Poll

Do you favor homeschooling?

Yes, I was homeschooled.
0 (0%)
Yes, I was not homeschooled.
3 (9.1%)
No, I was homeschooled.
1 (3%)
No, I was not homeschooled.
26 (78.8%)
It makes no difference (explain)
3 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 33

Author Topic: Homeschooling  (Read 1181 times)

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Offline shnozzola

Homeschooling
« on: January 28, 2012, 03:29:49 PM »
To start off with, I found an 2010 homeschool debate:
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,16897.0.html

And some pro/con links:

http://www.secular-homeschooling.com/007/pros_and_cons.html

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_pros_and_cons_of_homeschooling

I find the internet search skewed in favor of home schooling because most sites are for homeschoolers.  Like some of what was said in the original WWGHA thread, the necessary research would be difficult to set up to find out once and for all how adult society can be effected pro and con.


I have a friend that I grew up with attending public school.  His wife has insisted their children be homeschooled, because she doesn't like the local public school.  I realized I do not agree with homeschooling.  I think the loss of socializing with the wealthier, poorer, smarter, less smart, and all the types of baggage that school kids carry and show or conceal from each other in public school, is just as important as the curriculum.   I remember myself at middle school with 4 grades of 400 kids each - take a middle school speech class, or the annual play, or band, or the county wide science competition, although homeschooled kids can participate, they usually do not, and I think they are missing out on something important.  As much as I can understand parents wanting the control......I don't know.   I liken homeschooling to keeping the races divided in the south.  IMO, it's important for kids to get exposed to as many wild ideas as possible, to encourage us as adults to think for ourselves and keep open minds.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 03:32:40 PM by shnozzola »
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Offline Nick

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2012, 04:04:13 PM »
How can anyone have the time or knowledge to home school children in todays world. Also, kids need the social aspect of a school system to grow.  Some home scholed kids do really well but their social skills seem to be lacking.  I would never do that to my kids.
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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2012, 04:37:27 PM »
I had always been against homeschooling until I met two particular women who did a remarkable job with it.

I thought homeschoolers were always conservative christians teaching a skewed view of science, and agreed with the OP about socialization issues. Turns out, many homeschoolers are secular, doing an excellent job of teaching, and they include tons of field trips for socialization and learning. In fact, they're able to go on some school activities with the local schools, as I understand it.

I have several complaints about public school. Bullying. Class sizes that are too large for individual attention. Teaching to the lowest common denominator, leaving smart kids bored. Ditto on the other end, with struggling kids not able to catch up.

Now, that said, I think it would be exceedingly rare to find a family that had the luxury of time, money and ability to do a good job at homeschooling.

I don't have an answer, but I'm not longer flat-out against homeschooling. I think when its well done it does a MUCH better job than public school. When its done badly you end up with kids who know little about the real world.
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Offline Historicity

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2012, 06:34:18 PM »
I work with an organization that has a scholarship.  Students apply thru a high school.

Homeschoolers can apply.

How?

Well, there is a home school organization in the county.  The home schoolers also have sports teams.  They meet periodically for sports like softball.

I really haven't met any of them but they don't seem to be the sullen loners where papa gets his gun before he answers the door bell.


Offline jetson

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2012, 08:12:19 PM »
Secular Home-schooing Parent Here!  And I know I have shared my details before.

Homeschooling has an unfortunate stereotype, sort of like atheist.  It is exactly not what the stereotype depicts, I can assure you.  And we are not an exception.  The exception is people who use homeschooling as a way to keep their children from being taught that the world is real, and God is imaginary.  Those are the homeschooling nut jobs that make it sometimes awkward to admit that we homeschool.

Now, because we have home schooled our 10 year old from day one so far, we are comfortable with the idea that he is not in public school, and we always have the choice to let him attend.  We may still do that, if the situation warrants it.  I am the sole bread winner, and my wife, with two degrees and a minor in math, left the working world to do the homeschooling about eight years ago.  I am still working on my degree, but it is more of a formality, as I have been in the business professional world for so long now, that getting a degree is not going to push me into a new level of success (although, it is possible).

