Author Topic: How Stupid Was Adam.........  (Read 3396 times)

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Offline The Gawd

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2012, 06:55:10 PM »
Sooo, why was the tree of life in the garden then? If god is all-knowing, he would know that Adam and Eve would never get to eat from it. I guess god wanted the chance to point at it and laugh as A @ E left the garden in shame.  &)
For some reason the mental visual of this post made me laugh uncontrollably.  :laugh:

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2012, 07:00:13 PM »
Sooo, why was the tree of life in the garden then? If god is all-knowing, he would know that Adam and Eve would never get to eat from it. I guess god wanted the chance to point at it and laugh as A @ E left the garden in shame.  &)
For some reason the mental visual of this post made me laugh uncontrollably.  :laugh:

Isn't uncontrollable laughter the best response to most religious ideas? :D
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline composer

Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #60 on: March 07, 2012, 05:03:51 AM »
They did die. Almost one thousand years later, IIRC.

yeah, that's what I meant.  I was just so offended I forgot to type that part.  They didn't die right away physically.  They died spiritually right away.
To die ' Spiritually ' according to christianities preferred Story book, is to immediately also die ' Literally ' which A & Eve did neither -

For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. (James 2:26) NET Story book

Then again in christianities preferred self-contradicting Story book, if you don't have much Spirit then you are blessed, LOL! -

Blessed [are] the  poor   in   spirit : for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Matt. 5:3) KJV Story book


Offline One Above All

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2012, 05:06:38 AM »
To die ' Spiritually ' according to christianities preferred Story book, is to immediately also die ' Literally ' which A & Eve did neither -

For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. (James 2:26) NET Story book

Thanks for that quote.
Do any other christians want to try explaining this contradiction? Why did A&E die almost one thousand years later rather than immediately, like YHWH said?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline orpat

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2012, 06:36:38 AM »
Guess it was a case of stupid cupid.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 06:40:34 AM by orpat »
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Offline gonegolfing

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #63 on: March 07, 2012, 09:22:16 AM »


Quote
Gen 1:28  And God blessed them: and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Based on this verse and the structure of the story being the way it was, it had to be that Somebody was going to fuck up and eat from the tree in this story eventually, and it needed to be sooner than later. It would have more than likely been the whiny jealous and murdering Cain that did so if Eve hadn't. But of course since the writer of the story was clearly a misogynist, it could have easily been one of A&E's daughters as well, but my bet would have been on Cain....but alas! he got the murder rap instead the poor bastard, and therefore the woman hating author of the story naturally went for the throat of the first woman that he could, to try and get his ridiculous explanation of life and morality across.

Adam wasn't stupid.....the author of the story clearly was however. In way over his intellect lacking head right from the beginning, and clearly wouldn't have made a good fiction writer.
"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline composer

Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2012, 02:30:12 AM »
To die ' Spiritually ' according to christianities preferred Story book, is to immediately also die ' Literally ' which A & Eve did neither -

For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. (James 2:26) NET Story book

Thanks for that quote.
Do any other christians want to try explaining this contradiction? Why did A&E die almost one thousand years later rather than immediately, like YHWH said?
Another self-contradiction these self-acclaimed christians need to answer legitimately is -

Why did their Story book imaginary friend tell the disciples to be as wise and intelligent as Serpents when so called christianity claims the Serpent of Genesis was a liar, which in view of the facts already presented it actually told the Truth, they didn't die that day and in fact christianities Story book god was the liar!

NB: Story book jesus extolled the virtues of the Serpent above itself and above its god and recommended neither of their wisdoms, but instead extolled the Serpent's Wisdom & Intellect - (cf. Matt. 10:16) KJV Story book

Offline Tero

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2012, 09:41:41 AM »
He had just practical knowledge in his brain. It must have been spooky to be born fully grown with no memories.

I think he avoided philosophy.

Offline MadBunny

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2012, 10:41:16 AM »
A&E were essentially animals.

They had no reason to *not* believe a talking snake.  To them, a talking snake would carry roughly the same weight as a flying creature with seven wings, or a donkey.
I mean look... it's talking.  Snakes don't normally talk, so right there it's got a bit more credibility than if it just slithered up and went "SssssssSSssSsssss" and pointed to the tree with it's tail.
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Offline Brakeman

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #67 on: March 08, 2012, 06:51:09 PM »
One of the problems in a corporation is that the "little guys" don't know who to follow. If a new guy does something a manager from another department requests, then he can get in big trouble from his boss, although the guy didn't know not to do so. Adam and Eve would have been in the same boat.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2012, 07:24:46 PM »
Adam and Eve were immortal before the Fall

But the tree existed before they ate the fruit which as I understand caused humans to not only be kicked out of paradise and to have to work the land and have pain during child birth... but also death.

