For the 1000th Time: What do you think the true purpose of the Bible is?

[Truth OT]

Seeing as to the fact that we all know that numbers are sacred ad holy, and round numbers along with the number 7 are especially sacred, I had to start a new thread for post 1000. In my vanity I could not allow my 1000th post to be a part of another's thread, nor could it be a mere continuation of a previously "ran threw" thread.

Who'd have believed that I would make it to post 1000 when I first started on this forum? And just look at the difference there is between my first 400 or so posts and my last 500 or so. It's almost like I have been born again or something! 

Anyhow, on to the matter at hand............

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On another forum I frequent, the question of what the purpose of the Bible writings is came up. Of course there were sides taken in attempting to explain what individuals believed the purpose(s) to be. From the perspective of believers of course the purpose always came back to the Bible being "God's Word" that illustrates to all of mankind how to live now and even more importantly, how to have an eternal life with God. From the skeptic's perspective there were a variety of answers ranging from it (the Bible) being a tool used to control the masses, a book used to fill in the knowledge gaps of primitive men, it being a textbook on misogyny, to a mechanism designed to support evil act and make those evil acts (like war, slavery, etc.) feel righteous to those that wish to engage in such practices.   

After reading through some of the responses I began wondering while people took sides at all and did not address the issue more objectively. So, I decided to open a new thread to try to address this issue as objectively as I know how in hopes having some things brought to light that can help people to see the light that I have seen OR help me see a brighter and more radiant light as opposed to a reflection of light that I mistakenly presume to be a source of light (like the moon for instance. we know how we need the moonlight it gives us).

[Backspace]

2 Tim 3:16: Scripture is for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

Happy one-grand TOT

[Truth OT]

In answering the question at hand, I think it is imperitive to make it known upfront that the Bible is NOT a single book, but rather a collection of letters, books, and other writings all compiled into a single canon. What that means is that rather than there being a singular purpose, we would do well to look for multiple and oftentimes differing purposes from writing to writing.

If we take for instance, the Torah and the OT books of history (Joshua - Esther), we find a supposed history of A.N.E. Israel and Judah along with what some would call propaganda employed to present those people as being special people chosen by the world's true master and creator. Within that history we can find what those people's governing arrangement as well as their laws and constitution were. In the end we see a warring people that were never able to find lasting peace, prosperity, and stability one would expect in a people chosen by the world's true master and creator. China is never mentioned.

If we take a look at the other OT writings for the most part we find GDR (God Dick Riding), prophesy of blessing or calamity, promises of peace, joy, and inheritance (land/region ownership), and proclamations of the utter failure of the chosen people and the promises of messiah figures culminating in one of those figure becoming king of a kingdom that would stand forever (actually for ages of ages since eternity or the concept of forever is no where clearly expressed in the OT writings). Again, China is never mentioned and all of the writings are from the perspective of and directed towards the supposed decendants of a warlord originally named Abram that had a son of promise he called Isaac. 
 
We get to the NT and we see that Jewish writings continue, only now what is written is from the perspective of Jews that claim to have found the culminating messiah figure and have been commissioned to share this figure's story and message to the whole world as they knew it starting of course with Jerusalem. The suposed decendants of Isaac that did not share the perspective of the NT writers had beef and objected to the NT writers and charactor's proclamations and persecuted them by turning authorities on the new sect of Jews and/or running them out of Judea causing the message proclaimed by the new sect of Jews to be spread to other areas. Again, no mention of China being included.

The Bible concludes with a series of letters supposedly written by some of the individuals who were being persecuted by the old school Jews and Roman authorities (The enemy of my enemy is my enemy, go figure that!). These letters tnded to emphasize the need to persevere through the difficulties because the promises made by the culminating messiah figure would soon be fulfilled and that they would then be rewarded with life and some would even be given positions of power and judgment within the kingdom of the culminating messiah figure. The were instructed to continue in the faith they had recently acquired, separate themselves from those that did not share in their faith as those that did not share in their faith were in danger of God's or the culminating messiah's (maybe they are one and the same?) judgment, and to love and share with one another.

Then the writings end, and here we stand living centuries after the supposed events happened and promises were given and many of our contempories as well as us at some point in the past may have looked at the writings in the Bible wholeheartedly believing that there was apurpose therein specifically for us. REALLY? REALLY? No, REALLY?

The best guess at finding purposes would be to say that the history portion was written in all likelihood to give a collection of sementic former Babylonian captives a history that unified them and gave them a sense of value and purpose.

The second part of the OT was likely what I call some 'act right'. It was written to try to get the people to stay in line under the 'proper' authority and to help in an attempt at keeping these people as a strong unified group in hopes that these people would have an enduring position of power and influence in the world.

