Author Topic: Burn or Bury?  (Read 7732 times)

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Offline atheola

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2012, 09:00:52 AM »
I wanted to donatr my carcass, but I have hepititist c and nobody  wants it. I can't donate blood or any parts short of maybe hair to bald people.
You better believe it's not butter or you'll burn in hell forever and EVER!
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Offline plethora

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2012, 09:30:03 AM »
Can I just say that keeping the ashes of a relative at home for years is creepy as fuck?
I don't want anyone's ashes. I'd get rid of them asap.
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2012, 10:12:32 AM »
I've always thought a Viking funeral would be kinda cool...but otherwise, cremation. I still haven't figured out exactly where I'd like my ashes scattered, but in the end it hardly matters.

Offline atheola

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2012, 12:32:29 PM »
That whole big wooden ship thing is probably kinda expensive. I'm just speculating. :P
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Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2012, 02:16:47 PM »
True, but cool nonetheless :)

Offline atheola

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2012, 02:34:28 PM »
Ya never know..you might inherit a big mature forest right by an ocean along with a bunch of ship building tools...and a viking ship building for dummies manual.
Then assuming you build an actual ship then die IN it you still have to find at least one firebug in the family. ;)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 02:39:13 PM by atheola »
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Online nogodsforme

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2012, 04:25:47 PM »
I have requested taxidermy, but I doubt that I will be able to verify that my wishes are respected.

Like ol' Vladimir:


Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline atheola

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2012, 05:57:09 PM »
Maybe I'll get shipped to Micky Ds and get distributed as 1000 Hap, Hap, Happy Meals!  :)
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2012, 01:01:02 AM »
Cremation and burial are superstitious practices, wasteful and useless.

I think all people should be ground up and used for fertilizer. The sad part is that superstitious traditions are so ingrained in us that while my solution is logical, cheap, and beneficial, most people would say it's crazy.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2012, 08:10:45 AM »
Similarly, funerals are superstitious practices - wasteful and useless!

All people should be forgotten when they die.  They're no longer relevant, after all.

/sarcasm
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2012, 08:19:15 AM »
Cremation and burial are superstitious practices, wasteful and useless.

They're not any of those things[1].
Not everyone can just forget about the dead as soon as they die. Many people miss other people. The funeral procedure might give some a sense of closure. To others it's a way to honor the deceased. It may even be both. I'm sure there are a lot of other things I'm forgetting, but you get the point.
 1. Assuming that by "wasteful" you mean that it spends resources it shouldn't.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2012, 08:56:00 AM »
Similarly, funerals are superstitious practices - wasteful and useless!

All people should be forgotten when they die.  They're no longer relevant, after all.

/sarcasm

As are birthdays, Weddings, baby showers, holidays....all susperstitious wasteful and useless. Clothing other than protective clothing is too. Familial attachments as well. People should just eat, sleep, procreate on occasion, and work.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2012, 09:23:46 AM »
Then, there's always the Soylent Green route...

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2012, 12:16:50 PM »
Cremation and burial are superstitious practices, wasteful and useless.

I think all people should be ground up and used for fertilizer. The sad part is that superstitious traditions are so ingrained in us that while my solution is logical, cheap, and beneficial, most people would say it's crazy.
No, they're practices which have become associated with superstition.  There's a difference.

I don't go to funerals because of superstition.  I go to funerals for closure and to respect and remember the life that the deceased lived.  That's the whole point, so that those who still live can maintain their sense of community with each other.

I suppose if someone wanted to be ground up and used for fertilizer in their will, I'd have no problem with it.  But I consider it wholly inappropriate to override their last wishes simply because it's "logical, cheap, and beneficial".  Plus, that opens the door to contesting other parts of their will for similar reasons.

Offline One Above All

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2012, 12:18:48 PM »
I suppose if someone wanted to be ground up and used for fertilizer in their will, I'd have no problem with it.

I thought about having my ashes used as fertilizer, but then I realized some people might find that unpleasant, to say the least.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2012, 02:50:49 PM »
Similarly, funerals are superstitious practices - wasteful and useless!

All people should be forgotten when they die.  They're no longer relevant, after all.

/sarcasm

Wow, stinging rebuke. You certainly put that strawman in his place.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2012, 03:00:14 PM »
What strawman?  You were deriding the funerary practises of burial and cremation as purely a function of superstition.  I was just pointing out that every aspect of our funerary practises can just as reasonably be viewed that way.

Which is to say, not reasonably at all.
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2012, 03:08:20 PM »
Azdgari:  Yep.

*tongue-planted-firmly-in-cheek*[1]  Dead people are dead, after all.  Whatever they did during their life, if anything, ceases to matter to them at the moment of death.  So why should anyone else have to respect their memories afterward?  Just toss them in a hole, incinerate them, use them as fertilizer...hey, I know, let's skip all that and just convert their actual bodies into food, the way farms do with dead cow parts to feed to living ones.  Even more logical, even cheaper, even more beneficial.  I bet the only reason anyone could possibly object to this practice is because of the superstitious traditions ingrained in them.