If you read the pertinent section of Genesis closely, you will see that it does not state anywhere that Adam and/or Eve were immortal.  It doesn't even imply it.  To the shock of absolutely no one here at WWGHA, this has led to all kinds of disagreement (among believers and nonbelievers alike) about whether they were immortal at first, and if so, whether the tree had anything to do with it.

For all we know, maybe they were already eating from the tree of life...do we know they were not? Maybe it's like the sort of potion which keeps you alive and youthful indefinitely as long as you keep taking it. With their banishment from Eden, thus no access to the tree of life, they would continue on to age & die?

Makes as much sense as anything else.

Yes, it does, and that's the view that some people do take -- I think our own Graybeard is one of them, IIRC.
Indeed, that is my take on Genesis (I don’t know why I haven’t seen this thread before!) Genesis is a really interesting folk-tale, not least because it is written by several authors trying to get their stories straight, but because it explains the Yahwist death cult. I say that as the entire premise of the Bible is “Bad life here- good life after death in Paradise.”

Firstly, you have to see that the threat “Then you will surely die.[1]” Could not mean, “You will drop dead here and now.” – the authors, peasants as they were, were not stupid and would not kill off the hero and heroine before they populated the world.  Thus, “Then you will surely die.” presents us with the logical conclusion of the immortality of Adam and Eve.

The Tree of Life was no good to them - they were already immortal, but the Tree of Life is introduced only after the Fall of Man - the story-teller throws this in as we are required to find again the Tree of Life (or a good substitute) to return to Paradise and immortality.

The World needed populating and the story-teller had to have Adam and Eve doing it, so he had them live 900 years – his estimate of how long it would take them and their descendants to populate a city or two. And, if you read, how all the different jobs came to be.

So, Genesis explains the coming of death to the World – We started in Paradise as immortals and now the story-teller has explained why we don’t live in Paradise and why we are not immortal.

The Bible then goes on – not always directly, often taking side roads – to promise some everlasting paradise if only we are good.  Along comes Jesus and gives us an easier and more certain way of getting to Heaven and being immortal again.

On to the original sin – was it eating the fruit? No, probably not. See what the story-teller does…

THE ORIGINAL sin occurred before the eating of the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge – this is sin caused ALL woe upon the Earth and it is a sin that can only be committed by a MAN!

This sin stands directly behind blasphemy as the worst in the World; it is the vile sin of “listening to your wife or any other woman - ever.”

Ge:3:17: And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

The story-teller has God put the very worst sin first. Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, He does this for a reason. And the reason is "emphasis." Adam got it wrong Big Time! He listened to a woman!

Eve’s sin was the second sin in the world - eating of the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge.
 1. Compare this with, "Don't play in the raod, you will be killed by a car!" Obviously, it is possible to play in the road and not be killed there and then by a car
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 07:29:18 PM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline atheola

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #69 on: March 08, 2012, 07:47:02 PM »
You know
..for a mystery novel (at best) it's not a very good novel because the whole plot is given away in the first chapter or so.. the mystery being what we already know..we're screwed then much later this zombie comes by giving us a little wiggle room, but he's stoned, drunk and hanging out in whorehouses so his credibility is shit...
You better believe it's not butter or you'll burn in hell forever and EVER!
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Offline Samothec

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #70 on: March 08, 2012, 10:40:46 PM »
You know
..for a mystery novel (at best) it's not a very good novel because the whole plot is given away in the first chapter or so.. the mystery being what we already know..we're screwed then much later this zombie comes by giving us a little wiggle room, but he's stoned, drunk and hanging out in whorehouses so his credibility is shit...
  :D

I don't view jesus as a zombie since he was able to speak and, whether the living or dead kind, zombies aren't good at saying anything (other than "Braaaaains"). But some vampire myths have them rising after 3 days, they can talk and not all have a problem with the sun (that's specific to certain types). But I would be willing to go halfsies (I've seen the Venn diagram but dropping the Frankenstein's monster out) and call him a zompire (zombie-vampire).     ;D
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #71 on: March 08, 2012, 11:16:35 PM »
I thought that the original sin of Adam and Eve was doing the nasty dance. I mean, with all those animals watching and everything. Scared the horses. Horse. No reason to make two of anything else if god didn't even start out with two humans.

He saw that man was lonely and needed a helpmeet.

He saw that horsie was lonely and needed a helpmeet.

He saw ducky-billed platypus was lonely and needed a helpmeet.

And so on.

He saw that amoeba was lonely and needed.....oh forget it.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline sun_king

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #72 on: March 09, 2012, 12:42:20 AM »
You know
..for a mystery novel (at best) it's not a very good novel because the whole plot is given away in the first chapter or so.. the mystery being what we already know..we're screwed then much later this zombie comes by giving us a little wiggle room, but he's stoned, drunk and hanging out in whorehouses so his credibility is shit...

