Author Topic: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...  (Read 3992 times)

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Offline fishjie

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2012, 07:04:48 PM »
The reason Religion changes, evolves, is because it did not come from an All-Knowing Perfect God.

Duh?    It did not come from a perfect god, because religion is man made.   that's pretty obvious.    Man made things evolve.   Kinda my whole point.     Reading comprehension bro.    A good book on this is the History of God, by Karen Armstrong.   She traces the different religions over the centuries and how their concept of god/gods has changed.    very fascinating stuff.
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so if people are trying to change it up, then thank god.   

Why thank God for what people do?  People are doing it, not God. Besides, as the Bible says, the reason people would want to change religion to something that will appeal to the masses, is out of rebellion. It is man's nature to rebel. Remember, you rejected Perfection the moment you chose to be born. You're forever tainted with sin and deserve to burn in hell forever and ever for what you had done. God's Perfection is as revolting to us, as we sinners are to him. He cannot stand our presence because of our sin, and if we were in his presence, his perfection would kill us. People don't want to be perfect, they don't even want to try... they just clamor about "grace" and be done with it, ignoring the whole required repentance aspect.

Again ... duh people are doing it?   the pun went right over your head.    note that i do not capitalize "g" but for some odd reason you do.    Hell is becoming distasteful to most christians today, so I predict in a few decades the fire/brimstone bit will go away.    Already, today christians preach of a "separation from god", not so much of an eternal torment.   not really sure what your whole spiel about perfection, repentance and burning in hell forever have to do with anything.     i'm not tainted with sin because sin does not exist, lol.  its just an idea. ditto hell. it evolved out of judaism as a strong mechanic to enforce believers and guilt them into staying in the church. very clever.

Bottom line, I like mars hill church and the direction they are taking the religion.     would i ever attend it?   nah.     but its a good new look.     there needs to be an islam version, and then the world can slowly become a better place.     again, religion will never go away.    the right goal here is not to get rid of it, because it serves a fundamental human need, but rather to evolve it to something better.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 07:06:38 PM by fishjie »

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2012, 09:37:50 PM »
Ah, I see. I thought you were a believer and I was talking to you as if you were.

Offline eartheconomyspirit

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2012, 11:44:54 PM »

I'm picturing this punk for jesus having the guts to stand face to face with a muslim jihadist in Afghanistan and doing his little ditty for him.....Me thinks that the muslim would take umbrage.. No ?  ;)

I can only feel pity for a young man like this who debases himself so thoroughly for the world to see....... "now that I know jesus I boast in my weakness" . Only a deeply disturbed person shows pride in and gains self satisfaction out of their faults and failures in life, and who does so in the belief that the scapegoating action of another innocent individual has exonerated them from the responsibilities and consequences of those faults and actions.

Or he feels comfortable in being honest about his frailties and mistakes. Something that usually takes courage and conviction. your assessment is inaccurate and based on your bias, perhaps :-) 

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2012, 08:42:37 AM »

I'm picturing this punk for jesus having the guts to stand face to face with a muslim jihadist in Afghanistan and doing his little ditty for him.....Me thinks that the muslim would take umbrage.. No ?  ;)

I can only feel pity for a young man like this who debases himself so thoroughly for the world to see....... "now that I know jesus I boast in my weakness" . Only a deeply disturbed person shows pride in and gains self satisfaction out of their faults and failures in life, and who does so in the belief that the scapegoating action of another innocent individual has exonerated them from the responsibilities and consequences of those faults and actions.

Or he feels comfortable in being honest about his frailties and mistakes. Something that usually takes courage and conviction. your assessment is inaccurate and based on your bias, perhaps :-)

Remember the atheist bias is the null bias.  If you remove the cultural gravitas the making it "Jesus" gives the statement, if you view it from the lense of how you might view an islander claiming that some anscestor, King Agga, sacrificed himself to the volcano God, Ugabuga, anyone could come to the same conclusion.

