Poll

Do you favor homeschooling?

Yes, I was homeschooled.
0 (0%)
Yes, I was not homeschooled.
3 (9.1%)
No, I was homeschooled.
1 (3%)
No, I was not homeschooled.
26 (78.8%)
It makes no difference (explain)
3 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 33

Author Topic: Homeschooling  (Read 1280 times)

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Offline Tero

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2012, 07:35:37 AM »
Homeschooler craft time
http://digitprop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/jesus_and_raptor.pdf

Jesus rides dinosaur. From Ratz discussion.

Offline jsmacks

Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2012, 10:37:39 PM »
I voted it makes no difference but only because I think the choices are too Black and White.

No I was not homeschooled.

I think it depends on the education of the parents.  I think for homeschooling to work, the parent needs to be educated as well and also trained to deal with children (not parenting children but how to teach a child).

It also depends on the quality of the school in the families district (which can vary greatly in the United States).


Probably the best (but not practical solution), would be a professionally trained individual teacher for the child but that would be very expensive.

I'd say homeschooling would have drawbacks as well. 

IMO, homeschooling seems too much of a "controlled environment" for a kid (or could potentially be depending on the parenting type).

One actually good thing about public (or private) schools  vs. homeschooling is that the student will be interacting with a wide variety of students/teachers with different personalities, teaching styles, behaviors etc, which IMO more simulates the work environment or even college.  Sure there will be some brutish kids, and a few bad teachers but that is life.

If all a kid gets to interact with are their parents, then IMO this is not a good preparation for what real life will be like.  Real life will be dealing with all those crazy people you had to deal with from the public school system.  Sure many parents say that they also home school kids in groups, but I think still the parents are cherry picking the group of kids/adults they want their kids to be around which is being overprotective.

I'd say all in all though the failure of the U.S. education system is not most teachers fault but many parents themselves.

I do think though that if a parent cares enough to homeschool their kid, there kid will probably end up pretty educated anyways, but I still think a kid in the public school system can be educated to be just as smart or maybe even smarter, if the kid has supportive parents.

supportive/educated parents who care enough to make the kids study, I think that makes the biggest impact home schooled or not.

A kid with uneducated/uncaring parents will have the cards stacked against him.



Also as far as teachers are concerned, during my 12 year public school period I probably could only think of two teachers who probably weren't that great (reading, history).  Overall, I think most of my teachers did a good job and after graduating I feel I can read better than a lot of people and have a generally decent knowledge of U.S. history.

But even in college I had a couple of bad professors, but overall just like public school most college professors do a good job.

I think the parents/students are the biggest blame and I also think our culture tends to overvalue pop culture/entertainment more than education which can distract children especially with unmotivated parents.


Also I find that many people aren't really dumb, they just spent their time learning different things (granted probably not important things).  I had a friend who could hardly read, but he could tell you every type of car ever made with the engine type and everything.  And everybody has a friend who probably isn't that smart bookwise but can recite to you the whole roster of the Miami Heat's bench and the best players stats and what not.  Or the kids who don't know poetry or Shakespeare but can recite Lady Gaga's whole CD or know whole movies line from line.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 10:51:13 PM by jsmacks »

Offline jsmacks

Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2012, 10:58:07 PM »
Secular Home-schooing Parent Here!  And I know I have shared my details before.

Homeschooling has an unfortunate stereotype, sort of like atheist.  It is exactly not what the stereotype depicts, I can assure you.  And we are not an exception.  The exception is people who use homeschooling as a way to keep their children from being taught that the world is real, and God is imaginary.  Those are the homeschooling nut jobs that make it sometimes awkward to admit that we homeschool.

Now, because we have home schooled our 10 year old from day one so far, we are comfortable with the idea that he is not in public school, and we always have the choice to let him attend.  We may still do that, if the situation warrants it.  I am the sole bread winner, and my wife, with two degrees and a minor in math, left the working world to do the homeschooling about eight years ago.  I am still working on my degree, but it is more of a formality, as I have been in the business professional world for so long now, that getting a degree is not going to push me into a new level of success (although, it is possible).

My wife has worked very hard to keep a good curriculum, keep our son moving along the grades, and keep him involved with plenty of outside the home activities with other groups.  He is very busy, and has lots of interaction including sports, drama, music, and science.  He gets most of the basics, reading, writing, math, and grammar at home. And you would not believe the possibilities of teaching your child when it is in your hands!  Our son's grammar is off the charts, because we took the time to ground him in the origin of the english language, and the roots of words, for example.

He hates math, but has no problem doing it.  He can't stand writing, but he gets it done.  Sound familiar?  He absolutely loves science and history!  Who doesn't want their kid to love those things?  He is especially intrigued by the history of battles around the world.

