Author Topic: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?  (Read 1892 times)

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Offline voodoo child

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Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« on: January 14, 2012, 09:55:18 PM »
what do theists think of higher brain functions of other mammals?

Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness, love, and empathy?  I know a big one with atheists. Is, do they have complex thoughts? 

Do mammals, animals have fun? 

As an atheist and an observer of life, in this life I would say; yes.  Thoughts?

Whats really cool about this vid, is it looks like this little fellow is poking some holes in this; perhaps peanut butter lid? To accommodate his claws as a primitive sort of snow boarding  bindings.  But just before that, it looks like this crow is
 practising, riding a rail.   :o

The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline Nick

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 10:16:28 PM »
I think they did a study with chimps where they showed those kinds of emotions.
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2012, 11:41:02 PM »


I've been around dogs my whole life. They are very emotional animals.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline kevinagain

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 12:04:55 AM »
I know a big one with atheists. Is, do they have complex thoughts? 

what an interesting question. do atheists have complex thoughts?

i think it depends on the atheist.

sorry

sorry

sorry

Offline Alkan

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 12:21:25 AM »


sorry

sorry

sorry

For what? It's a good response to the question "what do theists think of ...?"

Why is it a good response? It points out a very broad generalization about a group of people.

Some theists think that the world is 6000 years old and hate black people. Some others are successful scientists.

Despite the fact that I disagree with theism, that doesn't mean that I don't disagree with the sweeping generalization.

Offline Illuminatus99

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 09:19:31 AM »
You could probably find every "human" emotion among various animals, some just express those emotions in ways that aren't obvious to us. Some more interesting examples include things like elephants returning on a regular basis to where the bones of family members are.

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2012, 09:24:32 AM »
Interesting that they back up to the bones and caress them with a hind foot.

They also know when to go to the sour berry patch and get drunk once a year.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2012, 09:39:57 AM »
Why wouldn't an animal feel positive emotions?  My cats regularly express enjoyment when I brush them, and they clearly enjoy chasing around a laser dot, despite the fact that they've all figured out that I'm the one actually making the dot move; if the cats lose sight of the dot, they'll watch me instead, and I have one cat who's figured out that I'll usually bring the dot back so she doesn't have to chase it around a corner where she can't see it.  It's only if I go around the corner that this cat follows.

So yes, I agree, most animals have both positive and negative emotions.

Offline hickdive

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2012, 09:48:08 AM »
Anyone who has ever owned a dog or cat knows perfectly well that they have emotions and that isn't anthropomorphism.
Stupidity, unlike intelligence, has no limits.

Offline Babdah

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2012, 10:14:10 AM »
I concur that animals have emotions. You can see it when they get into trouble or when they are being loved on by the owner.
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Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 10:51:51 AM »
Happiness in other animals is not from god, they get happiness,emotions, etc just like we do. I would get more happiness if people were good instead of insane.
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naïve forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget."
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Offline hickdive

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2012, 05:03:49 PM »
Anyone who is unsure as to whether or not animals experience emotions as humans can could attempt this little experiment.

Lock your spouse and your dog in the trunk of your car. Let them out after eight hours and see which one is pleased to see you.
Stupidity, unlike intelligence, has no limits.

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Offline joebbowers

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2012, 03:31:23 AM »
Anyone who is unsure as to whether or not animals experience emotions as humans can could attempt this little experiment.

Lock your spouse and your dog in the trunk of your car. Let them out after eight hours and see which one is pleased to see you.

Fail.

The dog doesn't understand why it was put in there, and he will just be happy to get out. If the dog fully understood your motives, he'd certainly be angry. Saying dogs aren't as intelligent as people does not prove they do not have emotions.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2012, 03:32:18 PM »
if an animal didn't enjoy something, or get some benefit, they simply wouldn't do it.  i've also seen animals, cats mostly, be come utterly despondent if their owner died.  They seem to know enjoyment and loss. 
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Offline hickdive

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2012, 01:47:08 AM »
Anyone who is unsure as to whether or not animals experience emotions as humans can could attempt this little experiment.

