Author Topic: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists  (Read 4085 times)

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Offline magicmiles

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #116 on: February 03, 2012, 12:30:17 AM »
time out!! I've posted myself into mental exhaustion...I think I've posted about 50 times today. It's my weekend in about 30 minutes...I'll be back online in a  few days.
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline JeffPT

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #117 on: February 03, 2012, 12:35:27 AM »
What God does see is scores of believers who have been convinced in spite of physical and historical evidence which is viwed with skepticism.

You could say that no matter what god you believe in.  Yours is no different.  Allah also sees scores of believers who have been convinced in spite of skeptically viewed evidence. 

I fail to see how this argument strengthens your case at all.  You're admitting there's no reason to believe in it, and it's almost as if you're standing on it as if it's virtuous to believe things for which we have no evidence.  It's as if you're proud of it.  Do you really think that?  Really? 

What it boils down to is this... either the most powerful being in the universe is sending you special telepathic messages to you that we can't see or detect, and contain only information you already know..., or you're simply wrong.  Now, if  a Muslim or a Hindu, or a Jainist said to you what you wrote here to us, what would you say to them?  Wouldn't you probably say they're just wrong? 

Sure they'd want evidence. I can only imagine the evidence Peter etc had was pretty convincing given the way the church took off. Especially when it was a very dangerous message to preach.

The church did no such thing.  It sputtered and struggled to begin, just like all religions do.  For a couple hundred years, it was a nothing religion.  You make it sound like Jesus happened and then wham, Christianity sprung up and spread like wildfire.  That's not what happened at all.  And besides, you don't need a lot of evidence when you are speaking your message to the poor and uneducated, and your message is that the poor and uneducated will have rewards in heaven...

Do you know why Jesus' enemies never wrote about him?  Because nobody cared!  He was not an important person in life and it wasn't until many years after he died (when people could make up whatever story they wanted to about him) that he was even on the map.

Did you ever ask yourself why it was a dangerous message to preach?  Why were the Christians hated?   

I agree that it's normally pretty easy to spot fiction. I consider myself especially good at spotting BS.

I can't agree with you here if you are saying the magic sky man gets past your BS detector. 

But when I read the bible...it just seems right. As it does for so many others. Mysterious indeed, but there you have it.

Yeah... now THAT'S a great way to determine truth right there.  "It just seems right when I read it". 

I hate to say this to you, but the stuff you say seems to be getting more and more ridiculous by the day. 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Online jynnan tonnix

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #118 on: February 03, 2012, 09:53:32 AM »
I agree that it's normally pretty easy to spot fiction. I consider myself especially good at spotting BS. But when I read the bible...it just seems right. As it does for so many others. Mysterious indeed, but there you have it.

But how much of that feeling can honestly be attributed to having grown up in a time and place where this particular story was accepted by the people you looked up to as a child?

If, hypothetically, you had never heard the stories in the Bible and, instead, had grown up where a different holy book was the norm, what are the chances that all of a sudden the particular stories of Jesus and Yahwe would resonate so strongly with you?

Sure, it could happen, but on the other hand people also convert to Islam, Buddhism, Wicca, etc after having been brought up Christian.

Point is, just because there is a tendency for people to look for supernatural answers to deal with things they fear or can't explain doesn't make any one of them more true than another. Or any reason for any one of them to be true to begin with.

Offline velkyn

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #119 on: February 03, 2012, 11:35:41 AM »
Funny, I don't recall posting those reasons for my faith. It's almost as if you have rudely created reasons for me.
MM, you can claim any reasons you want.  What I observe in your actions is what I’ve addressed. 
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Of course there is. You know there is. The fact that you don't consider Christian apologetics to have any validity does not automatically render it null and void. You also know, have been told many times I'm sure, that Christians experience and know the truth of God in ways that can't be demonstrated. This angers you. If you had never felt love, would you deny it exists in others?
Nope, I do not know anything of the sort.  There is no evidence that supports your myths. No archaeology, no geology, no contemporary references, etc.  If there is please do show it, MM.  Christian apologetics isn’t evidence at all.  It is desperate attempts to excuse the lack of actual evidence by cherry-picking, making baseless assumptions about your god, etc.     I’ve read enough of them to know them quite well.  Christian apologetics are no different from apologetics from any other religion.  I’m guessing that you don’t believe that Muslims have the only right answer and experience and know the “truth” of Allah. Do you? Each religion claims the same old tired things, that their god created the universe and you can see it by just looking around; that they feel their god; that their god does miracles; that it’s twue, it’s twue!  And you know what, they can’t prove an iota of it.  Their gods are just as imaginary as Zeus or Amon-Ra or Tezcatlipoca.

