Author Topic: Righteous Abortion: How Conservative Christians Promote What They Claim to Hate  (Read 3239 times)

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Offline Alzael

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Seemed an interesting article and an interesting viewpoint. So I thought I'd toss it out for the dogs to chew on.

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2012/1/22/19617/0671/Front_Page/Righteous_Abortion_How_Conservative_Christians_Promote_What_They_Claim_to_Hate
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Offline jetson

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Interesting article, thanks for sharing.

I'm not surprised, really.  And I tend to agree overall.  The fact that we have so many abortions, and that it is largely due to unwanted pregnancy, say's that we clearly need both safe abortions, and contraceptives that work even better.  And, as the writer suggests, the better contraceptives would help reduce the need for abortions in the first place.  Sadly though, that would be admitting that it's OK to have sex, and we can't have that, now can we?


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This is pretty much what I've been saying on the topic for ages.  Being anti-abortion isn't about trying to help the unborn, it's about trying to oppress women.  Everything makes much more sense with that in mind.
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Offline Alzael

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This is pretty much what I've been saying on the topic for ages.  Being anti-abortion isn't about trying to help the unborn, it's about trying to oppress women.  Everything makes much more sense with that in mind.

Agreed. The simple fact that they show no concern for the welfare of the child or the mother beyond the birth itself is a testament to that fact.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 08:37:09 PM by Alzael »
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

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Offline jetson

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This is pretty much what I've been saying on the topic for ages.  Being anti-abortion isn't about trying to help the unborn, it's about trying to oppress women.  Everything makes much more sense with that in mind.

QFT.  I just wish there was a way to get the bastards to admit it.

Offline magicmiles

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What a load of absolute bullshit. If you took away the faith based humaniatarian organisations in the world I don't think there would be much doubt about whether or not Christians have compassion on the broken and hurting people in this world.

You buch of fucking assholes. Thyats right..a Christian swore. I'm fucking mad. The bullshit generalisations you make are sickening. This site is popular and attractive to idiots like me who like to waste their time arguing, but its also a big indictment on the warped, pathetic mindset so many "atheists" seem to have. Half the threads started exist purely to allow the same old people a chance to unfurl the same old insults. Ever heard the saying "thou doest protest too much"?

Oh yes....yes. Christians are the cause of abortions because...because...because we claim that sex should be between a husband and wife? Oh, we are such assholes. Don't we know that sex is fun? Don't we know that you can't possibly expect people to exercise any self control? Can't we just accept that people have the right to have sex when they want with whoever they want?

Muppets.

You try and claim that it's so hard to be an atheist in the USA, it's hard to say you don't believe in God. What complete and utter bullshit. Every single major TV show that comes out of your cess pool of a country is a reflection on your society values because guess what? Money talks so very loud, and I have EVERY confidence that the TV studios know what level of God hating or ignoring citizen their show will successfully target market. Don't even get me started on the 100,000,000,000 billion dollar PORN INDUSTRY that must somehow sneak under the radar in the religious USA...are you people actually for real?

So you have to put up with dipshit idiot money grabbing "preachers" on cable TV...boo hoo. It doesn't mean your surrounded by Christians, fools. Just look around at YOUR FUCKING CULTURE.

Rant over. In case you hadn't worked it out or weren't told, I was "Vandortok". I stupidly wanted to keep participating in your ridiculous web site and felt embarrased to come back as MM when I'd said I wouldn't be back. I was dishonest. Oh no. Going by your usual generalising, you will now start a thread called "theists are all liars". Whatever.

I won't be back.
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Online Azdgari

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What a load of absolute bullshit. If you took away the faith based humaniatarian organisations in the world I don't think there would be much doubt about whether or not Christians have compassion on the broken and hurting people in this world.

Of course they do.  Because they're human.

You buch of fucking assholes. Thyats right..a Christian swore. I'm fucking mad. The bullshit generalisations you make are sickening. This site is popular and attractive to idiots like me who like to waste their time arguing, but its also a big indictment on the warped, pathetic mindset so many "atheists" seem to have. Half the threads started exist purely to allow the same old people a chance to unfurl the same old insults. Ever heard the saying "thou doest protest too much"?

Which generalization?  The one that says that people who claim to be against abortion, yet are in favor of policies that promote abortion, probably have some other motive than reducing the # of abortions?  The only generalization there is the one that says the "pro-lifers" have put thought into their position.  If they havn't, they may not be malicious, and may only be unthinking hypocrites.  But those are the options.