My wife has worked very hard to keep a good curriculum, keep our son moving along the grades, and keep him involved with plenty of outside the home activities with other groups.  He is very busy, and has lots of interaction including sports, drama, music, and science.  He gets most of the basics, reading, writing, math, and grammar at home. And you would not believe the possibilities of teaching your child when it is in your hands!  Our son's grammar is off the charts, because we took the time to ground him in the origin of the english language, and the roots of words, for example.

He hates math, but has no problem doing it.  He can't stand writing, but he gets it done.  Sound familiar?  He absolutely loves science and history!  Who doesn't want their kid to love those things?  He is especially intrigued by the history of battles around the world.

Friends of this forum, I am here to tell you that homeschooling has a bad name and stigma for one reason - the religious parents who insist on indoctrinating their children at home with Bibles, instead of real text books.  Now, that does not mean that all religious homeschoolers do this, I know for a fact hat they don't.  Some are doing an excellent job of teaching their children.  But ultimately, it is that extreme group that makes it all look bad.

Also, it's not all wonderful.  Here's a real brain twister.  The state of Texas knows we have a 10 year old.  And there are obviously compulsory school requirements.  But they have never once checked in on us.  Ever.  That's just weird, and possibly a major failure of the state board of education (yes, I realize the TSBOE is a national joke.)  But come on?  Apparently you must enroll your child in public school in order for it to actually be compulsory!  There may be laws, but there is no enforcement, or even checking in!  If you're going to homeschool, Texas might just be the perfect state!

Anyway - I could go on and on...and I should add that my wife sometimes gets exhausted, and would love to go back to an adult world at times.  But I cannot thank her enough for the work and effort she puts in for this.  When the rubber hits the road, it is who she is.  I love her.

Edit:  Fixed some grammar!
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 08:57:49 PM by jetson »

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2012, 08:36:04 PM »
I think like everything else homeschooling can be done right and it can be done wrong. It can be done for the right reasons, and it can be done for the wrong ones. I know several home schooled kids, sadly for religious reasons, but all of them are sociable, active, pleasant and good kids. One wanted some real science classes and he went to the local community college when he was sixteen to see what was available. They gave me an entrance test and told him he could start right away in any of their classes, so obviously he was pretty well prepared. I don't think his parents pushed the saddles on dinosaurs stuff to hard. And his little brother is an excellent and prolific writer who wants to be an author, and not of religious stuff. So I think those two have done pretty well. The two girls I know who were home schooled did start public school this year, and though it was rough on the younger one (9) at first, both have adjusted. Both are getting straight A's. Again, I don't know how fundy their science education was, but they seem to be doing just fine in public school.

Obviously there are horror stories and stories of ignorance being taught (something one would think impossible), so I think one needs to look at each case individually. As for me, I guess I would generally be down on home schooling unless I knew the parents were taking enough time and putting in enough effort (and obviously not teaching crap science).

And public schools have a lot of improving to do before I ge excited about them. I know recent high school graduates who can't count change when they give it to me at McDonald's and whose knowledge of history is pathetic. So there is nothing automatic about the quality of public schools either. Parental involvement is a requirement in either case, and the parents have to be smart enough to spell "involve" correctly. Otherwise the kid is in trouble no matter who is trying to teach him or her.
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Offline Tero

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2012, 12:07:38 AM »
Most of my teachers were ok. Some were so bad I could have a better attitude to the subject just by reading the book at home.

But we are teaching kids to have too short an attention span. They will never survive an 8 hour day at the office. And we can't have all the people work from home either.

By high school age, the home schooled kids should be main streamed back to school. If there are religious objections, you have 14-15 years to brain wash your kids.

Offline IAmFirst

Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2012, 05:58:10 AM »
The closest I'd come to homeschooling is Montessori. At least it is based on the kids, rather than the parents' "needs".

Someone from a religious family would be exposed to the teachings and history of many religions-- ancient and modern. But we've seen in films like "Jesus Camp" that the parents are usually the ones who want certain curriculum, and they want it directed to an education only they want for their kids.

