Author Topic: Christians where are scientists correct and incorrect in each discipline?  (Read 2211 times)

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Offline kin hell

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I have spent too many hours of my life reading through the scripture twisting of atheists to go through this whole list, but the first one is good enough to demonstrate your dishonesty.

Exo 3: 21 I will grant this people favor in the sight of the Egyptians; and it shall be that when you go, you will not go empty-handed. 22 But every woman shall ask of her neighbor and the woman who lives in her house, articles of silver and articles of gold, and clothing; and you will put them on your sons and daughters. Thus you will plunder the Egyptians.”

This is not robbery. Merriam Websters defines robbery: "the act or practice of robbing; specifically : larceny from the person or presence of another by violence or threat. "

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/robbery

Second, you are ignoring the previous centuries of forced slavery.




Ah the practised deceit of a slippery theist.

My comment labelled your god as necessarily inconstant as inferred by your previous positioning.

I posted, as examples of that inconstancy, an extensive list of inconstancies (compiled elsewhere) .

So what do you do?
Having carefully informed us of the too many hours of your life
Quote from: Oli
reading through the scripture twisting of atheists

You immediately twist not only the scripture of your choice in a failed attempt to defend your god from plundering the Egyptians.
Or did you not read the word plunder?
But you seek to discredit the whole by trying and failing to discredit the one.

And you have the gall to call me dishonest.

Would you like to show where I have been dishonest?
Do you think by falsely labelling me it diminishes the evidence?

Of course you wouldn't want to discuss the idea of your god  mind-controlling the egyptians so they cannot possibly say no.

Quote
And I will give these people such favor in the sight of the Egyptians that when you go, you will not go empty-handed.
And it certainly shows how laughable the use of the verb "ask" is when the victim being asked cannot refuse.

Especially with the repeated use of the word plunder as again in EX 12:36
Quote
And the LORD gave the people such favor in the Egyptians’ sight that they gave them what they requested. In this way they plundered the Egyptians.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/plunder


Quote
plun·der  (plndr)
v. plun·dered, plun·der·ing, plun·ders
v.tr.
1. To rob of goods by force, especially in time of war; pillage: plunder a village.
2. To seize wrongfully or by force; steal: plundered the supplies.
v.intr.
To take booty; rob.
n.
1. The act or practice of plundering.
2. Property stolen by fraud or force; booty.

And you call atheists twisting?


Oh and thanks for providing the absolutely wonderful example of exactly your god's (+ biblical) inconstancy ....

Quote from: Oli
Second, you are ignoring the previous centuries of forced slavery.
praise the lord for freeing the slaves

Oh wait!
Colossians 3:22
Quote
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;

« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 09:16:25 PM by kin hell »
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Olivianus

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kin hell

Quote
Or did you not read the word plunder?

Words get their meaning from the context of their use. Your representation view of language is not tenable.


Quote
Oh and thanks for providing the absolutely wonderful example of exactly your god's (+ biblical) inconstancy ....

Oh wait!
Colossians 3:22  Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;

I do not reject all forms of slavery as every human society including our contemporary society very much uses slavery. Ever been to a penitentiary these days? Lots of production going on, especially in the privately owned prisons.


Slavery is a good thing when performed under the right pretexts and conditions. The african slave trade was muderous kidnapping worthy of death so don't get any ideas. I do not support the african slave trade of the South. 

Offline Anfauglir

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Quote
  I'm again asking you for specific as to the parts you believe, and the parts you don't.  Saying "the bits in the laboratory" doesn't really cut it - where do you believe the internal data bus was designed and developed, for example?
Quote

I have catered to you in detail above.

So...we're talking high concepts rather than specific mechanical procedures, would that be a fair summary?  Do you refuse those principles constantly, or just apply them to scientific principles?  For example, to take the first, do you honestly not accept the physical universe is knowable?  Or are there parts of the universe that you accept are knowable?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Olivianus

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Anfauglir,

Quote
So...we're talking high concepts rather than specific mechanical procedures, would that be a fair summary?

Define high concepts.

Quote
Do you refuse those principles constantly, or just apply them to scientific principles?  For example, to take the first, do you honestly not accept the physical universe is knowable?

The physical world in total is unknowable. Knowledge only comes from The Teacher. The second person of the Trinity. He imparts an immediate and uncreated light. http://olivianus.thekingsparlor.com/epistemology-and-metaphysics/was-augustine-a-scripturalist-by-drake

 



Offline kin hell

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kin hell

Quote
Or did you not read the word plunder?

