Author Topic: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?  (Read 3693 times)

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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #174 on: February 12, 2012, 02:28:04 PM »
A non-physical source. I suspect my meaning was pretty clear.
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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #175 on: February 12, 2012, 02:34:31 PM »
A non-physical source. I suspect my meaning was pretty clear.

To reiterate:
Someone needs to study biology.
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Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #176 on: February 12, 2012, 02:40:12 PM »
magicmiles,

I'm not a moderator, but please don't quote large sums of information like you did if all you are going to do is respond to the very last few sentences.  I made a lot of what I think are valid points and you chose instead to respond to one tiny bit of it without acknowledging anything else.  That's incredibly frustrating. 

Jeff, I don't go around calling myself or anyone else evil on a daily basis, because the context 99% of the time just isn't right. The word evil is accepted by society to refer to the worst type of mis-deed. I accept that.

Do you think the word evil means something other than what society has accepted?   

And perhaps when you hear of heart breaking tragedies you might question how a collection of cells can suffer such non physical pain and distress, and can have such a powerful need for justice.

If everyone is evil, then why do YOU feel the need for justice?  How can you view tragedies as heartbreaking if you believe everyone to be evil? What is so sad about 20,000 + children dying every day from starvation if they are all just evil humans to begin with? 

Aside from that, just because YOU can't understand how a collection of cells can naturally evolve to develop a sense of empathy, doesn't mean nobody else does. 

Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #177 on: February 12, 2012, 06:13:18 PM »
^^^^Good questions for Christians of "we are all horrible sinners who deserve death" crowd. Why is it sad when a bunch of us horrible sinners die? Newborn babies, starving children, sweet little old ladies, and psycho serial killers are all in the same sinful boat, right ?

God can't stand being in the presence of evil, whether it's stealing the entire pension fund from a million schoolteachers, or stealing a cookie from the kitchen. Lying and getting an innocent person put on death row, or lying about stealing the cookie. Running an extermination camp that kills millions, and smacking our older brother for tattling on us about the cookie. Evil is evil.

Isn't death just what we all deserve?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #178 on: February 12, 2012, 06:39:53 PM »

I'm not a moderator, but please don't quote large sums of information like you did if all you are going to do is respond to the very last few sentences.  I made a lot of what I think are valid points and you chose instead to respond to one tiny bit of it without acknowledging anything else.  That's incredibly frustrating. 


Sorry. No problem.


Do you think the word evil means something other than what society has accepted? 

No. Evil means doing something totally abhorent. If my son or daughter disobey I don't call them evil kids.

HoweverI think we are poor judges of what is truly evil, and we struggle to comprehend that any wrongdoing is considered evil by God. Again, the key is to get a sense of how holy God is. That is difficult even for Christians, so I understand why a non-Christian mocks the idea.

I don't shy away from telling somebody that their actions are evil to God ( if the situation warrants...such as on an internet forum discussing God, or if I am discussing God with someone generally. I don't scream at people on street corners ). I also make sure I stress that God took care of the problem at the cross.


If everyone is evil, then why do YOU feel the need for justice?  How can you view tragedies as heartbreaking if you believe everyone to be evil? What is so sad about 20,000 + children dying every day from starvation if they are all just evil humans to begin with? 

Aside from that, just because YOU can't understand how a collection of cells can naturally evolve to develop a sense of empathy, doesn't mean nobody else does.

I feel the need for justice same as you because we are both humans with souls and we both see evil done in the world and hate it. The circumstances of a tragedy don't diminish the tragedy.

I might not have such difficulty in understanding how a human can develop empathy without some external moral agent, but we feel so much more than empathy at certain times.
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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #179 on: February 12, 2012, 06:44:16 PM »
No. Evil means doing something totally abhorent. If my son or daughter disobey I don't call them evil kids.

Your god does.