Parts of the NT may have been written to say that since much of the OT went to $hi+ in regards to reality of the position the suposedly chosen people of the Master were in and what they had expected, that the Master and Creator would use their gene pool to give the whole world a king and conquer not only the world, but even death itself! The rest of the NT basically says, "yep that (the beginning of this paragraph) is true and everything it said is gonna happen real soon. Just watch!"

And people have been watching ever since........................


ps. I'm told that now, even a few people in China are watching!

[ParkingPlaces]

I have neither the biblical expertise nor any appropriate past experiences to respond directly to the OP. But I thought I would point out that one of the more telling flaws in the bible (from my perspective) is the multiple interpretations that it nourishes. From my point of view, one of the most telling flaws in christianity is the inability of it's adherents to agree enough on either the overall picture or the specifics to look like one group, under one deity.

A story called  by some the "perfect word of god" sort of needs to be held to pretty high standards. It should not be a book whose meaning is modified by people's whims on a regular basis.

That and the fact that some portions of the bible are never discussed in church services or bible study groups. Most christians are using a abridged and poorly constructed Cliff Notes version and hoping to get an "A" in life. Good luck with that.

It is apparently pretty easy to be a cherry picking fanatic when it comes to the bible. It would be much nicer if everyone who read it could do so with a critical mind rather than an empty one.

[One Above All]

From the skeptic's perspective there were a variety of answers ranging from it (the Bible) being a tool used to control the masses, a book used to fill in the knowledge gaps of primitive men, it being a textbook on misogyny, to a mechanism designed to support evil act and make those evil acts (like war, slavery, etc.) feel righteous to those that wish to engage in such practices.

This and more. The full list of reasons for its creation and acceptance is enormous.

[The Gawd]

OP,

If you ask what the purpose of the bible is, its simply to control the masses and accumulate wealth. You already touched on why. It is important to know that there really is no "bible" as in the "word of god", rather several writings that were initially passed by word of mouth until finally being written down. Those writing were never meant to be collected into one source, the manner in which they were collected and assembled needs no divine intervention, and the fact that the book has undergone countless changes proves that it had no divine intervention, unless that it that the deity is falliable (which is another thread). But what they did was collect the books that more or less agreed with what they wanted to say (if you ignore certain parts at certain times). This is also why other books were left out, they may have directly refuted what they wanted to believe (I know their arguments for leaving others out). Had they wanted to provide a mechanism for finding truth they wouldve given us everything and told us to decide what to believe if anything. They did not do that, they gave us what they wanted and told us what to believe.

So in order to see what the probable purpose was I look at what it actually did. It caused people to blindly believe. That blind belief resulted in control. The control lead to enormous wealth.

What it did NOT do, or things we cannot verify that it did were: save souls, lead to a more moral lifestyle, bring a better understanding of the world around us, bring people together on a large scale (or small scale as people were doing that w/o the book).

It served its purpose better than most things serve their purposes.

[changeling]

In answering the question at hand, I think it is imperitive to make it known upfront that the Bible is NOT a single book, but rather a collection of letters, books, and other writings all compiled into a single canon. What that means is that rather than there being a singular purpose, we would do well to look for multiple and oftentimes differing purposes from writing to writing.

On the contrary, the bible is a single book, put together from a collection of letters, books and other writings.
The entire purpose of putting these other writings together into a single book was to unify the religion so that Constantine could more easily control all of the religious people.  After all, Constantine controlled the priests.

[bgb]

You'd think as time passes, god would have regular updates to keep  his message relevant.

[One Above All]

You'd think as time passes, god would have regular updates to keep  his message relevant.

No need. The Word is perfectly perfect. Except for all the inaccurate translations. And the tens of thousands of different versions. And for all that "killing" stuff, unless you're an "ultra-literalist". And that whole "6-day creation" thing. And (...). Basically anything you disagree with or have proven to be wrong.
But it's perfectly perfect!

[12 Monkeys]

You'd think as time passes, god would have regular updates to keep  his message relevant.

God's believers can't interpret things as they see fit if he updates his word to be relevant to todays world. If you include the book of Mormon,he is even MORE of a racist than he was in the beginning. What would the 37,999 other denominations and all other religions do if he clarified? What would the theists do without free-will?,would they stop molesting alter-boys,stealing money from their victims,give away all possesions?

 More importantly would every athiest convert before they were strung up by the theists,or would the one denomination out of the 38,000 who had it right start the mass executions?

[Add Homonym]

It appears that initially, the OT was written as a law book, and protection racket for the Levites.