Of course, some "pro-lifers" really do favor increased sex-education and the availability of contraception.  But the OP isn't directed at them.

Oh yes....yes. Christians are the cause of abortions because...because...because we claim that sex should be between a husband and wife? Oh, we are such assholes. Don't we know that sex is fun? Don't we know that you can't possibly expect people to exercise any self control? Can't we just accept that people have the right to have sex when they want with whoever they want?

Because you (apparently you, since you're defending this point of view) like to pretend that sex doesn't happen.  People don't always exercise self-control when it comes to sex.  That's reality.  Especially for young people.  Abstinence-only sex-ed and a taboo around contraception don't change that.  They just make it more dangerous for all involved.  That's either an unintentional outcome (a result of a poorly-thought-out position), or it's an intentional outcome (a result of malice).  Take your pick.  Reality forces you to.

Muppets.

Kermit?

You try and claim that it's so hard to be an atheist in the USA, it's hard to say you don't believe in God. What complete and utter bullshit. Every single major TV show that comes out of your cess pool of a country is a reflection on your society values because guess what? Money talks so very loud, and I have EVERY confidence that the TV studios know what level of God hating or ignoring citizen their show will successfully target market. Don't even get me started on the 100,000,000,000 billion dollar PORN INDUSTRY that must somehow sneak under the radar in the religious USA...are you people actually for real?

The porn is watched more in areas with more right-wing religious folks.  Folks like you, apparently.  I wonder why that is?

Not sure what this all has to do with atheism, though.

So you have to put up with dipshit idiot money grabbing "preachers" on cable TV...boo hoo. It doesn't mean your surrounded by Christians, fools. Just look around at YOUR FUCKING CULTURE.

Well, we're surrounded by people who call themselves Christians.  Why would they do that if they didn't believe?  Are they all liars?  Do real Christians number in a couple of tens of millions, or something?

Rant over. In case you hadn't worked it out or weren't told, I was "Vandortok". I stupidly wanted to keep participating in your ridiculous web site and felt embarrased to come back as MM when I'd said I wouldn't be back. I was dishonest. Oh no. Going by your usual generalising, you will now start a thread called "theists are all liars". Whatever.

Theists aren't all liars.  This site just tends to attract the bad apples.  Like you.

I won't be back.

Not as magicmiles or Vandertok, anyway...
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Online Azdgari

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MM (or whoever you return as) - what do you think is the best way to sooth your anger and hatred toward those not of your faith?
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Online Azdgari

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QFT.  I just wish there was a way to get the bastards to admit it.

Often there is.  Sometimes they'll slip up and characterize childbirth as a necessary consequence for the pregnant woman's actions, and that she would be avoiding that consequence by aborting.  That line of thinking has nothing whatsoever to do with the unborn, and everything to do with using childbirth as a form of punishment.

Other times they might characterize women with unwanted pregnancies as slutty/promiscuous ("boozy sluts" in one memorable case on here), and deserving of whatever she gets.  This moral judgment is not generally applied to the man, of course.  In general, the negative judgment is for having committed the crime of having recreational sex in the first place.  The fact that she's now pregnant is merely a useful means of punishing her for that crime, a form of poetic justice.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Muppets.

I was "Vandortok".

I won't be back.




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Online wright

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Sometimes I despair for my country. I feel sorriest for my nephew's generation, who are going to have to deal with the consequences of such idiocy long after the idiots have gone to the grave.


Rant over. In case you hadn't worked it out or weren't told, I was "Vandortok". I stupidly wanted to keep participating in your ridiculous web site and felt embarrased to come back as MM when I'd said I wouldn't be back. I was dishonest. Oh no. Going by your usual generalising, you will now start a thread called "theists are all liars". Whatever.

Yeah. Why would we indulge in such generalizing when we have such sterling examples of Christian behavior like you, magic? You do realize (actually I'm not all sure that you do, but I still hold a sliver of hope) that your deceit has made it that much more difficult for future Christian visitors to this forum?

Not all theists are liars. There are some here that have my respect; they've earned it. I thought you had earned a bit with your honesty. My mistake.

Quote
I won't be back.