Remember he is finding satisfaction, "boasting" in his weakness...not just unstanding he has a fault to overcome. It disturbs me every bit as much as how much Stalin boasted of being "An ignorant peasant" showing his contempt for his intellectual betters.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline gonegolfing

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2012, 09:45:05 AM »

I'm picturing this punk for jesus having the guts to stand face to face with a muslim jihadist in Afghanistan and doing his little ditty for him.....Me thinks that the muslim would take umbrage.. No ?  ;)

I can only feel pity for a young man like this who debases himself so thoroughly for the world to see....... "now that I know jesus I boast in my weakness" . Only a deeply disturbed person shows pride in and gains self satisfaction out of their faults and failures in life, and who does so in the belief that the scapegoating action of another innocent individual has exonerated them from the responsibilities and consequences of those faults and actions.

Or he feels comfortable in being honest about his frailties and mistakes. Something that usually takes courage and conviction. your assessment is inaccurate and based on your bias, perhaps :-)


Honesty is a wonderful thing. Correcting frailties if possible and taking responsibility for mistakes is a wonderful thing....... Finding comfort and satisfaction however in boasting about ones weakness is not. It's mentally unhealthy and shows a perversion of thinking. Running around the earth preaching with excessive pride that he is weak--but that doesn't matter because his pitiful state is now on the shoulders of a ancient scapegoat--is cowardly and of course in this case, and more disturbingly, delusional.

He can proclaim that the buck has been passed all he wants, but this is a real world that we live in, and his claims have in the first place no valid basis of truth, and in the second, have indeed not exonerated him of his moral responsibilities to his corporeal reality and existence that he has now.

Furthermore, it's absolutely shameful that a young man like this would belittle his existence in this way, and as much as say that this life doesn't matter as it's a total failure and that the next "supposed" life is what really counts and where all things are made right. This is the epitome of childish, fearful, wishful thinking, and above all else, a bizarre display of an addiction to primitive reasoning.

His bold declaration that religion has failed humanity,  and that it is in fact a weak entity that makes a mockery of true faith and relationship with the "christian" god, shows this young man to be biased and bigoted in the truest sense, and to have a complete lack of understanding of what religion truly is and what its intentions are.

Religion was never meant to be the champion of humanity---only its oppressor. Religion has not failed us, it has been a huge success and unfortunately has accomplished its goals quite nicely.

As a former theist, I have no unnecessary bias. Only the facts from experience. The young man is a mistaken fraud---Just like I was. A confession that is embarrassing and that I take no pride in  ;)
"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline fishjie

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2012, 03:03:32 PM »
As a former theist, I have no unnecessary bias. Only the facts from experience. The young man is a mistaken fraud---Just like I was. A confession that is embarrassing and that I take no pride in  ;)

Why say you were a fraud?    I was a former believer too.   Roughly 14 years I think.    But I was not a fraud, I genuinely believed (or at least tried to).    And when I realized that it was all made up, then I stopped believing.    At every point, I tried to live by my beliefs and convictions.     There was no dishonesty.     Also why embarrassment?   I try not to live life filled with regret about the past.     The church was a pretty positive influence on my life.   As a shy person, forcing myself to go on a mission trip, talk in front of the congregation about it, and contribute to weekly bible study groups really helped me overcome social anxiety and develop leadership skills.    I am not embarrassed at all to admit that I miss that part of religion.      Its like a huge social club.   

Now on the video itself.    I found it to be a good piece of marketing.    So are the "I'm a mormon" commericals.      The amazing atheist response came off as too sarcastic, angry and bitter.      Hilarious video and brilliant response, but not a good piece of marketing.     Makes atheists look bad.     If his goal is to deconvert people, its not really going to work.     Its just going to piss them off.   Ditto Dawkins.   No believer would ever finish Dawkins book because they'd be offended by the title itself.     Sure, atheists will read it, but that's kind of redundant.   An atheist doesn't need to watch a rebuttal, because they already do not buy into that crap.   In other words, atheists from the marketing department need to come out with their own better viral video.

Offline pingnak

Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2012, 06:54:01 PM »
So, better marketing.