Then, as Israel stayed captive, there arose many theories as to how the Jews would escape, so they theorised a Moshiach would deliver them.

Christianity evolved to escape the Jewish context, replacing Jewish laws with threats of hell. So, it's a portable proliferating religion that requires no state to back up the threats. However, the top-level parasites harnessed it again, and used the new threats of hell.

It's probably pointless to ask what its purpose is, any more than to ask what the purpose of an evolving animal is. Being an evolving structure, it morphs into whatever is the most successful. Christianity has the flexibility to appear to be one religion, when most adherents haven't a clue what it is about. The objective of the top-level organizers, is to get people to go to the church, and donate money; bequeath their fortunes.

In its essence, it's still a protection racket.

[Tero]

A guide book for believers. With some ulterior motives for some of the writers.

[atheola]

It always struck me that with all the unrelated "junk" in the bible if it were to have had to wait till now to be written it mihht include the little books of Mao. Hitler Stalin, maybe a Bugs Bunny coloring book section, a DVD or so, instruction on how to use a condom, a medical reference book, how to BBQ for dummies...you name it... oh yeah, a Ronald McReagan speech... can't forget Ronny.. Hell, might as well toss in a coupon for a 1/2 price Fonzi t-shirt and a rewards thingy to put on your keyring.

[flapdoodle64]

Christianity has the flexibility to appear to be one religion, when most adherents haven't a clue what it is about. The objective of the top-level organizers, is to get people to go to the church, and donate money; bequeath their fortunes.

In its essence, it's still a protection racket.

The appearance of one being one religion, yet containing hundreds of variations and econcompassing innumerable contradictions,  with the meanings mostly unknown to the adherents...

Clearly this is arrangement works well the Bible, which is vast enough to find a quote to justify anything, and which containst vast sections that are essentially unreadable to ordinary 21st century persons. 

A hodgepodge of texts contained within one cover, with a simple title, giving a superficial appearance of coherence.  Works well with a hodgepodge of magical beliefs and profound sado-masochism.

[atheola]

All the seemingly never ending so and so begot so and so's could just as easily be copy and pasted from ancestry.com...who knows? Maybe that site goes wayyyy back.

[Truth OT]

Whenever such a topic as this is brought up, invariably there will be many posts that equate the biblical texts with the religion(s) that claim to use said texts as their basis. The problem with that depiction is that it is flawed. There is no organized religious body in existence that could take all of the biblical writings and apply them in unison collectively and come up with a single, clear, cohesive religion could arise from them. The ONLY way for there to be any religion in existance that is even remotely "Bible based" will by necessity involve cherry-picking and omission.

[Devils Advocate]

Isn't it possible that the purpose changed over time? For example, the initial inclination to record oral traditions may have been for historical purposes, rather than as a means to justify bad behavior or control the masses. Later additional authors may have had different intent, such as to control the masses or make prophecy. The fact that the Bible has so many different authors suggests to me that there may not have been a single overriding purpose, and that various authors may have held varying beliefs about the extent to which they were divinely inspired. I think it unlikely that Paul intended his letters to various people and churches to actually be considered sacred scripture thousands of years later.

And, of course, the purpose to which it has been put has also varied over the years, especially given the fact (as noted above) that it was compiled by persons other than the original authors, not to even to get into translation issues and disputes about what the true compilation should even be.

It is entirely possible that the purpose today varies depending upon person and situation, and the only way it could be said to have a single purpose is if were to actually be the work of a deity that controlled the whole thing from start to finish.

[atheola]

The only reason I can see for keeping it in print is for the jobs in publishing....and all those screwy right wing lawmakers.

[The Gawd]

And, of course, the purpose to which it has been put has also varied over the years, especially given the fact (as noted above) that it was compiled by persons other than the original authors, not to even to get into translation issues and disputes about what the true compilation should even be.

this is why the bible (which refers to the compiled writings together as the RCC saw fit) only has one purpose. Had the different writings been published as they were written and intended--without each other--then youd be correct. Each book would have its own purpose, whatever the authors' purposes were. However, the collection of stories has a purpose in and of itself.

For an analogy. Nuclear fission. Doesnt necessarily have a single purpose. But the people that decided to use nuclear fission in a weapon made a purpose out of already pre-existing knowledge. Notice the parallel between the bible and an atom bomb.

[Samuelxcs]

Can't we just forget about religion and be happy? Why worry about things like Heaven or Hell and the stuff in there? Even if they exist, why does it matter? If we go there, we can make them better places.
If you want to know the true purpose of the Bible, I believe it is impossible to know the truth unless you find god somehow, or maybe Jesus.