Friends of this forum, I am here to tell you that homeschooling has a bad name and stigma for one reason - the religious parents who insist on indoctrinating their children at home with Bibles, instead of real text books.  Now, that does not mean that all religious homeschoolers do this, I know for a fact hat they don't.  Some are doing an excellent job of teaching their children.  But ultimately, it is that extreme group that makes it all look bad.

Also, it's not all wonderful.  Here's a real brain twister.  The state of Texas knows we have a 10 year old.  And there are obviously compulsory school requirements.  But they have never once checked in on us.  Ever.  That's just weird, and possibly a major failure of the state board of education (yes, I realize the TSBOE is a national joke.)  But come on?  Apparently you must enroll your child in public school in order for it to actually be compulsory!  There may be laws, but there is no enforcement, or even checking in!  If you're going to homeschool, Texas might just be the perfect state!

Anyway - I could go on and on...and I should add that my wife sometimes gets exhausted, and would love to go back to an adult world at times.  But I cannot thank her enough for the work and effort she puts in for this.  When the rubber hits the road, it is who she is.  I love her.

Edit:  Fixed some grammar!

You and your wife sound like educated, caring and hard working parents.  I think that makes the biggest difference in a child's life home schooled or not.

Offline jetson

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2012, 11:33:54 PM »

You and your wife sound like educated, caring and hard working parents.  I think that makes the biggest difference in a child's life home schooled or not.

Thank you.  And I read your earlier post and don't disagree with your thoughts.  I will add that both my wife and I have considered the negative effects of a single teacher, and not being exposed to a variety of personalities within the education system.  And we have concerns - like, what if we mess this up?

But here's a thought.  Someone decided we need to educate our children long ago.  And societies figured out that education leads to better societies!  And then came the schools, and then came the compulsory rules.  And then came the tests, and the no tolerance policies, and the political, social, and income divides that most western societies are now dealing with.  Why do we think any of it is the best we can do?

Maybe we should eliminate compulsory education laws?  Why don't we drop mandatory testing, and just teach stuff?  Privatize education, maybe?  What if kids learn to recognize that their peers are leaving them behind, and we weed them out by peer pressure?  Has anyone here ever read up on the concept of "un-schooling"? (very interesting, IMO)

All of these ideas are fraught with issues, pros and cons, etc., but I see no reason to think that what we have been doing for so long, is truly better.

Hell, for that matter, why can't someone walk into a University, pay a reasonable fee, take an exam, and walk out with a degree?  Why does everyone have to spend four years and a fortune in fees to be considered worthy of a degree?  Is the degree really just an indication of enduring all of that effort, over that long period, and ultimately passing enough credits to get the designation?  Or is it truly about making sure the person knows what he is talking about on the subjects related to and necessary for that degree?  I'm working on my degree, and because I waited so long, my experience is making me wonder what all of the fuss is about? 

Anyway - enough rambling...


Offline Bad Pear

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2012, 11:41:13 AM »
Hell, for that matter, why can't someone walk into a University, pay a reasonable fee, take an exam, and walk out with a degree?  Why does everyone have to spend four years and a fortune in fees to be considered worthy of a degree?  Is the degree really just an indication of enduring all of that effort, over that long period, and ultimately passing enough credits to get the designation?  Or is it truly about making sure the person knows what he is talking about on the subjects related to and necessary for that degree?  I'm working on my degree, and because I waited so long, my experience is making me wonder what all of the fuss is about? 

^-This. A thousand times this. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I can run intellectual laps around my step-sister. She 'earned' a masters on daddy's dime while I had to go to work straight out of high school. To add insult to injury her degree can get her into positions that are in no way related while I have to work ten times harder to get my foot in the door because I lack a fucking piece of paper.

Knowledge is what matters. Education is what's important. Time/money sinks and pieces of paper are far too overvalued in our culture.
Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions implode, atheism is what is left behind

Offline velkyn

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2012, 01:48:30 PM »
my husband and I just got one of the courses from The Great Courses.  This one: http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=2368 

I'm impressed on how good it is, and how fun it is to watch this.  Do any of our homeschoolers use these?
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline jetson

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2012, 08:13:29 PM »

^-This. A thousand times this. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I can run intellectual laps around my step-sister. She 'earned' a masters on daddy's dime while I had to go to work straight out of high school. To add insult to injury her degree can get her into positions that are in no way related while I have to work ten times harder to get my foot in the door because I lack a fucking piece of paper.

Knowledge is what matters. Education is what's important. Time/money sinks and pieces of paper are far too overvalued in our culture.