I'm still against homeschooling as a whole, only because of social aspects. No matter how well I teach my child, how could I guarantee he/she has had enough social experience where they can even take a subway by themselves to go to work? That'd be something I worry about anyway, but without a daily routine in a building which is not my own, how could I even consider my kid socially advanced enough to be ready for differing opinions from people with different schooling backgrounds without a sense of camaraderie?

I just feel home schooling, although planned and set for the child in question, is way too one-sided. I hardly would've been wanting to debate religion if I wasn't exposed to differing opinions on the subject since I was first in kindergarten. How about politics? Sociology? All from a textbook and not from a discussion with other kids you haven't met yet?
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Offline Bad Pear

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2012, 06:23:44 AM »
My thoughts on the subject can be found in the linked thread, so I won't repeat myself. A bit of anecdotal food for thought though: through various friendships my wife and I have come to know a dozen or so people who are being/were homeschooled[1].  These are highly literate young people who are not socially awkward in any way. While some of them do come from religious backgrounds, most of them are now extremely liberal and a-religious if not atheists. One of my wife's best friends often recounts anecdotes of her mother drilling her on her speaking ability by making her start over if she used a filler word such as 'uh' or 'um'. Needless to say she is a very articulate young woman.
 1. Most of them belonged to the same homeschooling group; i.e. they are organized and not chained up in their parents basement reading the bible all day. :)
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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2012, 06:26:48 AM »
a-religious if not atheists.

Going slightly off-topic for a second here: what's the difference? Religions (apparently) do not require deities, but deities require religion. Ergo, a-religious/irreligious=atheist. Note that whether one is agnostic or gnostic is irrelevant in this case.
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Offline shnozzola

Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2012, 07:41:09 AM »
The closest I'd come to homeschooling is Montessori. At least it is based on the kids, rather than the parents' "needs".

Yeah, my sister sent her kids to Waldorf school until 6th grade or so, and then public middle school and high school.  They both made out fine, loads of friends, and are now in college.
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Let's say that conservatives win the day with public education - and public schools become limited with funds and become some sort of afterthought for education of the poor, while wealthy "curriculum picked" schools get better and better, and our natural tendencies to divide ourselves into camps get strengthened.  That seems bad for society to me.  I think learning to want to stand in each other's shoes is incredibly important, perhaps the most important thing.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 07:42:45 AM by shnozzola »
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Offline monkeymind

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2012, 08:04:02 AM »
It depends on who is doing the Homeschooling I suppose.

My sister Homeschooled? her kids, and all her children are brilliant. She used secular material that she developed herself (she was a school teacher b4 kids). Her oldest is a brilliant forensic anthropologist. Her second oldest is about to graduate from a university with the highest GPA one can obtain. Her youngest knows something on just about everything at 8 years old. All the kids are well adapted socially. One has met a Christian girl at college and started to get dogmatic about stuff and closed-minded. Wouldn't even eat Christmas food, because they don't celebrate Pagan holidays.

My brother's wife Homeschools his kids. All Christian based curriculum. The kids appear to be at a great disadvantage to me. The science that I've seen is mostly based on the bible! I think they will definitely be at a disadvantage in the real world. For instance, all six children speak rapidly and with a very noticeable lisp. They and their Christian friends all believe it should be ignored and it will work out on its own. Several are already teenagers. In a public, or private school, they would have been advised to see a speech therapist.

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Offline Tero

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2012, 08:19:18 AM »
The statistics on home schooling are skewed. They claim that more homeschooled kids go to college. But these kids are hand picked by the parents or the kids themselves. The parents are kind of driven to excellence. On top of that, the kids are often smart enough to learn the coverd material without parental help. It is essentially a supervised study hall.

Offline jetson

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2012, 10:34:06 AM »
The closest I'd come to homeschooling is Montessori. At least it is based on the kids, rather than the parents' "needs".

Someone from a religious family would be exposed to the teachings and history of many religions-- ancient and modern. But we've seen in films like "Jesus Camp" that the parents are usually the ones who want certain curriculum, and they want it directed to an education only they want for their kids.

I'm still against homeschooling as a whole, only because of social aspects. No matter how well I teach my child, how could I guarantee he/she has had enough social experience where they can even take a subway by themselves to go to work? That'd be something I worry about anyway, but without a daily routine in a building which is not my own, how could I even consider my kid socially advanced enough to be ready for differing opinions from people with different schooling backgrounds without a sense of camaraderie?