HoweverI think we are poor judges of what is truly evil, and we struggle to comprehend that any wrongdoing is considered evil by God. Again, the key is to get a sense of how holy God is. That is difficult even for Christians, so I understand why a non-Christian mocks the idea.

What does that even mean? "how holy God [sic] is"?

I don't shy away from telling somebody that their actions are evil to God ( if the situation warrants...such as on an internet forum discussing God, or if I am discussing God with someone generally. I don't scream at people on street corners ). I also make sure I stress that God took care of the problem at the cross.

So why point out the "evil" in the first place? That's like saying to a post-op patient that they still need surgery.

I feel the need for justice same as you because we are both humans with souls and we both see evil done in the world and hate it. The circumstances of a tragedy don't diminish the tragedy.

1: Prove we have souls.
2: Prove these souls are responsible for empathy.
3: Speak for yourself. There is only one thing (or rather, one group of things) I hate.

I might not have such difficulty in understanding how a human can develop empathy without some external moral agent, but we feel so much more than empathy at certain times.

And how does this prove anything, other than in different situations people react differently?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #180 on: February 12, 2012, 06:45:16 PM »

Isn't death just what we all deserve?

Yes. But we don't have to choose it.
Go on up you baldhead.

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #181 on: February 12, 2012, 06:46:45 PM »

Isn't death just what we all deserve?

Yes. But we don't have to choose it.

This is why I think that theism makes life meaningless. "We all deserve death" is an abhorrent thing to say and uphold.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #182 on: February 12, 2012, 06:59:48 PM »

Your god does.

And you disagree. I know.


What does that even mean? "how holy God [sic] is"?

I think the best we can hope to understand it is know that He is the perfect father who loves us more than we can fully comprehend, hates sin more than we can  fully compehend and demands justice in a way that we can't fully comprehend. We get a sense of it because we are made in His image, but the picture has become distorted.

I don't shy away from telling somebody that their actions are evil to God ( if the situation warrants...such as on an internet forum discussing God, or if I am discussing God with someone generally. I don't scream at people on street corners ). I also make sure I stress that God took care of the problem at the cross.


So why point out the "evil" in the first place? That's like saying to a post-op patient that they still need surgery.

Because Christians are commanded to, and because we don't want people to face Jesus having rejected Him.


1: Prove we have souls.
2: Prove these souls are responsible for empathy.
3: Speak for yourself. There is only one thing (or rather, one group of things) I hate.

1 - I can't
2 - I can't
3 - All I hope to do is speak for myself and explain what I beleive about God.



And how does this prove anything, other than in different situations people react differently?

Proves nothing, but it speaks powerfully to me that I have a soul as opposed to a body only.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #183 on: February 12, 2012, 07:03:12 PM »

Isn't death just what we all deserve?

Yes. But we don't have to choose it.

This is why I think that theism makes life meaningless. "We all deserve death" is an abhorrent thing to say and uphold.

It's difficult to accept, certainly. That doesn't mean it's not true.
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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #184 on: February 12, 2012, 07:09:46 PM »
And you disagree. I know.

I was just pointing out that you disagree with what you claim to be the basis of morality. So that makes you evil (by your deity's standards).
Do not assume you know what I think.

I think the best we can hope to understand it is know that He is the perfect father who loves us more than we can fully comprehend, hates sin more than we can  fully compehend and demands justice in a way that we can't fully comprehend. We get a sense of it because we are made in His image, but the picture has become distorted.

You and I have a very different definition of "perfect". Your version is fallible and is anthropomorphic. Mine is not.

Because Christians are commanded to,

I must have missed the commandment that said "Judge, even if ye is not judged".

and because we don't want people to face Jesus having rejected Him.

And by saying that people are evil and inferior will help you in getting them to worship an imaginary being that supposedly loves them despite all their flaws and has sacrificed itself to itself to make it so their evil is irrelevant.
Seems legit.

1 - I can't
2 - I can't
3 - All I hope to do is speak for myself and explain what I beleive about God.