I would say its a reasonable novel. Life was good and then one small mistake, terrible suffering, wait for a hero, hero comes and delivers. Filler stuff includes lots of murder, genocide, global annihilation, "scientific explanations", anti-gay and pro-incest stance, sex, the villain turns out to be the hero's dad, troubles of being a single parent, BDSM and slave control.

As with the majority of the fiction, after the end we admonish "Really? THAT was the big plan, THAT was the solution???"[1]
 1. Similar to my reaction after reading "The Lost Symbol", "Inheritance" and "The Afghan"

Offline velkyn

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #73 on: March 09, 2012, 10:07:07 AM »
I thought that the original sin of Adam and Eve was doing the nasty dance. I mean, with all those animals watching and everything. Scared the horses. Horse. No reason to make two of anything else if god didn't even start out with two humans.

He saw that man was lonely and needed a helpmeet.

He saw that horsie was lonely and needed a helpmeet.

He saw ducky-billed platypus was lonely and needed a helpmeet.

And so on.

He saw that amoeba was lonely and needed.....oh forget it.

that's quite a observation and makes sense.  No need to have more than one of anything. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #74 on: March 09, 2012, 04:46:19 PM »
I thought that the original sin of Adam and Eve was doing the nasty dance. I mean, with all those animals watching and everything. Scared the horses. Horse. No reason to make two of anything else if god didn't even start out with two humans.

He saw that man was lonely and needed a helpmeet.

He saw that horsie was lonely and needed a helpmeet.

He saw ducky-billed platypus was lonely and needed a helpmeet.

And so on.

He saw that amoeba was lonely and needed.....oh forget it.

that's quite a observation and makes sense.  No need to have more than one of anything.

Begs the question of why two (or seven?) of each animal on Noah's Ark. Why not just one?  If god had a model or reminder of what each animal looked like, he could magically clone up a bunch more. (And why would god need a reminder?)

Or just save a couple cells of each species for later cloning. That way, you would have a chance of getting them all onto one big boat. And no need for feeding, watering, keeping the predators from the prey or mucking out stalls. Easy to keep the disease germs separate. Just need a couple thousand styrofoam coolers and some petri dishes and some refrigerators, and some basic lab equipment like microscopes, latex gloves, pipettes .....

Why haven't the creationists thought of that yet? Why is there nothing remotely like that in the Noah story? Because there was no info about cloning back in those days, of course, no awareness about cells, not even knowledge of disease germs among the primitive pastoralists. Back then, they only knew how to make more animals by having two, one male and one female.....

Another example of the bible not knowing anything more than what the people of the era knew. &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline MadBunny

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #75 on: March 09, 2012, 05:25:27 PM »
Why haven't the creationists thought of that yet? Why is there nothing remotely like that in the Noah story? Because there was no info about cloning back in those days, of course, no awareness about cells, not even knowledge of disease germs among the primitive pastoralists. Back then, they only knew how to make more animals by having two, one male and one female.....



It wouldn't matter if they had.  The main problem with 'creation science' is that it isn't actually science.  It's basically a block of text carved into stone that they're trying to rationalize the real world into resembling.  The harder they try the more obvious it becomes that it doesn't work.

The story of Noah's flood highlights the moronic nature of the Christian deity.  Lets face it, if you take say... five minutes you could probably think of half a dozen ways to solve that whole problem better (given that you'd be an omnipotent and omniscient being).

1.  A tailored virus.  It kills everything except 'not evil' stuff.  Problem solved, no need to destroy the world.
2.  "Poof" all the stuff you don't want is gone, or dropped into the sun.
3.  Nothing at all.  It's not as if 'evil' was eradicated anyway since it took exactly zero generations for it to re-appear.
4.  Reverse time, step on the snake before it starts talking.
5.  "Poof" version 2.0, just say fuck it and use a different planet.  There are, after all billions and billions of them out there.

Instead we're supposed to believe that the creator of the entire universe has some guy build a huge boat, somehow load up every animal and whatnot[1]on earth, flood the whole earth, replace all the plant life[2], all the fish life,[3] somehow put all the animals all over the world (again) and repopulate the entire planet from Noah's now inbred family.

THEN erase any real evidence of this happening and design the geological table so that it looks exactly like millions of years have passed.  Also, put lots of oil into the ground for no real reason.

I love the Noah's Ark myth, particularly when coupled with 'young earther-ism'. It's such an obvious pile of BS that even Christians can see that despite their built in blocks to rational thinking.
 1. including the carnivores and the ones that need more than 2 just to survive (eg: ants)
 2. Plants can't live under a mile of water.
 3. Fish can't just be thrown from salt to freshwater and back to salt water without dying.  Rain = Fresh water.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 05:29:25 PM by MadBunny »
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #76 on: March 09, 2012, 05:34:57 PM »
^^^^I know, I know! But I have read of accounts that try to use suspended animation, or eggs or baby animals to solve the ark's major room, poop, feeding, watering problems. I am wondering if the creationists have not thought of cells and cloning because it is too, you know, science-y for them? &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.