Whitney Houston dead

[screwtape]

HAL's shock.  I'm awe.  Together we're Shock and Awe.

Yes, I am dead serious when I say I think her voice sucked.[1]  I know I'm not the only one.  "I will always love you" playing somewhere and I overheard someone say "scream it, Whitney".  Amen, bro.

I feel the same way about Mariah Cary and Christina Aguillera.  I would think more highly of them if they quit singing and became prostitutes.  They'd probably be better at it.  Celine Dion should be used for medical experiments.  Alanis Morissette should be fined every time she opens her mouth[2], though she is not horrid in the same way Whitney was.

I prefer Annie Lennox, Pat Benatar, Nina Simone, Amy Winehouse[3], or Fiona Apple[4].

1.	Heh.  I just noticed I made an awesome pun.
2.	unless she's bitching out Dave Coulier.  I'd pay to see that.
3.	yeah, she was a car wreck, but she could sing
4.	whatever happened to her?

[Truth OT]

Couldn't agree more. All that power ballad bellowing. It's just earache. Give me Adele. Now there's a voice and she writes her own songs as well.

What really got me was the decision to have a prayer to the god that killed her and even though she was an alchoholic and drug abuser apparently she's up in showbiz heaven and not in hell getting a red hot poker shoved where the sun don't shine.

I feel the same way about Mariah Cary and Christina Aguillera.  I would think more highly of them if they quit singing and became prostitutes. 

Actually, she's now in Soul Heaven.
I'd love to visit sometime!

I take it ballads and singing that involves near perfect pitch, exhibits a great vocal range, and is able to control notes and clearly enunciate words is objectionable to some. I HONESTLY never thought I'd hear anyone express such sentiments. Again, Wow!

[Frank]

Actually, she's now in Soul Heaven.
I'd love to visit sometime!

Just drink a lot and take loads of drugs, you'll be there in no time.

[Truth OT]

Actually, she's now in Soul Heaven.
I'd love to visit sometime!

Just drink a lot and take loads of drugs, you'll be there in no time.

But I don't sing or play any instrument well enough to get past security at the gates.

[Truth OT]

This thread makes me want, no need to ask this question: Can Good and Bad Singing Be Objectively Varified?

Initially I would have thought that singing is a matter of one's likes and dislikes and are therefore purely subject to the whims of the individuals. HOWEVA, that may accord for whether one likes or doesn't like some tpe of singing, what it does NOT do is set the standard as to whether or not said singing was or was not actually good. I wish to suggest that there are measurable and objective means to determine whether or not someone can sing as well as how well they can sing.

[pianodwarf]

This thread makes me want, no need to ask this question: Can Good and Bad Singing Be Objectively Varified?

I don't think so.  This harkens back to the old saying about matters of taste being indisputable.  I, for example, greatly enjoy anchovies on my pizza.  Most people can't stand them.  Neither one of us is objectively "right" or "wrong", we're only right or wrong for ourselves.  I think music is the same.

[Truth OT]

This thread makes me want, no need to ask this question: Can Good and Bad Singing Be Objectively Varified?

I don't think so.  This harkens back to the old saying about matters of taste being indisputable.  I, for example, greatly enjoy anchovies on my pizza.  Most people can't stand them.  Neither one of us is objectively "right" or "wrong", we're only right or wrong for ourselves.  I think music is the same.

If it were purely based on likes vs. dislikes I would agree, but given that singing and the notes sungs involve things like pitch and tone one would think that singing can be measured against the proper pitch and tone for certain notes and graded based on accuracy.

[Historicity]

Actually, she's now in Soul Heaven.
I'd love to visit sometime!

Don Cornelius retired in 2006.  Suffering from senility at the age of 75, this month he chose to shoot himself.

I just read an old Soul Train fan who finished that news with "Don Cornelius, rest in peace ... love ... and sooouul."

[atheola]

The music I like is great and the music I don't like sucks. That's as objective as I want to get anymore.

[nogodsforme]

Musical taste is a matter of opinion.

Whitney Houston was not my favorite singer, and neither is the rest of the Can Belto Diva School, including Celine Dion, Mariah, et al. They have pipes and they use all of them, all the time. It's a bit much.

Back when I Will Always Love You was on heavy rotation, a car went by with it blasting out of the window, giving Whitney's voice that siren doppler effect. My husband remarked that car alarm companies would make millions and no cars would ever get stolen if that was the sound that was emitted. 

I prefer some nuance a la Amy Winehouse. Although, as it turns out, she and Whitney are singing together now. Talent, looks, fame and money aren't enough to make you a happy camper if the rest is effed up.