I just feel home schooling, although planned and set for the child in question, is way too one-sided. I hardly would've been wanting to debate religion if I wasn't exposed to differing opinions on the subject since I was first in kindergarten. How about politics? Sociology? All from a textbook and not from a discussion with other kids you haven't met yet?

Placing children in public schools does not guarantee social success.  All it does is put them in the middle of a norm.  And no matter how smart the child is, or how well they get along, the public school system will always drag that child back to the mean.  How many children grow up to be massively successful, and their success in elementary school is noted?  How many are noted for dropping out, or being a misfit?

Offline Chronos

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2012, 11:44:21 AM »
I had always been against homeschooling until I met two particular women who did a remarkable job with it.

In general, I am against homeschooling because I think most people who wish to do it lack the skills to do it properly. If someone can truly do a good job of it, then so be it. However, considering my interactions with the public over the past 30 years, I think only a small group of our fellow citizens can pull it off.

I thought homeschoolers were always conservative christians teaching a skewed view of science, and agreed with the OP about socialization issues. Turns out, many homeschoolers are secular, doing an excellent job of teaching, and they include tons of field trips for socialization and learning. In fact, they're able to go on some school activities with the local schools, as I understand it.

At least where I live, most homeschooling parents are conservative Christians who have a stay-at-home mom but don't earn enough money to pay tuition at the local private religious schools -- and I have visited those private schools and was appalled to find fewer resources (per capita) in the schools than I had in my own home. A few other homeschoolers are well-educated, live-free types (sometimes pejoratively referred to as "hippies") who think that the local school system doesn't do enough and is dumbed-down.

I don't fear a lack of socialization in seeing other kids in the process of homeschooling because there are networks that help take care of that issue. Instead, I fear that kids who are homeschooled will not get to know the true inner workings of other kids, day-to-day, as the rest of us do as adults in the workplace. The trials and tribulations of motivating people to do things becomes more apparent when socialization occurs daily and routinely rather than in special projects or outings. There are all kinds of little things kids don't learn when homeschooled, but I must admit there are others that they do learn often by only being homeschooled.

I have several complaints about public school. Bullying. Class sizes that are too large for individual attention. Teaching to the lowest common denominator, leaving smart kids bored. Ditto on the other end, with struggling kids not able to catch up.

I am totally with you on this one. While no school system can be free of bullying, our local school system appears to be doing a good job of minimizing it. I am not aware of any big issues. The public schools in Maryland are excellent, for the most part. There are definitely issues at some of the smaller, rural schools and at the larger urban schools. There is a direct correlation to the parents of the children who attend -- the more wealthy and educated the parents, the better the local school system is. I am more than aware of that fact having been educated in smaller, rural schools and then having my daughter attend a larger school system with excellent resources. The differences are dramatic.

If there is one thing I could do in this life, it would be to revamp the education system as we know it. It floors me to think of how technologically advanced we are, yet we are conducting school in much the same ways as we did 100 years ago. We teach subjects to kids in certain grades -- either they pass the test or they don't. Either they pass with their classmates or they don't. They learn "skills" later in the working world. This makes zero sense to me. It not only hampers children who need more help in one area or another, but it also hinders those who would be capable of more but cannot rise above those who aren't. We should have a system of education that doesn't lock kids into "grades" that they must all be herded through, but we should have "levels" that they can individually achieve. The kids in a particular social group (age) should progress with each other because they are chronologically equal, but we should have a way of differentiating their academic progress so that those who can complete all the levels of a certain subject can do so early allowing them more time to focus on the subjects that give them trouble. In my daughter's case, she should be able to max out all of the English/literature classes because she maxed all of her standardized and specialized test results way back in 5th grade (she's now in 10th) because she is a voracious reader and writer, but she needs far more work on mathematics. My daughter does well in school, overall, and she does well on the standardized tests, overall, but the format of education that we are living with today does not match the needs of our society. It's lopsided to tradition rather than modern requirements.


Now, that said, I think it would be exceedingly rare to find a family that had the luxury of time, money and ability to do a good job at homeschooling.