1&2: Then you should not make claims like that.
3: You were speaking for everyone, and it had nothing to do with what you believe about your god.

Proves nothing, but it speaks powerfully to me that I have a soul as opposed to a body only.

So, by your logic, rocks have souls, since they also react differently under different circumstances. Good to know.

It's difficult to accept, certainly. That doesn't mean it's not true.

I did not say it was true or false. Just that it was abhorrent. And it is. It's also false. One cannot deserve anything when one hasn't done anything. Punishing people for what they didn't do is the very definition of unfairness.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 07:26:39 PM by Lucifer »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #185 on: February 12, 2012, 07:36:45 PM »

You and I have a very different definition of "perfect". Your version is fallible and is anthropomorphic. Mine is not.

Could you be any more arrogant? I'm guessing so.
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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #186 on: February 12, 2012, 07:41:57 PM »
Could you be any more arrogant? I'm guessing so.

How am I being arrogant by explaining that your definition of perfect (which is painfully obvious from your posts) is different from my own?
I'm guessing that by "arrogant" you mean "You have a different opinion than my own, therefore you must be arrogant, because I'm right and you're not".
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #187 on: February 12, 2012, 07:48:50 PM »
You claimed your idea of 'perfect' was infalible. That's arrogance, as I understand arrogance.
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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #188 on: February 12, 2012, 08:22:12 PM »
I feel the need for justice same as you because we are both humans with souls and we both see evil done in the world and hate it.

Apart from your use of the word 'souls' here, I would agree.  There is no such thing as a soul.  But the difference between us is that I love humanity.  I don't see everyone as evil.  So when I see tragedy, my reaction is sadness.  If I viewed everyone as evil, I highly doubt I would think of tragedies as sad.  I might see 20,000 starving kids as having deserved it if I thought all of them were evil. 

So I ask you again... if you truly feel that all people are evil sinners (something I'm doubting of you more and more every minute), why do you have any reason to feel sad if tragic events befall them?  It may be your instinct to see tragedy as a bad thing, but your belief system says otherwise.   

I might not have such difficulty in understanding how a human can develop empathy without some external moral agent, but we feel so much more than empathy at certain times.

Which emotion do you feel could NOT POSSIBLY have developed naturally? 

I think the best we can hope to understand it is know that He is the perfect father who loves us more than we can fully comprehend, hates sin more than we can  fully compehend and demands justice in a way that we can't fully comprehend. We get a sense of it because we are made in His image, but the picture has become distorted.

Alright, now this is something you have to be called out on.  Your response here is just ridiculous.  This is not something that a rational person could look at the world and say with a straight face.  He's a perfect father even though he allows things to happen to his children that an imperfect father (such as yourself) would never allow.  He loves us more than we can fully comprehend, even though He doesn't show it in the least.  He hates sin more than we comprehend, yet he allows it to happen all the God damn time.  And his demand for justice is something we can't comprehend, but is never actually observed during our lifetimes... only after we're dead and can't prove it. 

Do you realize that all of this COULD be nonsense?  Really, it could.  It's entirely possible.  By saying we don't understand God, all you are doing is excusing away the fact that the world looks as if there is no God that loves us more than we can ever know, that there is no God that demands ultimate justice, and that there is no God who hates sin more than anything.  You believe it, but you really, REALLY could be completely wrong here.  Are you so brainwashed that you can't even see that's what you're doing?  Just think about it. 

If I made up a God and gave it any characteristics I wanted, do you know how I would explain how it could exist in our current reality? The same way you do.  I would say that we simply don't have a full understanding of his ways.  That's a very easy way to weasel out of having to explain things coherently.  I hope you can see that's all you're doing here.  It's a lame, cheap tactic that anyone can use to justify belief in any god they want. Here's a couple examples:  I could say that my god is the ultimate evil, but since there is a decent amount of 'good' that happens in this world, I would say that we just don't have a good understanding of what the ultimate evil was.  I could say that my god wants everyone to be tall, but since not everyone is tall, I could just say that we have an imperfect understanding of the word 'tall'. 