Perhaps a nice video game that makes fun of religious people.  Have the big, bad, pompous, religious boss run out of ammo, then pray for more ammo while you (the protagonist) pick up all of his spent arrows to shoot back at him. 

Or a civilization sim where you can invest in science and build infrastructure to transport and store water... or just pray for rain. 

Lots of examples of DEAD civilizations that did the latter.

Of course, games like 'Skyrim' that depict gods and their altars (and lots of them) as very functional also beg questions about one 'almighty god' that doesn't do anything for anyone, I mean besides Tebow.  Oh wait, they lost. 

You show up, use an altar, bang, all diseases are CURED, and some sorta FUNCTIONAL bonus blessing added.  Of course, you trade up these gods and demons like nothing throughout the game.  They're mostly quite eager to please and have you as their champion, using their own branded armor or weapon.

Offline Tero

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2012, 07:57:01 PM »
The video was not half bad. The video responses were good too, my son pointed out.

Offline pingnak

Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2012, 08:51:37 PM »
Very good production value, true.  At least two cameras, excellent editing, sound, music, post-production effects, etc. 

Several takes, all cut together cleanly. 

At 1:10, just look at that video camera.  And they probably used two identical models of these cameras. 

That's not what some kid can afford on his own.  Someone rented or loaned that equipment for this production.  Probably a director, screening and re-screening the shots, to make sure the takes will cut together smoothly. 

So 'poet', two camera operators (minimum), director, back-end video editing.  Probably a studio session to lipsync of the poem (ala 'music video'), since there is no ambient noise in the video its self.

The camera-in-motion shots are SMOOTH.  Really good anti-jitter.  If not on a rig.  That down-swooping shot would be pretty hard to pull off with the camera held up over your head, walking sideways.  A crane would do that way easier.

Yeah, some kid & his friends just knocked this out?  No, they got LOTS of help and SOMEONE put CONSIDERABLE time, money and effort into it.

If you think the video will only be seen '1000 times', like this kid claims in the interviews, you shoot with whatever portable digital camera, in a couple of takes, probably with the built-in microphone.  We'd hear wind, birds, aircraft, traffic, etc. from the surrounding environment.  They show glimpses of the equipment to make it look less 'staged', but the equipment shots are definitely deliberately there, and present/absent, showing multiple, deliberate takes of the action being staged.  An amateur would say, 'Crap! I see the reflector!  Do another take!'  Someone who put the equipment in on purpose would do extra takes to make sure they're framed right.


Offline fishjie

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2012, 09:06:15 PM »
I was thinking something like Carl Sagan's videos.   A good one would be a Pale Blue Dot.      It doesn't directly attack religion at all.   But it just puts everything into perspective.      As a believer, one of the things that gnawed at me in the back of my head was just the gigantic size of the universe.   It really just seemed silly that if we were the key part of God's Ultimate plan, that there's a lot of wasted space?   



Or something such as Symphony of Science videos.     Basically, show the wonders of the universe, and how beautiful they are, and how you don't need religion to derive that kind of wonder, amazement, and awe.     



In other words, promote science.   You don't really need to sarcastically attack religion.     Believers will get defensive and stop listening.   But if you just promote critical reasoning skills, I think the rest will fall in place.   I mean sure, mocking/trolling fundies is hilariously funny, and I do it all the time, but I know that its not going to get them to see that earth is more than 8000 years old.

Another idea I was thinking was simply an educational series teaching about the various world religions, and their histories, similarities, and differences.      Something such as studying religion actually shakes up a lot of people's faiths.    My pastor told me how he almost became an atheist as a result (perhaps he was a closet one), and it definitely shook me up to learn about the history of christianity (because it forces you to acknowledge that it is man made and there are political/social forces motivating the various authors).

Offline jetson

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2012, 09:16:03 PM »
Damn, what a piece of utter crap that was.  I avoided watching it because I suspected I would be disappointed.  I was right.