Yes, that is the problem. I think it would be great if our society required parents to formally participate more in the education system. As it stands, rarely do any of us get a time-out from work or other things to really assist in the classroom.


I don't have an answer, but I'm not longer flat-out against homeschooling. I think when its well done it does a MUCH better job than public school. When its done badly you end up with kids who know little about the real world.

I had a friend who was homeschooled from 10th grade on because she was bullied in our school. There were other undiagnosed mental health issues with her that follow her through to this day, unfortunately. Her schooling did suffer, as well as her opportunities in life to this day. I won't say that homeschooling does a much better job than standard schooling, but it certainly does a much different job. I think it is a trade-off for one thing vs another. Parents who actively take part in their children's education, even when those children attend public schools, are much better off in general. Knowing some of the fellow parents and children in my daughter's class, we can tell who is talking to their kids in the evenings about current events, philosophy, history, physics, etc. Even one of my daughter's classmates had a father who read Voltaire to her when she was 4 (she one day asked why the cat was named Voltaire, and I'm sure she regretted what occurred next). But, that is not something that occurs in every home. In that regard, I let the public system educate my daughter during the day, and I provide more homeschooling in the evenings and weekends.

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Offline IAmFirst

Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2012, 02:58:15 PM »

Placing children in public schools does not guarantee social success.  All it does is put them in the middle of a norm.  And no matter how smart the child is, or how well they get along, the public school system will always drag that child back to the mean.  How many children grow up to be massively successful, and their success in elementary school is noted?  How many are noted for dropping out, or being a misfit?

Hey, Jet, there's NO guarantees that someone doesn't turn out to be successful in either public or very private education. Public schools out here in CA are all overcrowded and yes, they need to beat the mean, but to stand out in any school/work situation, you have to be extra-cirriculum about it. You join workshops, after school sports, etc.

What really scares me on homeschooling is many of these extra-cirricular activities take place in churches and god-fearing communities. Maybe it's just small-town homeschooling that scares me. I think it would be a better plan in a larger community where different people are abundant.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2012, 03:59:15 PM »
I would have lovd to be homeschooled.  I practically did it to myself by reading the entire encyclopedia that we had.  However, I am very glad now that I was not homeschooled.  My parents could not have done a good job nor did they have the time.  IMO, human children need the exposure to people who are not like them and who do not agree with them, and in a neutral environment where the parent isn't totally in control.  YMMV.

My brother and SIL were going to homeschool until SIL realized just how much work it is. 

now, that said, I want to be adopted by Jetson and wife.  ;)
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Offline jetson

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2012, 07:43:53 PM »


now, that said, I want to be adopted by Jetson and wife.  ;)

Ha!  We are completely awesome in many ways.  Luckily, I'm humble about it.  Mostly.   ;D

Offline albeto

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2012, 08:11:01 PM »
Another secular homeschooling parent here.   As expected, I agree with Jetson.  The stereotype of homeschoolers is the Jesus Camp kind of supporter who protects their child from the Big Bad World.  We work to help our kids learn how to navigate the Great Wide World so that as adults they will be self-sufficient, responsible, virtuous, logical and compassionate people.  In short, my goal is to not unleash assholes into society, and so far my kids are doing great.  In my opinion, the argument about socialization is made from a lack of exposure and experience.  My kids are skeptical, analytic, pay attention to details, courteous and confident.  These are skills they were not getting in the school system but have had at home.  There was no voting option for me.  I didn't homeschool myself but I'm sure I would have preferred it.

Offline albeto

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2012, 08:28:13 PM »
How can anyone have the time or knowledge to home school children in todays world.

It's not so hard.  My kids experience everything from Picasso exhibits in major art museums to entomology - in the field collecting trips for days or weeks.  At the art museum we talked about everything from art and Pablo Picasso and his many lovers and how he painted them i different styles, to Franco, the Spanish Revolutionary War, Communism, Fascism, Stalin, the U.S.S.R and all kinds of things that popped up.  These conversations are constant because history is all around us - it's how we got to where we are today.  Science is the way to explain everything we see.  While collecting insects with dh (who is an entomologist), we learn about animal behavior, evolution, botany, plant pathology, eco-systems, etc.  Meanwhile, we're reading classic literature and discussing the things each one learns individually based on their own interests (like computer programming or drawing anime).  When someone learns according to their interests rather than according to a schedule, the information absorbed is greater in measure and there is better recall and application as time goes by.   