Words get their meaning from the context of their use. Your representation view of language is not tenable.

Words get their meaning from correct use. Your babble doesn't even represent tenable use of language.
And perhaps you'd like to indicate where my use of the dictionary differed from yours.
And congrats on your exemplary deceitful dodging, failing to address the concept that even if you hadn't failed in debunking the individual "contradictory" example, the plethora of other examples of your god's bible's inconstancy is something you cannot deny. 

You really are just another desperate distorter for jesus aren't you?
Making claims with no evidence, desperately mis-interpreting, obfuscating like a sad and desperate dodging defender of the indefensible.

I have posted statements that I have supported with verifiable evidence.
You have stamped your foot and lied, offering no evidence, only falsehoods, and run away from any confronting truth.

Typical  theist, and you have the gall to call me dishonest.

Your hypocrisy is amazing   
>snip<
That's for you to prove. Asserting that my arguments are wrong is not an explanation of how or why they are wrong?




Quote from: kin hell
Oh and thanks for providing the absolutely wonderful example of exactly your god's (+ biblical) inconstancy ....

Oh wait!
Colossians 3:22  Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;

I do not reject all forms of slavery as every human society including our contemporary society very much uses slavery. Ever been to a penitentiary these days? Lots of production going on, especially in the privately owned prisons.


Slavery is a good thing when performed under the right pretexts and conditions. The african slave trade was muderous kidnapping worthy of death so don't get any ideas. I do not support the african slave trade of the South.


Thanks for providing further evidence of the distorted morality and unbelievably twisted mental landscape one needs to adopt to be a true believer in your god of inconstancy

1Timothy 1:9-10
Quote
We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine

Pity you're more a "Slaves obey your masters" type of guy, I could've felt less contempt for someone embracing the obvious judgement of Tim 1:9-10 that equates slavers with murderers, liars and perjurers.

So I guess you must be in favour of homosexuality too if you are going to gainsay the biblical morality as expressed in Tim 1:9-10?

Were you saying that your god is not inconstant, that your god's bible wasn't contradictory?



« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 07:46:10 PM by kin hell »
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Olivianus

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Edited to remove over-quoting

Oh, the bitter hubris of the refuted. First the passage does not say slave traders, it says kidnappers. Second, what kind of slave trade? There are different types. Third,  homosexuality is an abomination.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 07:58:23 PM by HAL »

Offline HAL

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Olivianus,

Cease your habit of quoting so much text. It's already in the thread for people to read. Only quote the minimum needed to respond - or break it up.

Offline Asmoday

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Second, what kind of slave trade? There are different types.
I'd be interested in what you'd classify as good slave trade.

Quote
Third,  homosexuality is an abomination.
Just like shrimps and clothes made out of mixed fabrics. You're not wearing polycotton clothes, are you?
Absilio Mundus!

I can do no wrong. For I do not know what it is.

Offline Olivianus

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Second, what kind of slave trade? There are different types.
I'd be interested in what you'd classify as good slave trade.

Quote
Third,  homosexuality is an abomination.
Just like shrimps and clothes made out of mixed fabrics. You're not wearing polycotton clothes, are you?

The prohibition against mixed fabrics was a ceremonial law, pertaining to the commonwealth of Israel which passed away with the Oblation of Christ, the fulfillment of all ceremonial types.

Online One Above All

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Olivianus, if homosexuality is such an abomination, why did your god create it?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Olivianus

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Olivianus, if homosexuality is such an abomination, why did your god create it?

Causality is not jointly exhaustive with creation. But I will admit God ultimately (not immediately) causes evil.

1. For his own glory in the punishment of the wicked, his justice will be glorified.

2. Some aspects, not all, of his mercy are revealed in the face of evil. God is merciful without the existence of evil, but some aspects of his mercy are more emphasized in its face.

Luke 7:47 "For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little."

Online One Above All

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And where is the evil in loving someone?

BTW, just so you know, you basically just said that your god is an insecure dick.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Olivianus

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Lucifer

Quote
And where is the evil in loving someone?

I never said it was evil to love someone. I said that evil, like the sins that women in Luke 7, present an opportunity for God to reveal aspects of his mercy which are not possible without that evil.
 

Offline kin hell

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Edited to remove over-quoting

Oh, the bitter hubris of the refuted. First the passage does not say slave traders, it says kidnappers.

hubris?   hah  classic projection.  and you accuse me of being dishonest.