And the only thing that angers me is the harm that religion does and the lies that theists tell.  I was a Christian once upon a time, MM.  I was sure that Chrsitainity was the only religion that was true and that I felt the truth of god.  Found out that humans can delude themselves into believing anything and as above, nothing is special about Christianity.   
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I don't run away from hard questions. If I don't have an answer I say so. No-one has all the answers to everything. Do you?
Nope.  But I have more answers than you.  MM, I see you as just one more Christian who wants to claim that you know all sorts of magical secrets about the universe but when asked why your god is such an ass, you just throw up your hands and say “well, golly there must be a plan”.  You don’t even try to think, you just assume that your excuse will work.
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Oh, in an earlier post you dismissed me as a "liar". If a liar is someone who has told lies, does that not also make you a liar? I just don't think such childish name calling is helpful, especially when I had apologised for my poor behaviour.
  Do show where I’ve told a lie, MM.  Go ahead, I’m waiting.  I don’t forgive and forget easily and I sure don’t when the only thing that made you apologize is getting caught.


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You probably know the historical evidence for that better than me and choose to reject it.
there is none so there is nothing to reject.   All there is are forgeries, and much later references to Chrsitains, which would make any reference to any god's followers "evidence" that those gods exist too.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 11:38:34 AM by velkyn »
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #120 on: February 03, 2012, 12:08:01 PM »
I can only imagine the evidence Peter etc had was pretty convincing given the way the church took off. Especially when it was a very dangerous message to preach.

The establishment of the Church had more to do with rebelling against the current/dominant Orthodoxy at the time than it did with anything Jesus was claimed to have done. The teachings attributed to Jesus were a criticism towards the synagogues and their materialism. It is entirely possible that the character called Jesus was fabricated in an attempt to protect the identities of the real people behind the rebellion.

If you look at the new testament through my eyes you will see little more than propaganda for a political movement.

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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #121 on: February 03, 2012, 01:09:45 PM »
Sigh. How many people of renown who lived many years ago DO you believe existed, and on what basis? Is it wieight of numbers, amount of textual references?

If you care to name any people of renown, I'll tell you whether I believe they existed, and on what basis.  I can start you off with a few examples...

1)  Homer.  Probably did not exist, or if he did, was probably not the author of both of the works attributed to him.  The Odyssey and the Iliad are structurally too different, in my opinion, for them to have been written by the same man.  There are those who disagree, however, and as their argumentation is generally reasonable, I am not concerned to refute it.

2)  Alexander the Great.  (Someone threw this one at me once when I said that I didn't believe the gospels were historical because there are no contemporary reports; he told me that this was also true of AtG -- which, to be fair, is true.)  Definitely existed.  While it is true that there are no contemporary records, there are enough other records referencing earlier records in a consistent manner that there is little reason to doubt that he existed, especially inasmuch as we even have his date of birth and date of death down to within one day, each.  There's also the small matter of all the cities he founded and named after himself, a number of which still exist today.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #122 on: February 03, 2012, 01:23:44 PM »
Sigh. How many people of renown who lived many years ago DO you believe existed, and on what basis? Is it wieight of numbers, amount of textual references?

If you care to name any people of renown, I'll tell you whether I believe they existed, and on what basis.  I can start you off with a few examples...

1)  Homer.  Probably did not exist, or if he did, was probably not the author of both of the works attributed to him.  The Odyssey and the Iliad are structurally too different, in my opinion, for them to have been written by the same man.  There are those who disagree, however, and as their argumentation is generally reasonable, I am not concerned to refute it.

2)  Alexander the Great.  (Someone threw this one at me once when I said that I didn't believe the gospels were historical because there are no contemporary reports; he told me that this was also true of AtG -- which, to be fair, is true.)  Definitely existed.  While it is true that there are no contemporary records, there are enough other records referencing earlier records in a consistent manner that there is little reason to doubt that he existed, especially inasmuch as we even have his date of birth and date of death down to within one day, each.  There's also the small matter of all the cities he founded and named after himself, a number of which still exist today.