Also, kids need the social aspect of a school system to grow. 

Reminds me of the standard reply, "I just beat my kid up, lock him in the bathroom and steal his lunch money at home.  That way he's got the school socialization experience." 

Some home scholed kids do really well but their social skills seem to be lacking.  I would never do that to my kids.

I do see a great number of people homeschooling kids who couldn't cope in school.  Asperger's, ADHD, poor Executive Functioning skills and general non verbal learning disabilities do challenge kids in a most heart-wrenching way.  Some of these kids are fortunate enough to come out of the stressful environment of a school and do better at home with the kind of personal, constant attention to needs that simply can't be accommodated at school.  We've experienced schools with fantastic and professional staff who knew how to address the needs of our son, and we've experienced schools with truly evil and horrendous results, and we know many stories in both directions as well.   I think like anything else, it's a bit of a crap-shoot, and you do the best you can with what you have. 

Offline jetson

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2012, 11:08:21 PM »
Another secular homeschooling parent here.   As expected, I agree with Jetson.  The stereotype of homeschoolers is the Jesus Camp kind of supporter who protects their child from the Big Bad World.  We work to help our kids learn how to navigate the Great Wide World so that as adults they will be self-sufficient, responsible, virtuous, logical and compassionate people.  In short, my goal is to not unleash assholes into society, and so far my kids are doing great.  In my opinion, the argument about socialization is made from a lack of exposure and experience.  My kids are skeptical, analytic, pay attention to details, courteous and confident.  These are skills they were not getting in the school system but have had at home.  There was no voting option for me.  I didn't homeschool myself but I'm sure I would have preferred it.

What state are you in?  I have to say that Texas is about as liberal on this issue as a state can get - hell, they haven't checked on my child since he started!  Oddly enough, it's the Christian Right that lobbies for these laws, so I sort of feel bad, but not really.  We get to handle everything, with no interference.  He is very well socialized too - I can guarantee you he gets more field trips in one school year than public kids get the entire elementary run.  Almost everything we do is a learning field trip, and worked into our curriculum in some way.


Offline albeto

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2012, 01:39:31 AM »
^^^

California.  It's very accommodating, plus being a rather liberal area, most homeschoolers I know are secular and have no reason to limit education for the sake of protecting an ancient mythology.  We do have a lot of personal support in that way.  We have some sizable communities which are great for field trips, and various museums have "homeschool days" which are really well run.  This is the first year I registered independently, the last few years I was considered a private school under an umbrella school.  It was a classical education which I liked (kids hated), but it was Catholic and I couldn't unCatholic it enough.  Now I think I would gag a little just writing a check to an organization that supports the Catholic church in any way. 

My kids are rather well socialized also.  I've noticed a great deal of maturity since they came home from school.  Things like confidence, taking initiative, learning how to learn and accommodate themselves in whatever social situation they are in (with younger kids, peers, or adults), are all things they really didn't have the opportunity to do in school.  For example, when my dd came home I noticed she had learned very well the art of sitting still, not drawing attention to herself, and waiting to be passed over when she didn't know something.  It wasn't a skill I'd like her to have mastered.  ;-)

Offline Bad Pear

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2012, 01:48:40 AM »
a-religious if not atheists.

Going slightly off-topic for a second here: what's the difference? Religions (apparently) do not require deities, but deities require religion. Ergo, a-religious/irreligious=atheist. Note that whether one is agnostic or gnostic is irrelevant in this case.

Sorry for the delayed response Lucifer. The people in question are not atheists as they do have a vague belief in god, be it theistic or deistic I am not sure. I refer to them as areligious because they do not attend services, talk about it much, or identify openly with any organisation. They are for all intents and purposes not concerned with the topic. If they did not have what little god belief that they do I might refer to them as post-theists.