I quoted the biblical passage via cut and paste oh desperate wriggler for jesus Oilianus.

It says slave trader.

I have bolded for your sake to enable to to see past your god-given selective blindness....

 Of course I do not expect your intellectual honesty nor your christian moral character to be capable of defeating your overwhelming hubris so as to enable you to acknowledge my accuracy regarding this matter.
No, I expect you'll run away now, saying something necessary, timely and ultimately cowardly like "I will no longer answer your posts" you christian defender of the faith.
Actually I expect you'll just run away without ever referring to this again (that's OK I'll come along for the joke jog just to help you remember).

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+1&version=NIV


Quote
10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine

Second, what kind of slave trade? There are different types.

Here's a trick, Oilianus if you are going to lie, be consistent.

Either (as you claim) the passage does not say "slave traders", in which case you are correct and you would (if that were the case) not ever even think to ask this then absolutely pointless question, or, as you have done,
you betray your knowing lie "that the passage does not say slave traders" by seeking to engineer an alternative "suitable" meaning to the supposedly unused phrase.

You really are a lightweight. I would've thought your inconstant god would've at least gird your lyings loins with something more effective than amateur.

Third,  homosexuality is an abomination.

hold on hold on
......you can't have it both ways. Either 1Tim 1:9-10 is accurate (homosexuality is as bad a murdering your folks) or it is inaccurate as you claim (slave trading is not as bad as murdering your folks)

Or are you following the necessary christian bible reading trait of cherry picking?

Lucky that your brain is so plastic Oilianus, so at ease with inconsistency, I imagine that slippery mold-i-ness is an incredible aid in following your god's bible's inescapable inconsistency.
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Online One Above All

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I never said it was evil to love someone.

Fine. Why is it an abomination to love someone? Because that's what homosexuals do - they love other people of the same gender as themselves.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Olivianus

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Kin hell,

Quote
It says slave trader.

You quoted out of the NIV which is a dynamic equivalence version. It does not always portray the reading of the original texts under it. It emphasizes readability over technical accuracy.

The KJV reads "menstealers"

The NASB says, "kidnappers"

When speaking about a slave the greek text always employs some root of doulos. The greek word in that verse is andrapodistes. It is literally men-stealer. Now certainly unlawful slave-trading involves men-stealing, as in the wicked African slave trade America was involved in. That does not mean the term is jointly exhaustive with slave-trading.


Quote
hold on hold on
......you can't have it both ways. Either 1Tim 1:9-10 is accurate (homosexuality is as bad a murdering your folks) or it is inaccurate as you claim (slave trading is not as bad as murdering your folks)

What are you talking about? You go from comparing homosexuality to murder to slave trading to murder. You are truly a bag of nuts.

Offline Olivianus

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Lucifer,

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Why is it an abomination to love someone?

Let's says you had a young son, say 8 years old. Do you then admit that it is ok for a 55 year old Man, an old pervert that lives across the street from you to be in love with your son? Are you ok with that? And for your son to be in love with him?

Quote
Because that's what homosexuals do - they love other people of the same gender as themselves.

You are only aiding my counter-question.

Offline kin hell

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Kin hell,

Quote
It says slave trader.

You quoted out of the NIV which is a dynamic equivalence version. It does not always portray the reading of the original texts under it. It emphasizes readability over technical accuracy.

The KJV reads "menstealers"

The NASB says, "kidnappers"

When speaking about a slave the greek text always employs some root of doulos. The greek word in that verse is andrapodistes. It is literally men-stealer. Now certainly unlawful slave-trading involves men-stealing, as in the wicked African slave trade America was involved in. That does not mean the term is jointly exhaustive with slave-trading.



thank you for so exhaustively proving the one point I have been trying to make all this time.

Your god's bible is inconstant, contradictory, and infinitely mutable.

I could not have asked for a better representation to this truth than you showing me here how without special tools, education, resources, the bible cannot be read understood or trusted.



Hallelujah   you are a winner.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 09:06:41 PM by kin hell »
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Online One Above All

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Let's says you had a young son, say 8 years old. Do you then admit that it is ok for a 55 year old Man, an old pervert that lives across the street from you to be in love with your son? Are you ok with that? And for your son to be in love with him?

Homosexuality is not pedophilia. Try again.