Or, perhaps, the whole "superstitious traditions" argument is overblown in the first place.
 1. We need a tag for that.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2012, 03:46:14 PM »
Funerals have purpose. Family members can gather to mourn and get closure. This is not superstition. I never even remotely suggested that it was, nor did I say that we should forget people when they die.

You're saying I said something I didn't, then arguing against that. That's a strawman.

On the other hand, preserving bodies for centuries by embalming then encasing them in an airtight tomb, as is the modern practice, is simply modern mummification. There is no afterlife, therefore no reason to preserve the bodies this way. It's also a huge waste of land and resources. It is stupid.

Cremation is less stupid, but more creepy. I mean if a funeral is for closure, then why keep the dead in your house? And how many generations are you expected to keep? Should my father pass down his father's ashes to me, and I pass them on to my kids, and so on? At some point, you've got a closet full of jars of human remains. That kind of crazy only happens for religious reasons.

By all means, have a funeral, say goodbye. Then let the city body disposal service take it away and make compost out of it.

It only seems offensive because it's new. I'm sure the first guy who said "Dude, let's set your dead mom on fire," or probably got some disapproving looks in his day.
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2012, 03:50:30 PM »
On the other hand, preserving bodies for centuries by embalming then encasing them in an airtight tomb, as is the modern practice, is simply modern mummification. There is no afterlife, therefore no reason to preserve the bodies this way. It's also a huge waste of land and resources. It is stupid.

It might make people relieved to see their loved ones preserved for "eternity". Just because you see no meaning in it doesn't mean other people don't.

Cremation is less stupid, but more creepy.
<snip>
That kind of crazy only happens for religious reasons.

What people do with the ashes can also be stipulated in the will, AFAIK. They don't have to be stored.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2012, 03:59:39 PM »
Cremations and burials have purposes that are not superstitious, which is the point we were making by bringing up other rituals that are not inherently superstitious but can be tied into superstition.  If you can acknowledge that a funeral has a non-superstitious purpose, why then do you insist that methods of disposing of the bodies that you don't agree with are only superstitious?  Especially since burial leaves a place where those family members can go in order to remember their dead, and crematory urns serve a similar purpose.

EDIT--Also, well done, joebbowers.  You've demonstrated that you're incapable of comprehending basic sarcasm.  That's what tongue-in-cheek means - that something should not be taken seriously.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 04:09:16 PM by jaimehlers »

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2012, 04:04:41 PM »
I also like Cemeteries for various reasons. They can be the only greenspaces left in a city that people are less inclined to "rezone" when politically or financially conveinent.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2012, 04:07:10 PM »
It might make people relieved to see their loved ones preserved for "eternity". Just because you see no meaning in it doesn't mean other people don't.

And just how long are we supposed to keep them preserved? You do realize that eventually there will be no land left for living humans if we bury everyone.
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2012, 04:10:51 PM »
And just how long are we supposed to keep them preserved? You do realize that eventually there will be no land left for living humans if we bury everyone.

I didn't say it was a good plan, just that meaning is not intrinsic in these matters. People see meaning in things others don't.
As for how long, not even the most sturdy of materials can last forever. Eventually the coffins and the bodies will decompose naturally, regardless of what was done to them.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2012, 04:16:51 PM »
Modern embalming methods are designed to preserve a corpse temporarily so it can be displayed at a funeral.  I don't know how long a coffin is supposed to last for, but I strongly suspect that it is not intended to last for centuries.  And as for "airtight tombs", I doubt that as well.  We aren't talking about Egyptian pyramid-tombs.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2012, 04:17:36 PM »
EDIT--Also, well done, joebbowers.  You've demonstrated that you're incapable of comprehending basic sarcasm.  That's what tongue-in-cheek means - that something should not be taken seriously.

Yes, you tedious moron, I know you don't really believe what you wrote, but you believe that I believe it, otherwise, why did you write it?
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2012, 04:24:06 PM »
Most modern coffins are metal, not wood, and the coffin is placed inside a concrete tomb when finally ready to be put in the ground. The concrete tomb is airtight and protects the corpse from both nature and graverobbers. This is fairly standard practice now.
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2012, 04:25:24 PM »
Yes, you tedious moron, I know you don't really believe what you wrote, but you believe that I believe it, otherwise, why did you write it?
I don't see why I should explain my thought processes to someone who thinks he knows it all.  I deal with quite enough of that from various theists who post here.

Offline BornAgainAtheist

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Re: Burn or Bury?
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2012, 04:34:53 PM »
I would like to cremated, stirred into a McDonald's milkshake and preserved for eternity in the back of someones freezer.
My hair is a bird.  Your argument is invalid.