Hope that clears up what I meant. If not feel free to send me a PM or start a new thread as I hope to not derail this one over a definition.
Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions implode, atheism is what is left behind

Offline plethora

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2012, 08:48:45 AM »
I just re-read the old thread referenced in the OP and I have given this another thought with fresh eyes...

I can see a few 'pros' in home schooling kids in certain places or instances:

a) No risk of bullying by other pupils
b) Personalized and focused teacher/pupil attention
c) The teaching pace can be customized to the child's natural learning speed if the child is above average
d) If the child has special needs learning at home may be advantageous

In places where public schools suck ass in terms of pupils, curriculum or staff (like Texas), I can understand why it is a much better option to home school your kids.

I still stand by my list of home schooling requirements though. This list is to protect children from being home-schooled badly by incompetent parents. I want some level of training and progress checks to ensure the child is being educated to a minimum standard.

Here are my requirements:

1) The person who will be doing the teaching must attend and pass a home schooling training course and be interviewed by a social worker to determine if they are fit for it.

2) The teacher must either check-in to a local education center or receive a visit from a social worker twice a year to confirm the child's progress

3) The child must present an exam 2-3 times a year to confirm progress and maintain statistics

4) The teacher must not omit any part of the national curriculum, but they can teach additional subjects and use alternative materials

5) The child must have regular access to play groups and workshops groups to enable social skills

Those truly seeking a better education for their children (secular or not) should have no problem complying with the above.

... and those religious nutjobs who just want to hide their kids from the world can be forced to comply ensuring a minimum level of education is provided to their children, despite whatever else they are taught.
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline jetson

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2012, 09:08:45 PM »

1) The person who will be doing the teaching must attend and pass a home schooling training course and be interviewed by a social worker to determine if they are fit for it.

2) The teacher must either check-in to a local education center or receive a visit from a social worker twice a year to confirm the child's progress

3) The child must present an exam 2-3 times a year to confirm progress and maintain statistics

4) The teacher must not omit any part of the national curriculum, but they can teach additional subjects and use alternative materials

5) The child must have regular access to play groups and workshops groups to enable social skills

Those truly seeking a better education for their children (secular or not) should have no problem complying with the above.

... and those religious nutjobs who just want to hide their kids from the world can be forced to comply ensuring a minimum level of education is provided to their children, despite whatever else they are taught.

I'm still amazed that I have not heard from a single person from the state board of education on my child.  There is simply no accountability, and we are going off the deep end with record keeping, curriculum's, etc.  If they check on us, it will be clear that we go above the standards of public schools.  So if they had a better system of accountability, the nut jobs will be discovered, and found lacking.  It's a double-standard for the state to make this compulsory, and make public school students meet certain testing standards, putting schools and teachers in very tough situations, while simultaneously ignoring those who choose to home school.  For all they know, there is no teaching going on at all!


Offline plethora

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2012, 05:26:51 AM »
For all they know, there is no teaching going on at all!

Exactly!
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline Bad Pear

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2012, 01:16:43 PM »
For all they know, there is no teaching going on at all!

Exactly!

...and this level of ineptitude in government is why it is imperative that some parents homeschool in the first place. It's a vicious cycle!  :o
Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions implode, atheism is what is left behind

Offline Bad Pear

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2012, 01:22:23 PM »
Not that the poll here matters at all, but I'm sure if it were rephrased to something like "Is home schooling an acceptable alternative to public schooling?" rather than "Do you favor homeschooling?" we would find more people on the supporting side. At least qualified support.

Alas, those are two separate questions.
Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions implode, atheism is what is left behind

Offline albeto

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Re: Homeschooling
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2012, 01:30:11 PM »
...and this level of ineptitude in government is why it is imperative that some parents homeschool in the first place. It's a vicious cycle!  :o

This certainly was our case.

We don't follow a scheduled curriculum.  My kids learn at the speed of their neurological development, not the bell-curve of their peers.  For my Aspie, that means science is way ahead of schedule (like, graduate school information) but language arts are way behind.  For my neurotypical kids it's the same idea but just less dramatic.  To be forced on an artificial schedule would be to deny them the time and opportunity to excel in what they are good at, using those experiences to teach them the subjects they're not so good with in a real-world application kind of way.