It's all bullshit man.  All of it.  Everyone who's ever told you that the Christian God was real is wrong.  They just are. 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #189 on: February 12, 2012, 09:01:17 PM »

Isn't death just what we all deserve?

Yes. But we don't have to choose it.

I suppose as an atheist who has no reason to believe in any supernatural beings, I have "chosen death". So be it. I'll be extra careful when crossing the street, and make sure I avoid sex with HIV-positive prostitutes. That takes care of me.

But do all the millions of fetuses that god aborts through miscarriages choose death? How do starving babies or kids with leukemia choose death? How did those two little boys killed by their father in Washington State choose death? Were they so evil they deserved to die by being chopped up and then burned in a fire?

Or are you going to duck out of this by saying you mean "spiritual death", not real death death.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #190 on: February 12, 2012, 09:03:17 PM »

Apart from your use of the word 'souls' here, I would agree.  There is no such thing as a soul.  But the difference between us is that I love humanity.  I don't see everyone as evil.  So when I see tragedy, my reaction is sadness.  If I viewed everyone as evil, I highly doubt I would think of tragedies as sad.  I might see 20,000 starving kids as having deserved it if I thought all of them were evil. 

I also love humanity - most of it. I don't view everyone as evil - that's what I tried to say in my last post to you. By that I mean, on a day to day basis I don't walk around thinking about all the evil people around me. I think about the nice people, the good people, the impatient people, the rude people..etc etc. But , I recognise that to God, even what we consider small mis-deeds are an abomination. Even then, the old saying needs to recognised: love the sinner, hate the sin. I do that to the best of my ability, and God does it much better.


Which emotion do you feel could NOT POSSIBLY have developed naturally? 

Just the sheer enormity of the outrage we feel at some things, certain injustices. I've never believed that social conditioning can properly explain that. If that was the case, wouldn't the outrage be less personally painful? When you hear of the child raped and tortured, do you think " That's terrible...that person has gone against a rule of society. Our society won't function properly if this is allowed to happen".

Of course not. Our response is so much more personal and filled with horror and a demand for justice that I couldn't even try to express it in an example.


I'll give the rest of your post some more thought.
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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #191 on: February 12, 2012, 09:26:32 PM »
The emotional response we have is called empathy-- we imagine what it would be like to have that happen to us or to our kids. And usually, the more the victim is similar to ourselves or someone close to us, the stronger the emotional reaction of empathy.

What is strange is how bent out of shape people get over the breaking of religious rules, how transgressions against imaginary beings can interrupt normal empathy. Like, how mad god must be over gays having the affrontery to get married, have families, raise kids and have happy lives like normal people! It must just burn god up.

So I have to make sure that gays have miserable lives, are afraid to hold hands or kiss in public, can't get married, can't get the jobs they want, can't live where they want, can't adopt kids and can't keep custody of them and can't visit each other in the hospital when they are sick or dying.

That's what I mean by "love the sinner"--here "love" means try to make their lives as hard as possible.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #192 on: February 12, 2012, 10:23:23 PM »
It also makes me sad and angry to see alleged Christians acting in that manner.

Empathy doesn't explain the sort of over-whelming reactions we experience at certain things.
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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #193 on: February 12, 2012, 11:17:45 PM »
I also love humanity - most of it. I don't view everyone as evil - that's what I tried to say in my last post to you. By that I mean, on a day to day basis I don't walk around thinking about all the evil people around me.

Those are 2 different things though.  Your first impression about everyone you meet may not be 'evil'; but if I were to follow you around pointing at people and asking you if that person over there, or this person over here was an evil person, then without exception you'd have to say yes, would you not? In that sense, you DO view everyone as evil.  Objectively evil, no less.. because it's God's opinion of them. 

I'm very glad none of it is true. 