It's just another way of saying he has some truth, and he has it right.  So he calls out all of the fakers in the world of religion, and claims his way as the way.  Bullshit, Jesus loving propaganda, on a very disgusting level, in my opinion.


Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2012, 08:24:20 AM »
In other words, promote science.   You don't really need to sarcastically attack religion.     Believers will get defensive and stop listening.   But if you just promote critical reasoning skills, I think the rest will fall in place.   I mean sure, mocking/trolling fundies is hilariously funny, and I do it all the time, but I know that its not going to get them to see that earth is more than 8000 years old.

I disagree, both prongs are needed. What you say, promote the truth, is only one.

However one of things that allow religion to persist is its pedastool, as being above criticism....when just everything about it is ludicrous. Mocking it will say very few believers, that is true. But showing that it is all smoke and lirrors and lies will break the illusion for people who are only believers because the've never thought about it.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline gonegolfing

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2012, 09:43:55 AM »
As a former theist, I have no unnecessary bias. Only the facts from experience. The young man is a mistaken fraud---Just like I was. A confession that is embarrassing and that I take no pride in  ;)

Why say you were a fraud?    I was a former believer too.   Roughly 14 years I think.    But I was not a fraud, I genuinely believed (or at least tried to).    And when I realized that it was all made up, then I stopped believing.    At every point, I tried to live by my beliefs and convictions.     There was no dishonesty.     Also why embarrassment?   I try not to live life filled with regret about the past.     The church was a pretty positive influence on my life.   As a shy person, forcing myself to go on a mission trip, talk in front of the congregation about it, and contribute to weekly bible study groups really helped me overcome social anxiety and develop leadership skills.    I am not embarrassed at all to admit that I miss that part of religion.      Its like a huge social club.   

Now on the video itself.    I found it to be a good piece of marketing.    So are the "I'm a mormon" commericals.      The amazing atheist response came off as too sarcastic, angry and bitter.      Hilarious video and brilliant response, but not a good piece of marketing.     Makes atheists look bad.     If his goal is to deconvert people, its not really going to work.     Its just going to piss them off.   Ditto Dawkins.   No believer would ever finish Dawkins book because they'd be offended by the title itself.     Sure, atheists will read it, but that's kind of redundant.   An atheist doesn't need to watch a rebuttal, because they already do not buy into that crap.   In other words, atheists from the marketing department need to come out with their own better viral video.

A mistaken fraud if you would have read carefully. Theists are mistaken in their beliefs and have been told so. So if you have been informed that you are promoting something that is demonstrably false, and all theists have been informed, then you are in fact a fraud and you know it. To deny this fact is also to not take it away. However as we all know, denial is common in the theist movement. Just because you lived that life with conviction and thought your feelings and beliefs were genuine, does not give you license to adamantly deny that your beliefs are false in the face of facts that tell you otherwise. You've told us that you promoted these beliefs to others and so whether you like it or not, or believe it or not, you were a fraud.

You can choose if you want to give credit to your past credulity if you want, but I have no choice but to be embarrassed by mine. Credulity is a shameful weakness as well and your boasting in it--just like the young man in the clip. You should be ashamed of yourself.

All of the improvements in your life that you say religion helped you achieve, were fully available to you as well without the backing of a false belief system. According to you, it looks like all of your improvements were ones to simply spread and boast about the lie. Again, you should be embarrassed by that.

It's not "like" a big social club, it is a big deluded social club. Why don't you go back to it if you miss it so much ?  ;)

It doesn't matter at all if the marketing is considered good or the quality and professionalism was of a good standard. What matters is the message. The message is false. The message is mentally harmful. The message is full of irrational primitive reasoning. That message needs to die.

Your dissing of the AA video is to be expected from an unbeliever like you. Whatever. I watched the video and although he is correct on many things, yes, he could have done better. I only found it mildly insightful and just barely worth the watch as far as quality goes. His message however is at the very least true. Unlike the clip message that you think is so marketable.