With that sock-puppetry as an exit, I for one won't miss you.
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Offline kindred

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I have to disagree on the abstinence doesn't work part. I have never impregnated a woman in my life that I haven't had sexual intercourse with. I have also never had sex and I'm 19. I've had the opportunity to do so many a times yet I confine myself with just wiping my ass  with the affection of women who are into me sexually.

Why? because I've know about sex before I was 9. I knew it scientifically at a very young age WITHOUT any help whatsoever from my parents. At 9 I understood that sex=feels good and sex=conquest. Yet did I have sex? NO! Even with a condom AND birth control the, consequences are just far too dire for me to risk it. No matter how low the chance is. Think of the reason why you wear a seat-belt and you'll understand why I've never had sex.

Why can't you expect the other teens to live up to the same standards I myself have? Its not like I'm a genius or anything.
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Online Azdgari

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Sounds like comprehensive sex education worked for you, eh Kindred?

I never said that abstinence doesn't work to prevent pregnancy.  I said that abstinence-only sex-ed doesn't work.  You weren't given that.
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Offline jetson

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magic and vander - don't be cowards (yes, I know you're the same person)

Stand up for what you believe, and stop acting like a persecuted pair of crybaby's.  There are people on this planet, like me, who do not accept Christianity as anything more than disgusting and vile, to be mocked and ridiculed into oblivion.  And no matter how many people call themselves Christian, they simply cannot go as far as to claim that their belief in fairy tales and magic sky daddy's is the only reason, or the reason for their being good, or nice to others.  People are either generally decent, or they are absolute asshats - religion or not.

No matter what label a charity paints on the side of it's trucks, or prints on it's brochures, it is generally a good thing for humanity.  All charities that work hard to help the needy are good, in my mind.  I don't care if they are Satanists, Wiccans, or Jesus lovers.  I don't care if they call themselves Al Quaeda - as long as they donate their goods to the needy, and are not making massive profits while doing so (sorry Catholics, you still suck in that area).

And as far as abortion, there is no reason at all to oppose abortion that is not backed by stupid religious bullshit.  Humans are aborting babies at a rate that clearly indicates the need for abortions, otherwise, it wouldn't be happening.  And people need to get over it, put on their adult pants, and either help to minimize the need, or get the fuck out of the way.  The last thing we need is a pack of god-bothering fucktards with their bombs and threats to doctors and women blathering on about it and stopping progress.

If an otherwise decent human being cannot face the cold hard facts about abortion, they need to get out of the debate, and get a new hobby.  If they really want to help, then they should be supporting all of the scientific and medical efforts to minimize the need for abortion.  Now, as far as getting pregnant, well, the only people I am aware of that feel the need to tell people when it is OK to have sex, are religious zealots, using their holy books as justification.  Parents have enough problems to deal with, without the churches injecting their morals into the bedrooms, and perhaps back seats of teenagers and or consenting adults.  Humans like to have sex.  And religious people who don't like it, need to shut up about it.

By the way - the religious people who are the most upset over abortion, are typically right-wing, conservative Christians in the U.S.  I know plenty of liberal Christians who don't feel the need to heap their morals upon everyone else.

Offline jaimehlers

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What a load of absolute bullshit.
Way to actually think about what you read instead of jumping to conclusions based on emotional outrage.  Oh, wait...

Quote from: magicmiles
If you took away the faith based humaniatarian organisations in the world I don't think there would be much doubt about whether or not Christians have compassion on the broken and hurting people in this world.
The article had nothing to do with humanitarian organizations, faith-based or otherwise.  It was making the point that conservative Christians are more interested in opposing abortion than in ending it.

Quote from: magicmiles
You buch of fucking assholes. Thyats right..a Christian swore.
The fact that a Christian cusses is not exactly meaningful.

Quote from: magicmiles
I'm fucking mad. The bullshit generalisations you make are sickening.
And your attitude isn't?  Never mind that you're jumping to conclusions on these so-called "generalizations".

Quote from: magicmiles
This site is popular and attractive to idiots like me who like to waste their time arguing, but its also a big indictment on the warped, pathetic mindset so many "atheists" seem to have. Half the threads started exist purely to allow the same old people a chance to unfurl the same old insults. Ever heard the saying "thou doest protest too much"?
The quotation from Shakespeare is actually, "the lady doth protest too much, methinks".  It actually refers to someone who affirms something so much that their credibility is lost.  And believe me, you're doing a great job of demolishing your own credibility with this protest.