The truth value of historical personages is not binary, nor is it a simple question like theist try to portray it. There are one that we are more or less certain that they existed, but we are more or less certain that all the acts attributed to them didn't happen. George Washington and the cherry tree is mythology, even though we are well over 99% certain George Washington existed. any there's the opposite, we are quite certain that the city of Troy existed and fell, many of the players in the Illiad are very very likely fiction.
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Offline Frank

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #123 on: February 04, 2012, 10:06:12 PM »
I know I don't feel the slightest guilt or remorse if I squash an ant that is on my sandwhich, I doubt that you do either, and society certainly doesn't condemn the act. Thinks like ants, flies, cockroaches, mice , rats etc are killed in hordes. Whether we kill them for health reasons or merely because they're a pest, there is no problem with doing it because we have no trouble justifying it on the basis that WE are more important. So imagine if, compared to God, we are ants? I actually think the gulf is much, much larger.

Well if you were your god would you want a bunch of ants crawling around in your "heaven"?

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Offline Alzael

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #124 on: February 06, 2012, 05:41:38 PM »
Re/ Josephus' references added later - Widely accepted by who, and what evidence do they have?

Widely accepted by most non-apologists (including other Christian scholars).
For one thing, no other work of Josephus mentions Jesus at all. Also Origen and other early Christian writers claim that Josephus did not recognize Jesus as the messiah. Which contradicts what is written in the works that apologists try to quote. Also other Christian writers at the time fail to cite this passage in his works, making it likely that it was added much later.

Furthermore, the text is obviously pro-christian, which also contradicts his other writings, and presents an unlikely stance. Josephus was a Jewish apologist. It is highly unlikely that he was a fan of Jesus in anyway.

Also none of the passages we are talking about were suspiciously not noticed in Josephus' works until several hundred years later.


 You seem to have faith in evidence which disproves other evidence, but why is that evidence stronger than the evidence it apparently disproves?

Because the evidence it disapproves doesn't prove anything in the first place. Even if we accept that Josephus actually wrote that, it fails to prove anything since Josephus only wrote long after the fact.



By your reasoning you then have absolutely noth have can be answereding but faith to go on when you say there isn't a God, or an intelligent creator of the universe.

No. It does not require faith to reject a claim made without evidence. That is what an honest person does. I can say there is no god because those who claim his existence have not one shred of actual proof to support such an assertion. Also there exists no need for a god. Every question we have can be answered without one and it has no explanitory power.

It is up to the one who makes the positive claim to provide the evidence for what they claim. If they cannot do that, then the only logical option is to reject the claim.

Best I've heard is...we anticipate soon being able to explain how something came from nothing.

No one says that something came from nothing. Only very stupid Christians and other theists say that because they have no conception of what they are talking about. Theists are the ones who claim that something came from nothing. You claim that your god just happened to exist and then formed the universe from......what exactly?

Point is, no one claims that the universe came from nothingness.

On a side note, there's another flaw to this. What you say assumes that there even is such a thing as nothingness in the first place. Nothing is an abstract concept. As far as we know there is no place in the universe wherein nothing resides.

It is far more likely that there was always something, just constantly changing forms.


Indeed. You have a different faith than mine. I have faith that a designed world came from a designer. You have faith that random explosions created order, and that the origin of that first explosion will one day be explained, etc etc.

This is an outright lie. We do not have a different faith. This is because I have evidence for the things that I believe. I can actually justify my ideas. So no, I do not have faith. Faith is believing in spite of the evidence (or lack thereof). You are not only wrong to say otherwise, but it is inherently dishonest of you to say otherwise because you very well know better than that, or at least should by now.

This is as opposed to you, who not only has no evidence, but cannot even provide a means of distignguishing your beliefs from a made up fanatsy.


I'm not. I don't.

Your behaviour seems to indicate otherwise. See below.


I know you don't like non-atheists deciding what an atheist is, please allow Christians to say that a Christian is somebody who trusts in the deity, death and resurrection of Christ. If someone disputes any of those things, they are not a Christian however much they claim to be. There are different conclusions about Jesus, granted, but CHRISTIANS have come to the conclusions I noted.