Cheers 

 
"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline fishjie

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2012, 06:35:34 PM »
As a former theist, I have no unnecessary bias. Only the facts from experience. The young man is a mistaken fraud---Just like I was. A confession that is embarrassing and that I take no pride in  ;)

Why say you were a fraud?    I was a former believer too.   Roughly 14 years I think.    But I was not a fraud, I genuinely believed (or at least tried to).    And when I realized that it was all made up, then I stopped believing.    At every point, I tried to live by my beliefs and convictions.     There was no dishonesty.     Also why embarrassment?   I try not to live life filled with regret about the past.     The church was a pretty positive influence on my life.   As a shy person, forcing myself to go on a mission trip, talk in front of the congregation about it, and contribute to weekly bible study groups really helped me overcome social anxiety and develop leadership skills.    I am not embarrassed at all to admit that I miss that part of religion.      Its like a huge social club.   

Now on the video itself.    I found it to be a good piece of marketing.    So are the "I'm a mormon" commericals.      The amazing atheist response came off as too sarcastic, angry and bitter.      Hilarious video and brilliant response, but not a good piece of marketing.     Makes atheists look bad.     If his goal is to deconvert people, its not really going to work.     Its just going to piss them off.   Ditto Dawkins.   No believer would ever finish Dawkins book because they'd be offended by the title itself.     Sure, atheists will read it, but that's kind of redundant.   An atheist doesn't need to watch a rebuttal, because they already do not buy into that crap.   In other words, atheists from the marketing department need to come out with their own better viral video.

A mistaken fraud if you would have read carefully. Theists are mistaken in their beliefs and have been told so. So if you have been informed that you are promoting something that is demonstrably false, and all theists have been informed, then you are in fact a fraud and you know it. To deny this fact is also to not take it away. However as we all know, denial is common in the theist movement. Just because you lived that life with conviction and thought your feelings and beliefs were genuine, does not give you license to adamantly deny that your beliefs are false in the face of facts that tell you otherwise. You've told us that you promoted these beliefs to others and so whether you like it or not, or believe it or not, you were a fraud.

You can choose if you want to give credit to your past credulity if you want, but I have no choice but to be embarrassed by mine. Credulity is a shameful weakness as well and your boasting in it--just like the young man in the clip. You should be ashamed of yourself.

All of the improvements in your life that you say religion helped you achieve, were fully available to you as well without the backing of a false belief system. According to you, it looks like all of your improvements were ones to simply spread and boast about the lie. Again, you should be embarrassed by that.

It's not "like" a big social club, it is a big deluded social club. Why don't you go back to it if you miss it so much ?  ;)

It doesn't matter at all if the marketing is considered good or the quality and professionalism was of a good standard. What matters is the message. The message is false. The message is mentally harmful. The message is full of irrational primitive reasoning. That message needs to die.

Your dissing of the AA video is to be expected from an unbeliever like you. Whatever. I watched the video and although he is correct on many things, yes, he could have done better. I only found it mildly insightful and just barely worth the watch as far as quality goes. His message however is at the very least true. Unlike the clip message that you think is so marketable.

Cheers 

 

Arguing that all the benefits that I derived from religion could have easily been attained other ways is a non statement.   That's true of basically anything.     I can argue that playing video games helped me develop hand eye coordination and self confidence, or that drugs helped me achieve enlightenment, and others can argue the opposite.     I'm just saying that I can see the good that religion does in the world.     Not all religions are created equal.   Some religions have evolved to become more warlike and primitive (Islam), whereas others like Buddhism are more naturally peaceful.   Christianity falls somewhere in the middle, with groups such as the Quakers being pretty chill people.    I don't really see things as so black and white.    Life is too short to be embarrassed about choices made in the past.     There is no afterlife, as you very well know.   So instead of flagellating yourself for it (which is something a christian would do), just move on.