Quote from: magicmiles
Oh yes....yes. Christians are the cause of abortions because...because...because we claim that sex should be between a husband and wife? Oh, we are such assholes. Don't we know that sex is fun? Don't we know that you can't possibly expect people to exercise any self control? Can't we just accept that people have the right to have sex when they want with whoever they want
Did you ever stop to think about why "sex should be between a husband and wife", or are you just parroting what you were taught to believe?  The reason is because for most of human history, it was very difficult to keep a woman from getting pregnant by having sex; furthermore, it could be extremely difficult to establish paternity of a child unless it was clear who had sex with the woman.

Today, neither are nearly so much of an issue.  It is considerably easier to block unintended pregnancies from happening in the first place, and it is easy to run a DNA test to confirm paternity.  The other reasons you list are personal ones, and to be perfectly blunt, I don't care if you exercise them (as long as you actually do) nor do I care if you encourage others to exercise them.  However, I do care when people try to force others to abide by those reasons via fait accompli.

Quote from: magicmiles
Muppets.
Oh, yes, here's a sensible comment.

Quote from: magicmiles
You try and claim that it's so hard to be an atheist in the USA, it's hard to say you don't believe in God. What complete and utter bullshit. Every single major TV show that comes out of your cess pool of a country is a reflection on your society values because guess what? Money talks so very loud, and I have EVERY confidence that the TV studios know what level of God hating or ignoring citizen their show will successfully target market. Don't even get me started on the 100,000,000,000 billion dollar PORN INDUSTRY that must somehow sneak under the radar in the religious USA...are you people actually for real?
You don't even live in America, and yet you think you have the first idea of what this country is actually like?  This is ignorance and arrogance talking, nothing more.  Kindly learn that of what you speak before you make a bigger fool out of yourself than you already have.

Quote from: magicmiles
So you have to put up with dipshit idiot money grabbing "preachers" on cable TV...boo hoo. It doesn't mean your surrounded by Christians, fools. Just look around at YOUR FUCKING CULTURE.
Again, you do not live in America, so do not make foolish pronouncements about what living in America is actually like.

Quote from: magicmiles
Rant over. In case you hadn't worked it out or weren't told, I was "Vandortok". I stupidly wanted to keep participating in your ridiculous web site and felt embarrased to come back as MM when I'd said I wouldn't be back. I was dishonest. Oh no. Going by your usual generalising, you will now start a thread called "theists are all liars". Whatever.
Now who's generalizing?  Maybe you should stop assuming you already know and actually pay real attention.

Quote from: magicmiles
I won't be back.
Which you said last time.

Offline jetson

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Thanks Jaimehlers - that was a more civil reply to MM.   ;D

Offline Hatter23

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100,000,000,000 billion dollar PORN INDUSTRY that must somehow sneak under the radar in the religious USA


So somehow the porn industry is 100,000,000,000 billion dollars, but the Gross Product of the world is 60,690 billion.

Porn comprises 164 million percent of the total world economy. Interesting figure.

and yet you wonder why we might think you stupid.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 04:38:24 PM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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The porn industry doesn't have anything for the pedophile priests,because sex with minors is illeagal. For the Porn industry to be so large,someone has to buy the PORN. We all know you theists have a box of porn under your bed or in the back of your closet. The idea that GOOD Christians do not indulge in porn is laughable,they don't hire male prostitutes either DO THEY.

 Time and time again some dumb-ass Christian will get up on his soap-box and whine about porn,prostitution and infidelity,and almost everytime they do they get their skeletons yanked out of their closets. They are then exposed as thr hypocrites they are,can anybody say Newt?
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Offline kindred

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Sounds like comprehensive sex education worked for you, eh Kindred?

I never said that abstinence doesn't work to prevent pregnancy.  I said that abstinence-only sex-ed doesn't work.  You weren't given that.

I wasn't give ANY education on the matter. I figured it out on my own and so did most of my high-school classmates. I was just not stupid enough to risk it. It boggles my mind why people with no long term plan for the consequences would risk it.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 02:35:19 AM by kindred »
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Offline jaimehlers

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I wasn't give ANY education on the matter. I figured it out on my own and so did most of my high-school classmates. I was just not stupid enough to risk it. It boggles my mind why people with no long term plan for the consequences would risk it.
Because for most people, the long-term is so far down the line that it might as well not exist.  They have to worry about the tree they're about to run into before they can worry about maybe running out of gas because there isn't another gas station nearby.