I think about the nice people, the good people, the impatient people, the rude people..etc etc. But , I recognise that to God, even what we consider small mis-deeds are an abomination.

Like what?  Burping in public?  Pissing on a toilet seat?  Picking your nose?  Do you really think there is some sort of cosmic judge looking down at us frowning because we chew with our mouth open at the dinner table?  Are those all 'abominations' in God's eyes?  Those are pretty small mis-deeds, wouldn't you say? 

Do you realize that your God (if he exists as you say) is a tyrannical father figure who sets impossible goals with the foreknowledge that you are never going to meet them, and then considers you evil because you can't?  This is the God you've chosen to love and worship.  Why would you try to please him if he's set you up to fail from the start?  Because you think he loves you?  Maybe when you say that God loves us more than we can fully comprehend, it is to say that he doesn't really love you all that much at all. That would explain why he appears not to love us very much. Or maybe God's not real at all, and none of what you've said about him is true.  That works as well. 

I too, think about the people I surround myself with.  First and foremost that strikes me about most people is that they're human like me; so sometimes they do great things and sometimes they don't.  You don't need all that mumbo jumbo horseshit about how we don't understand God's perfection or his hatred for sin.  If you remove God from the equation, and you open your eyes to the real world around you, you still get a world of imperfect humans who sometimes do great things and sometimes don't. Adding God into that equation just creates more questions.   

Even then, the old saying needs to recognised: love the sinner, hate the sin. I do that to the best of my ability, and God does it much better.

What real world evidence do you have to support the notion that God loves the sinner but hates the sin?  Because if you don't have any, then all you're doing is spouting useless sayings that don't apply to reality at all. 

Just the sheer enormity of the outrage we feel at some things, certain injustices. I've never believed that social conditioning can properly explain that. If that was the case, wouldn't the outrage be less personally painful? When you hear of the child raped and tortured, do you think " That's terrible...that person has gone against a rule of society. Our society won't function properly if this is allowed to happen".

Are you an expert in the field of neurology?  Biology?  Psychology?  Evolutionary theory?  If not, then don't you think a dogged adherence to the stance... "I don't understand it, therefore God did it" is a bit... antiquated?  Your stance amounts to nothing more than that.  "I don't get it, so it must have been God."  They used to think that about lots of stuff.  We grew out of it though.  You should too. 

Anger is a continuum, and what we consider outrage would probably reside near the end of the "really angry" side.  Lots of things make us a little angry.  If you understand those little things could be explained naturally, then what makes you think the mechanism for outrage is unable to be explained naturally?   It's probably the same mechanism in the brain, it's just a more potent reaction. 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #194 on: February 12, 2012, 11:57:53 PM »
I mean sometimes I'm disbelief that we're here discussing some ancient tribal myth as if it has an effect on our lives.

God has a great[1] effect on our lives, despite not existing. His believers force their interpretations of his will on the rest of us every time they vote down gay-marriage laws, stem-cell research, abortion, etc. Not to mention that almost every war or act of terrorism is a result of religion. So yes, God does affect us, and we must continue to fight his influence over the weak-minded, for their sakes and our own. Do not forget that if they had their way, the vast majority of theists would have us killed.
 1. Meaning large and significant, not good.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 11:59:29 PM by joebbowers »
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #195 on: February 13, 2012, 12:13:07 AM »
I mean sometimes I'm disbelief that we're here discussing some ancient tribal myth as if it has an effect on our lives.

God has a great[1] effect on our lives, despite not existing. His believers force their interpretations of his will on the rest of us every time they vote down gay-marriage laws, stem-cell research, abortion, etc. Not to mention that almost every war or act of terrorism is a result of religion. So yes, God does affect us, and we must continue to fight his influence over the weak-minded, for their sakes and our own. Do not forget that if they had their way, the vast majority of theists would have us killed.
 1. Meaning large and significant, not good.