This here is a dodge, and a strawman. Not to mention a lie.

I did not at any point try to define what a christian is. What I said was:

For that matter, what about the Christians who disagree with what your definition of a Christian is?

You said a Christian was one thing. I asked you what about the people who say they are christians but define it differently. Why is your definition right and theirs wrong?

This still comes down to the same point that you keep running away from. How do you know?

You have said that anyone that comes to a different conclusion of what christianity is, or believes different things is not a true Christian. How do you know this? By what measure do you use to separate the two? What about those who say they are Christians and disagree with you? Why are you the only one who can be right?
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #125 on: February 06, 2012, 06:41:25 PM »
I guess anyone can say anything, then. A person living in Australia all their life can claim to be Canadian, just because they like the idea of being Canadian. How do I claim they are wrong if that's what they claim? Who am I to demand that to call yourself Canadian you must have some sort of physical connection to the place?

Go on up you baldhead.

Offline One Above All

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #126 on: February 06, 2012, 06:45:19 PM »
I guess anyone can say anything, then. A person living in Australia all their life can claim to be Canadian, just because they like the idea of being Canadian. How do I claim they are wrong if that's what they claim? Who am I to demand that to call yourself Canadian you must have some sort of physical connection to the place?

False analogy. Whether one is Canadian or Australian depends on one actually living in Canada or Australia. There is no such method for theism, since all theism has the same evidence (none) and every denomination of every religion claims to have the "true" understanding of the religion. Try again.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 06:48:41 PM by Lucifer »
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #127 on: February 06, 2012, 06:50:12 PM »

 I was a Christian once upon a time, MM.  I was sure that Chrsitainity was the only religion that was true and that I felt the truth of god.  Found out that humans can delude themselves into believing anything and as above, nothing is special about Christianity.   
Quote

Presumably there was some basis upon which you were sure about Christianity? I'd be interested to know what that was if you care to share.


Do show where I’ve told a lie, MM.  Go ahead, I’m waiting.  I don’t forgive and forget easily and I sure don’t when the only thing that made you apologize is getting caught. 
Quote



If a liar is somebody who has told lies, then we are all liars. I'm sure you won't claim never to have told them. Point is, I'm sure you try not to. So do I. Why do you have trouble with forgiveness?

« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 06:52:16 PM by magicmiles »
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #128 on: February 06, 2012, 06:53:05 PM »
somehow just couldn't get that last post formatted properly. Sorry, hope it makes sense
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline hickdive

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #129 on: February 06, 2012, 06:55:03 PM »
I guess anyone can say anything, then. A person living in Australia all their life can claim to be Canadian, just because they like the idea of being Canadian. How do I claim they are wrong if that's what they claim? Who am I to demand that to call yourself Canadian you must have some sort of physical connection to the place?

Very simply; the person who claims to be Canadian must show evidence that they are indeed Canadian. If they cannot provide that evidence then they are wrong. It is not necessary for anyone to prove they are wrong. They have made a positive claim and therefore must provide positive evidence in support of their claim.

If I turned up at the Canadian border, claiming to be Canadian but having no Canadian passport, it would be unreasonable for me to demand entry on the basis that they couldn't prove I wasn't Canadian.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #130 on: February 06, 2012, 06:57:17 PM »
I guess anyone can say anything, then. A person living in Australia all their life can claim to be Canadian, just because they like the idea of being Canadian. How do I claim they are wrong if that's what they claim? Who am I to demand that to call yourself Canadian you must have some sort of physical connection to the place?

False analogy. Whether one is Canadian or Australian depends on one actually living in Canada or Australia. There is no such method for theism, since all theism has the same evidence (none) and every denomination of every religion claims to have the "true" understanding of the religion. Try again.

I'm happy with the analogy, thanks Lucifer. You can claim to be anything you want. Those who really are the thing you claim to be know when you are not, and "proving' it becomes rather silly and pointless. Live in Australia and claim to be Canadian? Yeah, whatever mate.

Claim to be Christian and deny that Jesus Christ was God and died for our sins? Yeah, whatever mate.
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline One Above All

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #131 on: February 06, 2012, 07:01:08 PM »
I'm happy with the analogy, thanks Lucifer. You can claim to be anything you want. Those who really are the thing you claim to be know when you are not, and "proving' it becomes rather silly and pointless. Live in Australia and claim to be Canadian? Yeah, whatever mate.