Offline Truth OT

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As many of you would guess I am not a huge fan of abortion. In rare instances I can see how the procedure may be warranted, but in most instances it is initiated as a sort of "oops, my bad, I'm sorry" for a bad or for series of bad decisions made.

That being said, abortion is not a problem in and of itself. What it is is a symptom of the real problem of people getting pregnant or getting someone pregnant without being prepared for the consequences. So, what can we do as a society about the real problem? Everyone is quick to say that education is the best tool to employ, but I am not so sure that is actually the case anymore.

Sex education in its current form aimed mainly at a high school and up audience has been utilized for decades and it seems that ignorance is still prevailent as each generation has more than its share of parents that have no business bringing kids into this world doing just that. I am more convinced that education and the issues surrounding sex should become an elementary subject. We are WAAAAAAAAAY behind the curve in this respect as an educational system. Kids are and have been talking about sex (usually lying, but discussing it nonetheless) at or arounf 8 years old, yet there's some taboo about having 4th graders be instruction/educated on the issue by expert, mature, adult educators. The values of respecting one's body, as well as that of being responsible for those we bring into the world should be instilled at a very young age with the intent of both educating the young of our number and that of fostering an atmosphere of positive peer pressure as it relates to sexual behavior and being responsible for the consequences of choices often made in private.

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Sex education generally consists of "this is the biology behind sex...now DON'T DO IT!"  That was true even in my Canadian high school.

So no, TOT, I disagree that the tool of education has been seriously employed in this area.
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Offline jetson

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ToT - can you see it simply for what it is - namely, people enjoy sex, and occasionally an unwanted pregnancy occurs?  Now, as a society, we can blather back and forth until eternity on the morality, and other considerations, but the bottom line is that sex is not going to stop happening, and unwanted pregnancies are going to continue as a result.  And we have the option of terminating the pregnancy today.

As far as I can tell, the only way we can reduce abortions, is to reduce unwanted pregnancies.  I think that reducing unwanted pregnancies is achievable, actually.  And if it is achievable, and we make it a priority, then a by-product will be the reduction of terminating unwanted pregnancies.

No matter how one feels about it, it is here to stay, not until we legislate it away, but when we get some better methods for reducing unwanted pregnancies in the first place.  Sex education is a part of that goal, for sure, but it won't complete the goal.  Humans have sex because we are biologically programmed for it.  WE are naturally driven towards it, and we sometimes cause pregnancies as a result, which is exactly what the goal of intercourse is between a man and a woman.

I fully support terminating unwanted pregnancies because it is necessary, and because we have not yet found the best ways to prevent it.  Telling people they cannot have an abortion is probably the worst approach to helping people in these cases (not that you are advocating this.)
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 09:03:32 PM by jetson »

Offline magicmiles

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but the otto line is that sex is not going to stop happening

Otto is some kind of super horny German?  ;D
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline jetson

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but the otto line is that sex is not going to stop happening

Otto is some kind of super horny German?  ;D

Ha!  Damn spell check!

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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but the otto line is that sex is not going to stop happening

Otto is some kind of super horny German?  ;D

I forgot the safe word...WHAT'S THE SAFE WORD??!!!
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Offline nogodsforme

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Other industrial countries have far fewer unwanted pregnancies and fewer teen pregnancies than the USA. This is with much more generous welfare and family allowances than we have in the US-- so the idea that people will have kids just to get more government payments does not necessarily hold.

Some of these countries have fewer abortions as well, even though abortion is legal and paid for by universal insurance. The difference is that in Canada, Europe, etc, there is a more realistic and less moralistic attitude about sexuality. They have open and honest sex ed from early ages, they have access to birth control and abortions.[1]

The European attitude is: People want to have sex from puberty on. People should have sex, because sex is a good and natural human behavior. Sex can have some unwanted consequences, so we should do what we can to minimize those.  And that approach works.

The US approach? Surround everyone with sexually provocative ads and entertainment from preschool on. Make everyone think that sex is the most important thing out there. Then, in sex ed class:

Tell people not to have sex unless married, tell them that most unmarried sex is bad, that teens are evil and dirty if they have sex, and that if they plan ahead before they have sex they are especially evil and dirty, and that if they do have unplanned sex and get a disease or get pregnant, well, that's what they deserve.

What's the main difference? The US is way more religious, of course.