Lock your spouse and your dog in the trunk of your car. Let them out after eight hours and see which one is pleased to see you.



Fail.

The dog doesn't understand why it was put in there, and he will just be happy to get out. If the dog fully understood your motives, he'd certainly be angry. Saying dogs aren't as intelligent as people does not prove they do not have emotions.

Fail - This a joke, you need to develop a sense of humour.
Stupidity, unlike intelligence, has no limits.

Offline gonegolfing

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2012, 09:08:47 AM »
Anyone who is unsure as to whether or not animals experience emotions as humans can could attempt this little experiment.

Lock your spouse and your dog in the trunk of your car. Let them out after eight hours and see which one is pleased to see you.

Awesome !  ;D


Quote
Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness, love, and empathy?

Of course ! ...Although our emotions and feelings are more complex due to our different cognative and intellectual abilities, we can without doubt say that animals have feelings and that they are simply differently developed versions, but for the most part for similar reasons, of our own.

We've come a long way baby !  ;)
"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2012, 10:26:51 AM »
I know a big one with atheists. Is, do they have complex thoughts? 

what an interesting question. do atheists have complex thoughts?

i think it depends on the atheist.

sorry

sorry

sorry

Despite your...ahem...humor...you are correct.

Remember atheism is the lack of belief in one or more deities; so braindead people, fetuses, and animals are atheists.
To have the delusion of theism, you need to have sufficient cognitive ability to be deluded.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline voodoo child

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2012, 01:11:01 PM »
Hey guys and dolls haven’t been around to answer why I put this thread up.  It was a small conversation with an in-law about how animals have just about as much empathy as humans do. She disagreed with me of course. Some theists are just thick. Even after I told her about the rats, leaving food to help a fellow rat. I see pingnak dug up a link, thanks.  She laughed and shrugged it off as if I was an idiot.

I have been looking for a new dog for the last month or so, to replace our life long friend Lobo. ( my avatar) My wife missed him terribly. Especially after we had a nut bag wondering around our neighbourhood one night, yelling his head off. It was 2 in the morning and we both had to work at 4:30.. Lobo would have been handy, to shut him up.

So we drove half way across Canada to get a new 10month old 110pound baby boy!. In the worst snow storm of the year. the silly things humans do for their pets.
I would like to introduce you to Kobo. Same breed as Lobo, a Sarloos, only he is bigger and more playful. Knocked me on my ass twice, playing in the snow banks.

that's his poppa behind him he weighs 148lbs!! 



remember going to a hotel as a kid and jumping on the beds?
I think he swiped some of my beer.  :laugh:


The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline velkyn

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2012, 02:36:13 PM »
lovely dog!  I'm guessing he's smarter than your in-law. &)
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2012, 03:26:21 PM »
Do I have to post the video monkey rapes frog?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2012, 03:33:47 PM »
Do I have to post the video monkey rapes frog?

No, I've had enough guilty laughter from it.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline pingnak

Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2012, 06:21:35 PM »
Basically, we can take the stupid half of this argument as far as solipsism:  "Nobody else has emotions but ME!  You can't prove to ME that YOU have emotions, you humanoid meat robot!!!"

We can observe emotions, and model them with our big brains (even most of those that are 'sociopaths' or have certain 'autism spectrum' disorders can learn to), and conclude that emotions are at work, both in our fellow humans, and our fellow animals.  Even animals have been observed to perceive emotions in others.

We can be 100% as certain that animals have emotions as we ever can be that any other human besides ourselves have emotions.

Lizards and birds and whatnot have emotions, too.  Watch birds.  Angry, territorial, etc. little bastards.  Bummed out when they lose their nest, or their mate or their babies.  I've watched with my own eyes a pack of quail escorting a gopher snake away from their young. 