*Sigh* Why do idiots make me repeat myself?

False analogy. Whether one is Canadian or Australian depends on one actually living in Canada or Australia. There is no such method for theism, since all theism has the same evidence (none) and every denomination of every religion claims to have the "true" understanding of the religion. Try again.

I suggest you brush up on your reading skills.

Claim to be Christian and deny that Jesus Christ was God and died for our sins? Yeah, whatever mate.

That's because you're arrogantly assuming that your specific denomination is true, rather than even consider the fact that you might be wrong. But this comes as no surprise. Theists are generally arrogant illiterate dicks.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #132 on: February 06, 2012, 07:17:28 PM »
As I said, I'm happy with my analogy. I've made my point. I haven't convinced you..mercy me.
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Offline Alzael

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #133 on: February 06, 2012, 07:37:12 PM »
How do I claim they are wrong if that's what they claim?

Evidence.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

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Offline albeto

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #134 on: February 06, 2012, 09:01:42 PM »
I guess anyone can say anything, then. A person living in Australia all their life can claim to be Canadian, just because they like the idea of being Canadian. How do I claim they are wrong if that's what they claim? Who am I to demand that to call yourself Canadian you must have some sort of physical connection to the place?

Yep.  This is true.  And it happens all the time.  People do make claims that are not checked out by anyone else.  Usually it's no big deal.  But if your Australian claims to be the Prime Minister of Canada and furthermore offers amnesty for all Canadian criminals in Australia, s/he must provide credible evidence for this claim to be accepted.  Your Jesus character could have lived or not lived, could have believed he was god or just a really nice guy, but as soon as your church claims he can offer immortality and amnesty for the nasty-ass shit that people do to themselves and others in the name of your god, well hot damn, that church had better have a more credible piece of evidence than  feeling warm and fuzzy inside after reading a story about Jesus. 

Offline magicmiles

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #135 on: February 06, 2012, 09:04:55 PM »
Evidence is only relevant for belief...it doesn't alter the truth of a matter.
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Offline albeto

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #136 on: February 06, 2012, 09:11:14 PM »
Evidence is only relevant for belief...it doesn't alter the truth of a matter.

 As soon as the belief encourages and excuses certain personal behaviors and legitimizes public policy, evidence is relevant not only for the believer but for those affected by believers (all of us).  Increasingly, it's being demanded, and it's high time, imo. 

Offline Alzael

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #137 on: February 06, 2012, 09:12:15 PM »

Claim to be Christian and deny that Jesus Christ was God and died for our sins? Yeah, whatever mate.

Christians do exactly that. As I said, there are many people who identify themselves as Christians and don't think that Jesus was a god. You have simply declared that only Christians that do are real Christians. How do you make this claim honestly? They would say the same about you?

Evidence is only relevant for belief...it doesn't alter the truth of a matter.

No, it doesn't. It does however let us recognize the truth. Which is why you continually fail. Doing it your way, that is with nothing but faith, you have yet to show any actual way that someone can recognize your beliefs as being more true than the beliefs of someone who thinks smeering butter on his crotch will yield super powers.

With my beliefs, I can separate them from fantasy, because I can point to objective evidence that shows they are real and make logical arguments for them.

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Offline magicmiles

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #138 on: February 06, 2012, 09:17:26 PM »

well hot damn, that church had better have a more credible piece of evidence than  feeling warm and fuzzy inside after reading a story about Jesus.

It better? Or what? I'm not trying to be snide albeto, but thats a curious thing to say. Do you just mean in the sense that people won't believe it?
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Offline Alzael

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #139 on: February 06, 2012, 09:19:34 PM »
As I said, I'm happy with my analogy. I've made my point. I haven't convinced you..mercy me.

Yes, you have made your point quite clear.

Your point is that you believe that you are unquestionably right and above the need for evidence, and that anyone who disagrees with your opinion of reality is automatically wrong, despite any proof they might have to the contrary.

I can't imagine why that wasn't convincing.

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Offline magicmiles

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #140 on: February 06, 2012, 09:29:21 PM »

With my beliefs, I can separate them from fantasy, because I can point to objective evidence that shows they are real and make logical arguments for them.

