Author Topic: How Stupid Was Adam.........  (Read 3362 times)

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Offline The Wannabe

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2012, 04:58:28 PM »
how stupid was Adam....

he listened to Eve over his supposed magic god?  Did she make a good argument after eating that apple, being all smart now and him still rather dumb? :)

Yes, it's a strange concept, a man being tempted by the promise of something better than he currently has. I don't think it's happened since.

It's only happened about a zillion times in the last year, man.  Ever hear of this little thing called religion?
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2012, 04:59:38 PM »
Indeed.

The trinity just doesnt work for their explanations because it supposedly references "the word" and jesus, when the writer, Moses, would have had no knowledge of either. It assumes knowledge not yet revealed.

True, and again the Bible for the most part is a collection of henotheistic writings as opposed to monotheistic writings that describe a 3 in 1 god. Tradition and laziness are hard to overcome, otherwise such ideas would be a thing of the past.

Its obvious that the writer still believed in ALL the gods of the different tribes at the time. Or maybe yahweh and the gods are up there playing spades and drinkin jungle juice... they didnt want us to join so they left us on earth and created college.

 Crazy thing is, the idea you put forth may not be that far off based on what is actually revealed in the texts themselves. Check out the link below for a semi-descent biblical analysis of Psalm 82 and "gods". 

http://www.2001translation.com/Psalms.htm#_Gods

Offline magicmiles

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2012, 05:03:42 PM »
how stupid was Adam....

he listened to Eve over his supposed magic god?  Did she make a good argument after eating that apple, being all smart now and him still rather dumb? :)

Yes, it's a strange concept, a man being tempted by the promise of something better than he currently has. I don't think it's happened since.

It's only happened about a zillion times in the last year, man.  Ever hear of this little thing called religion?

Ever hear of this little thing called greed?
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2012, 05:09:50 PM »
Greed and religion go hand in hand.....the wealth of the Catholic church alone is immense
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2012, 05:10:53 PM »
You gotta cut this Adam guy and his girlfriend some slack. (They had to be living in sin because there were no ministers to marry them). How long had they been alive when all of this happened? What sort of feedback had they gotten for any sort of indiscretion? Not only were they not taught any of those precious moral values that christians value so much, they were effectively just kids. They had no opportunity to mature before the infamous fruit incident. No being reprimanded by a parent for stealing from the cookie jar, no spanking because they said a naughty word, no being sent to their room without supper for not eating their peas. They had no moral training. And any assumption god boy might have had that they would behave (obviously none, given his omniscience) was made up just so he could hassle the locals. Or keep the garden for himself. Or make life miserable, which was apparently his most obvious goal.

Whoever made this crap up was anxious to control others. Kids, followers, whoever. And the story stuck because parents who heard it passed it on in hopes that their own children would stop whining "are we there yet". And it probably worked for a long time. Or at least until Moses got folks lost for so long. Can you imagine how obnoxious the kids on that trip got?

Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline Historicity

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2012, 05:14:32 PM »
hmmm, so even God can't kill an immortal?

Hey, you just brought up a really interesting point.  I'm sorry but I am having a spiritual malady today (as the ancients or medievals would call it) that is, a 24 hour virus with about 6 hours left on it.

I'm trying to remember the names of the humans who were given immortality by the Gods in Greece.  One was immortal as long as a partially burned piece of firewood remained intact.  Another was a couple who had given hospitality to Zeus and Hermes when they were out on patrol.  And there was a third.   Both became miserable with old age.  The first died either when someone found the piece of trash wood and put it in the fire or when he was so miserable that he burned it himself (the ancient equivalent of a DNR order).  The couple were made into a pair of sacred trees.  The third when he was so weak he could only speak in an incomprehensible croak was turned into an immortal grasshopper.

In extrabiblical legend there was a guy mocking Jesus on the way to Golgotha, telling him to pick up the cross and get going.  His name was Cartaphilus.  Jesus said to him, "I will go but you will stay until I return" leaving the man wondering what that meant.  Decades later he found it meant he was immortal.  He is the Wandering Jew and he is miserable.  So the Ellinais[nb]Modern term invented for the ancient Greek religion.[.nb] had a curse of immortality and it was transferred to Christianity.

The New Advent (official Catholic) website says the story is known back to a book called "Flowers of the Histories" in England in 1237.  The story is online in this chapter of Curious Myths of the Middle Ages (1866).

