
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2012, 10:08:00 AM »

I personally think He did. Of course, subjective. But it's there if one searches for it. As far as the message being "garbled". it's not like His message was attacked from day 1. So it is no surprise that things have ended up the way they have.

And, yes, He did not come to abolish but uphold them. I personally feel that He made a clear distinction between which laws and what was of greater importance.

I also feel that He upheld the law by love. Really one of those Ah ha moments when you realize it. And who would have thought, it was there all along...

Why are any of teh lawz of greater importance, if Jesus saves all those who believe? Therein lies a contradiction of the Judaised version and Paul's savior religion.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

This is an erroneous statement that was started by a Pharisee that pre-dated Paul. The law is not fulfilled by loving your neighbour as yourself. The law requires that you redeem your first-born, stone homosexuals, have a feast every year with 10% of your income (or give it to Levites), stone people who don't observe the sabbath, cut off the tip of your penis, not eat pork, not eat blood, sacrifice burned animals, stone adulterers, stay away from naked people, cut off the hand of a woman who grabs a man's balls, kill all the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, not plow with an ox and an ass together, not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together, stone raped women (Deut 22:23), maketh any graven or molten image, lieth with any manner of beast,...

It seems like if you just love your neighbour, you are missing out on all the fun stonings and persecutions.

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I also feel that He upheld the law by love.

How is it love, to stipulate that you have to stay with one woman, or face hell? Surely, if both parties agree to divorce, it should be fine. Why should you get married at all? How can you derive marriage (which is primarily a possessive act) from loving your neighbour?

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And who would have thought, it was there all along...

Who would have thought that it was an old Pharisee idea that Jesus ripped off from Hillel?

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.