[The Gawd]

Can't we just forget about religion and be happy? Why worry about things like Heaven or Hell and the stuff in there? Even if they exist, why does it matter? If we go there, we can make them better places.
If you want to know the true purpose of the Bible, I believe it is impossible to know the truth unless you find god somehow, or maybe Jesus.

well, we cant because believers in these fairy tales use the fairy tales to affect the lives around them. Believers vote complete morons like George W Bush into the presidency TWICE. Believers commit atrocities BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE. Believers hinder science because it threatens their world view... while they use medicine and type on their computers. Believers vote to take rights away from fellow citizens because their god is also a bigot.

[Devils Advocate]

this is why the bible (which refers to the compiled writings together as the RCC saw fit) only has one purpose. Had the different writings been published as they were written and intended--without each other--then youd be correct. Each book would have its own purpose, whatever the authors' purposes were. However, the collection of stories has a purpose in and of itself.

For an analogy. Nuclear fission. Doesnt necessarily have a single purpose. But the people that decided to use nuclear fission in a weapon made a purpose out of already pre-existing knowledge. Notice the parallel between the bible and an atom bomb.

So in your opinion, the Torah could have a different meaning than the set of pages the Gideons place in hotel rooms?

Does your belief in a single purpose extend to how it is used today, are does everyone who uses the bible have the same agenda as the RCC?

And I am not sure I follow your point about nuclear fission (except that it is so much fun suggest the bible is like a weapon of mass destruction). Wouldn't your analogy suggest that with enough effort the information in the bible could be made into an efficient source of energy?

[The Gawd]

So in your opinion, the Torah could have a different meaning than the set of pages the Gideons place in hotel rooms?

Does your belief in a single purpose extend to how it is used today, are does everyone who uses the bible have the same agenda as the RCC?

And I am not sure I follow your point about nuclear fission (except that it is so much fun suggest the bible is like a weapon of mass destruction). Wouldn't your analogy suggest that with enough effort the information in the bible could be made into an efficient source of energy?

The Torah was put together in a similar method as the bible, no? BUT, you switched the word purpose to meaning. Two different things. I do believe all religious texts were put together to control the group. This belief is based on how I see groups being controlled by the text with no observable benefit.

How people use something, in this case the bible, has no bearing on the purpose of it. In prison people use sharpened toothbrushes to stab people. The purpose of the toothbrush is to brush your teeth. Whether someone can find a tertiary use for something whether good or bad doesn't change the purpose.

nuclear fission = different texts used to compile the bible
atomic bomb = bible

the bomb has one purpose. nuclear fission can be used a number of different ways.

[Devils Advocate]

The Torah was put together in a similar method as the bible, no? BUT, you switched the word purpose to meaning. Two different things. I do believe all religious texts were put together to control the group. This belief is based on how I see groups being controlled by the text with no observable benefit.

Ah, correct. I was mistaken to change the word. You are right that those words have different meanings. I should have continued to use the word purpose.

That said, while the method of compilation may have been the same (i.e., compiled by committee), I am less inclined to see the purpose behind the Torah as strictly for controlling the masses, perhaps because I am not as jaded by the Jews' use of religion as by the Christians'. I think there was at least an element of wanting to celebrate a shared heritage rather than simply the exercise of a political will, although there was probably some of that as well.

How people use something, in this case the bible, has no bearing on the purpose of it. In prison people use sharpened toothbrushes to stab people. The purpose of the toothbrush is to brush your teeth. Whether someone can find a tertiary use for something whether good or bad doesn't change the purpose.

Well, I could perhaps argue that the purpose behind sharpening the toothbrush changed the purpose of the instrument, but I see your point. That some people use the bible to try to make their life better in some way does not change the purpose behind the creation of the document.

nuclear fission = different texts used to compile the bible
atomic bomb = bible

Does this mean that you are willing to see some validity to some *portions* of the bible divorced from the purpose of its compilation and use for control?

the bomb has one purpose. nuclear fission can be used a number of different ways.

So if I follow you correctly, you would agree that atheists' use of some of the text to reason with believers might be an unintended use that could perhaps be good, to the extent it helps people break free from ancient superstitions and attempts to control?

[The Gawd]

correct in all counts.

As far as Jewish use of the Torah, I cant pretend to be an expert on how they use it in regards to politics, religion, and culture. I can, though, look at the text and things like the laws laid out in it and determine that it was an attempt to shape Jewish culture. I'm not sure that it matters because we have people classified as "Practicing Jews" and "non-practicing Jews" both considered Jewish.