Offline magicmiles

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2012, 05:15:18 PM »
Greed and religion go hand in hand.....the wealth of the Catholic church alone is immense

All that shows is that Christians, church attenders and others associated with religion is some way are not immune from the temptation.
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline Nick

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2012, 05:46:47 PM »
You gotta cut this Adam guy and his girlfriend some slack. (They had to be living in sin because there were no ministers to marry them). How long had they been alive when all of this happened? What sort of feedback had they gotten for any sort of indiscretion? Not only were they not taught any of those precious moral values that christians value so much, they were effectively just kids. They had no opportunity to mature before the infamous fruit incident. No being reprimanded by a parent for stealing from the cookie jar, no spanking because they said a naughty word, no being sent to their room without supper for not eating their peas. They had no moral training. And any assumption god boy might have had that they would behave (obviously none, given his omniscience) was made up just so he could hassle the locals. Or keep the garden for himself. Or make life miserable, which was apparently his most obvious goal.

Whoever made this crap up was anxious to control others. Kids, followers, whoever. And the story stuck because parents who heard it passed it on in hopes that their own children would stop whining "are we there yet". And it probably worked for a long time. Or at least until Moses got folks lost for so long. Can you imagine how obnoxious the kids on that trip got?
Are we there yet? ;)
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Offline The Wannabe

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2012, 05:49:44 PM »
Greed and religion go hand in hand.....the wealth of the Catholic church alone is immense

All that shows is that Christians, church attenders and others associated with religion is some way are not immune from the temptation.

 There are some churches that are undeniably fraudulent and are all about swindling their lucratively ignorant congregations (the Morman religion especially comes to mind), but most Christian denominations are completely sincere in wanting to offer folks "salvation".  Buddhists promise their adherents "nirvana, Islam promises the faithful "eternal life" (and in some cases virgins), and Pagan religions promise a multitude of "blessings" from a multitude of gods/spirits.  These are all examples of "man being tempted by the promise of something better" by religion.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 06:13:50 PM by The Wannabe »
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Offline The Gawd

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2012, 06:04:45 PM »
Historicity,

would the idea of that fella with the immortality still being alive get jeebus off the hook for coming back before this generation dies off? This Wandering Jew, would still be alive, no?

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2012, 06:18:09 PM »
You gotta cut this Adam guy and his girlfriend some slack. (They had to be living in sin because there were no ministers to marry them). How long had they been alive when all of this happened? What sort of feedback had they gotten for any sort of indiscretion? Not only were they not taught any of those precious moral values that christians value so much, they were effectively just kids. They had no opportunity to mature before the infamous fruit incident. No being reprimanded by a parent for stealing from the cookie jar, no spanking because they said a naughty word, no being sent to their room without supper for not eating their peas. They had no moral training. And any assumption god boy might have had that they would behave (obviously none, given his omniscience) was made up just so he could hassle the locals. Or keep the garden for himself. Or make life miserable, which was apparently his most obvious goal.

Whoever made this crap up was anxious to control others. Kids, followers, whoever. And the story stuck because parents who heard it passed it on in hopes that their own children would stop whining "are we there yet". And it probably worked for a long time. Or at least until Moses got folks lost for so long. Can you imagine how obnoxious the kids on that trip got?
Are we there yet? ;)

"No goddammit. Shut up and eat your manna."

"Would be nice to have some milk and honey to go with it. Kinda dry."
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2012, 06:18:28 PM »
Greed and religion go hand in hand.....the wealth of the Catholic church alone is immense

All that shows is that Christians, church attenders and others associated with religion is some way are not immune from the temptation.

 There are some churches that are undeniably fraudulent and are all about swindling their lucratively ignorant congregations (the Morman religion especially comes to mind), but most Christian denominations are completely sincere in wanting to offer folks "salvation".  Buddhists promise their adherents "nirvana, Islam promises the faithful "eternal life" (and in some cases virgins), and Pagan religions promise a multitude of "blessings" from a multitude of gods/spirits.  These are all examples of "man being tempted by the promise of something better" by religion.

I guess it becomes a perspective thing. I can't speak for the other faiths you cite, but I certainly don't know any Christian who became one because it was "tempting". It isn't tempting at all, on many levels.