Not everyone who votes against those things are Christians. And you can't possibly back up anything else you post, it's just rather cynical opinion.
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #196 on: February 13, 2012, 12:34:50 AM »
I think the best we can hope to understand it is know that He is the perfect father who loves us more than we can fully comprehend, hates sin more than we can  fully compehend and demands justice in a way that we can't fully comprehend. We get a sense of it because we are made in His image, but the picture has become distorted.

I get so angry at Christians when they say that we cannot comprehend God. Have they never read the bible? The bible clearly defines God, his desires, and his rules. He wants almost everyone to suffer and die, then suffer some more. He is evil, violent, insane, jealous, and stupid. He is occasionally indifferent, but he is never good. If he existed, he would be the enemy of mankind, worthy of our disgust, not our worship.

Of course that doesn't agree with the loving sky-daddy you've created in your own mind, so you choose to throw out the bible that clearly tells you who God is, and pretend we just don't understand him.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #197 on: February 13, 2012, 12:38:41 AM »
I said fully comprehend.
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #198 on: February 13, 2012, 12:47:04 AM »
How "fully" depends on what is convenient at any given time, of course.  When critical or skeptical questions are being asked, we don't understand much at all.  But when it comes to acting on God's Holy Will, we understand plenty.

Kinda contrived, but useful.
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #199 on: February 13, 2012, 01:02:42 AM »

Which emotion do you feel could NOT POSSIBLY have developed naturally? 

Just the sheer enormity of the outrage we feel at some things, certain injustices. I've never believed that social conditioning can properly explain that.

Essentially what you're saying here is "I don't understand X, therefore God exists." How can you not see how stupid that argument is?

Christians (and all theists, for that matter) use ignorance to explain their beliefs. It would be funny, if it weren't so pathetic and harmful.

Are you a behavioral science major? Are you a biology professor? Have you studied evolution, sociology, history, genetics, psychology, and physiology? Don't you think it's possible that other people with more knowledge than you CAN explain the things you don't understand? Crack open any science journal and I'm sure you'll find articles about lots of stuff you don't understand, and if you scan ahead to the end of the article you may be suprised to find the answer is never God.

I know you won't change your mind. It's not your fault. Your brain is sick. The medicine is education but we can't force you to take it. My goal is not to cure you, but to innoculate the next generation, and defend myself when the infected try to spew their bile down my throat.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Online One Above All

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #200 on: February 13, 2012, 01:31:06 AM »
You claimed your idea of 'perfect' was infalible.

And it is. A perfect being by my definition would be infallible.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Theists, does YHWH do anything good in the Bible?
« Reply #201 on: February 13, 2012, 10:25:43 AM »
HoweverI think we are poor judges of what is truly evil, and we struggle to comprehend that any wrongdoing is considered evil by God. Again, the key is to get a sense of how holy God is. That is difficult even for Christians, so I understand why a non-Christian mocks the idea.
Earlier you called everyone evil.  and now you say that humans are “poor judges” of what is “truly evil”.   So, if you are a poor judge, how can you have any ability to call anyone evil and think you are correct?  You run to collection of ignorant books and declare that they somehow tell you what “evil” truly is, and of course ignore the parts that are inconvenient.    You also still keep spout about justice and of course have not explained on how yoru god can be just when your book claims that it damns people for things they have not done. 

Quote
I don't shy away from telling somebody that their actions are evil to God ( if the situation warrants...such as on an internet forum discussing God, or if I am discussing God with someone generally. I don't scream at people on street corners ). I also make sure I stress that God took care of the problem at the cross.
  I rewrite this as “I don’t shy away from telling somebody their action are evil as I want a god to consider them.”  MM, your interpretation is just one more that Christians make up, all certain that their god agrees with their personal hatreds and desires.  As usual, you have no more evidence that you are any more tight with this god than anyone else. 

ooh and "alleged Christians".  So, MM, let's see the evidence that you, and those who agree with you, are the only TrueChristians.  You think you are, since you think you can say other people are not. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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