As for why I don't go back, actually I have been searching for a replacement, and do toy with the idea of going back to some form of church again.   Obviously its all made up, so I don't know that I can.    But I do miss that sense of community.   "Its like a big social club" vs "it is a big social club", that's semantics.    Not really going to argue it, because we agree on the same point.   That is the service which religion provides.    I suspect most people in church only belong there for that very reason.   If you question any christian closely, they will more or less admit the logical holes in their belief system.     But they don't want to give it up because its comforting to believe that there is someone up in heaven looking out there for them.    I don't know that's its such a good idea to get rid of it.    You might argue its a delusion.   Well, I'd argue that optimism is a delusion (to be fair, so is pessimism).    But there are lots of people out there with positive attitudes, and it keeps them happy.    Not all delusions are bad.    Its only bad when they force their delusions upon others at knifepoint.   

TLDR:    Religion is based on false premise, but doesn't necessarily mean its all bad.    I was a militant atheist for a brief period after deconversion, but I just realized I just went to the other extreme form of conviction.    Nothing in life is black and white.   I'm happy with people living with delusions if it grants them happiness and purpose in life, so as long as they do not trample upon my happiness and purpose.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2012, 09:20:25 PM »
You guys blow my mind.  As if being a Christian (from your perception or our beliefs) is better?  How?  We all suffer from the same current world events, if indeed we do suffer (some more than others)?  It doesn't matter!  The rain falls on you with the same intensity it falls on us.

And where does science and the Bible diverge?  It's your side that is making science a religion, or at least putting science at odds with the Bible, not us. 

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline pingnak

Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2012, 09:23:46 PM »
No, seeking TRUTH in all ways could be viewed through the right funhouse mirror as 'religion'.

But cuddling up with ONE good book of fairy tales and forever proclaiming it as ALL KNOWLEDGE is just stupid.

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2012, 09:28:00 PM »
No, seeking TRUTH in all ways could be viewed through the right funhouse mirror as 'religion'.

But cuddling up with ONE good book of fairy tales and forever proclaiming it as ALL KNOWLEDGE is just stupid.

So you know what truth is?  Or at least what seeking it is?  What do you "cuddle" up with?

Please enlighten me. 
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2012, 09:38:07 PM »
^^^ Seeking the truth is called "The Scientific Method"  But you will never be enlightened if you don't seek the truth in life. ;)
Hguols: "Its easier for me to believe that a God created everything...."

Offline jtp56

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2012, 09:44:56 PM »
^^^ Seeking the truth is called "The Scientific Method"  But you will never be enlightened if you don't seek the truth in life. ;)

Come on!

The "Scientific Method" has shown us that millions (some or your guys claim billions) of all observed mutations are deleterious!

The "Scientific Method" has not proven dark energy or dark matter, which, your guys admit, but still cling to!

You guys claim to have the "Scientific Method" as your god.

Tell me DVZ3, what is the "Scientific Method"?  What is it?
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2012, 10:06:36 PM »
Question for you "Scientific Method" or scientific geniuses out there.  Assuming most scientists agree (even though not all evolutionists do, but for the sake of argument), that the "Unitarian Naturalism" model was accepted as the "Most scientist believe" model, why, after billions of years, are there so few fossils?
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2012, 10:19:53 PM »
Bottom Line, pingnak, DVZ3, hatter, etc.  what do you hang your humanity on?  What most scientists believe?  Is 1+1=2 true?  What is truth? 

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Is truth accuracy of knowledge?  1+1=2?  (See earlier threads by me where your guys argue 1+1=2 is not necessarily true)

What is truth?  Especially if 1+1 may not equal 2? What is truth?
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2012, 10:48:20 PM »
Question for you "Scientific Method" or scientific geniuses out there.  Assuming most scientists agree (even though not all evolutionists do, but for the sake of argument), that the "Unitarian Naturalism" model was accepted as the "Most scientist believe" model, why, after billions of years, are there so few fossils?

*sigh*  Did you think to read anything about fossilization before you asked this question?

Quote
Fossilization is an exceptionally rare occurrence, because most components of formerly living things tend to decompose relatively quickly following death. In order for an organism to be fossilized, the remains normally need to be covered by sediment as soon as possible. However there are exceptions to this, such as if an organism becomes frozen, desiccated, or comes to rest in an anoxic (oxygen-free) environment. There are several different types of fossils and fossilization processes....