I agree that there is huge potential for the church to exploit the bible to profit financially. Look up the story of Annanias and Sapphira in Acts 5 to get an idea of how God might look upon greed and deceipt in the church.
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Offline The Wannabe

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2012, 04:32:02 AM »


I guess it becomes a perspective thing. I can't speak for the other faiths you cite, but I certainly don't know any Christian who became one because it was "tempting". It isn't tempting at all, on many levels.


You don't find the promise of eternal life or the love of your creator tempting?  Why then, good sir, did you become a Christian?
"I would believe only in a God that knows how to Dance."  -Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline changeling

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2012, 07:00:21 AM »
Whoever made this crap up was anxious to control others. Kids, followers, whoever. And the story stuck because parents who heard it passed it on in hopes that their own children would stop whining "are we there yet". And it probably worked for a long time. Or at least until Moses got folks lost for so long. Can you imagine how obnoxious the kids on that trip got?

Moses wasn't lost.
That whole story was just to show people that if they follow God,
a two week walk can take forty years.
The level of dumb they have to sell, is only made remotely possible by the level of flocking their sheep are willing to do in the name of rewards for no thought. quote: Kin Hell

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Offline magicmiles

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2012, 08:02:49 AM »


I guess it becomes a perspective thing. I can't speak for the other faiths you cite, but I certainly don't know any Christian who became one because it was "tempting". It isn't tempting at all, on many levels.


You don't find the promise of eternal life or the love of your creator tempting?  Why then, good sir, did you become a Christian?



I'll get around to writing a post in the testimonial section soon
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline velkyn

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2012, 10:09:16 AM »
Yes, it's a strange concept, a man being tempted by the promise of something better than he currently has. I don't think it's happened since.
Well, per the story, Eve would have known it was better with her now knowing good and evil.  So, I guess Eve is still more honest, or more competent, than this god.

Religion is built on fear and greed.  YOu know, the promise that you could do magic miracles?  A perfect afterlife? Having prayers answered any time (JC constant promises those but Christians of course have to excuse why that doesn't happen either).  I love how you disingenously try to say those weren't "tempting".  Ah, Christians and their excuses that end up makign no sense when they forget about their own religion.

And oh yes, that being damned thing?  Sad that a god can't make a religion that depends on anything else.  I could and I'm not even a god.

Good post, Historicity.  Wasn't Cain supposed to be immortal too?

And MM, funny how your God doesn't do miracles so much any more.  That thing with Anais and Saphira, doesn't happen to a single Christian.   No one gets smited at all and there is no reason to think that they ever were.  If any of this nonsense was actually the case, why no priests dropping like flies because of their pedophilia? Or is God good with that?  Televangelists defraud people for years, ruining lives, before being found out and beggign for "forgiveness", and yet your imaginary friend does absolutely nothing.   
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2012, 10:30:10 AM »
Velkyn......free-will.....but then again men had free-will when he flooded them,when he smited them....blah blah blah
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Offline velkyn

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2012, 10:47:08 AM »
Velkyn......free-will.....but then again men had free-will when he flooded them,when he smited them....blah blah blah

I know, I'm expecting that too.  But, MM brought up Anais and Saphira himself, where god takes a direct hand, which doesn't work really well with that.   
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Offline Samothec

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2012, 10:54:49 PM »
But the tree existed before they ate the fruit which as I understand caused humans to not only be kicked out of paradise and to have to work the land and have pain during child birth... but also death.

It'd be like having day and night before the sun was created... wait.  :o

That is the usual claim about the lie that is "Original Sin". But consider also the fact that god tells them if you eat the fruit they will die - how can they know what that means if nothing has died?

If you walk on that white area you will bargle.

What does "bargle" mean?

You don't know and would be puzzled. If I reveal that the white area is an ice covered lake, you could reason out that I have created the word bargle to mean fall through the ice and die. You'd be right but A&E didn't have much of a knowledge base to reason things out. So, something had to have aleady died for them to understand God's statement. But those pushing the idea of "Original Sin" claim death didn't exist before the entrapment. So, they lie.

I had missed the other tree aspect of it - thank you. Now I have even more ammunition to shoot holes in "Original Sin".
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Offline Boots

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2012, 11:21:57 PM »
You know what was REALLY stupid???  If you recall the end of the story, gawd kicked A&A out of Eden, then posted an angel to guard the gate.