EDIT: Just so there's no misunderstanding here, I'm going to use your logic to prove that heterosexuality is an abomination as well.
Let's say you had a young daughter, say 8 years old. Do you then admit that it is ok for a 55 year old Man, an old pervert that lives across the street from you to be in love with your daughter? Are you ok with that? And for your daughter to be in love with him?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 09:10:59 PM by Lucifer »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Olivianus

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kin hell,


Quote
Hallelujah   you are a winner.

So then you admit that when Buffalo Bill in Silence of the lambs kidnaps girls for the flesh off their backs and kills them that this is a case of slave trading?

Offline Olivianus

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Lucifer,

Quote
Homosexuality is not pedophilia. Try again.

Distinguishing two types of love is not an answer to my question. You justified homosexuality by appealing to love. It is now your task, not mine to show THE QUALITY of one type of love over another.

Online One Above All

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Distinguishing two types of love is not an answer to my question.

Uh... Yeah, it is.
EDIT: I added this to my previous post, but you had already written yours, apparently. Here.
Just so there's no misunderstanding here, I'm going to use your logic to prove that heterosexuality is an abomination as well.
Let's say you had a young daughter, say 8 years old. Do you then admit that it is ok for a 55 year old Man, an old pervert that lives across the street from you to be in love with your daughter? Are you ok with that? And for your daughter to be in love with him?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline kin hell

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Oilianus

you really dodge every little confrontational reality don't you?

You dodged earlier the actual dictionary meaning of the word "plunder" with your under-whelmingly un-supported desperate lie.
You dodged admitting that even if you had succeeded in discrediting one of the examples I originally gave(you failed), that it didn't diminish any of the plethora of other examples of your inconstant god.
You dodged admitting that if one needs to refer to the root of doulos in the original greek to get any accurate meaning from the bible, then it cannot be trusted in everyday lay useage. (which is exactly the point I am making about an inconstant and contradictory god's rule book).

When you start to answer some of the actual points instead of oiling your slippery path further and further from the actual skewer point perhaps then you might manage some credibility.

What you are doing is pedanting(sic) the minuscule into becoming a necessarily large distractor from the glaring truth.

It's boringly obvious, it's typical, and it fails.

What sort of god is yours, that would want a creature of practised deceit such as you, defending it?
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Olivianus

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Lucifer


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Uh... Yeah, it is.

Typing it does not make it so.



Offline Olivianus

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Kin hell,

Due to your repeated dismissals of what is before you, your insolent language and your devotion to nonsense do not expect for me to reply to any more of your posts.

Offline kin hell

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Kin hell,

Due to your repeated dismissals of what is before you, your insolent language and your devotion to nonsense do not expect for me to reply to any more of your posts.

nothing if not predictable...




 Of course I do not expect your intellectual honesty nor your christian moral character to be capable of defeating your overwhelming hubris so as to enable you to acknowledge my accuracy regarding this matter.
No, I expect you'll run away now, saying something necessary, timely and ultimately cowardly like "I will no longer answer your posts" you christian defender of the faith.

"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Online One Above All

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Typing it does not make it so.

I asked about homosexuality, wherein two men or two women love each other, not about pedophilia, wherein one man or one woman is sexually attracted[1] to a child.
I wanted to avoid calling homosexuality a sexual attraction between individuals of the same gender[2] for that very reason, as well as to avoid any erroneous claims that it is a choice. Shows just how ignorant you are.

Due to your repeated dismissals of what is before you, your insolent language and your devotion to nonsense do not expect for me to reply to any more of your posts.

I find your insolence disturbing.
 1. Note the difference between sexual attraction and love.
 2. Which is true; I should've said "Homosexuals are people who fall in love with others of the same gender as themselves."
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Olivianus

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Quote
I asked about homosexuality, wherein two men or two women love each other, not about pedophilia, wherein one man or one woman is sexually attracted[1] to a child.
 1. Note the difference between sexual attraction and love.

But that is not what i said was it? I said he loved the boy and the boy loved him. You just assume, in your typical empiricist solipsism that this is impossible because you don't feel that way.

Quote
Shows just how ignorant you are.

Keep the insults coming please. I feed on them.

Online One Above All

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But that is not what i said was it? I said he loved the boy and the boy loved him. You just assume, in your typical empiricist solipsism that this is impossible because you don't feel that way.

No, it is not what you said. Which is the whole point. What you said does not relate to what I asked.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 10:01:26 PM by Lucifer »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.