Yeah, I go around and around on this one.  I really think that getting a degree is a good thing for society.  I think that colleges are a good thing for people to do when they leave high school.  It gives them something to strive for, and starts making them think about their future.  And I do applaud those who graduate and leave with new knowledge.

But there should be a way to skip the whole mess if you're either really smart, or you don't want to start right out of high school.  Why can't five years of work in a field, at a certain level, equal a degree?  Or, what is so wrong about letting someone teach themselves, and then just let them pass a test, and get a degree?  If two people walk into a room, and take an exam, and one of them outperforms the other, what is it about their time spent learning in a college, versus not in a college, that makes the degree more or less worthy?

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2012, 11:41:06 PM »
It depends.

I went to pretty bad inner-city public schools, dropped out of High School twice and hated almost every minute of my primary and secondary years. I was bullied for being precociously smart, bored to tears (I read at a college level in sixth grade, so most of school was a waste of time) and practiced a weird fundy religion. No holidays, strange clothes. School was a seriously miserable experience.

However, it would have been much worse if I had been home schooled, considering the abusive and dysfunctional JW family I grew up in. I would be in an institution now if I had been homeschooled.

If the family is good, I don't think it really matters what kind of schooling the kids have. The parents are looking out for their kids' welfare and education. They will stay on top of things and make sure the kids are learning, like Jetson is doing. We have spent money for private school for our daughter and have made sure she was supported in the public schools she has attended. We would homeschool if we thought that was best for her.

If the family is bad, all bets are off. A good school won't fix a bad family situation. A bad school makes everything worse.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline plethora

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2012, 06:04:28 AM »
Yeah, I go around and around on this one.  I really think that getting a degree is a good thing for society.  I think that colleges are a good thing for people to do when they leave high school.  It gives them something to strive for, and starts making them think about their future.  And I do applaud those who graduate and leave with new knowledge.

But there should be a way to skip the whole mess if you're either really smart, or you don't want to start right out of high school.  Why can't five years of work in a field, at a certain level, equal a degree?  Or, what is so wrong about letting someone teach themselves, and then just let them pass a test, and get a degree?  If two people walk into a room, and take an exam, and one of them outperforms the other, what is it about their time spent learning in a college, versus not in a college, that makes the degree more or less worthy?

I have to agree with this.

For beginners, I hate that people have to pay thousands for higher education. It's my opinion that all universities should be free and fully funded by the government.
Also the "Fraternity" culture in the US sucks. Enough of these fucking elitist divisions.

Secondly, I do think that work experience combined with passing some standard tests should be enough to give you a qualification by means other than spending years in academia.

Here in the UK a lot of jobs will take you based on experience and results in knowledge testing during interview even if you lack a degree. In computing for example... but I don't think that flies in the US.
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Offline jetson

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2012, 07:54:46 AM »

Here in the UK a lot of jobs will take you based on experience and results in knowledge testing during interview even if you lack a degree. In computing for example... but I don't think that flies in the US.

This is precisely why I had to get started.  It is difficult to find employers who welcome "equivalent job experience" as much as  degree.  It's a shame, really.  I have a specialized skill that I have earned over my career that many companies need.  But I cannot surface in their process because I am still unable to say that I have a college degree.

Offline albeto

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2012, 01:21:34 PM »
my husband and I just got one of the courses from The Great Courses.  This one: http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=2368 

I'm impressed on how good it is, and how fun it is to watch this.  Do any of our homeschoolers use these?

We love 'em!

Offline albeto

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2012, 01:32:33 PM »
Knowledge is what matters. Education is what's important. Time/money sinks and pieces of paper are far too overvalued in our culture.

So I just came across an article [here] that really illustrates my goals for the education of my kids.  Committing factual information to memory (cramming for tests and compiling notes for papers) is no longer advantageous.  It's a waste of time, in my opinion.  Knowing information (and information is better retained when learned through interest, or for kids, "play") and knowing how to critically analyze and apply that information is the kind of skills I want my kids to have when I unleash them upon the world.  My kids have various executive functioning skills and to be able to focus on those parts that they are naturally less capable with is possible when I don't have a limited time in the day, after homework, sports, etc.  Allowing them the time to excel at the things they naturally excel at gives them the opportunity to learn more than their conventionally schooled peers.  I also notice that as they get older and mature (I have two teens now), they recognize that in order to reach a significant goal, they need to put in significant effort.  In other words, they get it about cause and effect, working hard to get what you want, and sometimes that work isn't "fun."  But when it's their choice and they are motivated to do it, dang if they can't be stopped.  I guess what I'm saying is, there's more than one way to skin a cat. 