Why didn't he just post that guard in front of the goram TREE?!?!  THAT might've solved a lot of probs.
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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2012, 11:41:04 PM »
but in all seriousness, I thought the price of sin was death so why would there be a tree of everlasting life if there was no death?

Mind if I borrow that thought?  I want to use it on the very next person who claims that "sin" somehow brought death into the world.
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Offline Brakeman

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2012, 12:43:40 AM »
Did Adam first masturbate BEFORE the fall, or afterward? Did he masturbate before eve? Was that sinful? If he didn't, was it because god didn't let him notice the "itch"?
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Offline atheola

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2012, 08:22:34 AM »
Its the metaphor for Eve giving Adam a dose of eternal clap and we've had sore hips ever since from gods shots of penicilin he imported from some shady pharmaceutical company in Mumbai India...drip...drip...drip.. :?
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Offline The Gawd

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2012, 09:19:23 AM »
but in all seriousness, I thought the price of sin was death so why would there be a tree of everlasting life if there was no death?

Mind if I borrow that thought?  I want to use it on the very next person who claims that "sin" somehow brought death into the world.
Have at it, I dont even know if its right or not... The more I read that piece of fiction the more I'm certain that it says nothing at all.

Offline Discern

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2012, 05:05:05 AM »
So how did Eve disobey God if she didn't yet know what evil was?  Isn't disobedience to God considered a sin?

One might say that she was ignorant (like mentioned in a previous post), but that's certainly not fair. What psycho would punish their child for doing something wrong out of innocence?

Offline velkyn

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2012, 09:12:26 AM »
So how did Eve disobey God if she didn't yet know what evil was?  Isn't disobedience to God considered a sin?

One might say that she was ignorant (like mentioned in a previous post), but that's certainly not fair. What psycho would punish their child for doing something wrong out of innocence?

indeed.  Christians are stuck with their bible which makes their god seem less coherent than the nutty Greek gods.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2012, 03:42:06 PM »
So how did Eve disobey God if she didn't yet know what evil was?  Isn't disobedience to God considered a sin?

One might say that she was ignorant (like mentioned in a previous post), but that's certainly not fair. What psycho would punish their child for doing something wrong out of innocence?

Especially since god is all-powerful and all-knowing. There is no way he can also be considered loving or caring, after what he did to Adam and Eve. Did he have to put that tree in the garden to "test" his new creations, knowing they would fail?
 
That means god: a) set everything up in advance so Eve would have no choice but to disobey him, b)knew in advance that she would disobey him, and c)imposed a newly invented punishment that was horribly unfair and way out of proportion to the misdeed. None of which he had to do if he was really all-powerful.

It's like betting a friend $100 that he will not say any curse words for one hour, and then tricking him into walking barefoot across a dark room with tacks all over the floor. He steps on the tacks and yells, "SH!T" at which you jump out and say, "Gotcha! Gimme the hundred bucks, plus the $500 cost of cleaning your blood off my carpets!" Any reasonable person would say that, even though you technically won the bet, it was an unfair setup and that you were a big, fat, evil, scheming, psycho a$$hole.

So, yes, god is either one big, fat, evil, scheming, psycho a$$hole. >:(
Or better yet, he does not exist. :D
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Discern

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2012, 07:45:12 AM »
If you read the pertinent section of Genesis closely, you will see that it does not state anywhere that Adam and/or Eve were immortal.

"When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned." (Romans 5:12)

That's why christians believe Adam and Eve were immortal.  But it's true, technically it doesn't say in Genesis, so the Jews may have had a different perspective on Adam and Eve's mortality.

The "knowledge" gained from eating from the first tree would make ME immediatly eat from the second tree.

oh man, I just heard a sermon where the pastor explained this problem:

Once Adam ate the fruit, he became fallen and the curse of sin was upon him. If he chose to eat from the Tree of Life, then it would grant him eternal life in his fallen state - never to be reconciled to God. So that's why God wanted to make sure he didn't eat from the tree of life afterwards - God was concerned for his soul.

The convoluted apologetics of christianity knows no bounds.


Offline nogodsforme

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Re: How Stupid Was Adam.........
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2012, 06:10:29 PM »
Sooo, why was the tree of life in the garden then? If god is all-knowing, he would know that Adam and Eve would never get to eat from it. I guess god wanted the chance to point at it and laugh as A @ E left the garden in shame.  &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.