[HAL]

I HONESTLY never thought I'd hear anyone express such sentiments. Again, Wow!

I don't know why you say that. It's simply personal taste. There has to be something you dislike, that other people love. Take chocolate covered grasshoppers. Perhaps you might say that was a disgusting condiment, but many other people love to eat them. Now, they might say the same thing to you about chocolate covered grasshoppers, if you told them you didn't like to eat them.[1]

"I HONESTLY never thought I'd hear anyone express such sentiments. Again, Wow!"

Music, food, art, anything can have the same thing going on - people arguing about what is good and what is not. There is no objective way to determine good art or bad art (or food or drink, etc.). And, whether she can sing in perfect pitch has little to do with it.

1.	If by chance you do like chocolate covered grasshoppers, just substitute another weird food item you hate

[Historicity]

In the 1970s a newspaper columnist said he knew a shall-be-nameless person in the business side of show business whose first reaction on hearing of the death of Elvis was, "Good career move."

[Chronos]

If she hadn't gotten mixed up in drugs Bobby Brown, she would likely still be with us today.

If you listened to Howard Stern, he likened their relationship as kind of like him being an out of control, coked out 4 year old, and she being his mother.  Apparently that was an illusion.

The concert I attended was before she got hooked up with Bobby Brown, so I think she was already headed in the wrong direction. Bobby just greased the wheels.

With that being said, one of the worst concerts I ever attended was a Whitney Houston concert -- around 1986 or 1987, can't remember the year for sure.

A friend of mine said the same thing about a concert of hers in 1986-87.  He said Whitney just stood there and screeched for a while.  Tina Turner was also part of the show - I don't know if she was opening or head lining.  Tina blew her doors off, running around the stage nonstop for about an hour.

At that concert I would not describe her singing as "screeching", but uninspiring. It was like she wasn't interesting in making the effort. The concert I attended was Whitney solo ... no opening act. I may have not been a fan of her music or the genre or her overly-produced songs that were shake-and-bake hitdom, but I was very disappointed to not hear the best of her voice at that concert. It wasn't anywhere near her capability.

However, I have been to two different Tina Turner concerts and while I don't think Tina's voice can compare to Whitney's, Tina Turner is the consummate entertainer - writer, singer, dancer, performer, whatever. She could upstage Whitney any day of the week and twice on Sundays -- hell, Tina Turner could upstage Jesus on his best day. Tina knew how to do her job very, very well.

[Chronos]

Back when I Will Always Love You was on heavy rotation, a car went by with it blasting out of the window, giving Whitney's voice that siren doppler effect. My husband remarked that car alarm companies would make millions and no cars would ever get stolen if that was the sound that was emitted. 

While I disagree on the quality of Whitney's voice, I do appreciate this description. It did give me a good chuckle.

[Astreja]

Astreja, then it seems as if your issue is with the media that puts these celebrities and all their business in the public eye, not Whitney herself.

That's correct.  What I'm seeing is that modern-day music celebrity cults put a lot of talented but vulnerable people into a volatile situation, with massive crowds; little or no privacy; a questionable remuneration model that depends unduly on live performance to keep the cash flowing; and manipulation of one's art and talents to produce a consistent product.

I'm not seeing quite the same crash-and-burn in the film industry where the stars tend to receive $X million per movie, up front, and where their films do the touring for them.  They still have the same problems with unwelcome attention from some fans, but generally don't have to face 25,000 of them all at once.

I'd also like to comment on the various singing divas from a musical POV.  Yes, they have voices with amazing ranges; but the actual melodies of the songs are getting lost in all that multi-octave warbling.  Vocal techniques such as vibrato and leaps of huge intervals are being used as the mainstays of songs, rather than as special effects at climactic moments.  Bad composition, bad arranging and vocal one-upmanship are to blame.

[Fiji]

The media does indeed love these drugged out, boozer celebrities. Gives them something to write/report about.
fe. remember Winehouse's breakthrough song? It might as well have been called "I'm comfrotable with my alcohol addiction". When she first surfaced, I felt 'rehab' was a run of the mill song. Nothing special, average singer. The media pounced on her, precisely because she was promising juicy stories down the line.
And now, there's Lana Del Rey ... again, Video games is an ok song ... but nothing exceptional. Born to die is even less noteworthy. But, again, she sounds drunk, she looks drunk, stoned or both. Media goes "if we hype this one ... loads of scandalous stories assured!"
Sex is too abundantly available. Sex doesn't sell anymore. Human car wreck stories sell.