I have watched, again, with my own eyes, a raccoon stand in the middle of the road to stop traffic, for his friends to cross.  Higher order 'thinking' in this example.  One fearlessly stood there on his haunches in the middle of the road, staring at me, and his (maybe her) buddies all crossed when I stopped.  Held his little paws up at me.  Intent.  Planning.  Maybe even communication: 'Wait!'  Those central California Sierra Nevada Raccoons are damned smart, and real problem solvers.  Just ask anyone who has a trash can.  I only wish I had a video camera rolling, at the time.

'Instinct' is 100% driven by emotions.  You run because you're terrified.  A predator hunts because it's hungry.  It chases because of the excitement.  It kills and eats for the pleasure.  It's not an 'empty' needle on a gauge hitting a contact, even for house cats.  They LIKE it.  Capturing and murdering something is pure joy for them.  Same as dogs, though they're usually a bit too strong to prolong the torment.  Hungry, feral cats are more no-nonsense about it, but that's because they want the food more than the entertainment.  If they become well fed (i.e. humans feed them), they don't stop hunting, but they do 'enjoy' the kill more.  Then they try to teach YOU how.  Share in the fun!  I brought you a LIVE mouse (squirrel, lizard, bird, bat, baby opossum, etc.)!  We can have FUN together!

Humans don't hunt because they 'have to'.  They do it because they like doing it, too.

Offline Tero

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2012, 07:32:15 AM »
There must be some evolutionary purpose why reproductive units have feelings. I say they develop with brain size. Insects might not have complex feelings, but must feel some pain.

In any case it is ridiculous to think that hundreds of millions of years go by and then POOF, feelings appear with man.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2012, 08:16:00 AM »
There must be some evolutionary purpose why reproductive units have feelings. I say they develop with brain size. Insects might not have complex feelings, but must feel some pain.

In any case it is ridiculous to think that hundreds of millions of years go by and then POOF, feelings appear with man.
It is hard to completely call just on that basis, after all feelings might be tied to self awareness and sapience.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline pingnak

Re: Do other mammals, animals, feel happiness?
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2012, 04:36:58 PM »
As I said, if you think/believe animals don't have 'feelings', why should you think/believe that other people do?

Training animals is literally fine tuning their 'feelings' to be dependent and wish to please their masters.  Just like training people.  Every way we understand animals slaps a 'feels' and 'experiences' template on top of them.  Empathy.  Social cues.  Act hurt and stop playing when the cat sticks you, and the cat learns not to claw/bite (or at least not as hard).  Animals have/learn basic empathy, too.

How would you FEEL, if someone did these things to you?  (Warning: GRAPHIC)
http://www.google.com/search?q=vivisection&tbm=isch

Why do you 'feel' shock and horror looking at the images?  If these animals don't 'feel', then they're just machines.  Why do you 'feel' differently than seeing a car taken apart?  Empathy. 

Plenty of examples of people who think other ethnic groups don't have 'souls' (nor 'gingers', for that matter).


It's 'funny' because you KNOW people who think like that.  "It's OK to kill the brown skinned people, if they're standin' on top of oil.  I need to drive to Walmart!"

The difference between people and animals is, you can 'reason' a human into ignoring their feelings pretty easily.  It takes a lot of work to get a horse that evolved in grasslands NOT TO fear big, open flames. You can put a fire suit on a human, and he will walk right in among the flames and not worry about them, the very first time.  Flames=Chasing Death?  No: Flames=Environment.

If anything, humans tend to banish and subvert their 'feelings'.  The instincts that tell the monkey part of your brain that hurting and killing other monkeys is 'wrong'?  That seems to be pretty easy to subvert in humans.

People can switch off their own empathy and practice vivisection (see above link).  Dissection of living animals (and historically, PEOPLE) to experiment and see how they 'work'.  They can even be convinced that chopping up LOTS of live animals is of great benefit to science, even though many of them are tortured for cosmetics testing and the like.

What makes us 'different' is we can elect NOT TO feel.  We work hard at it.  We can turn every kind of 'feeling' into just one: emptiness. 

And then we medicate that away.

So convince me that people have 'feelings'.  The evidence shows otherwise.