As can Christian apologists. They can point to it, and it is scorned - I know this. But its wrong to say there is no evidence for the Christian God, the best you can say is that you flat out reject the evidence.

I don't want to link in apologist websites here - it's not what I'm about. Besides you know the points they make. 
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #141 on: February 06, 2012, 09:36:20 PM »
As I said, I'm happy with my analogy. I've made my point. I haven't convinced you..mercy me.

Yes, you have made your point quite clear.

Your point is that you believe that you are unquestionably right and above the need for evidence, and that anyone who disagrees with your opinion of reality is automatically wrong, despite any proof they might have to the contrary.

I can't imagine why that wasn't convincing.

What I have said is that, beyond the  apologist-style argument and evidence which DOES exist, I have an unassailable assurance in what I believe which could only be a gift of God.

Let me be clear that I don't think any atheist is wrong for questioning and not believing something which doesn't add up to them. That's only natural.
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline Death over Life

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #142 on: February 06, 2012, 09:52:29 PM »
Claim to be Christian and deny that Jesus Christ was God and died for our sins? Yeah, whatever mate.

Why not? According to the Bible, every Christian denies Christ. That is the very basis of Christianity. Whether Christ actually existed or not is another story.


With my beliefs, I can separate them from fantasy, because I can point to objective evidence that shows they are real and make logical arguments for them.

As can Christian apologists. They can point to it, and it is scorned - I know this. But its wrong to say there is no evidence for the Christian God, the best you can say is that you flat out reject the evidence.

I don't want to link in apologist websites here - it's not what I'm about. Besides you know the points they make.

As I said, I'm happy with my analogy. I've made my point. I haven't convinced you..mercy me.

Yes, you have made your point quite clear.

Your point is that you believe that you are unquestionably right and above the need for evidence, and that anyone who disagrees with your opinion of reality is automatically wrong, despite any proof they might have to the contrary.

I can't imagine why that wasn't convincing.

What I have said is that, beyond the  apologist-style argument and evidence which DOES exist, I have an unassailable assurance in what I believe which could only be a gift of God.

Let me be clear that I don't think any atheist is wrong for questioning and not believing something which doesn't add up to them. That's only natural.

You have 2 posts that say you have evidence. Since you obviously are enlightened and are trying to “inform” us, please post us this evidence you claim to have. Failure to do so, could actually get you banned if you keep insisting you have evidence without showing it.

You are making the claim, and I’m demanding you show it before you make another post anywhere else.

Offline Alzael

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #143 on: February 06, 2012, 09:56:27 PM »
I guess anyone can say anything, then. A person living in Australia all their life can claim to be Canadian, just because they like the idea of being Canadian. How do I claim they are wrong if that's what they claim? Who am I to demand that to call yourself Canadian you must have some sort of physical connection to the place?

What you also neglect to note is that the term "Canadian" has an accepted and agreed upon definition that we can use to determine if one is such a thing.

The accepted definition of "Christian" is simply "one who adheres to Christianity". You are trying to claim that someone must also model their beliefs exactly after yours to be considered a "Christian". I am simply asking how you justify this rationally?


As can Christian apologists. They can point to it, and it is scorned - I know this. But its wrong to say there is no evidence for the Christian God, the best you can say is that you flat out reject the evidence.

No, they can't. None of their arguments have had any proof or been remotely rational as of yet. The reason the evidence is rejected is because apologists do not understand what evidence entails. Their claims are based on logical fallacies.

That's why they are scorned. If they had real evidence it would be taken seriously. Science has come up with far weirder ideas than god that were eventually accepted because they could be proven.

What I have said is that, beyond the  apologist-style argument and evidence which DOES exist, I have an unassailable assurance in what I believe which could only be a gift of God.

That's what I said.

Your point is that you believe that you are unquestionably right and above the need for evidence, and that anyone who disagrees with your opinion of reality is automatically wrong, despite any proof they might have to the contrary.

Your assurance is unassailable because you ignore any evidence that contradicts it out of hand. That's why you can't provide any sort of reasonable argument to justify yourself.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: LOL the guide on how to convert atheists
« Reply #144 on: February 06, 2012, 10:14:25 PM »
the how to manuel was funny. Had to be written by an atheist trolling christians.