Some casual observers have been perplexed by the rarity of transitional species within the fossil record. The conventional explanation for this rarity was given by Darwin, who stated that "the extreme imperfection of the geological record," combined with the short duration and narrow geographical range of transitional species, made it unlikely that many such fossils would be found. Simply put, the conditions under which fossilization takes place are quite rare; and it is highly unlikely that any given organism will leave behind a fossil.

{Bold mine}

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossilization#Rarity_of_fossils
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2012, 11:17:17 PM »
It's been explained to him.  He has an aversion to learning.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2012, 11:21:40 PM »
Have they found dinosaur droppings fossilized?  How long does it take to make a fossil?
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2012, 11:24:46 PM »


And where does science and the Bible diverge?  It's your side that is making science a religion, or at least putting science at odds with the Bible, not us.

Yeah, just Ask Hypatia, or Galileo, or those that teach evolution. Yeah.

Or is it so basic you are not getting it: Science is at odds with the Bible because it uses a method to make sure it is right, as opposed to having anyone who doesn't agree with it a heretic.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2012, 11:28:17 PM »
pianodwarf
"Simply put, the conditions under which fossilization takes place are quite rare; and it is highly unlikely that any given organism will leave behind a fossil."

You put this in bold!  So I take it that what ever fossils you need to prove evolution did leave behind a fossil? 
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2012, 11:28:55 PM »
Bottom Line, pingnak, DVZ3, hatter, etc.  what do you hang your humanity on?  What most scientists believe?  Is 1+1=2 true?  What is truth? 



Since you follow a book that's not consistent internally, nor with observable reality, nor with logic, nor historical record, nor with archeological record, you don't particularly give a hoot about truth.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline pingnak

Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2012, 11:30:52 PM »
1+1=102, if you are using binary (base 2).

1+1=2 for any higher numbering systems than binary.  It is conventional that without the subscript, it is assumed to be decimal on Earth.  You can use different symbols, but the mathematical operations of addition of things means that the 'equivalent' symbols will produce 'equivalent' results.  Unless you have some alien form of arithmetic operation that you call 'addition', and I can't really help you with the kind of retarded bullshit you learn in buybull skool.

Unless you want to use a different numbering system, like Roman.  Then I+I=II, but II+II=IV.  Kind of lame for doing numerical operations, but churchy retards love the ancient systems that every learned person abandoned long ago for many VERY good reasons.

The term 'true' is a Boolean data type.  The operation, '1+1=2' is not 'true', unless in a computational sense, the result being non-zero is considered 'true'.  So, with a casting operator, 'Boolean(1+1) == true' is correct, in certain circumstances.

BTW, MATH is not reality.  It is something we use to MODEL reality.  Uneducated religious morons get these concepts confused, because they never cracked open any book without cross or crescent or whatever other 'holy' symbol on the cover, and they believe that their ONE ancient book of fairy tales IS 'reality'.  Which is just pathetic.

Note: A pathetic, ignorant Jesus 'tard or a pathetic, ignorant Allah 'tard is just a 'tard, to me.  I'm an equal opportunity loather of ignorant fucktards.

I base my 'humanity' on PEOPLE.  Not imaginary sky ogres in charge of chucking PEOPLE into heavens or hells or other such bins based on their stated belief systems.

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Re: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus...
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2012, 11:32:24 PM »


And where does science and the Bible diverge?  It's your side that is making science a religion, or at least putting science at odds with the Bible, not us.

Yeah, just Ask Hypatia, or Galileo, or those that teach evolution. Yeah.

Or is it so basic you are not getting it: Science is at odds with the Bible because it uses a method to make sure it is right, as opposed to having anyone who doesn't agree with it a heretic.

Hatter come on!  Galileo was a believer to death!

Science makes sure it is right (usually) for current day applications which I don't agree with, but, for explaining the origins of the universe or mankind????   Your side has it all wrong.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.