[Traveler]

I think the music industry has a lot to answer for. It seems that it's very, very difficult to achieve any level of fame without falling prey to destructive influences. Whether we like her style or not, this is a human tragedy, and and a waste of a human life, as well as her talent. Perhaps if she hadn't been eaten alive by addiction she'd have grown into a mature talent without having to show off her range at every moment. The sad thing is that we will never know, and that a human being suffered.

[HAL]

Now they are showing the jet that carried her corpse, at the airport. What does the jet have to do with anything?

When will this end?

[atheola]

It'll never end Hal..once WH is forgotten the 'we love to make you sad' industry will be more than obliging to pump out a new and improved tragedy for our entertainment consumption.

[Frank]

I think the music industry has a lot to answer for. It seems that it's very, very difficult to achieve any level of fame without falling prey to destructive influences. Whether we like her style or not, this is a human tragedy, and and a waste of a human life, as well as her talent. Perhaps if she hadn't been eaten alive by addiction she'd have grown into a mature talent without having to show off her range at every moment. The sad thing is that we will never know, and that a human being suffered.

Nonesense. The vast majority of singers, musicians etc do not end up dead in the bathtub. Some of them end up dead on the toilet like Elvis.

[nogodsforme]

^^^^Bathrooms do seem to be disproportionately involved. Performers should avoid all bathrooms.

[plethora]

I agree that Whitney had an amazing voice in her prime. She was naturally talented. I understand that her death is news, to a degree.

What I can't fucking stand is people giving it waaaay too much weight and attention. People who had put Whitney in the back of their minds for the past 15 years now all of a sudden are pouring out their 'grief' all over the internet.

My FB feed is full of "oooh... it's so saaaad ... I'm devastated ... she was so young ... why? ... This has ruined my day ... music will never be the same ...  ".

Guess how many FB updates I've seen about how sad and devastating the atrocities happening in Syria are?

ZERO.

That's what fucks me up. People... get your fucking priorities straight.

Yes, Whitney died ... yes, she was talented ... yes, what a fucking waste. But enough with all the sissy fucking whining about someone you never met... a bit more attention to things that are far more tragic please.

[Frank]

They showed some of her funeral on the news. Man they really laid it on thick. I thought Kevin Costner was going to burst into tears. It appears she was actually a living saint and not the drug and booze addled trainwreck that the media and her own actions would have us believe.
Well according to Costner she's in heaven singing for god. The same god that killed her presumably.

Sometimes I think that this is the only reason religion exists. It gives us 3 social occasions when people can claim they are christian, Christenings, weddings, and funerals.

[HAL]

Well according to Costner she's in heaven singing for god.

I'm sure Biblegod approves of her abandoning her Earthly child for drugs and alcohol as long as she hits the high notes in Heaven. As long as you believe, you can f*ck up as much as you wish.

What a system. It's like selling water in bottles, why didn't I think of it myself?

[rev45]

My FB feed is full of "oooh... it's so saaaad ... I'm devastated ... she was so young ... why? ... This has ruined my day ... music will never be the same ...  ".

Guess how many FB updates I've seen about how sad and devastating the atrocities happening in Syria are?

ZERO.

That's what fucks me up. People... get your fucking priorities straight.

I had to get rid of my facebook because it made me hate my friends and family.  It showed me just how stupid they can be.

I'm very meh about Ms. Houston.  I think she had a great voice in her prime, the Golden Throat as my friends jokingly call it.  The music she made was catchy and I could find myself listening to it every once in a while.  But as others have said, her death is being hyped up majorly. 

[jedweber]

My FB feed is full of "oooh... it's so saaaad ... I'm devastated ... she was so young ... why? ... This has ruined my day ... music will never be the same ...  ".

It's funny because most of the people saying this now probably hadn't given her a thought in ten years, except to dismiss her as a drugged-out has-been. They certainly weren't there to support her sporadic comeback attempts, or they would have been much more successful...

[changeling]

I think the music industry has a lot to answer for. It seems that it's very, very difficult to achieve any level of fame without falling prey to destructive influences. Whether we like her style or not, this is a human tragedy, and and a waste of a human life, as well as her talent. Perhaps if she hadn't been eaten alive by addiction she'd have grown into a mature talent without having to show off her range at every moment. The sad thing is that we will never know, and that a human being suffered.

I think that every industry that pays intirely too much money to singers, actors and people that play sports,
contributes to the drug addiction death rate, and human destruction.
These people just can't deal with haveing more money than they know how to spend.

[Ambassador Pony]

Westboro BC dropped the ball on this one.

[Frank]

Westboro BC dropped the ball on this one.

If she's died fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan they'd have been out in force.