I remember talking to a professor of public health back in the day. She said that she went to a conference in Canada on women's health care or some such. When the subject of birth control and sex ed came up, the US delegation was embarrassed because our stats were so abysmal compared to the Canadian. The Canadians were embarassed because they could not figure out why we were so backward.

Despite spending far more money, we have more unwanted pregnancies, abortions, teen pregnancies and higher infant mortality. We look like a third world country. And the main government policy? More anti-sex, anti-birth control "abstinence education".

 1. With a few exceptions like Ireland....
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline jetson

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Despite spending far more money, we have more unwanted pregnancies, abortions, teen pregnancies and higher infant mortality. We look like a third world country. And the main government policy? More anti-sex, anti-birth control "abstinence education".

If I had to make an educated guess, I would argue that the reason we are having these problems, is precisely because of the anti-abortion and religious attitudes towards women and sexual intercourse.  It's a control, a pressure, that when applied too strictly, causes the exact opposite of what it's proponents desire.  In other words, the more they try to legislate sex and morality, and women's health, the more it will be rejected. 

Mix that heavy oppressive pressure and attitude in with the biological urge and desire to have sex, and you have a perfect storm for higher abortion rates, and unwanted pregnancies.

Offline Truth OT

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Some of these countries have fewer abortions as well, even though abortion is legal and paid for by universal insurance. The ONE difference is that in Canada, Europe, etc, there is a more realistic and less moralistic attitude about sexuality. They have open and honest sex ed from early ages, they have access to birth control and abortions.[1]

The European attitude is: People want to have sex from puberty on. People should have sex, because sex is a good and natural human behavior. Sex can have some unwanted consequences, so we should do what we can to minimize those.  And that approach works.
 1. With a few exceptions like Ireland....

As I stated earlier, sex ed is something that we'd do well to employ from an elementary age, and it should be based on real worls situations as opposed to the health class text books that say hey: "naked body parts that can be connected, cool! Just make sure you know that sometimes when these parts play together bad things can happen."

 
The US approach? Surround everyone with sexually provocative ads and entertainment from preschool on. Make everyone think that sex is the most important thing out there. Then, in sex ed class:

Tell people not to have sex unless married, tell them that most unmarried sex is bad, that teens are evil and dirty if they have sex, and that if they plan ahead before they have sex they are especially evil and dirty, and that if they do have unplanned sex and get a disease or get pregnant, well, that's what they deserve.

What's the main difference? The US is way more religious, of course.

Despite spending far more money, we have more unwanted pregnancies, abortions, teen pregnancies and higher infant mortality. We look like a third world country. And the main government policy? More anti-sex, anti-birth control "abstinence education".

A big problem with the US approach is its reactionary nature. For years it seems that as a nation we had our collective eyes closed and ignored the fact that sex is a reality in people's lives from puberty on. The very topic had taken on a taboo nature and because of that attitude we have clinicians in healthcare facilities like Planned Parenthood and other places doing much of the sex education that is given on people that have already engaged in activity that has had an adverse effect on them resulting in various STD's or unplanned pregnancies.

The USA throws money, tons of it in the wrong places. What we do is throw money at treatment as opposed to investing more resources in prevention and fostering a national atmosphere where sex is not taboo or looked at as "evil". Having a more mature attitude about sex is a great starting point for attacking the problems that at times result from sex.


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The national message about sex is about as effective in garnering a desired outcome as the war on drugs has been. We need a new approach to education as a whole and even moreso in minority communities where problems are magnified. The messages about sex need to be delivered on a local basis as much as would be feazible. Considering that the USA has a population of over 300 million folks made up of various subcultures, ethnic diversity, and socio-economic diversity on levels far greater than most other industrialized nations, the approaches taken in those nations should not be looked at as approaches that would work the same here.
The problems we mention in this thread with abortion are magnified in the minority population in this country. Telling people in minorities not to have sex unless married, telling them that most unmarried sex is bad, that teens are evil and dirty if they have sex is to many minorities looked at as discriminatory or unrealistic because when they look at the world they know and live in what they see as a reality is that 60% to 70% of the people they know were conceived by parents that were not married. They do the math and realized that many of their own mothers had their first child as teenagers. When they see this reality in their lives, then look at the TV and listen to the radio with all of the sexual inuindo that is rampid there (sp?), and then consider the message being presented about sex education; how do you think that affects their self worth and view of the world?