Absolutely there are some good things in ALL religious texts that Ive read. But we have to sort through the non-sense to get to it. Why do it when you can just get the good elsewhere... or better yet, develop the good ourselves. I'm not sure its even possible to take just the good out of religious text because when you decide to believe in the text it becomes wrong to doubt the text as seen with christians making excuses for the mass of evil committed by god in the bible.

[atheola]

In another thousand years someone may dig up an old copy of a Sesamie (sp) st script and people will believe some green creature lived in the belly of a garbage can and went by Oscar who begot Elmo who begot...
then some right wing whack jobs will swear it's gods will to be grouchy.

[Hatter23]

What is the "true" purpose of any colletion of folklore? of Mythology? There isn't any. The Bible has served many purposes over the years; propaganda for the tribes of Isreal, a way of maintaining tribe unity of a dispossessed people, a way of maintaining law for the gullible masses, a justification for war, a justification for slavery, a justification for prejudice, a way of getting gullible people to go not question their rulers, a way for the literate to get out of doing real work, the primary vehicle for maintaining the feudal system, a guidebook of revolution against the old tyrants(so new ones can be installed), a justication for not having to think about long term environmental consequences in order to maximize profit.

The purpose of the Bible always depends on what people are using it for, nothing "true" about it, in more ways than one.

[The Gawd]

What is the "true" purpose of any colletion of folklore? of Mythology? There isn't any. The Bible has served many purposes over the years; propaganda for the tribes of Isreal, a way of maintaining tribe unity of a dispossessed people, a way of maintaining law for the gullible masses, a justification for war, a justification for slavery, a justification for prejudice, a way of getting gullible people to go not question their rulers, a way for the literate to get out of doing real work, the primary vehicle for maintaining the feudal system, a guidebook of revolution against the old tyrants(so new ones can be installed), a justication for not having to think about long term environmental consequences in order to maximize profit.

The purpose of the Bible always depends on what people are using it for, nothing "true" about it, in more ways than one.

disagree hatter,

look at it this way. When you were in school you had to do research papers, correct? When doing a research paper you had to use different sources. The sources you used were supposed to support your final conclusion. Your conclusion was the purpose of the paper even if the sources you used didnt necessarily have that purpose. For example, as Devil's Advocate stated, we on WWGHA use the bible to disporve the bible even though that wasnt/isnt its purpose.

The actual books in the bible would be considered the sources you used. The bible itself would be considered your research paper. Where YOUR research paper differs from the bible, I'm sure, is that you more than likely were taught to show differing opinions/theories/ideas/POV's and then to refute them. Its the only right thing to do in Academia where sound reasoning is supreme. The bible, however, does not do that because its not interested in helping you determine the truth, or give you opposing views, its concerned with dictating to you what to believe without question.

Why would that be helpful to the RCC?

[Hatter23]

What is the "true" purpose of any colletion of folklore? of Mythology? There isn't any. The Bible has served many purposes over the years; propaganda for the tribes of Isreal, a way of maintaining tribe unity of a dispossessed people, a way of maintaining law for the gullible masses, a justification for war, a justification for slavery, a justification for prejudice, a way of getting gullible people to go not question their rulers, a way for the literate to get out of doing real work, the primary vehicle for maintaining the feudal system, a guidebook of revolution against the old tyrants(so new ones can be installed), a justication for not having to think about long term environmental consequences in order to maximize profit.

The purpose of the Bible always depends on what people are using it for, nothing "true" about it, in more ways than one.

disagree hatter,

look at it this way. When you were in school you had to do research papers, correct? When doing a research paper you had to use different sources. The sources you used were supposed to support your final conclusion. Your conclusion was the purpose of the paper even if the sources you used didnt necessarily have that purpose. For example, as Devil's Advocate stated, we on WWGHA use the bible to disporve the bible even though that wasnt/isnt its purpose.

The actual books in the bible would be considered the sources you used. The bible itself would be considered your research paper. Where YOUR research paper differs from the bible, I'm sure, is that you more than likely were taught to show differing opinions/theories/ideas/POV's and then to refute them. Its the only right thing to do in Academia where sound reasoning is supreme. The bible, however, does not do that because its not interested in helping you determine the truth, or give you opposing views, its concerned with dictating to you what to believe without question.

Why would that be helpful to the RCC?

You aren't understanding...I'm not talking about how the RCC has had various purposes for the Bible, yes. I mentioned some.

I'm stating the Bible is a collection of Mythology, and as such doesn't have a purpose...other than if you think of it in a meta way to document that mythology. The Bible has no more "true" purpose than a lump of iron ore, or prehaps better stated a grasshopper....if you only think of the purpose of a grasshopper is to make more grasshoppers.