Offline Jason

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2012, 09:54:35 PM »
Hah!  I am the only one to that I was homeschooled and am against it.   :P

I was homeschooled from the 5th grade on.  I was raised in a very religious household.  Because of this homeschooling was greatly influenced by religion. 

At first it wasn't too bad.  The first couple of years my brother and I didn't hang out with too many other kids our age.  That didn't matter because not having to go to school had a kind of novelty to it.  We moved to another town not too long after and became involved in a church that was largely of the homeschooling variety.  At this point we were able to socialize with more people our age and did it 2 or more times a week.

When I was 14 my parents started having children again.  From that point on they didn't get to that church near as much so we didn't really hang out with anybody.  During the school year all friends we had on our street were busy with school activities and homework.  A couple of years after that my parents had twins.  This really limited our social life because she needed constant help with them and the other child when they were awake.  Just to add to the frustration of this story I remember her getting downright abusive once or twice when the other child did stuff while we were watching her, while we were doing our regular school work. 

I'm going to fast forward about 10 years now.  I have a total of four "newer" siblings.  A 12 year old sister, 9 year old twins brother/sister and a 7 year old sister.  They have all been homeschooled the whole time and have never been exposed to any other kind of educational environment.  As far as I can tell they are behind on a lot of their coursework, though I have been told they are catching up.  It is also very light on math and science.  They are using some crap christian curriculum that espouses a god did it philosophy to science. 

I thought it was bad that my brother (who would be 25 right now if he were still alive) and I did not have great social experiences when we were homeschooled.  What is happening to my siblings is 100X worse.  They rarely see or associate with anyone their own age.   Even when they are at church my mom is telling them that some of the kids there are bad influences on them.  Back to my brother…I was talking to one of my close friends who was his roommate.  He said that it took Jeremy a while to come out of his shell socially after moving out.   

These kids are being raised as 7th day adventists and are only being exposed to junk science and whatever crap their churches are spewing out. 

My mom’s reason for doing all this was to keep us from the bad influences.  Nice job.  It worked great, didn’t it?

In short, I think homeschooling is bullshit (no offence jetson, cuz I know you’re doing it right).  I think it is child abuse the way my parents are doing it.  Their needs to be mandatory testing for homeschooled kids every year to make sure they are where they should be academically.

Anyway, thanks for reading my rant here.  I know it is a little unorganized but I needed to get it out. After reading some of the other posts here I have decided that this could be done right.  I just don't like the bullshit going on with my siblings.  They are deliberatly being kept away from anything that might contradict my parent's faith.  That is so, so wrong.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 10:13:04 PM by Jason »

Offline jetson

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2012, 10:26:06 PM »
Jason,

Thanks for sharing your experience.  I really wish homeschooling did not have that reputation, but sadly, it is what it is.  And after reading your story, I felt sad that families go through that kind of lifestyle.  We are friends with another 7th Day family that home schools, and I feel very sad for the children sometimes.  They are great kids, and seem happy right now, but they are still young.  They are not allowed out after dark, and they are literally locked down on Saturdays from all activities that are not Church based.

They are not allowed to read anything or watch any movies that are deemed "wrong" by their parents, and that rules out almost every popular book and movie that modern kids are enjoying - mostly fiction, sadly.

I know I like to defined our choice, but again, we do wonder at times if we are doing the right thing.

Offline Jason

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2012, 10:40:52 PM »
Jason,

They are not allowed to read anything or watch any movies that are deemed "wrong" by their parents, and that rules out almost every popular book and movie that modern kids are enjoying - mostly fiction, sadly.

I know I like to defined our choice, but again, we do wonder at times if we are doing the right thing.

This is exactly what life is like for them.  They see anything not based on a biblical point of view as evil.  I is very, very sad.  I just know that I will be there to help them through their adjustment to the real world.

I really, really admire you and your wife for doing the homeschooling in the right way.  I am just too jaded against the idea to like it very much.  Perhaps that will change with time.  I can't really do it for my daughter in a feasible way since her mother and I are not together.

Offline shnozzola

Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2012, 09:01:13 AM »
If the family is good, I don't think it really matters what kind of schooling the kids have. ......................If the family is bad, all bets are off. A good school won't fix a bad family situation. A bad school makes everything worse.

I believe Nogods words here are the best in the thread
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2012, 01:43:59 PM »
If the family is good, I don't think it really matters what kind of schooling the kids have. ......................If the family is bad, all bets are off. A good school won't fix a bad family situation. A bad school makes everything worse.

I believe Nogods words here are the best in the thread

As per usual, she said modestly..... ;)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.